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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com> on 2012/10/07 17:52:20 UTC
Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Hi there,
because, it is probably easier for us to have something on the table, rather
then just to talk about it, I have created a small prototype with Flash Catalyst
CS5.5 and Flash Builder 4.6. This proposed Design Tool [1] - codenamed
Thermo MK2 - should be seen as a hybrid of Flash Catalyst CS5.5, the
"Design View" of Flash Builder 4.6 and the Eclipse IDE.
Things you can do with Thermo MK2 so far:
- Switching Perspectives (see top-right)
- Switching between Source- and Design-Mode (see text editor in the middle)
Things that Thermo MK2 should do:
- Thermo MK2 should detect [SkinParts] and [SkinStates] of SkinnableComponents.
- Thermo MK2 should be able to draw graphics in a FXG 2.0 [2] compliant way.
- Thermo MK2 should be able to import FXG files, Photoshop and Illustrator files.
- Thermo MK2 should be able to communicate via a certain API with Flash Builder 4.7 or other IDEs.
- Thermo MK2 should be able to visually manage and edit CSS files.
- Thermo MK2 should be able to visually link SkinnableComponents with their Skins inside CSS.
- Thermo MK2 should be clever about screen sizes (compare with Adobe Edge Reflow [2]).
The Data-Centric features are not necessarily needed
because other IDEs would be more appropriate for that.
That being said: These are the questions I have:
- Who could finance Thermo MK2?
- How many people are needed to build Thermo MK2?
- Which expertise is required to build Thermo MK2?
- When could Thermo MK2 be released (and sold) in its first version?
Hopefully, this leads the discussion into
something more concrete then it was before.
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ThermoMK2
[2] http://sourceforge.net/adobe/flexsdk/wiki/FXG%202.0%20Specification/
[3] http://html.adobe.com/edge/reflow/
Re: Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
> On 10/7/2012 12:38 PM, Omar Gonzalez wrote:
>
>>
>> Your post makes it sound like you're looking for a commercial venture. I
>> don't believe Apache, in its OPEN SOURCE nature, is the right place to
>> look
>> to develop commercial products.
>>
>
> I'm not sure I completely agree. The Apache license is very liberal. As
> I understand it, there are plenty of thriving companies in the open source
> development space. They have to offer value beyond "code" or "Compiled
> code" though.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
>
Well, while the Apache license might be extremely liberal, I don't imagine
this is the right place to organize, fund and run a commercial company.
This is an open source software foundation, not Kickstarter.
-omar
Re: Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 10/7/2012 12:38 PM, Omar Gonzalez wrote:
>
> Your post makes it sound like you're looking for a commercial venture. I
> don't believe Apache, in its OPEN SOURCE nature, is the right place to look
> to develop commercial products.
I'm not sure I completely agree. The Apache license is very liberal.
As I understand it, there are plenty of thriving companies in the open
source development space. They have to offer value beyond "code" or
"Compiled code" though.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sunday, October 7, 2012, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> because, it is probably easier for us to have something on the table,
> rather
> then just to talk about it, I have created a small prototype with Flash
> Catalyst
> CS5.5 and Flash Builder 4.6. This proposed Design Tool [1] - codenamed
> Thermo MK2 - should be seen as a hybrid of Flash Catalyst CS5.5, the
> "Design View" of Flash Builder 4.6 and the Eclipse IDE.
>
> Things you can do with Thermo MK2 so far:
> - Switching Perspectives (see top-right)
> - Switching between Source- and Design-Mode (see text editor in the middle)
>
> Things that Thermo MK2 should do:
> - Thermo MK2 should detect [SkinParts] and [SkinStates] of
> SkinnableComponents.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to draw graphics in a FXG 2.0 [2] compliant
> way.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to import FXG files, Photoshop and Illustrator
> files.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to communicate via a certain API with Flash
> Builder 4.7 or other IDEs.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to visually manage and edit CSS files.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to visually link SkinnableComponents with
> their Skins inside CSS.
> - Thermo MK2 should be clever about screen sizes (compare with Adobe Edge
> Reflow [2]).
>
> The Data-Centric features are not necessarily needed
> because other IDEs would be more appropriate for that.
>
> That being said: These are the questions I have:
> - Who could finance Thermo MK2?
> - How many people are needed to build Thermo MK2?
> - Which expertise is required to build Thermo MK2?
> - When could Thermo MK2 be released (and sold) in its first version?
>
> Hopefully, this leads the discussion into
> something more concrete then it was before.
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ThermoMK2
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/adobe/flexsdk/wiki/FXG%202.0%20Specification/
> [3] http://html.adobe.com/edge/reflow/
>
>
>
Your post makes it sound like you're looking for a commercial venture. I
don't believe Apache, in its OPEN SOURCE nature, is the right place to look
to develop commercial products.
Just my wild guess... ;)
Omar Gonzalez
s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC
Re: Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Posted by Yvon Sauvageau <ys...@yahoo.com>.
It seems you view yourself as an interaction designer, so I can see
where you're coming from. As a developer (coder), I find these design
views to be a flawed concept the minute I exit the realm of trivial
applications. Why? Because in serious applications most of the
displayed objects are generated dynamically. There's no way a design
view can predict what and where they will be displayed. Imagine for
an instant that everything is localized (internationalized) in your
application. Well, then everything is generated on the fly from the
contents of some text files. I can tell you that in the latest
application I worked on, the design view was so confused that it
generated a total mess, and only the background graphics was
recognizable.
Of course, I need to present mock ups before coding. I simply use
Balsamiq Mockup. It's good enough to communicate the general ideas.
What do I use to polish the look? Well, too bad, nowadays I really
have to use the design view. But it generates a mess in the presence
of a full fledge application. So what I do is I create small
independent FB projects wherein I replicate small parts of the
application and hardcode everything in them. And I use design view to
tweak this stuff. I say that it's what I'm doing 'nowadays', but in
the olden days we had something much better. It was called
Flex3StyleExplorer http://examples.adobe.com/flex3/consulting/
styleexplorer/Flex3StyleExplorer.html#. If you could replicate
something like that, I would be very thankful to you. I suppose
nowadays it should be called FlexSkinExplorer.
Yvon
On Oct 7, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> because, it is probably easier for us to have something on the
> table, rather
> then just to talk about it, I have created a small prototype with
> Flash Catalyst
> CS5.5 and Flash Builder 4.6. This proposed Design Tool [1] - codenamed
> Thermo MK2 - should be seen as a hybrid of Flash Catalyst CS5.5, the
> "Design View" of Flash Builder 4.6 and the Eclipse IDE.
>
> Things you can do with Thermo MK2 so far:
> - Switching Perspectives (see top-right)
> - Switching between Source- and Design-Mode (see text editor in the
> middle)
>
> Things that Thermo MK2 should do:
> - Thermo MK2 should detect [SkinParts] and [SkinStates] of
> SkinnableComponents.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to draw graphics in a FXG 2.0 [2]
> compliant way.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to import FXG files, Photoshop and
> Illustrator files.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to communicate via a certain API with
> Flash Builder 4.7 or other IDEs.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to visually manage and edit CSS files.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to visually link SkinnableComponents
> with their Skins inside CSS.
> - Thermo MK2 should be clever about screen sizes (compare with
> Adobe Edge Reflow [2]).
>
> The Data-Centric features are not necessarily needed
> because other IDEs would be more appropriate for that.
>
> That being said: These are the questions I have:
> - Who could finance Thermo MK2?
> - How many people are needed to build Thermo MK2?
> - Which expertise is required to build Thermo MK2?
> - When could Thermo MK2 be released (and sold) in its first version?
>
> Hopefully, this leads the discussion into
> something more concrete then it was before.
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ThermoMK2
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/adobe/flexsdk/wiki/FXG%202.0%
> 20Specification/
> [3] http://html.adobe.com/edge/reflow/
>
>
Re: Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:37 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
> Is your thought to have the design view really be within a web browser?
No ... it should be an AIR app (I refer to this mail thread:
Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)).
For simplicity reasons - which means, it's simpler for
you to look at it - I just created an Web app.
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
Re: Design Tool Proposal: Thermo MK2 for Apache Flex
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Is your thought to have the design view really be within a web browser? I
feel like more time would be spent re-creating the functions of a normal
IDE, versus working on the intricacies of the DV itself.
As far as your other questions :
- I don't think there are any finances available to create it. Just our
time and labor.
- As far as the other three questions -- I believe it is completely up to
the people who sign up to help. Unless you are talking about building a
company around it -- and if you are, I would do a close market study
first... There were not enough people who screamed when Adobe said they
were getting rid of the DV for them to support it -- I doubt there will be
enough people willing to PAY for it to support a company that makes it from
scratch.
-Nick
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> because, it is probably easier for us to have something on the table,
> rather
> then just to talk about it, I have created a small prototype with Flash
> Catalyst
> CS5.5 and Flash Builder 4.6. This proposed Design Tool [1] - codenamed
> Thermo MK2 - should be seen as a hybrid of Flash Catalyst CS5.5, the
> "Design View" of Flash Builder 4.6 and the Eclipse IDE.
>
> Things you can do with Thermo MK2 so far:
> - Switching Perspectives (see top-right)
> - Switching between Source- and Design-Mode (see text editor in the middle)
>
> Things that Thermo MK2 should do:
> - Thermo MK2 should detect [SkinParts] and [SkinStates] of
> SkinnableComponents.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to draw graphics in a FXG 2.0 [2] compliant
> way.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to import FXG files, Photoshop and Illustrator
> files.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to communicate via a certain API with Flash
> Builder 4.7 or other IDEs.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to visually manage and edit CSS files.
> - Thermo MK2 should be able to visually link SkinnableComponents with
> their Skins inside CSS.
> - Thermo MK2 should be clever about screen sizes (compare with Adobe Edge
> Reflow [2]).
>
> The Data-Centric features are not necessarily needed
> because other IDEs would be more appropriate for that.
>
> That being said: These are the questions I have:
> - Who could finance Thermo MK2?
> - How many people are needed to build Thermo MK2?
> - Which expertise is required to build Thermo MK2?
> - When could Thermo MK2 be released (and sold) in its first version?
>
> Hopefully, this leads the discussion into
> something more concrete then it was before.
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ThermoMK2
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/adobe/flexsdk/wiki/FXG%202.0%20Specification/
> [3] http://html.adobe.com/edge/reflow/
>
>
>