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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2005/06/01 10:32:00 UTC
Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Cocoonistas,
You might have noticed yesterday's announcement at
http://code.google.com/ about the Summer of Code initiative,
http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html
We should have more detailed info for the ASF communities in the next
few days (we're still ironing out the details about project sandboxes,
CLAs etc.), but as the initiative is public already, project
propositions are welcome at
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005.
Each project needs to have at least one mentor (who must be a committer
AFAIK, but various models might be possible) to happen, so that
students are not lost in the dark.
I have entered a project at
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc, and I'm
looking for at least one co-mentor, as I'll be partially offline in
July and August. If someone's available for this, please let me know.
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 2 juin 05, à 12:22, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
> ...One question to the role of the mentor: AFAIU it's about guiding
> him but I won't be able to answer all questions in detail - if I could
> I would have done it myself ;-)..
That's how I understand it: the mentor is the contact person, can help
about where to find the answers but does not necessarily know them.
See also http://code.google.com/mentfaq.html under "What is the role of
a mentoring organization?".
IMO all this will be the mentor's responsibility for the mentored
projects.
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
On Jue, 2 de Junio de 2005, 16:50, Sylvain Wallez dijo:
> Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>
>>> Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms
>>> features, etc.)?
>>
>
> What about some ajax stylings for cforms? Some I'd love to have are:
> - "cocoon suggests" ajax styling for cforms fields providing
> autocompletion of inputs,
> - reorderable repeaters [1]
What about the XUL interface for cforms? I will like to add this project.
First I want to know what you think about this 2 months task?
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25295
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 3 juin 05, à 08:26, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
> ...From my personal experience over the last years I'm sure that there
> are many clever students out there who are definitly able to implement
> the difficult topics like Rhino scope and continuations serialization
> but they haven't had the itch to scratch. $4500 could change their
> minds ;-)...
Agreed, and by selecting 200 students out of all those who apply (I
guess there will be much more than 200 applications) means only the
best ones will be selected.
But the burden will be on us to evaluate whether the applying student
has what it takes - like we'd do for an internship I guess.
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Don't want to rain on the party, but this is *summer* of code, meaning 2
> months of work[2]. Expecting students to implement difficult things
> (e.g. continuations serialization)
After skim reading the project proposals of other Apache projects and the other
OS projects I disagree that the level of continuations serialization and the
attribute based template engine is too high. 2 months of work means (at least in
Austria) 640 hours work time which is a lot. Of course, if you have to learn
Java first, the time won't be enough. And don't forget, IIRC it was a student
who founded our beloved Cocoon ;-)
From my personal experience over the last years I'm sure that there are many
clever students out there who are definitly able to implement the difficult
topics like Rhino scope and continuations serialization but they haven't had the
itch to scratch. $4500 could change their minds ;-).
And not to forget, continuation serialization in particular, is probably more a
Rhino topic than Cocoon topic. If the students get the serialization of Rhino
scopes and continuations working, we can tackle *together* the very
Cocoon-specific topics like Avalon components and the service manager.
In the worst case nobody will apply for the topic which would mean that sooner
or later we will have to do it ourselves ;-)
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>
>
>>> Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms
>>> features, etc.)?
>>
>>
>
> What about some ajax stylings for cforms? Some I'd love to have are:
> - "cocoon suggests" ajax styling for cforms fields providing
> autocompletion of inputs,
> - reorderable repeaters [1]
>
>> 1. Convert all poolable gnerators, and transformers to be thread safe.
>
>
>
> +1
>
>> 2. Modify the build process to use maven.
>
>
>
> ... or rewrite the ant builds to use the <library> task and without
> generating the blocks build file with XSLT.
>
> Don't want to rain on the party, but this is *summer* of code, meaning
> 2 months of work[2]. Expecting students to implement difficult things
> (e.g. continuations serialization) or cleaning up the bugzilla, even
> all this is badly needed, seem too complicated to me for a student
> discovering our code base.
>
> So subjects that have a chance to be successful in terms of candidates
> and result are those that don't need to much in-depth knowledge of the
> core and have a clear functionnal scope.
Agreed. However, before creating proposals it would also be nice to
know that there is buy-in from the committers that a proposal should be
made. I wouldn't want to propose something that other committers would
object to.
>
> Sylvain
>
> [1] http://tool-man.org/examples/edit-in-place.html#listExamples
> [2] http://code.google.com/summfaq.html
Ralph
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Ralph Goers wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>> Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms
>> features, etc.)?
>
What about some ajax stylings for cforms? Some I'd love to have are:
- "cocoon suggests" ajax styling for cforms fields providing
autocompletion of inputs,
- reorderable repeaters [1]
> 1. Convert all poolable gnerators, and transformers to be thread safe.
+1
> 2. Modify the build process to use maven.
... or rewrite the ant builds to use the <library> task and without
generating the blocks build file with XSLT.
Don't want to rain on the party, but this is *summer* of code, meaning 2
months of work[2]. Expecting students to implement difficult things
(e.g. continuations serialization) or cleaning up the bugzilla, even all
this is badly needed, seem too complicated to me for a student
discovering our code base.
So subjects that have a chance to be successful in terms of candidates
and result are those that don't need to much in-depth knowledge of the
core and have a clear functionnal scope.
Sylvain
[1] http://tool-man.org/examples/edit-in-place.html#listExamples
[2] http://code.google.com/summfaq.html
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://apache.org/~sylvain http://anyware-tech.com
Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-flowscript-serialization.
>
>
>
> Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms
> features, etc.)?
>
1. Convert all poolable gnerators, and transformers to be thread safe.
2. Modify the build process to use maven.
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-flowscript-serialization.
>
>
>
> Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms
> features, etc.)?
>
Web service integration. It is a common user requirement and we have a
number of implementations with various properties and also some variants
within Cocoon. But we have nothing coherent yet. Also the Axis 2.0
architecture seem quite interesting. I'm interested enough to do some
mentoring in the area but not enough to implement anything in the near
future.
/Daniel
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Leszek Gawron wrote:
>
>> 1. we still have not touched the subject of attribute driven template
>> language. it would nicely suit as a project that could be finished
>> till the end of summer.
>>
>> 2. cforms reusable widget repository...
>
>
> yes, I like both ideas! Who wants to mentor the projects? Tim, Leszek?
>
I can at least be a co-mentor for the attribute driven templates.
/Daniel
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Tim Larson <ti...@keow.org>.
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 02:28:36PM +0100, Tim Larson wrote:
> About the "reusable widget repository"...there is already working
> code in whiteboard/forms, just needs to be reviewed to see what
> changes we may want and then updated to sync with svn trunk head.
I take part of that back...there is a good bit that still could be
designed and coded with regard to extension and parameterization.
--Tim Larson
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Tim Larson <ti...@keow.org>.
On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 02:08:13PM +0200, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Leszek Gawron wrote:
>
> >1. we still have not touched the subject of attribute driven template
> >language. it would nicely suit as a project that could be finished till
> >the end of summer.
> >
> >2. cforms reusable widget repository...
>
> yes, I like both ideas! Who wants to mentor the projects? Tim, Leszek?
While I would like to, I will not have enough time to be an offical
mentor, due to buying a house and moving into it during this same
timespan. However, I will gladly help unoffically with whatever time
I end up having.
About the "reusable widget repository"...there is already working
code in whiteboard/forms, just needs to be reviewed to see what
changes we may want and then updated to sync with svn trunk head.
--Tim Larson
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se>.
Leszek Gawron wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>> Leszek Gawron wrote:
>>
>>> 1. we still have not touched the subject of attribute driven
>>> template language. it would nicely suit as a project that could be
>>> finished till the end of summer.
>>>
>>> 2. cforms reusable widget repository...
>>
>>
>>
>> yes, I like both ideas! Who wants to mentor the projects? Tim, Leszek?
>
> I propose that me and Daniel (as he already agreed in other post)
> co-mentor template project and Tim does the cforms (if he wants to of
> course). I would surely love to contribute in both areas.
>
Wrote a proposal for ATL:
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-atl
Leszek, add your email and update the description if you want to change
or add anything.
/Daniel
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Leszek Gawron <lg...@mobilebox.pl>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Leszek Gawron wrote:
>
>> 1. we still have not touched the subject of attribute driven template
>> language. it would nicely suit as a project that could be finished
>> till the end of summer.
>>
>> 2. cforms reusable widget repository...
>
>
> yes, I like both ideas! Who wants to mentor the projects? Tim, Leszek?
I propose that me and Daniel (as he already agreed in other post)
co-mentor template project and Tim does the cforms (if he wants to of
course). I would surely love to contribute in both areas.
--
Leszek Gawron lgawron@mobilebox.pl
IT Manager MobileBox sp. z o.o.
+48 (61) 855 06 67 http://www.mobilebox.pl
mobile: +48 (501) 720 812 fax: +48 (61) 853 29 65
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Leszek Gawron wrote:
> 1. we still have not touched the subject of attribute driven template
> language. it would nicely suit as a project that could be finished till
> the end of summer.
>
> 2. cforms reusable widget repository...
yes, I like both ideas! Who wants to mentor the projects? Tim, Leszek?
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Leszek Gawron <lg...@mobilebox.pl>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-flowscript-serialization.
>
>
>
> Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms features,
> etc.)?
I posted the answer under wrong subthread:
1. we still have not touched the subject of attribute driven template
language. it would nicely suit as a project that could be finished till
the end of summer.
2. cforms reusable widget repository...
--
Leszek Gawron lgawron@mobilebox.pl
IT Manager MobileBox sp. z o.o.
+48 (61) 855 06 67 http://www.mobilebox.pl
mobile: +48 (501) 720 812 fax: +48 (61) 853 29 65
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 2 juin 05, à 13:51, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
> ...Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms
> features, etc.)?
People with ideas are welcome to write them up at
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005, even if no mentor is
available yet.
In that case, putting dev@cocoon.apache.org as the contact address and
a note like "we're still looking for a mentor" would be ok.
If some of us are thinking of mentoring one project but not more, it
might help in doing a "dynamic allocation" of mentors to projects which
actually happen.
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-flowscript-serialization.
Do we have something else on our wishlists (some fancy cforms features, etc.)?
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>
>>> Le 2 juin 05, à 11:56, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
>>>
>>>> ...Are we allowed to offer another project? I would like to propose
>>>> http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=33324
>>>> (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FlowscriptAndSessionReplication)...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, there's no problem in having several Cocoon-related projects!
>>
>>
>>
>> Fine! Any volonteers for the role of the second mentor?
>>
>> ---
>>
>> One question to the role of the mentor: AFAIU it's about guiding him
>> but I won't be able to answer all questions in detail - if I could I
>> would have done it myself ;-)
>>
>> Am I right here?
>
>
> The way I see it is that the design discussion should occur through the
> normal develpoment channels, so the idea is they do some background work
> and come back to the community with a proposal or RT, once the design is
> complete they have to implement it. Again, problems are solved through
> the normal community channels.
Bertrand and Ross, thanks for your answers. Find the project description at
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-flowscript-serialization.
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> Le 2 juin 05, à 11:56, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
>>
>>> ...Are we allowed to offer another project? I would like to propose
>>> http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=33324
>>> (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FlowscriptAndSessionReplication)...
>>
>>
>>
>> Sure, there's no problem in having several Cocoon-related projects!
>
>
> Fine! Any volonteers for the role of the second mentor?
>
> ---
>
> One question to the role of the mentor: AFAIU it's about guiding him but
> I won't be able to answer all questions in detail - if I could I would
> have done it myself ;-)
>
> Am I right here?
The way I see it is that the design discussion should occur through the
normal develpoment channels, so the idea is they do some background work
and come back to the community with a proposal or RT, once the design is
complete they have to implement it. Again, problems are solved through
the normal community channels.
Ross
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le 2 juin 05, à 11:56, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
>
>> ...Are we allowed to offer another project? I would like to propose
>> http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=33324
>> (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FlowscriptAndSessionReplication)...
>
>
> Sure, there's no problem in having several Cocoon-related projects!
Fine! Any volonteers for the role of the second mentor?
---
One question to the role of the mentor: AFAIU it's about guiding him but I won't
be able to answer all questions in detail - if I could I would have done it
myself ;-)
Am I right here?
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 2 juin 05, à 11:56, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
> ...Are we allowed to offer another project? I would like to propose
> http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=33324
> (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FlowscriptAndSessionReplication)...
Sure, there's no problem in having several Cocoon-related projects!
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Cocoonistas,
>
> You might have noticed yesterday's announcement at
> http://code.google.com/ about the Summer of Code initiative,
> http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html
>
> We should have more detailed info for the ASF communities in the next
> few days (we're still ironing out the details about project sandboxes,
> CLAs etc.), but as the initiative is public already, project
> propositions are welcome at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005.
>
> Each project needs to have at least one mentor (who must be a committer
> AFAIK, but various models might be possible) to happen, so that students
> are not lost in the dark.
>
> I have entered a project at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc, and I'm
> looking for at least one co-mentor, as I'll be partially offline in July
> and August. If someone's available for this, please let me know.
Are we allowed to offer another project? I would like to propose
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=33324
(http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FlowscriptAndSessionReplication).
I volunteer as mentor and as Betrand I'm looking for a co-mentor as I will be
offline for two or three weeks.
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Ross,
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> ....I have entered a project at
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc, and
>> I'm looking for at least one co-mentor, as I'll be partially offline
>> in July and August. If someone's available for this, please let me
>> know.
>
> Bertrand, I will be willing to be a second mentor on this, although we
> will have to compare dates in July as I will be away for a week around
> ApacheCon.
Great! I'll be mostly online during ApacheCon, so between us two we
should be able to cover the whole period. I've added you as a second
mentor.
> ...Also, I'm not a committer here at Cocoon only at Forrest so
> I'm not sure howthat affects your comment "must be a committer AFAIK,
> but various models might be possible"..
I don't think this will be a problem, and IIUC the plan is to have
students work in dedicated sandboxes anyway. We'll sort it out in due
time I think.
> ...I've also added a Forrest project at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#forrest-voice..
Sounds good (or "will sound good" ;-)
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Cocoonistas,
>
> You might have noticed yesterday's announcement at
> http://code.google.com/ about the Summer of Code initiative,
> http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html
>
> We should have more detailed info for the ASF communities in the next
> few days (we're still ironing out the details about project sandboxes,
> CLAs etc.), but as the initiative is public already, project
> propositions are welcome at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005.
>
> Each project needs to have at least one mentor (who must be a committer
> AFAIK, but various models might be possible) to happen, so that students
> are not lost in the dark.
>
> I have entered a project at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc, and I'm
> looking for at least one co-mentor, as I'll be partially offline in July
> and August. If someone's available for this, please let me know.
Bertrand, I will be willing to be a second mentor on this, although we
will have to compare dates in July as I will be away for a week around
ApacheCon. Also, I'm not a committer here at Cocoon only at Forrest so
I'm not sure howthat affects your comment "must be a committer AFAIK,
but various models might be possible"
I've also added a Forrest project at
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#forrest-voice
Ross
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 1 juin 05, à 13:51, Mark Leicester a écrit :
>> I have entered a project at
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc
>
> An excellent proposal! I'll be around during that period and am keen
> to offer my 2p also.
Thanks! Of course, all technical discussions about these projects will
happen on the respective mailing lists, so you'll be more than welcome
to give feedback and/or help the students.
IIUC the role of the mentors is more a committment to the student (and
to Google) that someone will be here to assist them and assess their
work, but actual work is meant to happen right here, in collaboration
with all community members as usual.
The ASF still has to clarify how to allow the students to contribute
their code easily, as they won't be given full commit access unless
they're committers already, but we want them to get acquainted with the
actual process that we're using. We might use SVN sandboxes or branches
with different access rights, but this hasn't been formally decided
yet.
I think it's like having an intern work at your company: you want them
to have the tools but not to use the really sharp ones on their own.
-Bertrand
Re: Google Summer of Code - projects and mentors wanted
Posted by Mark Leicester <ma...@efurbishment.com>.
> I have entered a project at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2005#cocoon-refdoc
An excellent proposal! I'll be around during that period and am keen to
offer my 2p also.
Mark