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Posted to dev@directory.apache.org by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net> on 2004/12/27 19:33:25 UTC

[VOTE] Directory project releases

Hello,

We at the Directory Project (under incubation here, 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to release 
from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall release artifacts 
if this vote passes are listed below with a release version, a short 
description, and a link if more information is needed to partake in this 
vote:


eve (0.8)
   - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html

ldap (0.8)
  - common LDAP libraries
  - 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html

naming (0.8)
  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
  - 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html

janus (0.2)
  - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html

snickers (0.2)
  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime 
(ASN.1 runtime)
  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html

kerberos (0.4)
  - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html

seda (0.2)
  - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html


We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned code, 
the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard NOTICE.txt in 
accordance with incubation policies regarding releases.  All release 
artifacts also are maven generated artifacts whose group IDs are set to 
incubator-directory to clearly show the code's incubation status. 

On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a vote 
to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under the the 
Directory  umbrella:

[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
[ ] -1 Reject the request to release
[ ] +0 Abstain

Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
The Directory Project Team


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> -1  The incubator status file does not reflect any progress towards
>     clearing the IP (you MUST update that file).
>
> Furthermore, the release artifacts use names that are trademarked and in
> use by other projects.  Some questions need to be answered, while others
> require a rename:
>
>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that library
>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
> merely  use
>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?


It merely uses the architecture.  The name of the architecture in his 
thesis is SEDA,
so there is some blurriness here.  I.e. what is product and what is 
architecture.

>
>   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
> cannot
>      legally distribute software under that name.

:/ Didn't know that.

>
>   3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
>      actively defended it in other contexts:
>       
> <http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.
>      Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
> one
>      software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of 
> risk  to
>      be used as the name of an Apache product.

Agreed.  Doesn't it also have use in the financial industry?

>   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended and
>      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more  
> than
>      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.

As people "snicker" in the background.  It always struck me as somewhat odd.
Can we stay away from "cute" names?  I know its less sexy to call something
BERencoder than it is to call it Snickers, but sometimes at the end of 
the day
you just want something you can release without any headaches.

>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
> software
>      under that name.

Can we at least say it is our implementation of the Kerberos authentication
system?

> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.


I'm pretty sure there wasn't anything intentional, although I have to wonder
what tools are readily available to discover these things.

-- 

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
                - Rich Cook


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Enrique Rodriguez wrote:
>
>> Regarding "snickers," I like the simple (boring) descriptive names, 
>> so I'd go with "Apache ASN.1 Library" and asn1 for a package name.
>>
>> For point of reference Bouncy Castle uses org.bouncycastle.asn1, 
>> along with numerous other Java ASN.1 codecs.
>
>
> Excellent points! I'll go ahead and rename all the snickers stuff now 
> if no one else has any objections.
>
> Alex
>
>
none from here


-- 

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
                - Rich Cook


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Enrique Rodriguez wrote:

> Regarding "snickers," I like the simple (boring) descriptive names, so 
> I'd go with "Apache ASN.1 Library" and asn1 for a package name.
>
> For point of reference Bouncy Castle uses org.bouncycastle.asn1, along 
> with numerous other Java ASN.1 codecs.

Excellent points! I'll go ahead and rename all the snickers stuff now if 
no one else has any objections.

Alex



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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Enrique Rodriguez wrote:

> Regarding "snickers," I like the simple (boring) descriptive names, so 
> I'd go with "Apache ASN.1 Library" and asn1 for a package name.
>
> For point of reference Bouncy Castle uses org.bouncycastle.asn1, along 
> with numerous other Java ASN.1 codecs.

Excellent points! I'll go ahead and rename all the snickers stuff now if 
no one else has any objections.

Alex



Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>.
Regarding "snickers," I like the simple (boring) descriptive names, so 
I'd go with "Apache ASN.1 Library" and asn1 for a package name.

For point of reference Bouncy Castle uses org.bouncycastle.asn1, along 
with numerous other Java ASN.1 codecs.

-enrique


Alex Karasulu wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:16, Alex Karasulu wrote:


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>.
Regarding "snickers," I like the simple (boring) descriptive names, so 
I'd go with "Apache ASN.1 Library" and asn1 for a package name.

For point of reference Bouncy Castle uses org.bouncycastle.asn1, along 
with numerous other Java ASN.1 codecs.

-enrique


Alex Karasulu wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:16, Alex Karasulu wrote:


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Trustin Lee <tr...@gmail.com>.
Roy, how do you think about the name MINA?  I think you saw the
question I posted a couple of days ago.  I need your advice, too. :)

Thanks in advance.

Trustin

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:29:19 -0800, Roy T. Fielding <fi...@gbiv.com> wrote:
> > Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> >> Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named
> >> after him in 1966.
> >> http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
> >>
> >> The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to
> >> regain control of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem
> >> to go after every use of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark
> >> issue;
> >> http://www.janus-software.com/
> >> http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
> >> http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
> >> http://www.janusassociates.com/
> >> http://www.janusdevelopment.com/
> 
> No, that is not how trademark law works. It doesn't matter how common
> the
> name may be -- what matters is whether the name is distinctive within a
> given category of use (keeping in mind that these folks are on the
> Internet
> as well) such that they may have grounds for filing suit on the basis
> of us
> confusing their consumers.  I didn't say that they would need to win
> that suit.
> 
> My point was that the Janus name, like those of all Greek/Roman gods,
> is already being used by a dozen or so software projects, including some
> open source ones, in addition to there being a wealthy litigation firm
> concerned about use of the name on the Internet.
> 
> Using Janus as a name for a new product is therefore unwise.
> 
> ....Roy
> 
> 
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> 


-- 
what we call human nature is actually human habit
--
http://gleamynode.net/

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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>> Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named 
>> after him in 1966.
>> http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
>>
>> The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to 
>> regain control of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem 
>> to go after every use of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark 
>> issue;
>> http://www.janus-software.com/
>> http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
>> http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
>> http://www.janusassociates.com/
>> http://www.janusdevelopment.com/

No, that is not how trademark law works. It doesn't matter how common 
the
name may be -- what matters is whether the name is distinctive within a
given category of use (keeping in mind that these folks are on the 
Internet
as well) such that they may have grounds for filing suit on the basis 
of us
confusing their consumers.  I didn't say that they would need to win 
that suit.

My point was that the Janus name, like those of all Greek/Roman gods,
is already being used by a dozen or so software projects, including some
open source ones, in addition to there being a wealthy litigation firm
concerned about use of the name on the Internet.

Using Janus as a name for a new product is therefore unwise.

....Roy


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>> Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named 
>> after him in 1966.
>> http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
>>
>> The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to 
>> regain control of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem 
>> to go after every use of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark 
>> issue;
>> http://www.janus-software.com/
>> http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
>> http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
>> http://www.janusassociates.com/
>> http://www.janusdevelopment.com/

No, that is not how trademark law works. It doesn't matter how common 
the
name may be -- what matters is whether the name is distinctive within a
given category of use (keeping in mind that these folks are on the 
Internet
as well) such that they may have grounds for filing suit on the basis 
of us
confusing their consumers.  I didn't say that they would need to win 
that suit.

My point was that the Janus name, like those of all Greek/Roman gods,
is already being used by a dozen or so software projects, including some
open source ones, in addition to there being a wealthy litigation firm
concerned about use of the name on the Internet.

Using Janus as a name for a new product is therefore unwise.

....Roy


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:

>On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:16, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>  
>
>>>  3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
>>>     actively defended it in other contexts:
>>>     
>>><http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.
>>>      
>>>
>>Youch!
>>
>>    
>>
>>>     Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
>>>one
>>>     software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of
>>>risk  to
>>>     be used as the name of an Apache product.
>>>      
>>>
>>This is just trouble! I agree.  Let's just quickly find another name for
>>this.  Any recommendations would be welcome.
>>    
>>
>
>Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named after him 
>in 1966.
>http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
>
>The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to regain control 
>of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem to go after every use 
>of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark issue;
>http://www.janus-software.com/
>http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
>http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
>http://www.janusassociates.com/
>http://www.janusdevelopment.com/
>  
>
Yes I carefully reread the link myself and agree.  Janus seems ok after 
all.  I think its very easy to get scared looking at something with 
litigation written all over it. 

I think we better wait for some official legal advice on this.  
Meanwhile we're in limbo.  Too bad I wanted a release out before the new 
year :(. 

Alex



Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:

>On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:16, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>  
>
>>>  3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
>>>     actively defended it in other contexts:
>>>     
>>><http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.
>>>      
>>>
>>Youch!
>>
>>    
>>
>>>     Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
>>>one
>>>     software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of
>>>risk  to
>>>     be used as the name of an Apache product.
>>>      
>>>
>>This is just trouble! I agree.  Let's just quickly find another name for
>>this.  Any recommendations would be welcome.
>>    
>>
>
>Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named after him 
>in 1966.
>http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
>
>The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to regain control 
>of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem to go after every use 
>of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark issue;
>http://www.janus-software.com/
>http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
>http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
>http://www.janusassociates.com/
>http://www.janusdevelopment.com/
>  
>
Yes I carefully reread the link myself and agree.  Janus seems ok after 
all.  I think its very easy to get scared looking at something with 
litigation written all over it. 

I think we better wait for some official legal advice on this.  
Meanwhile we're in limbo.  Too bad I wanted a release out before the new 
year :(. 

Alex



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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Vincent Tence wrote:

> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>
>>
>> Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named 
>> after him in 1966.
>> http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
>>
>> The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to 
>> regain control of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem 
>> to go after every use of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark 
>> issue;
>> http://www.janus-software.com/
>> http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
>> http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
>> http://www.janusassociates.com/
>> http://www.janusdevelopment.com/
>>
>> and endless others.
>>
>> Niclas
>
>
> Keeping Janus would be best. Otherwise, AAA is too hard to pronounce, 
> maybe "triplea" would be better. In fact, any name easy to pronounce 
> and remember would do it for me.
>
I like the name Janus too.  If we can keep it that would be great 
unfortunately this is going to make too many of the final decision 
makers uncomfortable.  Legally we're probably fine (again after looking 
into Niclas' points) but again that's ultimately up to the ASF legal 
folks. 


If you feel strongly about keeping the name you might want to continue 
lobbying for it but be prepared to delay a release and possibly have to 
concede to a rename based on what a lawyer or ASF Incubator PMC may 
finally say.  Ultimately it is their call.  The same goes for names like 
Eve.  We can release different parts of directory separately in the 
meantime to accomodate.  However if you yourself think this is not worth 
the time and energy then let's swiftly rename things and forge ahead.  
Let us know what you want to do and we can change our plans for this 
release accordingly.


snickers -> asn1 renamed
=================

Now for the record Snickers is a lost cause.  I really like the name for 
the Snacc4J replacement - its was catchy but there was no way in hell we 
could hold on to that.  It was a bummer but I should have seen it 
comming when Rob named it that.  Anyway I already completed the 
snickers->asn1 rename for packages and projects.  I shall update the 
site in a few minutes as well to reflect the changes.

Alex




Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Vincent Tence <vt...@videotron.ca>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 
> Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named after him 
> in 1966.
> http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
> 
> The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to regain control 
> of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem to go after every use 
> of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark issue;
> http://www.janus-software.com/
> http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
> http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
> http://www.janusassociates.com/
> http://www.janusdevelopment.com/
> 
> and endless others.
> 
> Niclas

Keeping Janus would be best. Otherwise, AAA is too hard to pronounce, 
maybe "triplea" would be better. In fact, any name easy to pronounce and 
remember would do it for me.


- Vincent


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:16, Alex Karasulu wrote:
> >   3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
> >      actively defended it in other contexts:
> >      
> > <http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.
>
> Youch!
>
> >      Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
> > one
> >      software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of
> > risk  to
> >      be used as the name of an Apache product.
>
> This is just trouble! I agree.  Let's just quickly find another name for
> this.  Any recommendations would be welcome.

Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named after him 
in 1966.
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus

The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to regain control 
of such domain name. Janus Capital Group does not seem to go after every use 
of Janus, so it is not a matter of trademark issue;
http://www.janus-software.com/
http://www-odp.tamu.edu/database/
http://www.janus-eu.org/Temp2/index-f.htm
http://www.janusassociates.com/
http://www.janusdevelopment.com/

and endless others.

Niclas
-- 
   +------//-------------------+
  / http://www.dpml.net       /
 / http://niclas.hedhman.org / 
+------//-------------------+


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> On Dec 27, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
>> Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a 
>> few things.  The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an 
>> online service for looking up trademarks.  We were told this service 
>> should be used to determine if there were any infringements with 
>> project names.  I personally used the service for two of the names 
>> cited in the items below.
>
>
> We normally start with that and also do a Google search.

Yep Google seems to be a better source than the U.S. PTO these days.

>
>> According to the ASF the existance of any trademark alone was not an 
>> issue.  For there to be an infringement the trademark would have to 
>> fall within the same field and domain where the names also match 
>> exactly.  In the case of the Eve Directory Server for example, the 
>> presence of a trademark for "Eve Online", an online game would not be 
>> an infringement.  I understand your concern but this is not the same 
>> name. BTW note that "Eve Online" did not exist in 2002 when we first 
>> started using the name Eve Directory Server for this project.
>
>
> Apparently, the same company has a trademark on "EVE" in Europe and 
> they have
> already used it to force a hardware company in the UK to rename their 
> product.
> Here is their Icelandic registration
>     http://www.els.stjr.is/focal/webguard.nsf/key2/br103-2001.html
>
I guess you don't speak Icelandic but it does not take much to interpret 
this as a TM filiing.  The English button does not seem to work at 
getting a translation of this record.  I gathered it was the same 
company mostly from the logo.  Damn!  Depressing as it is we have to 
change the name.

>> From the language and terms on the incubator site I was completely 
>> under the impression that this kind of name use would not present any 
>> legal issues.
>
>
> Goal #1 is "do the right thing".  Goal #2 is "protect our assets".

Absolutely!  No one is trying to do the wrong thing obviously.  It's a 
matter of being informed.

>
>>>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that 
>>> library
>>>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
>>>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
>>> merely  use
>>>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?
>>>
>> No there is no relation between our seda package and the SEDA project 
>> on Sourceforge.  We just named this thing, seda because we had no 
>> name for it at the time.  SEDA is what it is as far as the 
>> architecture used.  It's like naming a cat, cat.  I think the SEDA 
>> project on Sourceforge actually calls the respective code with the 
>> same fuction Sandstorm.  SEDA is an acronym used for Staged Event 
>> Driven Architecture as you probably already know.  It was part of 
>> Matt Welsh's doctoral thesis and hence the name and the technology is 
>> not something that can hold a trademark.  At least this is my 
>> understanding - perhaps this can be clarified by legal.
>
>
> Sorry, software products are not named "product" -- they are given 
> names to
> distinguish them from other software.  We do not use other people's 
> existing
> names without their permission because it would confuse everyone, 
> including me.
> [We learned that the hard way with httpd, even though we had permission.]
>
> Matt's toolkit may be code-named Sandstorm, but it is distributed as 
> seda on
> Sourceforge.  You should name it something like "sedakit" (which 
> probably means
> something in another language) or "apseda" (which may be Latin, for 
> all I know).

We can call it that fine: apseda it is.

>> Furthermore the concept of Threads for example was invented by some 
>> OS manufacturer but there are threads implementations all over like 
>> pthreads.  When does it become an infringement?  If we call a SEDA 
>> implementation seda?  See what I mean? Its kind of nebulous here.  
>> I'd like some clarification myself. Regardless I'm totally fine with 
>> changing the name here.
>
>
> I doubt that Matt trademarked the name -- we should simply "do the 
> right thing"
> and avoid confusion.

Yes I will rename it apseda right away.  I don't think people at 
Directory care anymore what things are to be called.  If anyone objects 
to the name let me know.  I will begin renaming this and Eve.  For Eve I 
think we can just call it the Apache Directory server and be done with 
it as well.

<snip/>

>> Snickers is an ASN.1 software library which is a Snacc4J 
>> replacement.  It's obviously not a candy bar.  Do they really have 
>> the right to enforce a Cease and Desist?  This is definately 
>> trademarked by MARS as you say no doubt about that.  We need to 
>> rename this as well but just for clarification how do companies like 
>> this get away with it?
>
>
> They don't need the "right" -- they merely need to avoid a countersuit 
> for
> obstruction.  Because it is a well-established mark and that mark is 
> used on the
> Internet, they can reasonably constrain use of it on websites.  Since the
> name is being used because the real Snickers is a snack, we are 
> actually using
> the trademarked name (not just any name) and we would lose.

Yep no arguments here I changed the name but just had to ask.  You have 
to admit it was cute and we were having fun with it and the play on 
snacc4j.  But this is not what we are about - we shall just focus on the 
substance from now on.

> In general, a good rule of thumb is to walk gingerly around companies who
> employ teams of lawyers for the purpose of protecting their marks.  It 
> simply
> doesn't matter why we *might* win such a suit, since the suit alone 
> would be
> enough to bury our little foundation in debt.

Of course Roy you are absolutely right. 

>>>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
>>> software
>>>      under that name.
>>
>>
>> No trademark is registered with Kerberos as far as I can see.  Also 
>> looks like Enrique performed some similar searches and found:
>>
>> "The USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to 
>> trademark Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published 
>> articles up until the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but 
>> this is not the case. "
>
>
> Okay, sorry that I didn't see the abandoned bit.  Once the STATUS file 
> is updated
> (be sure to update the table entries for the IP stuff), I have no 
> objection to
> releasing the non-trademarked name products.

Excellent!

Overall we will respond to this advice immediately, to apply it and 
forge ahead.  Thanks for your dilligence on these matters.  If we do not 
confront them now it will only get uglier down the road.  As for now 
could you please take the time to reassess the second vote for the 
release of naming, asn1 (formerly known as Snickers) and the ldap-common 
library?  I think we have responded well to your recommendations for 
these items.

Thanks,
Alex



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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> On Dec 27, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
>> Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a 
>> few things.  The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an 
>> online service for looking up trademarks.  We were told this service 
>> should be used to determine if there were any infringements with 
>> project names.  I personally used the service for two of the names 
>> cited in the items below.
>
>
> We normally start with that and also do a Google search.

Yep Google seems to be a better source than the U.S. PTO these days.

>
>> According to the ASF the existance of any trademark alone was not an 
>> issue.  For there to be an infringement the trademark would have to 
>> fall within the same field and domain where the names also match 
>> exactly.  In the case of the Eve Directory Server for example, the 
>> presence of a trademark for "Eve Online", an online game would not be 
>> an infringement.  I understand your concern but this is not the same 
>> name. BTW note that "Eve Online" did not exist in 2002 when we first 
>> started using the name Eve Directory Server for this project.
>
>
> Apparently, the same company has a trademark on "EVE" in Europe and 
> they have
> already used it to force a hardware company in the UK to rename their 
> product.
> Here is their Icelandic registration
>     http://www.els.stjr.is/focal/webguard.nsf/key2/br103-2001.html
>
I guess you don't speak Icelandic but it does not take much to interpret 
this as a TM filiing.  The English button does not seem to work at 
getting a translation of this record.  I gathered it was the same 
company mostly from the logo.  Damn!  Depressing as it is we have to 
change the name.

>> From the language and terms on the incubator site I was completely 
>> under the impression that this kind of name use would not present any 
>> legal issues.
>
>
> Goal #1 is "do the right thing".  Goal #2 is "protect our assets".

Absolutely!  No one is trying to do the wrong thing obviously.  It's a 
matter of being informed.

>
>>>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that 
>>> library
>>>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
>>>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
>>> merely  use
>>>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?
>>>
>> No there is no relation between our seda package and the SEDA project 
>> on Sourceforge.  We just named this thing, seda because we had no 
>> name for it at the time.  SEDA is what it is as far as the 
>> architecture used.  It's like naming a cat, cat.  I think the SEDA 
>> project on Sourceforge actually calls the respective code with the 
>> same fuction Sandstorm.  SEDA is an acronym used for Staged Event 
>> Driven Architecture as you probably already know.  It was part of 
>> Matt Welsh's doctoral thesis and hence the name and the technology is 
>> not something that can hold a trademark.  At least this is my 
>> understanding - perhaps this can be clarified by legal.
>
>
> Sorry, software products are not named "product" -- they are given 
> names to
> distinguish them from other software.  We do not use other people's 
> existing
> names without their permission because it would confuse everyone, 
> including me.
> [We learned that the hard way with httpd, even though we had permission.]
>
> Matt's toolkit may be code-named Sandstorm, but it is distributed as 
> seda on
> Sourceforge.  You should name it something like "sedakit" (which 
> probably means
> something in another language) or "apseda" (which may be Latin, for 
> all I know).

We can call it that fine: apseda it is.

>> Furthermore the concept of Threads for example was invented by some 
>> OS manufacturer but there are threads implementations all over like 
>> pthreads.  When does it become an infringement?  If we call a SEDA 
>> implementation seda?  See what I mean? Its kind of nebulous here.  
>> I'd like some clarification myself. Regardless I'm totally fine with 
>> changing the name here.
>
>
> I doubt that Matt trademarked the name -- we should simply "do the 
> right thing"
> and avoid confusion.

Yes I will rename it apseda right away.  I don't think people at 
Directory care anymore what things are to be called.  If anyone objects 
to the name let me know.  I will begin renaming this and Eve.  For Eve I 
think we can just call it the Apache Directory server and be done with 
it as well.

<snip/>

>> Snickers is an ASN.1 software library which is a Snacc4J 
>> replacement.  It's obviously not a candy bar.  Do they really have 
>> the right to enforce a Cease and Desist?  This is definately 
>> trademarked by MARS as you say no doubt about that.  We need to 
>> rename this as well but just for clarification how do companies like 
>> this get away with it?
>
>
> They don't need the "right" -- they merely need to avoid a countersuit 
> for
> obstruction.  Because it is a well-established mark and that mark is 
> used on the
> Internet, they can reasonably constrain use of it on websites.  Since the
> name is being used because the real Snickers is a snack, we are 
> actually using
> the trademarked name (not just any name) and we would lose.

Yep no arguments here I changed the name but just had to ask.  You have 
to admit it was cute and we were having fun with it and the play on 
snacc4j.  But this is not what we are about - we shall just focus on the 
substance from now on.

> In general, a good rule of thumb is to walk gingerly around companies who
> employ teams of lawyers for the purpose of protecting their marks.  It 
> simply
> doesn't matter why we *might* win such a suit, since the suit alone 
> would be
> enough to bury our little foundation in debt.

Of course Roy you are absolutely right. 

>>>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
>>> software
>>>      under that name.
>>
>>
>> No trademark is registered with Kerberos as far as I can see.  Also 
>> looks like Enrique performed some similar searches and found:
>>
>> "The USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to 
>> trademark Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published 
>> articles up until the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but 
>> this is not the case. "
>
>
> Okay, sorry that I didn't see the abandoned bit.  Once the STATUS file 
> is updated
> (be sure to update the table entries for the IP stuff), I have no 
> objection to
> releasing the non-trademarked name products.

Excellent!

Overall we will respond to this advice immediately, to apply it and 
forge ahead.  Thanks for your dilligence on these matters.  If we do not 
confront them now it will only get uglier down the road.  As for now 
could you please take the time to reassess the second vote for the 
release of naming, asn1 (formerly known as Snickers) and the ldap-common 
library?  I think we have responded well to your recommendations for 
these items.

Thanks,
Alex



Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Dec 27, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
> Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a few 
> things.  The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an 
> online service for looking up trademarks.  We were told this service 
> should be used to determine if there were any infringements with 
> project names.  I personally used the service for two of the names 
> cited in the items below.

We normally start with that and also do a Google search.

> According to the ASF the existance of any trademark alone was not an 
> issue.  For there to be an infringement the trademark would have to 
> fall within the same field and domain where the names also match 
> exactly.  In the case of the Eve Directory Server for example, the 
> presence of a trademark for "Eve Online", an online game would not be 
> an infringement.  I understand your concern but this is not the same 
> name. BTW note that "Eve Online" did not exist in 2002 when we first 
> started using the name Eve Directory Server for this project.

Apparently, the same company has a trademark on "EVE" in Europe and 
they have
already used it to force a hardware company in the UK to rename their 
product.
Here is their Icelandic registration
     http://www.els.stjr.is/focal/webguard.nsf/key2/br103-2001.html

> From the language and terms on the incubator site I was completely 
> under the impression that this kind of name use would not present any 
> legal issues.

Goal #1 is "do the right thing".  Goal #2 is "protect our assets".

>>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that 
>> library
>>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, 
>> in
>>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
>> merely  use
>>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?
>>
> No there is no relation between our seda package and the SEDA project 
> on Sourceforge.  We just named this thing, seda because we had no name 
> for it at the time.  SEDA is what it is as far as the architecture 
> used.  It's like naming a cat, cat.  I think the SEDA project on 
> Sourceforge actually calls the respective code with the same fuction 
> Sandstorm.  SEDA is an acronym used for Staged Event Driven 
> Architecture as you probably already know.  It was part of Matt 
> Welsh's doctoral thesis and hence the name and the technology is not 
> something that can hold a trademark.  At least this is my 
> understanding - perhaps this can be clarified by legal.

Sorry, software products are not named "product" -- they are given 
names to
distinguish them from other software.  We do not use other people's 
existing
names without their permission because it would confuse everyone, 
including me.
[We learned that the hard way with httpd, even though we had 
permission.]

Matt's toolkit may be code-named Sandstorm, but it is distributed as 
seda on
Sourceforge.  You should name it something like "sedakit" (which 
probably means
something in another language) or "apseda" (which may be Latin, for all 
I know).

> Furthermore the concept of Threads for example was invented by some OS 
> manufacturer but there are threads implementations all over like 
> pthreads.  When does it become an infringement?  If we call a SEDA 
> implementation seda?  See what I mean? Its kind of nebulous here.  I'd 
> like some clarification myself. Regardless I'm totally fine with 
> changing the name here.

I doubt that Matt trademarked the name -- we should simply "do the 
right thing"
and avoid confusion.

>>   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
>> cannot
>>      legally distribute software under that name.
>
>
> At a closer glance I noticed the trademark is "Eve Online" and not 
> really Eve.  "Eve Directory Server" is not the same name and it does 
> not infringe on this trademark.  I do understand your concern though 
> but where do we draw the line.  Also for the record we had the name 
> Eve before they did.  Sounds silly but true.  We've been under 
> incubation for a long time now 14 months and when I checked in the 
> begining they where not even on the map.

Not according to their registration in EU -- it is 2001.

>>   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended 
>> and
>>      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more 
>>  than
>>      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.
>
> Snickers is an ASN.1 software library which is a Snacc4J replacement.  
> It's obviously not a candy bar.  Do they really have the right to 
> enforce a Cease and Desist?  This is definately trademarked by MARS as 
> you say no doubt about that.  We need to rename this as well but just 
> for clarification how do companies like this get away with it?

They don't need the "right" -- they merely need to avoid a countersuit 
for
obstruction.  Because it is a well-established mark and that mark is 
used on the
Internet, they can reasonably constrain use of it on websites.  Since 
the
name is being used because the real Snickers is a snack, we are 
actually using
the trademarked name (not just any name) and we would lose.

In general, a good rule of thumb is to walk gingerly around companies 
who
employ teams of lawyers for the purpose of protecting their marks.  It 
simply
doesn't matter why we *might* win such a suit, since the suit alone 
would be
enough to bury our little foundation in debt.

>>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
>> software
>>      under that name.
>
> No trademark is registered with Kerberos as far as I can see.  Also 
> looks like Enrique performed some similar searches and found:
>
> "The USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to 
> trademark Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published 
> articles up until the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this 
> is not the case. "

Okay, sorry that I didn't see the abandoned bit.  Once the STATUS file 
is updated
(be sure to update the table entries for the IP stuff), I have no 
objection to
releasing the non-trademarked name products.

Personally, I think it would be better if you simply released a single 
alpha
product (like ldapd) and used experience from that to improve the 
individual
libraries, but I assume you have reasons for releasing independent 
libraries
right now.  Just be sure that each released product has three +1s 
backing it up.

....Roy


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Dec 27, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
> Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a few 
> things.  The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an 
> online service for looking up trademarks.  We were told this service 
> should be used to determine if there were any infringements with 
> project names.  I personally used the service for two of the names 
> cited in the items below.

We normally start with that and also do a Google search.

> According to the ASF the existance of any trademark alone was not an 
> issue.  For there to be an infringement the trademark would have to 
> fall within the same field and domain where the names also match 
> exactly.  In the case of the Eve Directory Server for example, the 
> presence of a trademark for "Eve Online", an online game would not be 
> an infringement.  I understand your concern but this is not the same 
> name. BTW note that "Eve Online" did not exist in 2002 when we first 
> started using the name Eve Directory Server for this project.

Apparently, the same company has a trademark on "EVE" in Europe and 
they have
already used it to force a hardware company in the UK to rename their 
product.
Here is their Icelandic registration
     http://www.els.stjr.is/focal/webguard.nsf/key2/br103-2001.html

> From the language and terms on the incubator site I was completely 
> under the impression that this kind of name use would not present any 
> legal issues.

Goal #1 is "do the right thing".  Goal #2 is "protect our assets".

>>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that 
>> library
>>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, 
>> in
>>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
>> merely  use
>>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?
>>
> No there is no relation between our seda package and the SEDA project 
> on Sourceforge.  We just named this thing, seda because we had no name 
> for it at the time.  SEDA is what it is as far as the architecture 
> used.  It's like naming a cat, cat.  I think the SEDA project on 
> Sourceforge actually calls the respective code with the same fuction 
> Sandstorm.  SEDA is an acronym used for Staged Event Driven 
> Architecture as you probably already know.  It was part of Matt 
> Welsh's doctoral thesis and hence the name and the technology is not 
> something that can hold a trademark.  At least this is my 
> understanding - perhaps this can be clarified by legal.

Sorry, software products are not named "product" -- they are given 
names to
distinguish them from other software.  We do not use other people's 
existing
names without their permission because it would confuse everyone, 
including me.
[We learned that the hard way with httpd, even though we had 
permission.]

Matt's toolkit may be code-named Sandstorm, but it is distributed as 
seda on
Sourceforge.  You should name it something like "sedakit" (which 
probably means
something in another language) or "apseda" (which may be Latin, for all 
I know).

> Furthermore the concept of Threads for example was invented by some OS 
> manufacturer but there are threads implementations all over like 
> pthreads.  When does it become an infringement?  If we call a SEDA 
> implementation seda?  See what I mean? Its kind of nebulous here.  I'd 
> like some clarification myself. Regardless I'm totally fine with 
> changing the name here.

I doubt that Matt trademarked the name -- we should simply "do the 
right thing"
and avoid confusion.

>>   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
>> cannot
>>      legally distribute software under that name.
>
>
> At a closer glance I noticed the trademark is "Eve Online" and not 
> really Eve.  "Eve Directory Server" is not the same name and it does 
> not infringe on this trademark.  I do understand your concern though 
> but where do we draw the line.  Also for the record we had the name 
> Eve before they did.  Sounds silly but true.  We've been under 
> incubation for a long time now 14 months and when I checked in the 
> begining they where not even on the map.

Not according to their registration in EU -- it is 2001.

>>   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended 
>> and
>>      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more 
>>  than
>>      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.
>
> Snickers is an ASN.1 software library which is a Snacc4J replacement.  
> It's obviously not a candy bar.  Do they really have the right to 
> enforce a Cease and Desist?  This is definately trademarked by MARS as 
> you say no doubt about that.  We need to rename this as well but just 
> for clarification how do companies like this get away with it?

They don't need the "right" -- they merely need to avoid a countersuit 
for
obstruction.  Because it is a well-established mark and that mark is 
used on the
Internet, they can reasonably constrain use of it on websites.  Since 
the
name is being used because the real Snickers is a snack, we are 
actually using
the trademarked name (not just any name) and we would lose.

In general, a good rule of thumb is to walk gingerly around companies 
who
employ teams of lawyers for the purpose of protecting their marks.  It 
simply
doesn't matter why we *might* win such a suit, since the suit alone 
would be
enough to bury our little foundation in debt.

>>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
>> software
>>      under that name.
>
> No trademark is registered with Kerberos as far as I can see.  Also 
> looks like Enrique performed some similar searches and found:
>
> "The USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to 
> trademark Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published 
> articles up until the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this 
> is not the case. "

Okay, sorry that I didn't see the abandoned bit.  Once the STATUS file 
is updated
(be sure to update the table entries for the IP stuff), I have no 
objection to
releasing the non-trademarked name products.

Personally, I think it would be better if you simply released a single 
alpha
product (like ldapd) and used experience from that to improve the 
individual
libraries, but I assume you have reasons for releasing independent 
libraries
right now.  Just be sure that each released product has three +1s 
backing it up.

....Roy


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> -1  The incubator status file does not reflect any progress towards
>     clearing the IP (you MUST update that file).


Yes I should have updated this ages ago.  Thanks for catching it. 


> Furthermore, the release artifacts use names that are trademarked and in
> use by other projects.  Some questions need to be answered, while others
> require a rename:

Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a few 
things.  The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an online 
service for looking up trademarks.  We were told this service should be 
used to determine if there were any infringements with project names.  I 
personally used the service for two of the names cited in the items 
below.  According to the ASF the existance of any trademark alone was 
not an issue.  For there to be an infringement the trademark would have 
to fall within the same field and domain where the names also match 
exactly.  In the case of the Eve Directory Server for example, the 
presence of a trademark for "Eve Online", an online game would not be an 
infringement.  I understand your concern but this is not the same name. 
BTW note that "Eve Online" did not exist in 2002 when we first started 
using the name Eve Directory Server for this project.


 From the language and terms on the incubator site I was completely 
under the impression that this kind of name use would not present any 
legal issues.

>
>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that library
>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
> merely  use
>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?
>
No there is no relation between our seda package and the SEDA project on 
Sourceforge.  We just named this thing, seda because we had no name for 
it at the time.  SEDA is what it is as far as the architecture used.  
It's like naming a cat, cat.  I think the SEDA project on Sourceforge 
actually calls the respective code with the same fuction Sandstorm.  
SEDA is an acronym used for Staged Event Driven Architecture as you 
probably already know.  It was part of Matt Welsh's doctoral thesis and 
hence the name and the technology is not something that can hold a 
trademark.  At least this is my understanding - perhaps this can be 
clarified by legal.


Furthermore the concept of Threads for example was invented by some OS 
manufacturer but there are threads implementations all over like 
pthreads.  When does it become an infringement?  If we call a SEDA 
implementation seda?  See what I mean? Its kind of nebulous here.  I'd 
like some clarification myself. Regardless I'm totally fine with 
changing the name here.

>   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
> cannot
>      legally distribute software under that name.


At a closer glance I noticed the trademark is "Eve Online" and not 
really Eve.  "Eve Directory Server" is not the same name and it does not 
infringe on this trademark.  I do understand your concern though but 
where do we draw the line.  Also for the record we had the name Eve 
before they did.  Sounds silly but true.  We've been under incubation 
for a long time now 14 months and when I checked in the begining they 
where not even on the map. 

>   3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
>      actively defended it in other contexts:
>       
> <http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.

Youch!

>      Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
> one
>      software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of 
> risk  to
>      be used as the name of an Apache product.

This is just trouble! I agree.  Let's just quickly find another name for 
this.  Any recommendations would be welcome.

>
>   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended and
>      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more  
> than
>      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.

Snickers is an ASN.1 software library which is a Snacc4J replacement.  
It's obviously not a candy bar.  Do they really have the right to 
enforce a Cease and Desist?  This is definately trademarked by MARS as 
you say no doubt about that.  We need to rename this as well but just 
for clarification how do companies like this get away with it?

http://www.snickers.se/Snickers/ChangeMarket.aspx

>
>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
> software
>      under that name.

No trademark is registered with Kerberos as far as I can see.  Also 
looks like Enrique performed some similar searches and found:

"The USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to 
trademark Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published articles 
up until the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this is not the 
case. "

>
> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.

Understood!  We do take this seriously although we have some absurd 
issues here w.r.t. Snickers and Janus.  We shall address these 
immediately. 

Thanks,
Alex

>
> ....Roy
>
> On Dec 27, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> We at the Directory Project (under incubation here,  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to 
>> release  from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall 
>> release  artifacts if this vote passes are listed below with a 
>> release version,  a short description, and a link if more information 
>> is needed to  partake in this vote:
>>
>>
>> eve (0.8)
>>   - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
>>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html
>>
>> ldap (0.8)
>>  - common LDAP libraries
>>  -  http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/ 
>> index.html
>>
>> naming (0.8)
>>  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>>  -  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/ 
>> index.html
>>
>> janus (0.2)
>>  - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
>>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html
>>
>> snickers (0.2)
>>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime  
>> (ASN.1 runtime)
>>  -  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html
>>
>> kerberos (0.4)
>>  - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
>>  -  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html
>>
>> seda (0.2)
>>  - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
>>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html
>>
>>
>> We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned  
>> code, the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard  
>> NOTICE.txt in accordance with incubation policies regarding 
>> releases.   All release artifacts also are maven generated artifacts 
>> whose group  IDs are set to incubator-directory to clearly show the 
>> code's  incubation status.
>> On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a  
>> vote to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under 
>> the  the Directory  umbrella:
>>
>> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
>> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
>> [ ] +0 Abstain
>>
>> Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
>> The Directory Project Team
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Jennifer B Machovec <ma...@us.ibm.com>.
FWIW,  Microsoft does not list Kerberos as a Microsoft Corporation 
trademark 
(http://www.microsoft.com/library/toolbar/3.0/trademarks/en-us.mspx), 
although they reserve any IP rights they may have established in their 
product names.

Cheers,

Jennifer





Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>
12/27/2004 09:48 PM
Please respond to general
 
        To:     Apache Directory Developers List 
<di...@incubator.apache.org>
        cc:     general@incubator.apache.org, 
directory-ppmc@incubator.apache.org
        Subject:        Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases


Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute 
> software under that name.

I disagree.

1)  I find no record that MIT has a trademark on Kerberos.  The USPTO 
Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to trademark 
Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published articles up until 
the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this is not the case.

2)  There are no trademarks by anyone else on Kerberos.

3)  Major commercial distributions freely name their products Kerberos, 
although prepended with their corporation's name, eg:

Microsoft Kerberos
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/secauthn/security/microsoft_kerberos.asp


JCSI Kerberos
http://www.wedgetail.com/jcsi/kerberos/FAQ.html

-enrique


> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.
> 
> ....Roy


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Jennifer B Machovec <ma...@us.ibm.com>.
FWIW,  Microsoft does not list Kerberos as a Microsoft Corporation 
trademark 
(http://www.microsoft.com/library/toolbar/3.0/trademarks/en-us.mspx), 
although they reserve any IP rights they may have established in their 
product names.

Cheers,

Jennifer





Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>
12/27/2004 09:48 PM
Please respond to general
 
        To:     Apache Directory Developers List 
<di...@incubator.apache.org>
        cc:     general@incubator.apache.org, 
directory-ppmc@incubator.apache.org
        Subject:        Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases


Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute 
> software under that name.

I disagree.

1)  I find no record that MIT has a trademark on Kerberos.  The USPTO 
Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to trademark 
Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published articles up until 
the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this is not the case.

2)  There are no trademarks by anyone else on Kerberos.

3)  Major commercial distributions freely name their products Kerberos, 
although prepended with their corporation's name, eg:

Microsoft Kerberos
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/secauthn/security/microsoft_kerberos.asp


JCSI Kerberos
http://www.wedgetail.com/jcsi/kerberos/FAQ.html

-enrique


> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.
> 
> ....Roy


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
> software under that name.

I disagree.

1)  I find no record that MIT has a trademark on Kerberos.  The USPTO 
Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to trademark 
Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published articles up until 
the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this is not the case.

2)  There are no trademarks by anyone else on Kerberos.

3)  Major commercial distributions freely name their products Kerberos, 
although prepended with their corporation's name, eg:

Microsoft Kerberos
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/secauthn/security/microsoft_kerberos.asp

JCSI Kerberos
http://www.wedgetail.com/jcsi/kerberos/FAQ.html

-enrique


> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.
> 
> ....Roy


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> -1  The incubator status file does not reflect any progress towards
>     clearing the IP (you MUST update that file).


Yes I should have updated this ages ago.  Thanks for catching it. 


> Furthermore, the release artifacts use names that are trademarked and in
> use by other projects.  Some questions need to be answered, while others
> require a rename:

Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a few 
things.  The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an online 
service for looking up trademarks.  We were told this service should be 
used to determine if there were any infringements with project names.  I 
personally used the service for two of the names cited in the items 
below.  According to the ASF the existance of any trademark alone was 
not an issue.  For there to be an infringement the trademark would have 
to fall within the same field and domain where the names also match 
exactly.  In the case of the Eve Directory Server for example, the 
presence of a trademark for "Eve Online", an online game would not be an 
infringement.  I understand your concern but this is not the same name. 
BTW note that "Eve Online" did not exist in 2002 when we first started 
using the name Eve Directory Server for this project.


 From the language and terms on the incubator site I was completely 
under the impression that this kind of name use would not present any 
legal issues.

>
>   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that library
>      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
>      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it 
> merely  use
>      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?
>
No there is no relation between our seda package and the SEDA project on 
Sourceforge.  We just named this thing, seda because we had no name for 
it at the time.  SEDA is what it is as far as the architecture used.  
It's like naming a cat, cat.  I think the SEDA project on Sourceforge 
actually calls the respective code with the same fuction Sandstorm.  
SEDA is an acronym used for Staged Event Driven Architecture as you 
probably already know.  It was part of Matt Welsh's doctoral thesis and 
hence the name and the technology is not something that can hold a 
trademark.  At least this is my understanding - perhaps this can be 
clarified by legal.


Furthermore the concept of Threads for example was invented by some OS 
manufacturer but there are threads implementations all over like 
pthreads.  When does it become an infringement?  If we call a SEDA 
implementation seda?  See what I mean? Its kind of nebulous here.  I'd 
like some clarification myself. Regardless I'm totally fine with 
changing the name here.

>   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
> cannot
>      legally distribute software under that name.


At a closer glance I noticed the trademark is "Eve Online" and not 
really Eve.  "Eve Directory Server" is not the same name and it does not 
infringe on this trademark.  I do understand your concern though but 
where do we draw the line.  Also for the record we had the name Eve 
before they did.  Sounds silly but true.  We've been under incubation 
for a long time now 14 months and when I checked in the begining they 
where not even on the map. 

>   3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
>      actively defended it in other contexts:
>       
> <http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.

Youch!

>      Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
> one
>      software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of 
> risk  to
>      be used as the name of an Apache product.

This is just trouble! I agree.  Let's just quickly find another name for 
this.  Any recommendations would be welcome.

>
>   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended and
>      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more  
> than
>      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.

Snickers is an ASN.1 software library which is a Snacc4J replacement.  
It's obviously not a candy bar.  Do they really have the right to 
enforce a Cease and Desist?  This is definately trademarked by MARS as 
you say no doubt about that.  We need to rename this as well but just 
for clarification how do companies like this get away with it?

http://www.snickers.se/Snickers/ChangeMarket.aspx

>
>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
> software
>      under that name.

No trademark is registered with Kerberos as far as I can see.  Also 
looks like Enrique performed some similar searches and found:

"The USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to 
trademark Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published articles 
up until the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this is not the 
case. "

>
> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.

Understood!  We do take this seriously although we have some absurd 
issues here w.r.t. Snickers and Janus.  We shall address these 
immediately. 

Thanks,
Alex

>
> ....Roy
>
> On Dec 27, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> We at the Directory Project (under incubation here,  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to 
>> release  from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall 
>> release  artifacts if this vote passes are listed below with a 
>> release version,  a short description, and a link if more information 
>> is needed to  partake in this vote:
>>
>>
>> eve (0.8)
>>   - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
>>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html
>>
>> ldap (0.8)
>>  - common LDAP libraries
>>  -  http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/ 
>> index.html
>>
>> naming (0.8)
>>  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>>  -  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/ 
>> index.html
>>
>> janus (0.2)
>>  - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
>>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html
>>
>> snickers (0.2)
>>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime  
>> (ASN.1 runtime)
>>  -  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html
>>
>> kerberos (0.4)
>>  - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
>>  -  
>> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html
>>
>> seda (0.2)
>>  - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
>>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html
>>
>>
>> We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned  
>> code, the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard  
>> NOTICE.txt in accordance with incubation policies regarding 
>> releases.   All release artifacts also are maven generated artifacts 
>> whose group  IDs are set to incubator-directory to clearly show the 
>> code's  incubation status.
>> On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a  
>> vote to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under 
>> the  the Directory  umbrella:
>>
>> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
>> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
>> [ ] +0 Abstain
>>
>> Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
>> The Directory Project Team
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
> software under that name.

I disagree.

1)  I find no record that MIT has a trademark on Kerberos.  The USPTO 
Trademark Electronic Search System shows efforts by MIT to trademark 
Kerberos in the early 90's were abandoned.  Published articles up until 
the late 90's may claim a trademark by MIT, but this is not the case.

2)  There are no trademarks by anyone else on Kerberos.

3)  Major commercial distributions freely name their products Kerberos, 
although prepended with their corporation's name, eg:

Microsoft Kerberos
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/secauthn/security/microsoft_kerberos.asp

JCSI Kerberos
http://www.wedgetail.com/jcsi/kerberos/FAQ.html

-enrique


> It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
> compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
> considered an infringement.
> 
> ....Roy


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
-1  The incubator status file does not reflect any progress towards
     clearing the IP (you MUST update that file).

Furthermore, the release artifacts use names that are trademarked and in
use by other projects.  Some questions need to be answered, while others
require a rename:

   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that library
      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it merely  
use
      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?

   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
cannot
      legally distribute software under that name.

   3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
      actively defended it in other contexts:
       
<http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.
      Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
one
      software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of risk  
to
      be used as the name of an Apache product.

   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended and
      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more  
than
      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.

   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
software
      under that name.

It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
considered an infringement.

....Roy

On Dec 27, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We at the Directory Project (under incubation here,  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to release  
> from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall release  
> artifacts if this vote passes are listed below with a release version,  
> a short description, and a link if more information is needed to  
> partake in this vote:
>
>
> eve (0.8)
>   - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html
>
> ldap (0.8)
>  - common LDAP libraries
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/ 
> index.html
>
> naming (0.8)
>  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/ 
> index.html
>
> janus (0.2)
>  - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html
>
> snickers (0.2)
>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime  
> (ASN.1 runtime)
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html
>
> kerberos (0.4)
>  - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html
>
> seda (0.2)
>  - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html
>
>
> We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned  
> code, the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard  
> NOTICE.txt in accordance with incubation policies regarding releases.   
> All release artifacts also are maven generated artifacts whose group  
> IDs are set to incubator-directory to clearly show the code's  
> incubation status.
> On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a  
> vote to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under the  
> the Directory  umbrella:
>
> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain
>
> Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
> The Directory Project Team
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>> Alex,
>>
>> Since we've already had a -1 from Roy on the earlier plan, I would 
>> like to
>> make sure that he sees and comments on the revised one, which 
>> attempts put
>> put out a more limited set, while resolving the trademark concerns.  
>> But I
>> don't believe the the ldap, naming (previously released by Tomcat and
>> others) and asn1 names represent a problem.
>>
>> There is the matter of the STATUS file.  Incubator projects should 
>> not even
>> be proposing a release if their STATUS file isn't up to date.
>>  
>>
> Yeah true I checked in the changes to the status file but I can't seem 
> to figure out how to publish things out.  I ran ant but that did not 
> seem to make alterations to the generated directory.html file.  
> Perhaps there's something else that needs to be done.  Any ideas?

Alrighty I finally got the STATUS file published: found instructions 
deep in incubator sight hehe.  Ok if you don't see the changes please 
for browser to reload page instead of using caches.

Let's keep the vote going for projects:

asn1
naming
ldap

Thanks for the heads up!
Alex

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RE: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> Yeah true I checked in the changes to the status file but I can't seem
> to figure out how to publish things out.  I ran ant but that did not
> seem to make alterations to the generated directory.html file.  Perhaps
> there's something else that needs to be done.  Any ideas?

Should be update site-author/projects/directory.cwiki, then run the forrest
build, then update site-publish/.

	--- Noel


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:

>Alex,
>
>Since we've already had a -1 from Roy on the earlier plan, I would like to
>make sure that he sees and comments on the revised one, which attempts put
>put out a more limited set, while resolving the trademark concerns.  But I
>don't believe the the ldap, naming (previously released by Tomcat and
>others) and asn1 names represent a problem.
>
>There is the matter of the STATUS file.  Incubator projects should not even
>be proposing a release if their STATUS file isn't up to date.
>  
>
Yeah true I checked in the changes to the status file but I can't seem 
to figure out how to publish things out.  I ran ant but that did not 
seem to make alterations to the generated directory.html file.  Perhaps 
there's something else that needs to be done.  Any ideas?

Alex

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RE: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Alex,

Since we've already had a -1 from Roy on the earlier plan, I would like to
make sure that he sees and comments on the revised one, which attempts put
put out a more limited set, while resolving the trademark concerns.  But I
don't believe the the ldap, naming (previously released by Tomcat and
others) and asn1 names represent a problem.

There is the matter of the STATUS file.  Incubator projects should not even
be proposing a release if their STATUS file isn't up to date.

	--- Noel


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Trustin Lee wrote:

>+1 :)
>  
>
Oooops I forgot to vote myself +1.

Alex

>
>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:38:22 -0500, Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello again,
>>
>>It looks like lots of people are away and we're going to have to wait
>>for some clarification on whether or not we can release kerberos, eve,
>>janus, and seda as is or change their names.  So in the mean time I
>>think we can separately release the following:
>>
>>ldap (0.8)
>> - common LDAP libraries
>> -
>>http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html
>>
>>naming (0.8)
>> - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>> -
>>http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html
>>
>>asn1 (0.2)  [previously called snickers]
>> - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime
>>(ASN.1 runtime)
>> - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/asn1/index.html
>>
>>Note:
>>
>>Snickers has been renamed to the Apache ASN.1 project.  ASN, ASN.1, "ASN
>>One" all are not trademarked.  The website has been updated as well as
>>all the code within the directory project that depends on this code.
>>Package names have been changed as well.  There is no trace of Snickers
>>anymore.
>>
>>[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
>>[ ] -1 Reject the request to release
>>[ ] +0 Abstain
>>
>>Again have a Happy New Year!
>>The Directory Project Team
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Trustin Lee <tr...@gmail.com>.
+1 :)


On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:38:22 -0500, Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hello again,
> 
> It looks like lots of people are away and we're going to have to wait
> for some clarification on whether or not we can release kerberos, eve,
> janus, and seda as is or change their names.  So in the mean time I
> think we can separately release the following:
> 
> ldap (0.8)
>  - common LDAP libraries
>  -
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html
> 
> naming (0.8)
>  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>  -
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html
> 
> asn1 (0.2)  [previously called snickers]
>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime
> (ASN.1 runtime)
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/asn1/index.html
> 
> Note:
> 
> Snickers has been renamed to the Apache ASN.1 project.  ASN, ASN.1, "ASN
> One" all are not trademarked.  The website has been updated as well as
> all the code within the directory project that depends on this code.
> Package names have been changed as well.  There is no trace of Snickers
> anymore.
> 
> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain
> 
> Again have a Happy New Year!
> The Directory Project Team
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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> 
> 


-- 
what we call human nature is actually human habit
--
http://gleamynode.net/

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RE: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@dpml.net>.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@d-haven.org]
> Sent: 05 January 2005 00:17
> To: Apache Directory Developers List
> Cc: vtence@videotron.ca
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II
> 
> Stephen McConnell wrote:
> 
> >[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> >[x] -1 Reject the request to release
> >[ ] +0 Abstain
> >
> >1. wrong license in distribution
> >
> >
> It's not the ASL 2.0?  We need to fix that.  Where did you notice the
> ASL 2.0 license missing?
> 
> >2. no javadoc package in the dist
> >3. directory has not exited incubator and so long as this project
> >   is in incubator it isn't real
> >
> >
> At this point in the game I don't think either of these are a blocker.
> Think of it as an early access release.

I raised three items.  The first is IMO a blocker but I have assurance
from Alex (on IRC) that this is already taken care of.  The second is
simply a QA subject.  The third is an opinion. 

Irrespective of the above - the word "either" is the more correctly
dealt with under the real of correct and appropriate grammar.

Cheers, Steve.

;-)



RE: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@d-haven.org]
> Sent: 05 January 2005 00:17
> To: Apache Directory Developers List
> Cc: vtence@videotron.ca
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II
> 
> Stephen McConnell wrote:
> 
> >[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> >[x] -1 Reject the request to release
> >[ ] +0 Abstain
> >
> >1. wrong license in distribution
> >
> >
> It's not the ASL 2.0?  We need to fix that.  Where did you notice the 
> ASL 2.0 license missing?
> 
> >2. no javadoc package in the dist
> >3. directory has not exited incubator and so long as this project
> >   is in incubator it isn't real
> >
> >
> At this point in the game I don't think either of these are a blocker.

> Think of it as an early access release.

I raised three items.  The first is IMO a blocker but I have assurance
from Alex (on IRC) that this is already taken care of.  The second is
simply a QA subject.  The third is an opinion. 

Irrespective of the above - the word "either" is the more correctly
dealt with under the real of correct and appropriate grammar.

Cheers, Steve.

;-)



Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:

>[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
>[x] -1 Reject the request to release
>[ ] +0 Abstain
>
>1. wrong license in distribution
>  
>
It's not the ASL 2.0?  We need to fix that.  Where did you notice the 
ASL 2.0 license missing?

>2. no javadoc package in the dist
>3. directory has not exited incubator and so long as this project
>   is in incubator it isn't real
>  
>
At this point in the game I don't think either of these are a blocker.
Think of it as an early access release.

-- 

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
                - Rich Cook


RE: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
[x] -1 Reject the request to release
[ ] +0 Abstain

1. wrong license in distribution
2. no javadoc package in the dist
3. directory has not exited incubator and so long as this project
   is in incubator it isn't real

Cheers, Steve.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vincent Tence [mailto:vtence@videotron.ca]
> Sent: 04 January 2005 04:14
> To: Apache Directory Developers List
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II
> 
> [x] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Vincent Tence <vt...@videotron.ca>.
[x] +1 Approve the request to release
[ ] -1 Reject the request to release
[ ] +0 Abstain


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Enrique Rodriguez <er...@apache.org>.
  [x] +1 Approve the request to release
  [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
  [ ] +0 Abstain

Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
> [x] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain



-- 

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
                - Rich Cook


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
> [x] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain



-- 

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
                - Rich Cook


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
+1

Phil

Alex Karasulu wrote:
> Hello again,
> 
> It looks like lots of people are away and we're going to have to wait 
> for some clarification on whether or not we can release kerberos, eve, 
> janus, and seda as is or change their names.  So in the mean time I 
> think we can separately release the following:
> 
> ldap (0.8)  - common LDAP libraries  - 
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html
> 
> naming (0.8)  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider  - 
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html 
> 
> 
> asn1 (0.2)  [previously called snickers]
>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime 
> (ASN.1 runtime)  - 
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/asn1/index.html
> 
> 
> Note:
> 
> Snickers has been renamed to the Apache ASN.1 project.  ASN, ASN.1, "ASN 
> One" all are not trademarked.  The website has been updated as well as 
> all the code within the directory project that depends on this code.  
> Package names have been changed as well.  There is no trace of Snickers 
> anymore.
> 
> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain
> 
> Again have a Happy New Year!
> The Directory Project Team
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> 


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[VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Hello again,

It looks like lots of people are away and we're going to have to wait 
for some clarification on whether or not we can release kerberos, eve, 
janus, and seda as is or change their names.  So in the mean time I 
think we can separately release the following:

ldap (0.8) 
  - common LDAP libraries 
  - 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html

naming (0.8) 
  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider 
  - 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html 


asn1 (0.2)  [previously called snickers]
  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime 
(ASN.1 runtime) 
  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/asn1/index.html


Note:

Snickers has been renamed to the Apache ASN.1 project.  ASN, ASN.1, "ASN 
One" all are not trademarked.  The website has been updated as well as 
all the code within the directory project that depends on this code.  
Package names have been changed as well.  There is no trace of Snickers 
anymore.

[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
[ ] -1 Reject the request to release
[ ] +0 Abstain

Again have a Happy New Year!
The Directory Project Team



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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tuesday 28 December 2004 02:33, Alex Karasulu wrote:

 [ x ] +1 Approve the request to release
 [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
 [ ] +0 Abstain

Good going....

Cheers
Niclas
-- 
   +------//-------------------+
  / http://www.dpml.net       /
 / http://niclas.hedhman.org / 
+------//-------------------+


Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Dain Sundstrom <ds...@gluecode.com>.
WOW!  Great work!

+1 release the entire suite

-dain

--
Dain Sundstrom
Chief Architect
Gluecode Software
310.536.8355, ext. 26

On Dec 27, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We at the Directory Project (under incubation here,  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to release  
> from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall release  
> artifacts if this vote passes are listed below with a release version,  
> a short description, and a link if more information is needed to  
> partake in this vote:
>
>
> eve (0.8)
>   - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html
>
> ldap (0.8)
>  - common LDAP libraries
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/ 
> index.html
>
> naming (0.8)
>  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/ 
> index.html
>
> janus (0.2)
>  - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html
>
> snickers (0.2)
>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime  
> (ASN.1 runtime)
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html
>
> kerberos (0.4)
>  - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html
>
> seda (0.2)
>  - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html
>
>
> We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned  
> code, the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard  
> NOTICE.txt in accordance with incubation policies regarding releases.   
> All release artifacts also are maven generated artifacts whose group  
> IDs are set to incubator-directory to clearly show the code's  
> incubation status.
> On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a  
> vote to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under the  
> the Directory  umbrella:
>
> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain
>
> Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
> The Directory Project Team
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org


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[VOTE] Directory project releases II

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Hello again,

It looks like lots of people are away and we're going to have to wait 
for some clarification on whether or not we can release kerberos, eve, 
janus, and seda as is or change their names.  So in the mean time I 
think we can separately release the following:

ldap (0.8) 
  - common LDAP libraries 
  - 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html

naming (0.8) 
  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider 
  - 
http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html 


asn1 (0.2)  [previously called snickers]
  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime 
(ASN.1 runtime) 
  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/asn1/index.html


Note:

Snickers has been renamed to the Apache ASN.1 project.  ASN, ASN.1, "ASN 
One" all are not trademarked.  The website has been updated as well as 
all the code within the directory project that depends on this code.  
Package names have been changed as well.  There is no trace of Snickers 
anymore.

[ ] +1 Approve the request to release
[ ] -1 Reject the request to release
[ ] +0 Abstain

Again have a Happy New Year!
The Directory Project Team



Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
-1  The incubator status file does not reflect any progress towards
     clearing the IP (you MUST update that file).

Furthermore, the release artifacts use names that are trademarked and in
use by other projects.  Some questions need to be answered, while others
require a rename:

   1) Has Matt Walsh approved transfer of the SEDA name?  Is that library
      a direct descendant of <http://sourceforge.net/projects/seda/>, in
      which case the version numbering should be 4.0, or does it merely  
use
      his architecture (in which case it is wrong to use the name)?

   2) Eve is a trademark of CCP Ltd. for use in on-line software.  We  
cannot
      legally distribute software under that name.

   3) Janus is a trademark of Janus International Holding Co, which has
      actively defended it in other contexts:
       
<http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0201.html>.
      Janus is also the name of several software projects and at least  
one
      software company.  I do not consider it sufficiently free of risk  
to
      be used as the name of an Apache product.

   4) Snickers is a trademark of MARS, Inc.  It is actively defended and
      used on-line, and thus unlikely to be usable by the ASF for more  
than
      a few months before they send us a Cease & Desist.

   5) Kerberos is a trademark of MIT.  We cannot legally distribute  
software
      under that name.

It is the responsibility of all Apache projects to search for and verify
compliance with trademark law prior to release of products that might be
considered an infringement.

....Roy

On Dec 27, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We at the Directory Project (under incubation here,  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to release  
> from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall release  
> artifacts if this vote passes are listed below with a release version,  
> a short description, and a link if more information is needed to  
> partake in this vote:
>
>
> eve (0.8)
>   - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html
>
> ldap (0.8)
>  - common LDAP libraries
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/ 
> index.html
>
> naming (0.8)
>  - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/ 
> index.html
>
> janus (0.2)
>  - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html
>
> snickers (0.2)
>  - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime  
> (ASN.1 runtime)
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html
>
> kerberos (0.4)
>  - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
>  -  
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html
>
> seda (0.2)
>  - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
>  - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html
>
>
> We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned  
> code, the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard  
> NOTICE.txt in accordance with incubation policies regarding releases.   
> All release artifacts also are maven generated artifacts whose group  
> IDs are set to incubator-directory to clearly show the code's  
> incubation status.
> On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a  
> vote to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under the  
> the Directory  umbrella:
>
> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain
>
> Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
> The Directory Project Team
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>


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Re: [VOTE] Directory project releases

Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me.

-- dims


On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:33:25 -0500, Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We at the Directory Project (under incubation here,
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory) have been preparing to release
> from the incubator.  The major subprojects that shall release artifacts
> if this vote passes are listed below with a release version, a short
> description, and a link if more information is needed to partake in this
> vote:
> 
> eve (0.8)
>    - a pure Java LDAP directory server and LDAP JNDI provider
>    - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/eve/index.html
> 
> ldap (0.8)
>   - common LDAP libraries
>   -
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-ldap/index.html
> 
> naming (0.8)
>   - a lightweight, in-memory JNDI service provider
>   -
> http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/directory-naming/index.html
> 
> janus (0.2)
>   - an Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (AAA) framework
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/janus/index.html
> 
> snickers (0.2)
>   - high performance non-blocking replacement for the Snacc4J runtime
> (ASN.1 runtime)
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/snickers/index.html
> 
> kerberos (0.4)
>   - a pure Java kerberos server implementation
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/kerberos/index.html
> 
> seda (0.2)
>   - a networking framework used by Kerberos and LDAP servers
>   - http://incubator.apache.org/directory/subprojects/seda/index.html
> 
> We have prepared all jar artifacts so they contain 100% ASF owned code,
> the incubator disclaimer, the ASL 2.0 and the standard NOTICE.txt in
> accordance with incubation policies regarding releases.  All release
> artifacts also are maven generated artifacts whose group IDs are set to
> incubator-directory to clearly show the code's incubation status.
> 
> On behalf of the Directory Project Team, I would like to initiate a vote
> to release these versions of the artifacts in projects under the the
> Directory  umbrella:
> 
> [ ] +1 Approve the request to release
> [ ] -1 Reject the request to release
> [ ] +0 Abstain
> 
> Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year!
> The Directory Project Team
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> 
> 


-- 
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/

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