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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by jan i <ja...@apache.org> on 2014/01/02 19:44:33 UTC
Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o
Hi All.
We have now reached the end of the lazy consensus period.
There has been no -1, a couple of comments and a couple of +1, this means
the proposal is accepted.
However, I have to admit, I think we have a big problem.
If I go ahead with the proposal (as lazy consensus suggest), and follow the
idea from Andrea. I would have to remove a large part of the vm team. Only
andrea has reacted at all (with a +1), and according to the idea from
andrea we should revoke the others karma.
Can it really be true, that the current vm team dont want to take if I take
lead ? In that case it would be highly wrong of me to use the lazy
consensus.
I can understand a lot of subscribers to this list, dont care (as long as
the services are available), but given the previous debate (and the focus
on forcing me to forward a new proposal), I would have expected the PMC
group to voice their opinion, and also the current vm team.
We cannot just overrule the current sysadm, that does not feel fair !!
Any thoughts ?
rgds
jan I.
On 29 December 2013 16:09, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> top posting.
>
> A friendly reminder, this LAZY Consensus proposal runs until january 2nd.
>
> Until now, no -1 has been received.
>
> Andrea is the only team member that has given a +1
>
> the other team members (jsc, imacat, arist) have not expressed any opinion
> yet.
>
> Wish you all a happy new year.
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>
> On 28 December 2013 17:39, Andrew Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>
>> I have been following as best I can while traveling, and it is not my
>> place to say, but I agree....
>>
>> jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 28 December 2013 16:19, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 22/12/2013 jan i wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> based on a polite push from a good infra colleague, I have decided to
>> >>> present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
>> >>> ooo-forums.a.o
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I agree with the proposal, so +1 from me.
>> >>
>> >> The main value it brings is that we will have a common (and
>> lightweight)
>> >> set of rules that allow us to establish some initial guidelines. This
>> will
>> >> make it easier to include new volunteers later, or promote existing
>> >> volunteers to sysadmin role, or do whatever we agree upon, at due
>> time. But
>> >> we need an initial set of guidelines to work effectively as a team.
>> >
>> >
>> >thanks for your +1, thats the first of the existing team, I still hope
>> the
>> >rest of the team will join. The intention of the proposal is NOT to
>> exclude
>> >anybody, it (as andrea write very nicely) to make a basis on which we can
>> >build, while securing our servers.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat for
>> >>> vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
>> >>> mentioned people.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I'm willing to be part of team as proposed.
>> >
>> >thx, your input and help is much valued.
>> >
>> >Remember there are 3 days left of this year, if you have something to
>> catch
>> >up on.
>> >
>> >rgds
>> >jan I.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Andrea.
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>
Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/02/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb jan i:
> Can it really be true, that the current vm team dont want to take if I take
> lead ? In that case it would be highly wrong of me to use the lazy
> consensus.
Maybe a bit early to give up. Perhaps they are still a bit in the
offline mode due to year end/beginning with holidays/vacation.
I would send a reminder and keep it open for another 1-2 weeks.
Marcus
> On 29 December 2013 16:09, jan i<ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> top posting.
>>
>> A friendly reminder, this LAZY Consensus proposal runs until january 2nd.
>>
>> Until now, no -1 has been received.
>>
>> Andrea is the only team member that has given a +1
>>
>> the other team members (jsc, imacat, arist) have not expressed any opinion
>> yet.
>>
>> Wish you all a happy new year.
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 December 2013 17:39, Andrew Pitonyak<an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been following as best I can while traveling, and it is not my
>>> place to say, but I agree....
>>>
>>> jan i<ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28 December 2013 16:19, Andrea Pescetti<pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 22/12/2013 jan i wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> based on a polite push from a good infra colleague, I have decided to
>>>>>> present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
>>>>>> ooo-forums.a.o
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with the proposal, so +1 from me.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main value it brings is that we will have a common (and
>>> lightweight)
>>>>> set of rules that allow us to establish some initial guidelines. This
>>> will
>>>>> make it easier to include new volunteers later, or promote existing
>>>>> volunteers to sysadmin role, or do whatever we agree upon, at due
>>> time. But
>>>>> we need an initial set of guidelines to work effectively as a team.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your +1, thats the first of the existing team, I still hope
>>> the
>>>> rest of the team will join. The intention of the proposal is NOT to
>>> exclude
>>>> anybody, it (as andrea write very nicely) to make a basis on which we can
>>>> build, while securing our servers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat for
>>>>>> vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
>>>>>> mentioned people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm willing to be part of team as proposed.
>>>>
>>>> thx, your input and help is much valued.
>>>>
>>>> Remember there are 3 days left of this year, if you have something to
>>> catch
>>>> up on.
>>>>
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Andrea.
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Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
jan i wrote:
> Lazy consensus has already been reached, but we need to have the acceptance
> of the current (or a new) vm team, since its not adviceable that I work
> alone.
OK, let's give some more time to the three missing team members (arist,
imacat, jsc) to answer if they would like to be in the team. The
deadline you propose (end of February) seems very late, but hopefully
we'll get feedback from them before it and we'll be able to start
working earlier than that.
> its not only vacation
This is surely a factor anyway: for example, in Italy traditionally the
holidays end on January 6th (first working day January 7th) in schools,
Universities and some public services. But I believed that January 2nd
would have been a suitable deadline too.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/02/2014 08:20 PM, schrieb jan i:
> On 2 January 2014 20:10, Rob Weir<ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM, jan i<ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hi All.
>>>
>>> We have now reached the end of the lazy consensus period.
>>>
>>> There has been no -1, a couple of comments and a couple of +1, this means
>>> the proposal is accepted.
>>>
>>> However, I have to admit, I think we have a big problem.
>>>
>>> If I go ahead with the proposal (as lazy consensus suggest), and follow
>> the
>>> idea from Andrea. I would have to remove a large part of the vm team.
>> Only
>>> andrea has reacted at all (with a +1), and according to the idea from
>>> andrea we should revoke the others karma.
>>>
>>> Can it really be true, that the current vm team dont want to take if I
>> take
>>> lead ? In that case it would be highly wrong of me to use the lazy
>>> consensus.
>>>
>>
>> The problem is timing. Quite a few people are still on holiday and
>> will not return until next week. In fact this whole thing has been
>> discussed in a time when several people were away.
>>
> I agree timing is an issue, but it has been said we wanted a fast decision.
>
> I have seen nearly all vm members answering other mails in the period, so
> its not only vacation, this proposal has in reality now been discussed for
> about 3 month.
write to the missing team members directly (and dev@ in CC). Maybe it
makes a difference if they get an extra and personal shove.
Marcus
> There was a deadline on the proposal, far longer than 72 hours, to allow us
> to act.
>
> However I have no problem extending the deadline, it simply means we
> continue with the current setup during that period.
>
> The lazy consensus is extended to 28 february 2014. This allows for any
> holidays, release, FOSDEM etc.
>
> Lazy consensus has already been reached, but we need to have the acceptance
> of the current (or a new) vm team, since its not adviceable that I work
> alone.
>
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> I can understand a lot of subscribers to this list, dont care (as long as
>>> the services are available), but given the previous debate (and the focus
>>> on forcing me to forward a new proposal), I would have expected the PMC
>>> group to voice their opinion, and also the current vm team.
>>>
>>> We cannot just overrule the current sysadm, that does not feel fair !!
>>>
>>> Any thoughts ?
>>> rgds
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 December 2013 16:09, jan i<ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> top posting.
>>>>
>>>> A friendly reminder, this LAZY Consensus proposal runs until january
>> 2nd.
>>>>
>>>> Until now, no -1 has been received.
>>>>
>>>> Andrea is the only team member that has given a +1
>>>>
>>>> the other team members (jsc, imacat, arist) have not expressed any
>> opinion
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>> Wish you all a happy new year.
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 28 December 2013 17:39, Andrew Pitonyak<an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have been following as best I can while traveling, and it is not my
>>>>> place to say, but I agree....
>>>>>
>>>>> jan i<ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28 December 2013 16:19, Andrea Pescetti<pe...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22/12/2013 jan i wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> based on a polite push from a good infra colleague, I have
>> decided to
>>>>>>>> present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
>>>>>>>> ooo-forums.a.o
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the proposal, so +1 from me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The main value it brings is that we will have a common (and
>>>>> lightweight)
>>>>>>> set of rules that allow us to establish some initial guidelines.
>> This
>>>>> will
>>>>>>> make it easier to include new volunteers later, or promote existing
>>>>>>> volunteers to sysadmin role, or do whatever we agree upon, at due
>>>>> time. But
>>>>>>> we need an initial set of guidelines to work effectively as a team.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for your +1, thats the first of the existing team, I still hope
>>>>> the
>>>>>> rest of the team will join. The intention of the proposal is NOT to
>>>>> exclude
>>>>>> anybody, it (as andrea write very nicely) to make a basis on which we
>> can
>>>>>> build, while securing our servers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat
>> for
>>>>>>>> vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
>>>>>>>> mentioned people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm willing to be part of team as proposed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thx, your input and help is much valued.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember there are 3 days left of this year, if you have something to
>>>>> catch
>>>>>> up on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rgds
>>>>>> jan I.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Andrea.
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Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 2 January 2014 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Hi All.
> >
> > We have now reached the end of the lazy consensus period.
> >
> > There has been no -1, a couple of comments and a couple of +1, this means
> > the proposal is accepted.
> >
> > However, I have to admit, I think we have a big problem.
> >
> > If I go ahead with the proposal (as lazy consensus suggest), and follow
> the
> > idea from Andrea. I would have to remove a large part of the vm team.
> Only
> > andrea has reacted at all (with a +1), and according to the idea from
> > andrea we should revoke the others karma.
> >
> > Can it really be true, that the current vm team dont want to take if I
> take
> > lead ? In that case it would be highly wrong of me to use the lazy
> > consensus.
> >
>
> The problem is timing. Quite a few people are still on holiday and
> will not return until next week. In fact this whole thing has been
> discussed in a time when several people were away.
>
I agree timing is an issue, but it has been said we wanted a fast decision.
I have seen nearly all vm members answering other mails in the period, so
its not only vacation, this proposal has in reality now been discussed for
about 3 month.
There was a deadline on the proposal, far longer than 72 hours, to allow us
to act.
However I have no problem extending the deadline, it simply means we
continue with the current setup during that period.
The lazy consensus is extended to 28 february 2014. This allows for any
holidays, release, FOSDEM etc.
Lazy consensus has already been reached, but we need to have the acceptance
of the current (or a new) vm team, since its not adviceable that I work
alone.
rgds
jan I.
-Rob
>
>
> > I can understand a lot of subscribers to this list, dont care (as long as
> > the services are available), but given the previous debate (and the focus
> > on forcing me to forward a new proposal), I would have expected the PMC
> > group to voice their opinion, and also the current vm team.
> >
> > We cannot just overrule the current sysadm, that does not feel fair !!
> >
> > Any thoughts ?
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> > On 29 December 2013 16:09, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> top posting.
> >>
> >> A friendly reminder, this LAZY Consensus proposal runs until january
> 2nd.
> >>
> >> Until now, no -1 has been received.
> >>
> >> Andrea is the only team member that has given a +1
> >>
> >> the other team members (jsc, imacat, arist) have not expressed any
> opinion
> >> yet.
> >>
> >> Wish you all a happy new year.
> >> rgds
> >> jan I.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28 December 2013 17:39, Andrew Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have been following as best I can while traveling, and it is not my
> >>> place to say, but I agree....
> >>>
> >>> jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >On 28 December 2013 16:19, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> On 22/12/2013 jan i wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> based on a polite push from a good infra colleague, I have
> decided to
> >>> >>> present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
> >>> >>> ooo-forums.a.o
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I agree with the proposal, so +1 from me.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The main value it brings is that we will have a common (and
> >>> lightweight)
> >>> >> set of rules that allow us to establish some initial guidelines.
> This
> >>> will
> >>> >> make it easier to include new volunteers later, or promote existing
> >>> >> volunteers to sysadmin role, or do whatever we agree upon, at due
> >>> time. But
> >>> >> we need an initial set of guidelines to work effectively as a team.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >thanks for your +1, thats the first of the existing team, I still hope
> >>> the
> >>> >rest of the team will join. The intention of the proposal is NOT to
> >>> exclude
> >>> >anybody, it (as andrea write very nicely) to make a basis on which we
> can
> >>> >build, while securing our servers.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat
> for
> >>> >>> vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
> >>> >>> mentioned people.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I'm willing to be part of team as proposed.
> >>> >
> >>> >thx, your input and help is much valued.
> >>> >
> >>> >Remember there are 3 days left of this year, if you have something to
> >>> catch
> >>> >up on.
> >>> >
> >>> >rgds
> >>> >jan I.
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Regards,
> >>> >> Andrea.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi All.
>
> We have now reached the end of the lazy consensus period.
>
> There has been no -1, a couple of comments and a couple of +1, this means
> the proposal is accepted.
>
> However, I have to admit, I think we have a big problem.
>
> If I go ahead with the proposal (as lazy consensus suggest), and follow the
> idea from Andrea. I would have to remove a large part of the vm team. Only
> andrea has reacted at all (with a +1), and according to the idea from
> andrea we should revoke the others karma.
>
> Can it really be true, that the current vm team dont want to take if I take
> lead ? In that case it would be highly wrong of me to use the lazy
> consensus.
>
The problem is timing. Quite a few people are still on holiday and
will not return until next week. In fact this whole thing has been
discussed in a time when several people were away.
-Rob
> I can understand a lot of subscribers to this list, dont care (as long as
> the services are available), but given the previous debate (and the focus
> on forcing me to forward a new proposal), I would have expected the PMC
> group to voice their opinion, and also the current vm team.
>
> We cannot just overrule the current sysadm, that does not feel fair !!
>
> Any thoughts ?
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
> On 29 December 2013 16:09, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> top posting.
>>
>> A friendly reminder, this LAZY Consensus proposal runs until january 2nd.
>>
>> Until now, no -1 has been received.
>>
>> Andrea is the only team member that has given a +1
>>
>> the other team members (jsc, imacat, arist) have not expressed any opinion
>> yet.
>>
>> Wish you all a happy new year.
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 December 2013 17:39, Andrew Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been following as best I can while traveling, and it is not my
>>> place to say, but I agree....
>>>
>>> jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 28 December 2013 16:19, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 22/12/2013 jan i wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> based on a polite push from a good infra colleague, I have decided to
>>> >>> present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
>>> >>> ooo-forums.a.o
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree with the proposal, so +1 from me.
>>> >>
>>> >> The main value it brings is that we will have a common (and
>>> lightweight)
>>> >> set of rules that allow us to establish some initial guidelines. This
>>> will
>>> >> make it easier to include new volunteers later, or promote existing
>>> >> volunteers to sysadmin role, or do whatever we agree upon, at due
>>> time. But
>>> >> we need an initial set of guidelines to work effectively as a team.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >thanks for your +1, thats the first of the existing team, I still hope
>>> the
>>> >rest of the team will join. The intention of the proposal is NOT to
>>> exclude
>>> >anybody, it (as andrea write very nicely) to make a basis on which we can
>>> >build, while securing our servers.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat for
>>> >>> vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
>>> >>> mentioned people.
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm willing to be part of team as proposed.
>>> >
>>> >thx, your input and help is much valued.
>>> >
>>> >Remember there are 3 days left of this year, if you have something to
>>> catch
>>> >up on.
>>> >
>>> >rgds
>>> >jan I.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Andrea.
>>> >>
>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>>
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