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Posted to dev@fineract.apache.org by James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com> on 2023/06/12 19:11:18 UTC
How To Spin Up Local Instance
I don't think we need more than Docker to get most developers going.
Agreed?
(let's drop minikube or whatevers)
and, what is the base of our current Docker? I proposed Alpine a few years
back, but cannot remember what we used. Can we get an update going?
the documentation about this should be simple to follow
Maybe we just list those other deployment ideas for "other ideas to do" -
more of an invitation than something that we support in our documentation.
Any objection to those kinds of changes to the documentation ?
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Website and Wiki for Fineract updates
To: <de...@fineract.apache.org>
Hi Bruce - Good to know about those gaps in deployment and tools, but are
those the only gaps in the documentation?
So, question to you: is it already sufficiently clear on these topics:
* explaining what the software does
* explaining the architecture
* explaining relationship between different components
* what features are in each release
* how to set up development environment
* how to access APIs
* how to find additional resources
I did ask for 3-5 priority things, so please do try to identify where we
start, even from your very long list or maybe adding to it, can we get your
opinion on a few key things?
What would you say is a priority?
As a project, I think we need to simply and only offer one or two
deployment options in our documentation, that way we can focus on getting
those accurate and keeping them up to date. Others are of course free to
offer their own improvements and alternatives.
All - comments welcome.
Thanks,
James
On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM Bruce <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to share some observations
> after going through the documentation for Fineract again.
>
> While the documentation provides an overview of deployment options here
> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_deployment , I noticed that
> several options, such as Docker Compose, Tomcat, Undertow, Jetty, JBoss,
> Weblogic, and Payara, are marked as TBD, indicating a lack of content and
> guidance for users. There is also no deployment content on Kubernetes, AWS
> and Google Cloud. Let's address this.
>
> Additionally, the Fineract Development section here
> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_fineract_development_environment
> appears to be incomplete and in need of further content to cover
> important topics related to Fineract development. This section also
> includes topics marked as "TBD" on the website, such as Docker, Docker
> Compose, Podman, Rancher Docker Desktop, IDE selection and configuration
> (including IntelliJ, Eclipse, and VSCode), Kubernetes deployment and
> management, Minikube, Microk8s, K3d, Helm Charts, and installation and
> usage of various development tools like Brew for MacOS and Linux. I
> propose that the community contibutes content for the following topics:
>
>
> - Docker: how to install, run, and use Docker containers for Fineract
> - Docker Compose: how to use Docker Compose to orchestrate multiple
> containers for Fineract
> - Podman: how to use Podman as an alternative to Docker for running
> containers
> - Rancher Docker Desktop: how to use Rancher Docker Desktop to run
> Kubernetes clusters on one's local machine
> - IDE: how to choose and configure an IDE for Fineract development
> - IntelliJ: how to set up and use IntelliJ IDEA as an IDE for Fineract
> - Eclipse: how to set up and use Eclipse as an IDE for Fineract
> - VSCode: how to set up and use VSCode as an IDE for Fineract
> - Kubernetes: how to deploy and manage Fineract on Kubernetes clusters
> - Minikube: how to use Minikube to run a local Kubernetes cluster for
> Fineract
> - Microk8s: how to use Microk8s to run a lightweight Kubernetes
> cluster for Fineract
> - K3d: how to use K3d to run a Kubernetes cluster in Docker for
> Fineract
> - Helm Charts: how to use Helm Charts to package and deploy Fineract
> applications on Kubernetes
> - Tools: how to install and use various tools that can help one with
> Fineract development
> - Brew: how to install and use Brew for MacOS and Linux
>
> By actively addressing these gaps in the documentation, we can provide
> valuable support to the Fineract community and further showcase the
> flexibility and compatibility of Fineract with different technologies and
> platforms.
>
> I look forward to collaborating with the community to contribute content
> for these important topics and improve the overall documentation for
> Fineract.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Bruce
>
> On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 10:03 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Meta or Bruce - any updates?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 11:17 PM Meta Cyrus <in...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep I'll be sharing the new design in which I hage taken care of all the
>>> previous points you and others mentioned..
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 23 Mar, 2023, 6:29 am James Dailey, <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've started to change some of the structure of the wiki. I'm just
>>>> trying to clean it up: Does anyone have an objection?
>>>>
>>>> * Noting where content is historical and deprecating it
>>>> * Moving the Quarterly PMC reports to slightly more prominence
>>>>
>>>> This is incremental.
>>>>
>>>> Inzemam - can you provide a new design to review taking on the feedback?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 11:37 AM Meta Cyrus <in...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Okay I'll be looking into it..
>>>> > Also I am looking forward for GSOC'23 for MIFOS too in the frontend
>>>> fields. Surely working effectively with both the orgs by making good
>>>> designs with premium feel.
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Inzemam
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, 10 Mar, 2023, 1:03 am James Dailey, <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Please make a set of suggestions or revise your designs based on
>>>> input.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Feel free to dive into this .
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 9:54 AM Meta Cyrus <in...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hello James,
>>>> >>> When we are going to start the work or are we leaving it for future?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Regards,
>>>> >>> Inzemam
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Sun, 26 Feb, 2023, 7:40 am Meta Cyrus, <in...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Hi James,
>>>> >>>> You are correct that we need to discuss more on the flows of
>>>> events and placements. And I am also agree with the point that we can
>>>> create a slack channel for this.
>>>> >>>> Also the code will be in simple html, css and js format so anyone
>>>> can create/change the things easily. The design is looking fancy and
>>>> complicated but the code is as smooth as butter. So need to worry about
>>>> maintainance.
>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Sun, 26 Feb, 2023, 1:35 am James Dailey, <
>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Hi - Thank you for this.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> It's a very good conversation starter. I agreed with most of
>>>> Javier's comments, which makes clear that we need to do a better job of
>>>> "Explaining" and "Positioning".
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> ASIDE: Javier - I invite you to write more such text and provide
>>>> a top level set of bullet points that can be perhaps worked into the
>>>> content.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I think that the design colors are ok, the blue is appropriate
>>>> for a financial system, meaning steady and trustworthy on the color wheel.
>>>> Nice.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> We need more revamping of the content before we can properly do
>>>> this design, so let's try to attack that problem.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Here is a requirement that may not be clear to you:
>>>> >>>>> * Site should be very simple, easy to change by anyone opening up
>>>> a Text Editor and modifying the HTML directly. e.g. use CSS styles and
>>>> hopefully with names that make sense
>>>> >>>>> * Assume that you are gone and someone else has to modify just
>>>> some text areas, adding content in specific sections.
>>>> >>>>> * Assume that no-one touches the website for over a year, maybe
>>>> three years, and avoid content that can get stale.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Message and Content issues:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * Fineract is part of Apache and this is not always clear from
>>>> the page today. Also, there is a common set of links and structure that you
>>>> can find in other Apache projects. It is not a requirement to follow other
>>>> Apache projects, but it would be useful to review them for commonalities:
>>>> >>>>> --> https://hadoop.apache.org
>>>> >>>>> --> https://airflow.apache.org
>>>> >>>>> --> https://kafka.apache.org
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * Note Community is there in each project. Check out the content
>>>> that each project has.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * Key tasks should be up top : Learn more, Help, Download
>>>> >>>>> and this should then flow into the requirements for the other
>>>> sections on the front page and then onto the wiki structure that we need
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * At this time Fineract-CN should probably not receive equal
>>>> billing as the Fineract1.x releases it is still trying to get to a first
>>>> release and fineract1.x is releasing on a regular basis with lots of
>>>> activity. So, move Fineract-CN to a bottom section that's something about
>>>> "Additional community technologies"
>>>> >>>>> I was and am a big fan of this framework, and I know this
>>>> positioning is controversial for some, but until we get a release out and
>>>> lots of active development and deployments, that project remains very much
>>>> a side project of the community. It may become a very important thing, but
>>>> for now we should reflect the reality which is that Fineract1.x is where
>>>> the vast majority of the dev is going on, and the vast majority of the
>>>> users are there.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * We need to emphasize the key features of Fineract - there
>>>> should be a summary of the system.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> This may require more chat and discussion on list or on slack and
>>>> then development of a structure of content before you can really get a
>>>> design.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Thank you again.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> James Dailey
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:04 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Hello James,
>>>> >>>>>> Have you reviewed the website frame. Please share the feedback.
>>>> >>>>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb, 2023, 6:09 pm Meta Cyrus, <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Javier,
>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback. The points you mentioned, I'll
>>>> implement them as you suggested now what I need is some more brief about
>>>> the topics. This was the just an idea of how it'll look like surely we can
>>>> change and add the things.
>>>> >>>>>>> As you mentioned in the last that it's a template but it's not.
>>>> It's designed by me on the figma and the assets I used are open source so
>>>> their will be no licencing issue. I always go for the development through
>>>> scratch so no need to worry about that.
>>>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>>>>> Inzemam
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb, 2023, 6:01 pm Javier Borkenztain, <
>>>> javier@fiter.io> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Hy Meta,
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Great job; I like the enhancement of the visuals and aesthetic
>>>> in general, and it seems much more modern and suitable for the next stage
>>>> of our community.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> My two cents:
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> It is too linked with banks. Fineract has proved to be useful
>>>> in other areas of the industry, not just banks. We need to convey that
>>>> Fineract is a platform for many use cases. Using a mobile phone and a
>>>> credit card as our visuals will put us in the last 20 years of the
>>>> industry, and we are in the next 20 years. The images we need to use has to
>>>> be conceptual, not rigid on old paradigms.
>>>> >>>>>>>> Fineract is a backend. Fineract will help the financial
>>>> industry transcend from the old paradigm of "save deposit boxes" to the new
>>>> paradigm of "Internet switches," allowing the users of financial
>>>> institutions to move their assets worldwide quickly and safely. All
>>>> purchases are now digital.
>>>> >>>>>>>> Fineract is not Fineract CN, and Fineract CN can not have the
>>>> same exposure on our website as Fineract. Fineract CN it's still an
>>>> experiment while most of our community depends on and uses Fineract. This
>>>> must be clearly shown on the website and the real estate we dedicate to
>>>> each one. Fineract CN wasn't the project incubated originally, and Fineract
>>>> CN is not backward compatible with Fineract.
>>>> >>>>>>>> The project we are proud of: I will only use the project part
>>>> if we get three Fortune 500 companies using Fineract. It will also open a
>>>> new can of worms on which project gets selected and which criteria we
>>>> should use, on top of getting the right set of approvals from them to be
>>>> used as projects.
>>>> >>>>>>>> Last but not least, you used a template for the design. We
>>>> need the license of that template that allows us to use it without
>>>> limitations, and the template license is aligned with Apache 2.0.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Javier
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 8:14 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Below is the drive link of complete page screenshot of APACHE
>>>> FINERACT redesigned website. Please review and let me know if you have any
>>>> questions or changes needed.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alQFhbfPF8J3_a1rTXpKXzqoV54zjasA/view?usp=drivesdk
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Feb, 2023, 9:27 pm James Dailey, <
>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Meta - Any updates from you on this?
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 9:06 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay lemme begin the work.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb, 2023, 10:34 pm James Dailey, <
>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 8:57 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been through the website and got it closely that
>>>> what exact is there on the website. I'll create a static mockup for the
>>>> website.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For the ui/ux part what I am saying is that whether
>>>> anyone new or experienced first comes to the website got confused of what's
>>>> happening and how things are going we can work upon it.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I have a question are we going to implement blogger
>>>> on that website? I have ability to work on static websites where the data
>>>> comes from dynamic CMS.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So I can work on tha too....
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb, 2023, 10:13 pm James Dailey, <
>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq -
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appreciate the response. This is revising our single
>>>> page website for the project, so not an app. The content needs to be
>>>> largely static or to pick up content we regularly post on blog. The current
>>>> site is basic html. Just making sure we’re talking about the same thing.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fineract.Apache.org
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Figma I associate w more complex flows. What’s needed
>>>> is a design lens, in my view. But, a good UIX process does start with
>>>> who’s the audience and what’s their need when they land on the page.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 8:06 PM Meta Cyrus <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First I will create mockup using the figma where we can
>>>> get a better Idea of what exactly has to be happen. By the 16th of Feb I'll
>>>> come up with a design also will share here in the thread and we can get
>>>> comments in the meeting.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll start looking other apache websites and get an
>>>> overall UI/UX
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb, 2023, 6:07 am James Dailey, <
>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All those that volunteered for this - thank you. We
>>>> have four people who said they'd like to be involved.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few tasks that I think may suit this group
>>>> and then we can share back here on list and also hold a meeting on zoom in
>>>> mid February.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Feb 16th?
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, everyone involved should read (or skim) this
>>>> document:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and also look at the current wiki and landing page in
>>>> detail.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed Tasks:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Comment - is the document clear enough or where is
>>>> there a gap in content (Bruce, Tekle? - start a thread about this)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --> also, scan the current wiki and find sections
>>>> you think belong being "brought over". compile a list of those pages. If
>>>> none, great.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Based on my comments above, create a mockup of the
>>>> landing page (Meta Cyrus?)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --> also, scan other Apache projects to find
>>>> landing pages that you like
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Provide a document outline of the high level
>>>> functional description aimed at a Business Leader (Dick Dickson?)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) Generate a new outline for the wiki and post on
>>>> confluence with links (james or ?)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those that volunteered, please comment on this plan.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone else is welcome to join but please follow this
>>>> thread.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 2:39 AM Dick Dickson <
>>>> d@gwocu.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I’d also like to participate in this
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2023, at 02:37, Meta Cyrus <
>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am a good UI/UX and web developer who can Design
>>>> and develop a good user reliable website.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I can start??
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Jan, 2023, 7:23 am James Dailey, <
>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All -
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a lot of good content on the wiki but it's
>>>> been 3+ years since we did a clean sweep of it. We also have a front
>>>> landing page at https://fineract.apache.org that could be better at
>>>> communicating the project and community. Who wants to work on this with me?
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PROPOSED CHANGES
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the front "Landing" page:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Add blog feed
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Add feed to dev list
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Include FAQ
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Split FineractCN and Fineract
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we hope to see a FineractCN release soon, I think
>>>> we should have a top level split on the main page as well, or perhaps a
>>>> separate landing page for FineractCN.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the wiki - new suggested structure (figure out
>>>> how to show two levels):
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FAQ
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About Fineract
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New top level functional descriptions
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About FineractCN
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TBD
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project Management
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quarterly reports to the Apache Board (this needs to
>>>> be more prominent)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Community meetings organized by date (most recent at
>>>> top)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surveys
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Release processes
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do I get involved?
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Committer guides
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Links to JIRA and GitHUB
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Standards
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Replace with links to the new dynamically generated
>>>> documentation.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Move Comms related stuff (talks, opinion pieces,
>>>> etc) ... all go to blog
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there things we should keep or not keep?
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current high level structure:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FAQ (frequently asked questions)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GETTING INVOLVED (commit, contribute)
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FINERACT
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FINERACT CN
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fineract Data, Credit Scoring, AI
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fineract Project Security Report
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> COMMS: Blogs, Talks, and Links
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon EU 2016 Fineract Speaker's Notes
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How-to articles
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCON Fineract Track
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meeting notes
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>>
>>>
Re: How To Spin Up Local Instance
Posted by VICTOR MANUEL ROMERO RODRIGUEZ <vi...@fintecheando.mx>.
Hello,
Fineract is now using Zulu 17 Alpine as as container
https://github.com/apache/fineract/blob/develop/custom/docker/build.gradle
3 months ago I wrote about the Quick (Non production) setup
https://github.com/openMF/mifos-x-containers
Regards
Víctor Romero
El mar, 13 jun 2023 a las 9:37, Rob Tompkins (<ch...@gmail.com>)
escribió:
> I would also wonder where you keep the source that backs the docs so that
> I can contribute there as I work my way through standing up a local env.
>
> Cheers,
> -ROb
>
> On Jun 12, 2023, at 1:36 PM, James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I should have started with:
>
> * This is a question we get a lot - how to get started as a developer
> * The advice we have given is to run Fineract via Docker-compose
>
> So, that should be straightforward and we should make sure this is up to
> date:
> https://hub.docker.com/r/apache/fineract
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 12:11 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think we need more than Docker to get most developers going.
>> Agreed?
>> (let's drop minikube or whatevers)
>>
>> and, what is the base of our current Docker? I proposed Alpine a few
>> years back, but cannot remember what we used. Can we get an update going?
>>
>> the documentation about this should be simple to follow
>>
>> Maybe we just list those other deployment ideas for "other ideas to do" -
>> more of an invitation than something that we support in our documentation.
>>
>> Any objection to those kinds of changes to the documentation ?
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: Website and Wiki for Fineract updates
>> To: <de...@fineract.apache.org>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bruce - Good to know about those gaps in deployment and tools, but are
>> those the only gaps in the documentation?
>>
>> So, question to you: is it already sufficiently clear on these topics:
>> * explaining what the software does
>> * explaining the architecture
>> * explaining relationship between different components
>> * what features are in each release
>> * how to set up development environment
>> * how to access APIs
>> * how to find additional resources
>>
>> I did ask for 3-5 priority things, so please do try to identify where we
>> start, even from your very long list or maybe adding to it, can we get your
>> opinion on a few key things?
>>
>> What would you say is a priority?
>>
>> As a project, I think we need to simply and only offer one or two
>> deployment options in our documentation, that way we can focus on getting
>> those accurate and keeping them up to date. Others are of course free to
>> offer their own improvements and alternatives.
>>
>> All - comments welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> James
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM Bruce <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to share some observations
>>> after going through the documentation for Fineract again.
>>>
>>> While the documentation provides an overview of deployment options here
>>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_deployment , I noticed that
>>> several options, such as Docker Compose, Tomcat, Undertow, Jetty, JBoss,
>>> Weblogic, and Payara, are marked as TBD, indicating a lack of content and
>>> guidance for users. There is also no deployment content on Kubernetes, AWS
>>> and Google Cloud. Let's address this.
>>>
>>> Additionally, the Fineract Development section here
>>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_fineract_development_environment
>>> appears to be incomplete and in need of further content to cover
>>> important topics related to Fineract development. This section also
>>> includes topics marked as "TBD" on the website, such as Docker, Docker
>>> Compose, Podman, Rancher Docker Desktop, IDE selection and configuration
>>> (including IntelliJ, Eclipse, and VSCode), Kubernetes deployment and
>>> management, Minikube, Microk8s, K3d, Helm Charts, and installation and
>>> usage of various development tools like Brew for MacOS and Linux. I
>>> propose that the community contibutes content for the following topics:
>>>
>>>
>>> - Docker: how to install, run, and use Docker containers for
>>> Fineract
>>> - Docker Compose: how to use Docker Compose to orchestrate multiple
>>> containers for Fineract
>>> - Podman: how to use Podman as an alternative to Docker for running
>>> containers
>>> - Rancher Docker Desktop: how to use Rancher Docker Desktop to run
>>> Kubernetes clusters on one's local machine
>>> - IDE: how to choose and configure an IDE for Fineract development
>>> - IntelliJ: how to set up and use IntelliJ IDEA as an IDE for
>>> Fineract
>>> - Eclipse: how to set up and use Eclipse as an IDE for Fineract
>>> - VSCode: how to set up and use VSCode as an IDE for Fineract
>>> - Kubernetes: how to deploy and manage Fineract on Kubernetes
>>> clusters
>>> - Minikube: how to use Minikube to run a local Kubernetes cluster
>>> for Fineract
>>> - Microk8s: how to use Microk8s to run a lightweight Kubernetes
>>> cluster for Fineract
>>> - K3d: how to use K3d to run a Kubernetes cluster in Docker for
>>> Fineract
>>> - Helm Charts: how to use Helm Charts to package and deploy Fineract
>>> applications on Kubernetes
>>> - Tools: how to install and use various tools that can help one with
>>> Fineract development
>>> - Brew: how to install and use Brew for MacOS and Linux
>>>
>>>
>>> By actively addressing these gaps in the documentation, we can provide
>>> valuable support to the Fineract community and further showcase the
>>> flexibility and compatibility of Fineract with different technologies and
>>> platforms.
>>>
>>> I look forward to collaborating with the community to contribute content
>>> for these important topics and improve the overall documentation for
>>> Fineract.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>
>
Re: How To Spin Up Local Instance
Posted by Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com>.
I would also wonder where you keep the source that backs the docs so that I can contribute there as I work my way through standing up a local env.
Cheers,
-ROb
> On Jun 12, 2023, at 1:36 PM, James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I should have started with:
>
> * This is a question we get a lot - how to get started as a developer
> * The advice we have given is to run Fineract via Docker-compose
>
> So, that should be straightforward and we should make sure this is up to date:
> https://hub.docker.com/r/apache/fineract
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 12:11 PM James Dailey <jamespdailey@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I don't think we need more than Docker to get most developers going. Agreed?
>> (let's drop minikube or whatevers)
>>
>> and, what is the base of our current Docker? I proposed Alpine a few years back, but cannot remember what we used. Can we get an update going?
>>
>> the documentation about this should be simple to follow
>>
>> Maybe we just list those other deployment ideas for "other ideas to do" - more of an invitation than something that we support in our documentation.
>>
>> Any objection to those kinds of changes to the documentation ?
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: James Dailey <jamespdailey@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
>> Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: Website and Wiki for Fineract updates
>> To: <dev@fineract.apache.org <ma...@fineract.apache.org>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bruce - Good to know about those gaps in deployment and tools, but are those the only gaps in the documentation?
>>
>> So, question to you: is it already sufficiently clear on these topics:
>> * explaining what the software does
>> * explaining the architecture
>> * explaining relationship between different components
>> * what features are in each release
>> * how to set up development environment
>> * how to access APIs
>> * how to find additional resources
>>
>> I did ask for 3-5 priority things, so please do try to identify where we start, even from your very long list or maybe adding to it, can we get your opinion on a few key things?
>>
>> What would you say is a priority?
>>
>> As a project, I think we need to simply and only offer one or two deployment options in our documentation, that way we can focus on getting those accurate and keeping them up to date. Others are of course free to offer their own improvements and alternatives.
>>
>> All - comments welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> James
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM Bruce <brucetushabe@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to share some observations after going through the documentation for Fineract again.
>>>
>>> While the documentation provides an overview of deployment options here https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_deployment , I noticed that several options, such as Docker Compose, Tomcat, Undertow, Jetty, JBoss, Weblogic, and Payara, are marked as TBD, indicating a lack of content and guidance for users. There is also no deployment content on Kubernetes, AWS and Google Cloud. Let's address this.
>>>
>>> Additionally, the Fineract Development section here https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_fineract_development_environment appears to be incomplete and in need of further content to cover important topics related to Fineract development. This section also includes topics marked as "TBD" on the website, such as Docker, Docker Compose, Podman, Rancher Docker Desktop, IDE selection and configuration (including IntelliJ, Eclipse, and VSCode), Kubernetes deployment and management, Minikube, Microk8s, K3d, Helm Charts, and installation and usage of various development tools like Brew for MacOS and Linux. I propose that the community contibutes content for the following topics:
>>>
>>>
>>> Docker: how to install, run, and use Docker containers for Fineract
>>> Docker Compose: how to use Docker Compose to orchestrate multiple containers for Fineract
>>> Podman: how to use Podman as an alternative to Docker for running containers
>>> Rancher Docker Desktop: how to use Rancher Docker Desktop to run Kubernetes clusters on one's local machine
>>> IDE: how to choose and configure an IDE for Fineract development
>>> IntelliJ: how to set up and use IntelliJ IDEA as an IDE for Fineract
>>> Eclipse: how to set up and use Eclipse as an IDE for Fineract
>>> VSCode: how to set up and use VSCode as an IDE for Fineract
>>> Kubernetes: how to deploy and manage Fineract on Kubernetes clusters
>>> Minikube: how to use Minikube to run a local Kubernetes cluster for Fineract
>>> Microk8s: how to use Microk8s to run a lightweight Kubernetes cluster for Fineract
>>> K3d: how to use K3d to run a Kubernetes cluster in Docker for Fineract
>>> Helm Charts: how to use Helm Charts to package and deploy Fineract applications on Kubernetes
>>> Tools: how to install and use various tools that can help one with Fineract development
>>> Brew: how to install and use Brew for MacOS and Linux
>>>
>>> By actively addressing these gaps in the documentation, we can provide valuable support to the Fineract community and further showcase the flexibility and compatibility of Fineract with different technologies and platforms.
>>>
>>> I look forward to collaborating with the community to contribute content for these important topics and improve the overall documentation for Fineract.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
Re: How To Spin Up Local Instance
Posted by James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>.
I should have started with:
* This is a question we get a lot - how to get started as a developer
* The advice we have given is to run Fineract via Docker-compose
So, that should be straightforward and we should make sure this is up to
date:
https://hub.docker.com/r/apache/fineract
On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 12:11 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't think we need more than Docker to get most developers going.
> Agreed?
> (let's drop minikube or whatevers)
>
> and, what is the base of our current Docker? I proposed Alpine a few
> years back, but cannot remember what we used. Can we get an update going?
>
> the documentation about this should be simple to follow
>
> Maybe we just list those other deployment ideas for "other ideas to do" -
> more of an invitation than something that we support in our documentation.
>
> Any objection to those kinds of changes to the documentation ?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Website and Wiki for Fineract updates
> To: <de...@fineract.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi Bruce - Good to know about those gaps in deployment and tools, but are
> those the only gaps in the documentation?
>
> So, question to you: is it already sufficiently clear on these topics:
> * explaining what the software does
> * explaining the architecture
> * explaining relationship between different components
> * what features are in each release
> * how to set up development environment
> * how to access APIs
> * how to find additional resources
>
> I did ask for 3-5 priority things, so please do try to identify where we
> start, even from your very long list or maybe adding to it, can we get your
> opinion on a few key things?
>
> What would you say is a priority?
>
> As a project, I think we need to simply and only offer one or two
> deployment options in our documentation, that way we can focus on getting
> those accurate and keeping them up to date. Others are of course free to
> offer their own improvements and alternatives.
>
> All - comments welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM Bruce <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to share some observations
>> after going through the documentation for Fineract again.
>>
>> While the documentation provides an overview of deployment options here
>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_deployment , I noticed that
>> several options, such as Docker Compose, Tomcat, Undertow, Jetty, JBoss,
>> Weblogic, and Payara, are marked as TBD, indicating a lack of content and
>> guidance for users. There is also no deployment content on Kubernetes, AWS
>> and Google Cloud. Let's address this.
>>
>> Additionally, the Fineract Development section here
>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_fineract_development_environment
>> appears to be incomplete and in need of further content to cover
>> important topics related to Fineract development. This section also
>> includes topics marked as "TBD" on the website, such as Docker, Docker
>> Compose, Podman, Rancher Docker Desktop, IDE selection and configuration
>> (including IntelliJ, Eclipse, and VSCode), Kubernetes deployment and
>> management, Minikube, Microk8s, K3d, Helm Charts, and installation and
>> usage of various development tools like Brew for MacOS and Linux. I
>> propose that the community contibutes content for the following topics:
>>
>>
>> - Docker: how to install, run, and use Docker containers for Fineract
>> - Docker Compose: how to use Docker Compose to orchestrate multiple
>> containers for Fineract
>> - Podman: how to use Podman as an alternative to Docker for running
>> containers
>> - Rancher Docker Desktop: how to use Rancher Docker Desktop to run
>> Kubernetes clusters on one's local machine
>> - IDE: how to choose and configure an IDE for Fineract development
>> - IntelliJ: how to set up and use IntelliJ IDEA as an IDE for Fineract
>> - Eclipse: how to set up and use Eclipse as an IDE for Fineract
>> - VSCode: how to set up and use VSCode as an IDE for Fineract
>> - Kubernetes: how to deploy and manage Fineract on Kubernetes clusters
>> - Minikube: how to use Minikube to run a local Kubernetes cluster for
>> Fineract
>> - Microk8s: how to use Microk8s to run a lightweight Kubernetes
>> cluster for Fineract
>> - K3d: how to use K3d to run a Kubernetes cluster in Docker for
>> Fineract
>> - Helm Charts: how to use Helm Charts to package and deploy Fineract
>> applications on Kubernetes
>> - Tools: how to install and use various tools that can help one with
>> Fineract development
>> - Brew: how to install and use Brew for MacOS and Linux
>>
>> By actively addressing these gaps in the documentation, we can provide
>> valuable support to the Fineract community and further showcase the
>> flexibility and compatibility of Fineract with different technologies and
>> platforms.
>>
>> I look forward to collaborating with the community to contribute content
>> for these important topics and improve the overall documentation for
>> Fineract.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
Re: How To Spin Up Local Instance
Posted by John Gathogo <jo...@fiter.io>.
I support this 💯, docker should be the recommended (and supported)
deployment method. A financial institution interested in the other
deployment methods should have capacity to deploy and support them.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 10:11 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't think we need more than Docker to get most developers going.
> Agreed?
> (let's drop minikube or whatevers)
>
> and, what is the base of our current Docker? I proposed Alpine a few
> years back, but cannot remember what we used. Can we get an update going?
>
> the documentation about this should be simple to follow
>
> Maybe we just list those other deployment ideas for "other ideas to do" -
> more of an invitation than something that we support in our documentation.
>
> Any objection to those kinds of changes to the documentation ?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Website and Wiki for Fineract updates
> To: <de...@fineract.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi Bruce - Good to know about those gaps in deployment and tools, but are
> those the only gaps in the documentation?
>
> So, question to you: is it already sufficiently clear on these topics:
> * explaining what the software does
> * explaining the architecture
> * explaining relationship between different components
> * what features are in each release
> * how to set up development environment
> * how to access APIs
> * how to find additional resources
>
> I did ask for 3-5 priority things, so please do try to identify where we
> start, even from your very long list or maybe adding to it, can we get your
> opinion on a few key things?
>
> What would you say is a priority?
>
> As a project, I think we need to simply and only offer one or two
> deployment options in our documentation, that way we can focus on getting
> those accurate and keeping them up to date. Others are of course free to
> offer their own improvements and alternatives.
>
> All - comments welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM Bruce <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to share some observations
>> after going through the documentation for Fineract again.
>>
>> While the documentation provides an overview of deployment options here
>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_deployment , I noticed that
>> several options, such as Docker Compose, Tomcat, Undertow, Jetty, JBoss,
>> Weblogic, and Payara, are marked as TBD, indicating a lack of content and
>> guidance for users. There is also no deployment content on Kubernetes, AWS
>> and Google Cloud. Let's address this.
>>
>> Additionally, the Fineract Development section here
>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/#_fineract_development_environment
>> appears to be incomplete and in need of further content to cover
>> important topics related to Fineract development. This section also
>> includes topics marked as "TBD" on the website, such as Docker, Docker
>> Compose, Podman, Rancher Docker Desktop, IDE selection and configuration
>> (including IntelliJ, Eclipse, and VSCode), Kubernetes deployment and
>> management, Minikube, Microk8s, K3d, Helm Charts, and installation and
>> usage of various development tools like Brew for MacOS and Linux. I
>> propose that the community contibutes content for the following topics:
>>
>>
>> - Docker: how to install, run, and use Docker containers for Fineract
>> - Docker Compose: how to use Docker Compose to orchestrate multiple
>> containers for Fineract
>> - Podman: how to use Podman as an alternative to Docker for running
>> containers
>> - Rancher Docker Desktop: how to use Rancher Docker Desktop to run
>> Kubernetes clusters on one's local machine
>> - IDE: how to choose and configure an IDE for Fineract development
>> - IntelliJ: how to set up and use IntelliJ IDEA as an IDE for Fineract
>> - Eclipse: how to set up and use Eclipse as an IDE for Fineract
>> - VSCode: how to set up and use VSCode as an IDE for Fineract
>> - Kubernetes: how to deploy and manage Fineract on Kubernetes clusters
>> - Minikube: how to use Minikube to run a local Kubernetes cluster for
>> Fineract
>> - Microk8s: how to use Microk8s to run a lightweight Kubernetes
>> cluster for Fineract
>> - K3d: how to use K3d to run a Kubernetes cluster in Docker for
>> Fineract
>> - Helm Charts: how to use Helm Charts to package and deploy Fineract
>> applications on Kubernetes
>> - Tools: how to install and use various tools that can help one with
>> Fineract development
>> - Brew: how to install and use Brew for MacOS and Linux
>>
>> By actively addressing these gaps in the documentation, we can provide
>> valuable support to the Fineract community and further showcase the
>> flexibility and compatibility of Fineract with different technologies and
>> platforms.
>>
>> I look forward to collaborating with the community to contribute content
>> for these important topics and improve the overall documentation for
>> Fineract.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 10:03 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Meta or Bruce - any updates?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 11:17 PM Meta Cyrus <in...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep I'll be sharing the new design in which I hage taken care of all
>>>> the previous points you and others mentioned..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 23 Mar, 2023, 6:29 am James Dailey, <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've started to change some of the structure of the wiki. I'm just
>>>>> trying to clean it up: Does anyone have an objection?
>>>>>
>>>>> * Noting where content is historical and deprecating it
>>>>> * Moving the Quarterly PMC reports to slightly more prominence
>>>>>
>>>>> This is incremental.
>>>>>
>>>>> Inzemam - can you provide a new design to review taking on the
>>>>> feedback?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 11:37 AM Meta Cyrus <in...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Okay I'll be looking into it..
>>>>> > Also I am looking forward for GSOC'23 for MIFOS too in the frontend
>>>>> fields. Surely working effectively with both the orgs by making good
>>>>> designs with premium feel.
>>>>> > Regards,
>>>>> > Inzemam
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, 10 Mar, 2023, 1:03 am James Dailey, <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Please make a set of suggestions or revise your designs based on
>>>>> input.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Feel free to dive into this .
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 9:54 AM Meta Cyrus <in...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Hello James,
>>>>> >>> When we are going to start the work or are we leaving it for
>>>>> future?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Regards,
>>>>> >>> Inzemam
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Sun, 26 Feb, 2023, 7:40 am Meta Cyrus, <in...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Hi James,
>>>>> >>>> You are correct that we need to discuss more on the flows of
>>>>> events and placements. And I am also agree with the point that we can
>>>>> create a slack channel for this.
>>>>> >>>> Also the code will be in simple html, css and js format so anyone
>>>>> can create/change the things easily. The design is looking fancy and
>>>>> complicated but the code is as smooth as butter. So need to worry about
>>>>> maintainance.
>>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Sun, 26 Feb, 2023, 1:35 am James Dailey, <
>>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Hi - Thank you for this.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> It's a very good conversation starter. I agreed with most of
>>>>> Javier's comments, which makes clear that we need to do a better job of
>>>>> "Explaining" and "Positioning".
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> ASIDE: Javier - I invite you to write more such text and
>>>>> provide a top level set of bullet points that can be perhaps worked into
>>>>> the content.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> I think that the design colors are ok, the blue is appropriate
>>>>> for a financial system, meaning steady and trustworthy on the color wheel.
>>>>> Nice.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> We need more revamping of the content before we can properly do
>>>>> this design, so let's try to attack that problem.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Here is a requirement that may not be clear to you:
>>>>> >>>>> * Site should be very simple, easy to change by anyone opening
>>>>> up a Text Editor and modifying the HTML directly. e.g. use CSS styles and
>>>>> hopefully with names that make sense
>>>>> >>>>> * Assume that you are gone and someone else has to modify just
>>>>> some text areas, adding content in specific sections.
>>>>> >>>>> * Assume that no-one touches the website for over a year, maybe
>>>>> three years, and avoid content that can get stale.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Message and Content issues:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> * Fineract is part of Apache and this is not always clear from
>>>>> the page today. Also, there is a common set of links and structure that you
>>>>> can find in other Apache projects. It is not a requirement to follow other
>>>>> Apache projects, but it would be useful to review them for commonalities:
>>>>> >>>>> --> https://hadoop.apache.org
>>>>> >>>>> --> https://airflow.apache.org
>>>>> >>>>> --> https://kafka.apache.org
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> * Note Community is there in each project. Check out the
>>>>> content that each project has.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> * Key tasks should be up top : Learn more, Help, Download
>>>>> >>>>> and this should then flow into the requirements for the other
>>>>> sections on the front page and then onto the wiki structure that we need
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> * At this time Fineract-CN should probably not receive equal
>>>>> billing as the Fineract1.x releases it is still trying to get to a first
>>>>> release and fineract1.x is releasing on a regular basis with lots of
>>>>> activity. So, move Fineract-CN to a bottom section that's something about
>>>>> "Additional community technologies"
>>>>> >>>>> I was and am a big fan of this framework, and I know this
>>>>> positioning is controversial for some, but until we get a release out and
>>>>> lots of active development and deployments, that project remains very much
>>>>> a side project of the community. It may become a very important thing, but
>>>>> for now we should reflect the reality which is that Fineract1.x is where
>>>>> the vast majority of the dev is going on, and the vast majority of the
>>>>> users are there.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> * We need to emphasize the key features of Fineract - there
>>>>> should be a summary of the system.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> This may require more chat and discussion on list or on slack
>>>>> and then development of a structure of content before you can really get a
>>>>> design.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Thank you again.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> James Dailey
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:04 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Hello James,
>>>>> >>>>>> Have you reviewed the website frame. Please share the feedback.
>>>>> >>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb, 2023, 6:09 pm Meta Cyrus, <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Javier,
>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback. The points you mentioned, I'll
>>>>> implement them as you suggested now what I need is some more brief about
>>>>> the topics. This was the just an idea of how it'll look like surely we can
>>>>> change and add the things.
>>>>> >>>>>>> As you mentioned in the last that it's a template but it's
>>>>> not. It's designed by me on the figma and the assets I used are open source
>>>>> so their will be no licencing issue. I always go for the development
>>>>> through scratch so no need to worry about that.
>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>>>>> Inzemam
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb, 2023, 6:01 pm Javier Borkenztain, <
>>>>> javier@fiter.io> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hy Meta,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great job; I like the enhancement of the visuals and
>>>>> aesthetic in general, and it seems much more modern and suitable for the
>>>>> next stage of our community.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> My two cents:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is too linked with banks. Fineract has proved to be useful
>>>>> in other areas of the industry, not just banks. We need to convey that
>>>>> Fineract is a platform for many use cases. Using a mobile phone and a
>>>>> credit card as our visuals will put us in the last 20 years of the
>>>>> industry, and we are in the next 20 years. The images we need to use has to
>>>>> be conceptual, not rigid on old paradigms.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fineract is a backend. Fineract will help the financial
>>>>> industry transcend from the old paradigm of "save deposit boxes" to the new
>>>>> paradigm of "Internet switches," allowing the users of financial
>>>>> institutions to move their assets worldwide quickly and safely. All
>>>>> purchases are now digital.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fineract is not Fineract CN, and Fineract CN can not have the
>>>>> same exposure on our website as Fineract. Fineract CN it's still an
>>>>> experiment while most of our community depends on and uses Fineract. This
>>>>> must be clearly shown on the website and the real estate we dedicate to
>>>>> each one. Fineract CN wasn't the project incubated originally, and Fineract
>>>>> CN is not backward compatible with Fineract.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> The project we are proud of: I will only use the project part
>>>>> if we get three Fortune 500 companies using Fineract. It will also open a
>>>>> new can of worms on which project gets selected and which criteria we
>>>>> should use, on top of getting the right set of approvals from them to be
>>>>> used as projects.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Last but not least, you used a template for the design. We
>>>>> need the license of that template that allows us to use it without
>>>>> limitations, and the template license is aligned with Apache 2.0.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Javier
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 8:14 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Below is the drive link of complete page screenshot of
>>>>> APACHE FINERACT redesigned website. Please review and let me know if you
>>>>> have any questions or changes needed.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alQFhbfPF8J3_a1rTXpKXzqoV54zjasA/view?usp=drivesdk
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Feb, 2023, 9:27 pm James Dailey, <
>>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Meta - Any updates from you on this?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 9:06 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay lemme begin the work.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb, 2023, 10:34 pm James Dailey, <
>>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 8:57 AM Meta Cyrus <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been through the website and got it closely that
>>>>> what exact is there on the website. I'll create a static mockup for the
>>>>> website.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For the ui/ux part what I am saying is that whether
>>>>> anyone new or experienced first comes to the website got confused of what's
>>>>> happening and how things are going we can work upon it.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I have a question are we going to implement blogger
>>>>> on that website? I have ability to work on static websites where the data
>>>>> comes from dynamic CMS.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So I can work on tha too....
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb, 2023, 10:13 pm James Dailey, <
>>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq -
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appreciate the response. This is revising our single
>>>>> page website for the project, so not an app. The content needs to be
>>>>> largely static or to pick up content we regularly post on blog. The current
>>>>> site is basic html. Just making sure we’re talking about the same thing.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fineract.Apache.org
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Figma I associate w more complex flows. What’s needed
>>>>> is a design lens, in my view. But, a good UIX process does start with
>>>>> who’s the audience and what’s their need when they land on the page.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 8:06 PM Meta Cyrus <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First I will create mockup using the figma where we
>>>>> can get a better Idea of what exactly has to be happen. By the 16th of Feb
>>>>> I'll come up with a design also will share here in the thread and we can
>>>>> get comments in the meeting.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll start looking other apache websites and get an
>>>>> overall UI/UX
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb, 2023, 6:07 am James Dailey, <
>>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All those that volunteered for this - thank you. We
>>>>> have four people who said they'd like to be involved.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few tasks that I think may suit this group
>>>>> and then we can share back here on list and also hold a meeting on zoom in
>>>>> mid February.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Feb 16th?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, everyone involved should read (or skim) this
>>>>> document:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://fineract.apache.org/docs/current/
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and also look at the current wiki and landing page in
>>>>> detail.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed Tasks:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Comment - is the document clear enough or where is
>>>>> there a gap in content (Bruce, Tekle? - start a thread about this)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --> also, scan the current wiki and find
>>>>> sections you think belong being "brought over". compile a list of those
>>>>> pages. If none, great.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Based on my comments above, create a mockup of the
>>>>> landing page (Meta Cyrus?)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --> also, scan other Apache projects to find
>>>>> landing pages that you like
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Provide a document outline of the high level
>>>>> functional description aimed at a Business Leader (Dick Dickson?)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) Generate a new outline for the wiki and post on
>>>>> confluence with links (james or ?)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those that volunteered, please comment on this plan.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone else is welcome to join but please follow this
>>>>> thread.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 2:39 AM Dick Dickson <
>>>>> d@gwocu.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I’d also like to participate in this
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2023, at 02:37, Meta Cyrus <
>>>>> inzemamhaq05@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am a good UI/UX and web developer who can Design
>>>>> and develop a good user reliable website.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I can start??
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inzemamul Haq
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Jan, 2023, 7:23 am James Dailey, <
>>>>> jamespdailey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All -
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a lot of good content on the wiki but it's
>>>>> been 3+ years since we did a clean sweep of it. We also have a front
>>>>> landing page at https://fineract.apache.org that could be better at
>>>>> communicating the project and community. Who wants to work on this with me?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PROPOSED CHANGES
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the front "Landing" page:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Add blog feed
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Add feed to dev list
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Include FAQ
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Split FineractCN and Fineract
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we hope to see a FineractCN release soon, I
>>>>> think we should have a top level split on the main page as well, or perhaps
>>>>> a separate landing page for FineractCN.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the wiki - new suggested structure (figure out
>>>>> how to show two levels):
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FAQ
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About Fineract
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New top level functional descriptions
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About FineractCN
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TBD
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project Management
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quarterly reports to the Apache Board (this needs
>>>>> to be more prominent)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Community meetings organized by date (most recent
>>>>> at top)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surveys
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Release processes
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do I get involved?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Committer guides
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Links to JIRA and GitHUB
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Standards
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Replace with links to the new dynamically generated
>>>>> documentation.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Move Comms related stuff (talks, opinion pieces,
>>>>> etc) ... all go to blog
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there things we should keep or not keep?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current high level structure:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FAQ (frequently asked questions)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GETTING INVOLVED (commit, contribute)
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FINERACT
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FINERACT CN
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fineract Data, Credit Scoring, AI
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fineract Project Security Report
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> COMMS: Blogs, Talks, and Links
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon EU 2016 Fineract Speaker's Notes
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How-to articles
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCON Fineract Track
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meeting notes
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>>>
>>>>