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Posted to dev@trafodion.apache.org by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> on 2016/07/28 07:40:02 UTC
Working towards graduation
Hi all,
With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation, we
are on the right track building our experience regarding release management
in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code base
for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the project.
According to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors (per
27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC flags
shows following affiliation:
- Esgyn: 9 contributors
- Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise - I
feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services
OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
Re: Working towards graduation
Posted by Stack <st...@duboce.net>.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Rohit Jain <ro...@esgyn.com> wrote:
> Here is how Kudu has documented all their participation
> http://kudu.apache.org/community.html
> We need to do the same.
>
> This looks like a good idea. Add a link to Rohit's new book too (I presume
the punchline is Trafodion -- I've not read it yet.... smile).
I like the idea of getting the wechat folks involved as committers (if
possible) especially if we can get a pipeline of committers material up and
running.
> After watching Kudo graduate, diversity seems like a red herring...
They have one committer/pmc who is from a company that is other than that
of the rest of the committers, but incubator voting probably factored other
projects attributes higher to compensate. The assessment at vote time is
far from clinical.
We could set ourselves a goal of going to incubator for a graduation vote
after we get the next non-esgyn committer (or two) and after another
release or so?
I presume you all get the bit on why diversity is good for the health of
the project.
M
> Rohit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gunnar Tapper [mailto:tapper.gunnar@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 1:00 PM
> To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Working towards graduation
>
> I think we might be underpromoting how much Trafodion is being presented.
> For example, here's Rohit's list:
>
> · China Hadoop Summit, Shanghai, July ‘15
>
> · ApacheCon Big Data Europe, Sept ‘15
>
> · Strata + Hadoop World, San Jose, Mar ‘16
>
> · ApacheCon Big Data NA, May ‘16
>
> · HBaseCon, San Francisco, May ‘16
>
> · Data Day Seattle, July ‘16
>
> · Meetups in New York Oct ‘15, Austin Data Geeks Feb ’25, Houston
> Hadoop Nov ’14, Bay Area HBase Jul ‘14
>
> There are more on this list, both in the US and other places by myself,
> Dave, Hans, and Rao.
>
> After watching Kudo graduate, diversity seems like a red herring: all
> committers but one come from the same company.
>
> Also, there's a lot of activity around China around Trafodion including a
> WeChat group, the documentation being translated into Chinese, university
> people joining up, etc.
>
> Is the problem here that we don't have a comprehensive list of community
> activities? I recommend that we the project create a discussion thread on
> all presentations and other activities so that we can gather it in one
> place.
>
> Gunnar
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans, all,
> >
> > Diversity can come from any angle: company affiliation, software
> > developers
> > vs consultants/promotors etc.
> >
> > I suggest to take a look beyond the box and assess everyone participating
> > regarding their potential.
> >
> > Yes, solicitation contributors from other ASF projects is a potential
> > solutions. Especially when there is an opportunity for pollination.
> >
> > Expanding the adopter base and expanding the contributor base (leading to
> > more diversity in the subset of privileged contributors) seems to be a
> > chicken-egg situation. Adopter won't buy when the product (and the
> > project)
> > doesn't gather much street creds. And the project won't get more
> > contributors when the adopter base isn't big enough. More promotion from
> > the project to potential adopters through all kinds of media (social,
> > event, etc) is key to building the reputation of the product and project!
> > I
> > suggest getting more people to have access to the tweet medium is a
> start.
> >
> > Yes, the upcoming ApacheCon EU in Seville, Spain is an opportunity to
> > reach
> > out to contributors of other projects of the ASF. I didn't check last 2
> > events (EU 2015 in Budapest where Rohit did a (few) presentation(s) and
> US
> > 2016 in Montreal) whether that generated some buy-in. Maybe someone knows
> > more about this.
> >
> > Re: other podlings graduating with less diversity
> > That (an)other podling(s) has/have succeeded in graduating with less
> > diversity isn't a guarantee. Public opinion can shift, so can the opinion
> > of IPMC members. Yet, if we feel confident that we can succeed with what
> > we
> > have now (diversity wise) and we are confident that we can convince the
> > IPMC we should go for it. But, before embarking on that voyage I would
> > like
> > to see a buy-in from our mentors.
> >
> > I trust the above will help.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > OFBiz based solutions & services
> >
> > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Hans Zeller <ha...@esgyn.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Pierre, thank you for bringing this up. I agree that we need to
> > consider
> > > new things to do to increase our diversity. You are familiar with the
> > > Apache community, do you have any observations or suggestions?
> > >
> > > When I look at the just-graduated Apache Kudu, I see that it also lacks
> > > diversity, but that it is better connected to other Apache projects.
> > > Many
> > > of the Kudu committers are also committers for Hadoop, HBase and other
> > > projects. Maybe we should try to be more active elsewhere, for example
> > > in
> > > HBase?
> > >
> > > Another direction is to expand the user community and to get users to
> > > contribute, even if it's only in small ways.
> > >
> > > A third one could be to be more active at conferences and events,
> > > especially those organized by ASF or other open source organizations.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > >
> > > Hans
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > HI Ming,
> > > >
> > > > Having confirmation of the contributor regarding his/her intent to do
> > > more
> > > > (through confirmation of the iCLA accepted by the Secretary of the
> > > > ASF)
> > > is
> > > > enough to get the person listed in the
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
> > > >
> > > > As you can learn form the overview IDs regarding Confluence and JIRA
> > need
> > > > to be known to grant the applicant the correct permissions in the 2
> > tools
> > > > in use.
> > > >
> > > > So, having done code commits (which requires acceptance by the
> > > contributor
> > > > of the invitation to become a committer from the PPMC, and an Apache
> > ID),
> > > > or not having done Confluence updates, etc. is *not* a requirement to
> > be
> > > > listed/accepted as a contributor who wants to do more.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Pierre Smits
> > > >
> > > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > > >
> > > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Liu, Ming (Ming) <
> ming.liu@esgyn.cn>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very
> > > > > complex
> > > > > system software.
> > > > > So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for
> > > > > beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting
> > point.
> > > > >
> > > > > I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA
> 2133
> > as
> > > > an
> > > > > example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to
> > get
> > > > > started I hope.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know some people not from current contribution groups already
> > singed
> > > > the
> > > > > iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once
> > > they
> > > > > deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as
> > > > > 'contributor' ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Ming
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
> > > > > To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Working towards graduation
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF
> > > > > Incubation,
> > > we
> > > > > are on the right track building our experience regarding release
> > > > management
> > > > > in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our
> > > > > code
> > > > base
> > > > > for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the
> > > > project.
> > > > > According to
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors
> > > (per
> > > > > 27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the
> PPMC
> > > > flags
> > > > > shows following affiliation:
> > > > >
> > > > > - Esgyn: 9 contributors
> > > > > - Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
> > > > >
> > > > > We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise
> > - I
> > > > > feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Pierre Smits
> > > > >
> > > > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > > > >
> > > > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Gunnar
> *If you think you can you can, if you think you can't you're right.*
>
RE: Working towards graduation
Posted by Rohit Jain <ro...@esgyn.com>.
Here is how Kudu has documented all their participation
http://kudu.apache.org/community.html
We need to do the same.
Rohit
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunnar Tapper [mailto:tapper.gunnar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 1:00 PM
To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Working towards graduation
I think we might be underpromoting how much Trafodion is being presented.
For example, here's Rohit's list:
· China Hadoop Summit, Shanghai, July ‘15
· ApacheCon Big Data Europe, Sept ‘15
· Strata + Hadoop World, San Jose, Mar ‘16
· ApacheCon Big Data NA, May ‘16
· HBaseCon, San Francisco, May ‘16
· Data Day Seattle, July ‘16
· Meetups in New York Oct ‘15, Austin Data Geeks Feb ’25, Houston
Hadoop Nov ’14, Bay Area HBase Jul ‘14
There are more on this list, both in the US and other places by myself,
Dave, Hans, and Rao.
After watching Kudo graduate, diversity seems like a red herring: all
committers but one come from the same company.
Also, there's a lot of activity around China around Trafodion including a
WeChat group, the documentation being translated into Chinese, university
people joining up, etc.
Is the problem here that we don't have a comprehensive list of community
activities? I recommend that we the project create a discussion thread on
all presentations and other activities so that we can gather it in one
place.
Gunnar
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Hans, all,
>
> Diversity can come from any angle: company affiliation, software
> developers
> vs consultants/promotors etc.
>
> I suggest to take a look beyond the box and assess everyone participating
> regarding their potential.
>
> Yes, solicitation contributors from other ASF projects is a potential
> solutions. Especially when there is an opportunity for pollination.
>
> Expanding the adopter base and expanding the contributor base (leading to
> more diversity in the subset of privileged contributors) seems to be a
> chicken-egg situation. Adopter won't buy when the product (and the
> project)
> doesn't gather much street creds. And the project won't get more
> contributors when the adopter base isn't big enough. More promotion from
> the project to potential adopters through all kinds of media (social,
> event, etc) is key to building the reputation of the product and project!
> I
> suggest getting more people to have access to the tweet medium is a start.
>
> Yes, the upcoming ApacheCon EU in Seville, Spain is an opportunity to
> reach
> out to contributors of other projects of the ASF. I didn't check last 2
> events (EU 2015 in Budapest where Rohit did a (few) presentation(s) and US
> 2016 in Montreal) whether that generated some buy-in. Maybe someone knows
> more about this.
>
> Re: other podlings graduating with less diversity
> That (an)other podling(s) has/have succeeded in graduating with less
> diversity isn't a guarantee. Public opinion can shift, so can the opinion
> of IPMC members. Yet, if we feel confident that we can succeed with what
> we
> have now (diversity wise) and we are confident that we can convince the
> IPMC we should go for it. But, before embarking on that voyage I would
> like
> to see a buy-in from our mentors.
>
> I trust the above will help.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Hans Zeller <ha...@esgyn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pierre, thank you for bringing this up. I agree that we need to
> consider
> > new things to do to increase our diversity. You are familiar with the
> > Apache community, do you have any observations or suggestions?
> >
> > When I look at the just-graduated Apache Kudu, I see that it also lacks
> > diversity, but that it is better connected to other Apache projects.
> > Many
> > of the Kudu committers are also committers for Hadoop, HBase and other
> > projects. Maybe we should try to be more active elsewhere, for example
> > in
> > HBase?
> >
> > Another direction is to expand the user community and to get users to
> > contribute, even if it's only in small ways.
> >
> > A third one could be to be more active at conferences and events,
> > especially those organized by ASF or other open source organizations.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > HI Ming,
> > >
> > > Having confirmation of the contributor regarding his/her intent to do
> > more
> > > (through confirmation of the iCLA accepted by the Secretary of the
> > > ASF)
> > is
> > > enough to get the person listed in the
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
> > >
> > > As you can learn form the overview IDs regarding Confluence and JIRA
> need
> > > to be known to grant the applicant the correct permissions in the 2
> tools
> > > in use.
> > >
> > > So, having done code commits (which requires acceptance by the
> > contributor
> > > of the invitation to become a committer from the PPMC, and an Apache
> ID),
> > > or not having done Confluence updates, etc. is *not* a requirement to
> be
> > > listed/accepted as a contributor who wants to do more.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > >
> > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Liu, Ming (Ming) <mi...@esgyn.cn>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very
> > > > complex
> > > > system software.
> > > > So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for
> > > > beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting
> point.
> > > >
> > > > I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA 2133
> as
> > > an
> > > > example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to
> get
> > > > started I hope.
> > > >
> > > > I know some people not from current contribution groups already
> singed
> > > the
> > > > iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once
> > they
> > > > deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as
> > > > 'contributor' ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ming
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
> > > > To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Working towards graduation
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF
> > > > Incubation,
> > we
> > > > are on the right track building our experience regarding release
> > > management
> > > > in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our
> > > > code
> > > base
> > > > for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the
> > > project.
> > > > According to
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors
> > (per
> > > > 27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
> > > >
> > > > Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC
> > > flags
> > > > shows following affiliation:
> > > >
> > > > - Esgyn: 9 contributors
> > > > - Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
> > > >
> > > > We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise
> - I
> > > > feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pierre Smits
> > > >
> > > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > > >
> > > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
Thanks,
Gunnar
*If you think you can you can, if you think you can't you're right.*
Re: Working towards graduation
Posted by Gunnar Tapper <ta...@gmail.com>.
I think we might be underpromoting how much Trafodion is being presented.
For example, here's Rohit's list:
· China Hadoop Summit, Shanghai, July ‘15
· ApacheCon Big Data Europe, Sept ‘15
· Strata + Hadoop World, San Jose, Mar ‘16
· ApacheCon Big Data NA, May ‘16
· HBaseCon, San Francisco, May ‘16
· Data Day Seattle, July ‘16
· Meetups in New York Oct ‘15, Austin Data Geeks Feb ’25, Houston
Hadoop Nov ’14, Bay Area HBase Jul ‘14
There are more on this list, both in the US and other places by myself,
Dave, Hans, and Rao.
After watching Kudo graduate, diversity seems like a red herring: all
committers but one come from the same company.
Also, there's a lot of activity around China around Trafodion including a
WeChat group, the documentation being translated into Chinese, university
people joining up, etc.
Is the problem here that we don't have a comprehensive list of community
activities? I recommend that we the project create a discussion thread on
all presentations and other activities so that we can gather it in one
place.
Gunnar
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Hans, all,
>
> Diversity can come from any angle: company affiliation, software developers
> vs consultants/promotors etc.
>
> I suggest to take a look beyond the box and assess everyone participating
> regarding their potential.
>
> Yes, solicitation contributors from other ASF projects is a potential
> solutions. Especially when there is an opportunity for pollination.
>
> Expanding the adopter base and expanding the contributor base (leading to
> more diversity in the subset of privileged contributors) seems to be a
> chicken-egg situation. Adopter won't buy when the product (and the project)
> doesn't gather much street creds. And the project won't get more
> contributors when the adopter base isn't big enough. More promotion from
> the project to potential adopters through all kinds of media (social,
> event, etc) is key to building the reputation of the product and project! I
> suggest getting more people to have access to the tweet medium is a start.
>
> Yes, the upcoming ApacheCon EU in Seville, Spain is an opportunity to reach
> out to contributors of other projects of the ASF. I didn't check last 2
> events (EU 2015 in Budapest where Rohit did a (few) presentation(s) and US
> 2016 in Montreal) whether that generated some buy-in. Maybe someone knows
> more about this.
>
> Re: other podlings graduating with less diversity
> That (an)other podling(s) has/have succeeded in graduating with less
> diversity isn't a guarantee. Public opinion can shift, so can the opinion
> of IPMC members. Yet, if we feel confident that we can succeed with what we
> have now (diversity wise) and we are confident that we can convince the
> IPMC we should go for it. But, before embarking on that voyage I would like
> to see a buy-in from our mentors.
>
> I trust the above will help.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Hans Zeller <ha...@esgyn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pierre, thank you for bringing this up. I agree that we need to
> consider
> > new things to do to increase our diversity. You are familiar with the
> > Apache community, do you have any observations or suggestions?
> >
> > When I look at the just-graduated Apache Kudu, I see that it also lacks
> > diversity, but that it is better connected to other Apache projects. Many
> > of the Kudu committers are also committers for Hadoop, HBase and other
> > projects. Maybe we should try to be more active elsewhere, for example in
> > HBase?
> >
> > Another direction is to expand the user community and to get users to
> > contribute, even if it's only in small ways.
> >
> > A third one could be to be more active at conferences and events,
> > especially those organized by ASF or other open source organizations.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > HI Ming,
> > >
> > > Having confirmation of the contributor regarding his/her intent to do
> > more
> > > (through confirmation of the iCLA accepted by the Secretary of the ASF)
> > is
> > > enough to get the person listed in the
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
> > >
> > > As you can learn form the overview IDs regarding Confluence and JIRA
> need
> > > to be known to grant the applicant the correct permissions in the 2
> tools
> > > in use.
> > >
> > > So, having done code commits (which requires acceptance by the
> > contributor
> > > of the invitation to become a committer from the PPMC, and an Apache
> ID),
> > > or not having done Confluence updates, etc. is *not* a requirement to
> be
> > > listed/accepted as a contributor who wants to do more.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > >
> > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Liu, Ming (Ming) <mi...@esgyn.cn>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very complex
> > > > system software.
> > > > So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for
> > > > beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting
> point.
> > > >
> > > > I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA 2133
> as
> > > an
> > > > example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to
> get
> > > > started I hope.
> > > >
> > > > I know some people not from current contribution groups already
> singed
> > > the
> > > > iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once
> > they
> > > > deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as
> > > > 'contributor' ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ming
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
> > > > To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Working towards graduation
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation,
> > we
> > > > are on the right track building our experience regarding release
> > > management
> > > > in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code
> > > base
> > > > for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the
> > > project.
> > > > According to
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors
> > (per
> > > > 27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
> > > >
> > > > Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC
> > > flags
> > > > shows following affiliation:
> > > >
> > > > - Esgyn: 9 contributors
> > > > - Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
> > > >
> > > > We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise
> - I
> > > > feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pierre Smits
> > > >
> > > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > > >
> > > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
Thanks,
Gunnar
*If you think you can you can, if you think you can't you're right.*
Re: Working towards graduation
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Hi Hans, all,
Diversity can come from any angle: company affiliation, software developers
vs consultants/promotors etc.
I suggest to take a look beyond the box and assess everyone participating
regarding their potential.
Yes, solicitation contributors from other ASF projects is a potential
solutions. Especially when there is an opportunity for pollination.
Expanding the adopter base and expanding the contributor base (leading to
more diversity in the subset of privileged contributors) seems to be a
chicken-egg situation. Adopter won't buy when the product (and the project)
doesn't gather much street creds. And the project won't get more
contributors when the adopter base isn't big enough. More promotion from
the project to potential adopters through all kinds of media (social,
event, etc) is key to building the reputation of the product and project! I
suggest getting more people to have access to the tweet medium is a start.
Yes, the upcoming ApacheCon EU in Seville, Spain is an opportunity to reach
out to contributors of other projects of the ASF. I didn't check last 2
events (EU 2015 in Budapest where Rohit did a (few) presentation(s) and US
2016 in Montreal) whether that generated some buy-in. Maybe someone knows
more about this.
Re: other podlings graduating with less diversity
That (an)other podling(s) has/have succeeded in graduating with less
diversity isn't a guarantee. Public opinion can shift, so can the opinion
of IPMC members. Yet, if we feel confident that we can succeed with what we
have now (diversity wise) and we are confident that we can convince the
IPMC we should go for it. But, before embarking on that voyage I would like
to see a buy-in from our mentors.
I trust the above will help.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services
OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Hans Zeller <ha...@esgyn.com> wrote:
> Hi Pierre, thank you for bringing this up. I agree that we need to consider
> new things to do to increase our diversity. You are familiar with the
> Apache community, do you have any observations or suggestions?
>
> When I look at the just-graduated Apache Kudu, I see that it also lacks
> diversity, but that it is better connected to other Apache projects. Many
> of the Kudu committers are also committers for Hadoop, HBase and other
> projects. Maybe we should try to be more active elsewhere, for example in
> HBase?
>
> Another direction is to expand the user community and to get users to
> contribute, even if it's only in small ways.
>
> A third one could be to be more active at conferences and events,
> especially those organized by ASF or other open source organizations.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Hans
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > HI Ming,
> >
> > Having confirmation of the contributor regarding his/her intent to do
> more
> > (through confirmation of the iCLA accepted by the Secretary of the ASF)
> is
> > enough to get the person listed in the
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
> >
> > As you can learn form the overview IDs regarding Confluence and JIRA need
> > to be known to grant the applicant the correct permissions in the 2 tools
> > in use.
> >
> > So, having done code commits (which requires acceptance by the
> contributor
> > of the invitation to become a committer from the PPMC, and an Apache ID),
> > or not having done Confluence updates, etc. is *not* a requirement to be
> > listed/accepted as a contributor who wants to do more.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > OFBiz based solutions & services
> >
> > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Liu, Ming (Ming) <mi...@esgyn.cn>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very complex
> > > system software.
> > > So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for
> > > beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting point.
> > >
> > > I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA 2133 as
> > an
> > > example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to get
> > > started I hope.
> > >
> > > I know some people not from current contribution groups already singed
> > the
> > > iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once
> they
> > > deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as
> > > 'contributor' ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ming
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
> > > To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Working towards graduation
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation,
> we
> > > are on the right track building our experience regarding release
> > management
> > > in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
> > >
> > > I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code
> > base
> > > for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the
> > project.
> > > According to
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors
> (per
> > > 27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
> > >
> > > Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC
> > flags
> > > shows following affiliation:
> > >
> > > - Esgyn: 9 contributors
> > > - Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
> > >
> > > We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise - I
> > > feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
> > >
> > > Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > > OFBiz based solutions & services
> > >
> > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> > >
> >
>
Re: Working towards graduation
Posted by Hans Zeller <ha...@esgyn.com>.
Hi Pierre, thank you for bringing this up. I agree that we need to consider
new things to do to increase our diversity. You are familiar with the
Apache community, do you have any observations or suggestions?
When I look at the just-graduated Apache Kudu, I see that it also lacks
diversity, but that it is better connected to other Apache projects. Many
of the Kudu committers are also committers for Hadoop, HBase and other
projects. Maybe we should try to be more active elsewhere, for example in
HBase?
Another direction is to expand the user community and to get users to
contribute, even if it's only in small ways.
A third one could be to be more active at conferences and events,
especially those organized by ASF or other open source organizations.
Thanks again,
Hans
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> HI Ming,
>
> Having confirmation of the contributor regarding his/her intent to do more
> (through confirmation of the iCLA accepted by the Secretary of the ASF) is
> enough to get the person listed in the
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
>
> As you can learn form the overview IDs regarding Confluence and JIRA need
> to be known to grant the applicant the correct permissions in the 2 tools
> in use.
>
> So, having done code commits (which requires acceptance by the contributor
> of the invitation to become a committer from the PPMC, and an Apache ID),
> or not having done Confluence updates, etc. is *not* a requirement to be
> listed/accepted as a contributor who wants to do more.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Liu, Ming (Ming) <mi...@esgyn.cn>
> wrote:
>
> > New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very complex
> > system software.
> > So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for
> > beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting point.
> >
> > I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA 2133 as
> an
> > example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to get
> > started I hope.
> >
> > I know some people not from current contribution groups already singed
> the
> > iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once they
> > deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as
> > 'contributor' ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
> > To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Working towards graduation
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation, we
> > are on the right track building our experience regarding release
> management
> > in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
> >
> > I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code
> base
> > for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the
> project.
> > According to
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors (per
> > 27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
> >
> > Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC
> flags
> > shows following affiliation:
> >
> > - Esgyn: 9 contributors
> > - Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
> >
> > We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise - I
> > feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
> >
> > Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > OFBiz based solutions & services
> >
> > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> >
>
Re: Working towards graduation
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
HI Ming,
Having confirmation of the contributor regarding his/her intent to do more
(through confirmation of the iCLA accepted by the Secretary of the ASF) is
enough to get the person listed in the
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
As you can learn form the overview IDs regarding Confluence and JIRA need
to be known to grant the applicant the correct permissions in the 2 tools
in use.
So, having done code commits (which requires acceptance by the contributor
of the invitation to become a committer from the PPMC, and an Apache ID),
or not having done Confluence updates, etc. is *not* a requirement to be
listed/accepted as a contributor who wants to do more.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services
OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Liu, Ming (Ming) <mi...@esgyn.cn>
wrote:
> New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very complex
> system software.
> So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for
> beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting point.
>
> I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA 2133 as an
> example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to get
> started I hope.
>
> I know some people not from current contribution groups already singed the
> iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once they
> deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as
> 'contributor' ?
>
> Thanks,
> Ming
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
> To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Working towards graduation
>
> Hi all,
>
> With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation, we
> are on the right track building our experience regarding release management
> in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
>
> I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code base
> for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the project.
> According to
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors (per
> 27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
>
> Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC flags
> shows following affiliation:
>
> - Esgyn: 9 contributors
> - Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
>
> We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise - I
> feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
>
> Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
RE: Working towards graduation
Posted by "Liu, Ming (Ming)" <mi...@esgyn.cn>.
New contributor need time to get started, Trafodion is a very complex system software.
So it will be helpful to have some JIRAs that are simple enough for beginners to work on. Documentation is also a very good starting point.
I notice the JIRA can has label as 'newbie', I just create JIRA 2133 as an example. It will be something simple enough for new contributor to get started I hope.
I know some people not from current contribution groups already singed the iCLA document and want to contribute to Trafodion. So I assume once they deliver code commit or wiki update, they will be considered as 'contributor' ?
Thanks,
Ming
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Working towards graduation
Hi all,
With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation, we are on the right track building our experience regarding release management in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code base for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the project.
According to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors (per
27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC flags shows following affiliation:
- Esgyn: 9 contributors
- Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise - I feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services
OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
RE: Working towards graduation
Posted by "Jin, Jian (Seth)" <Ji...@esgyn.cn>.
It seem the contributor list is out of date, the contributor list should be longer than that.
Br,
Seth
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.smits@gmail.com]
Sent: 2016年7月28日 15:40
To: dev@trafodion.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Working towards graduation
Hi all,
With 2 releases out since the start under the flag of ASF Incubation, we are on the right track building our experience regarding release management in relation to compliance to the ASF rules and guidelines.
I suggest we now - while not forgetting to work on improving our code base for future releases - start working on the community aspect of the project.
According to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors (per
27-07-2016) we have a healthy number of contributors.
Yet diversity is a bit low. The subset of contributors with the PPMC flags shows following affiliation:
- Esgyn: 9 contributors
- Hewlett Packard: 3 contributors
We need to work on getting more diversity in that subset. Otherwise - I feel - the IPMC will have issues with our graduation.
Any ideas how to achieve that diversity?
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services
OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/