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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Sailaja Mada <sa...@citrix.com> on 2012/10/23 08:14:53 UTC

[Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range 

Hi,

This is regarding the enhancement : Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range @ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-372

Enhancement Details :

1. Currently Hosts has to be added manually into the cloud to get provisioned.
2. This is the request to support for Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

References for this enhancement :

1. https://supportcontent.ca.com/cadocs/0/CA%20ARCserve%20Unified%20Data%20Protection%20Enterprise%20Support%2016%200-ENU/Bookshelf_Files/HTML/hbug/index.htm?toc.htm?ua_hb_auto_disc_hosts.htm

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxcHtiwZNU

3. http://support.hyperic.com/display/hyperforge/Hyperic+Custom+Auto-Discovery+Plug-ins


I have started the discussion mail thread as suggested by David Nalley.

Thanks and Regards,
Sailaja.M

RE: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com>.
Few weeks ago I started to look for a solution on this one (actually baremetal provisioning) and did some comparision here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Baremetal#CloudStackBaremetal-ImagebasedprovisioningforBaremetal

If anyone wants to take over, update the table and let's discuss on possible and appropriate solutions in CloudStack.

Regards.

________________________________________
From: Prasanna Santhanam [prasanna.santhanam@citrix.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:36 PM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:00:18PM -0400, John Burwell wrote:
> David,
>
> Why not expose an API that would allow Cobbler, Foreman, Razor, etc
> to call into CloudStack at the appropriate times?  The current REST
> API may even be sufficient.  Speaking with experience using both
> Cobbler and Foreman, they work better when they are coordinating the
> provisioning activities rather than being embedded into another
> system.   It also avoid any licensing issues, and allows customers
> to chose the tools that most appropriately fits their environment.
>

Yup - Foreman comes to mind since it plays well with puppet too during
post-install. As a seperate appliance per pod would be best, an image
that configures - cobbler/foreman/$your_fav_system as per your
physical infrastructure with the admin's REST api of CloudStack.

--
Prasanna.,

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by Prasanna Santhanam <pr...@citrix.com>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:51:22PM -0400, David Nalley wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Prasanna Santhanam
> <pr...@citrix.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:00:18PM -0400, John Burwell wrote:
> >> David,
> >>
> >> Why not expose an API that would allow Cobbler, Foreman, Razor, etc
> >> to call into CloudStack at the appropriate times?  The current REST
> >> API may even be sufficient.  Speaking with experience using both
> >> Cobbler and Foreman, they work better when they are coordinating the
> >> provisioning activities rather than being embedded into another
> >> system.   It also avoid any licensing issues, and allows customers
> >> to chose the tools that most appropriately fits their environment.
> >>
> >
> > Yup - Foreman comes to mind since it plays well with puppet too during
> > post-install. As a seperate appliance per pod would be best, an image
> > that configures - cobbler/foreman/$your_fav_system as per your
> > physical infrastructure with the admin's REST api of CloudStack.
> 
> Why per pod?

I imagined a pod level switch to be the boundary at which the PXE/DHCP
for the subnet of each pod happens. Since PXE/DHCP which underlies
most of these extended-PXE solutions will not be able to boot hosts in
a different subnet beyond this boundary we'll need to have an instance
per pod. The said appliance would then be sitting on the management
network refreshing the hosts. Either that or allow a multi-homed
appliance with one arm in each pod's subnet to cater to the clusters
within it. The former seems simpler to me.

-- 
Prasanna.,

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Prasanna Santhanam
<pr...@citrix.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:00:18PM -0400, John Burwell wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> Why not expose an API that would allow Cobbler, Foreman, Razor, etc
>> to call into CloudStack at the appropriate times?  The current REST
>> API may even be sufficient.  Speaking with experience using both
>> Cobbler and Foreman, they work better when they are coordinating the
>> provisioning activities rather than being embedded into another
>> system.   It also avoid any licensing issues, and allows customers
>> to chose the tools that most appropriately fits their environment.
>>
>
> Yup - Foreman comes to mind since it plays well with puppet too during
> post-install. As a seperate appliance per pod would be best, an image
> that configures - cobbler/foreman/$your_fav_system as per your
> physical infrastructure with the admin's REST api of CloudStack.


Why per pod?

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by Prasanna Santhanam <pr...@citrix.com>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:00:18PM -0400, John Burwell wrote:
> David,
> 
> Why not expose an API that would allow Cobbler, Foreman, Razor, etc
> to call into CloudStack at the appropriate times?  The current REST
> API may even be sufficient.  Speaking with experience using both
> Cobbler and Foreman, they work better when they are coordinating the
> provisioning activities rather than being embedded into another
> system.   It also avoid any licensing issues, and allows customers
> to chose the tools that most appropriately fits their environment.
> 

Yup - Foreman comes to mind since it plays well with puppet too during
post-install. As a seperate appliance per pod would be best, an image
that configures - cobbler/foreman/$your_fav_system as per your
physical infrastructure with the admin's REST api of CloudStack.
 
-- 
Prasanna.,

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:00 PM, John Burwell <jb...@basho.com> wrote:
> David,
>
> Why not expose an API that would allow Cobbler, Foreman, Razor, etc to call into CloudStack at the appropriate times?  The current REST API may even be sufficient.  Speaking with experience using both Cobbler and Foreman, they work better when they are coordinating the provisioning activities rather than being embedded into another system.   It also avoid any licensing issues, and allows customers to chose the tools that most appropriately fits their environment.
>
> Thanks,
> -John

Completely agree - we shouldn't be trying to 'OEM' or embed any
solution - merely interact with/use it.

--David

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by John Burwell <jb...@basho.com>.
David,

Why not expose an API that would allow Cobbler, Foreman, Razor, etc to call into CloudStack at the appropriate times?  The current REST API may even be sufficient.  Speaking with experience using both Cobbler and Foreman, they work better when they are coordinating the provisioning activities rather than being embedded into another system.   It also avoid any licensing issues, and allows customers to chose the tools that most appropriately fits their environment.

Thanks,
-John

On Oct 23, 2012, at 11:55 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Prasanna Santhanam
> <pr...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 02:14:53AM -0400, Sailaja Mada wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> This is regarding the enhancement : Auto provision of
>>> hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from
>>> the specified IP address range @
>> 
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-372
>>> 
>>> Enhancement Details :
>>> 
>>> 1. Currently Hosts has to be added manually into the cloud to get
>>> provisioned.  2. This is the request to support for Auto provision
>>> of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from
>>> the specified IP address range
>>> 
>>> References for this enhancement :
>>> 
>>> 1. https://supportcontent.ca.com/cadocs/0/CA%20ARCserve%20Unified%20Data%20Protection%20Enterprise%20Support%2016%200-ENU/Bookshelf_Files/HTML/hbug/index.htm?toc.htm?ua_hb_auto_disc_hosts.htm
>>> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxcHtiwZNU
>>> 3. http://support.hyperic.com/display/hyperforge/Hyperic+Custom+Auto-Discovery+Plug-ins
>>> 
>> 
>> I notice that the demos here are talking only about ESXi. If
>> CloudStack were to adopt something like this it would have to support
>> all the hypervisors - Xen,KVM flavours, and VmWare ESXis.
>> 
>> I'm not entirely sure in what state the PING aided baremetal support
>> of Cloudstack is at but if decided to revamp this could fit in there.
>> 
>> In my mind, whatever solution is chosen will have to:
>> 
>> a) support all hypervisors through simple kickstarts.
>> b) work at cloud scale workloads.
>> 
>> I tried catching up on a few solutions that do this kind of
>> provisioning and implemented a bit with cobbler. It seems there isn't
>> a one size fits all. cobbler for instance doesn't work well with
>> Xenserver answer files and is more tailor made to suit typical
>> redhat kickstart style installations. Some flavours like Ubuntu also
>> define their own kickstart grammar. So that increases the complexity
>> of supporting something like this.
>> 
>> Also - such a solution shouldn't assume more than simple PXE booting
>> available. IPMI Enterprise, iDrac etc will not be suitable for all.
>> 
>> I imagine something like a virtual appliance that sits on each of my
>> pod's management network refreshing stuff as I please. Optionally we
>> should allow it to be turned off as well.
>> 
>> This one Ahmad linked to from Puppetconf is also quite interesting:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1bOg0IU5U
>> 
>> --
>> Prasanna.,
> 
> I agree - razor looks prettying interesting here - and I think it
> could be trivial to have ESXi + Xen + KVM installable.
> 
> --David

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Prasanna Santhanam
<pr...@citrix.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 02:14:53AM -0400, Sailaja Mada wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is regarding the enhancement : Auto provision of
>> hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from
>> the specified IP address range @
>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-372
>>
>> Enhancement Details :
>>
>> 1. Currently Hosts has to be added manually into the cloud to get
>> provisioned.  2. This is the request to support for Auto provision
>> of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from
>> the specified IP address range
>>
>> References for this enhancement :
>>
>> 1. https://supportcontent.ca.com/cadocs/0/CA%20ARCserve%20Unified%20Data%20Protection%20Enterprise%20Support%2016%200-ENU/Bookshelf_Files/HTML/hbug/index.htm?toc.htm?ua_hb_auto_disc_hosts.htm
>> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxcHtiwZNU
>> 3. http://support.hyperic.com/display/hyperforge/Hyperic+Custom+Auto-Discovery+Plug-ins
>>
>
> I notice that the demos here are talking only about ESXi. If
> CloudStack were to adopt something like this it would have to support
> all the hypervisors - Xen,KVM flavours, and VmWare ESXis.
>
> I'm not entirely sure in what state the PING aided baremetal support
> of Cloudstack is at but if decided to revamp this could fit in there.
>
> In my mind, whatever solution is chosen will have to:
>
> a) support all hypervisors through simple kickstarts.
> b) work at cloud scale workloads.
>
> I tried catching up on a few solutions that do this kind of
> provisioning and implemented a bit with cobbler. It seems there isn't
> a one size fits all. cobbler for instance doesn't work well with
> Xenserver answer files and is more tailor made to suit typical
> redhat kickstart style installations. Some flavours like Ubuntu also
> define their own kickstart grammar. So that increases the complexity
> of supporting something like this.
>
> Also - such a solution shouldn't assume more than simple PXE booting
> available. IPMI Enterprise, iDrac etc will not be suitable for all.
>
> I imagine something like a virtual appliance that sits on each of my
> pod's management network refreshing stuff as I please. Optionally we
> should allow it to be turned off as well.
>
> This one Ahmad linked to from Puppetconf is also quite interesting:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1bOg0IU5U
>
> --
> Prasanna.,

I agree - razor looks prettying interesting here - and I think it
could be trivial to have ESXi + Xen + KVM installable.

--David

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by Prasanna Santhanam <pr...@citrix.com>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 02:14:53AM -0400, Sailaja Mada wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This is regarding the enhancement : Auto provision of
> hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from
> the specified IP address range @

> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-372
> 
> Enhancement Details :
> 
> 1. Currently Hosts has to be added manually into the cloud to get
> provisioned.  2. This is the request to support for Auto provision
> of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from
> the specified IP address range
> 
> References for this enhancement :
> 
> 1. https://supportcontent.ca.com/cadocs/0/CA%20ARCserve%20Unified%20Data%20Protection%20Enterprise%20Support%2016%200-ENU/Bookshelf_Files/HTML/hbug/index.htm?toc.htm?ua_hb_auto_disc_hosts.htm
> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxcHtiwZNU
> 3. http://support.hyperic.com/display/hyperforge/Hyperic+Custom+Auto-Discovery+Plug-ins
> 

I notice that the demos here are talking only about ESXi. If
CloudStack were to adopt something like this it would have to support
all the hypervisors - Xen,KVM flavours, and VmWare ESXis.

I'm not entirely sure in what state the PING aided baremetal support
of Cloudstack is at but if decided to revamp this could fit in there.

In my mind, whatever solution is chosen will have to:

a) support all hypervisors through simple kickstarts. 
b) work at cloud scale workloads.

I tried catching up on a few solutions that do this kind of
provisioning and implemented a bit with cobbler. It seems there isn't
a one size fits all. cobbler for instance doesn't work well with
Xenserver answer files and is more tailor made to suit typical
redhat kickstart style installations. Some flavours like Ubuntu also
define their own kickstart grammar. So that increases the complexity
of supporting something like this. 

Also - such a solution shouldn't assume more than simple PXE booting
available. IPMI Enterprise, iDrac etc will not be suitable for all. 

I imagine something like a virtual appliance that sits on each of my
pod's management network refreshing stuff as I please. Optionally we
should allow it to be turned off as well.

This one Ahmad linked to from Puppetconf is also quite interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1bOg0IU5U

-- 
Prasanna.,

Re: [Discussion]Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range

Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Sailaja Mada <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is regarding the enhancement : Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range @ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-372
>
> Enhancement Details :
>
> 1. Currently Hosts has to be added manually into the cloud to get provisioned.
> 2. This is the request to support for Auto provision of hosts(hypervisors) into cloud using auto discovery mechanism from the specified IP address range
>
> References for this enhancement :
>
> 1. https://supportcontent.ca.com/cadocs/0/CA%20ARCserve%20Unified%20Data%20Protection%20Enterprise%20Support%2016%200-ENU/Bookshelf_Files/HTML/hbug/index.htm?toc.htm?ua_hb_auto_disc_hosts.htm
>
> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxcHtiwZNU
>
> 3. http://support.hyperic.com/display/hyperforge/Hyperic+Custom+Auto-Discovery+Plug-ins
>
>
> I have started the discussion mail thread as suggested by David Nalley.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Sailaja.M



When you say 'autoprovision' do you mean take the bare metal hardware,
install a hypervisor, and then add it to CloudStack? Or something
else?

What tools would you use to handle installation of the hypervisor?
(Razor and Cobbler jump to mind, but Razor is more appropriately
licensed give our licensing constraints.