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Posted to user@couchdb.apache.org by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> on 2010/04/13 13:12:20 UTC
CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Hi all,
I've recently fallen head-over-heels in love with CouchDB. However, this
(my first) email will probably be at best, constructively critical, and at
worst, offensive, but:
Does the CouchDB project have any agreed visual brand identity, or is it
being worked on? I speak mainly of the pages at
http://couchdb.apache.org/. I'm the kind of person that judges a book
by its cover, and it took
considerable effort for me to stop my eyes being repelled from that page.
Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
active comparison.
CouchDB's slogan is "relax", but that web design gets me all agitated.
There's no room to breathe: logotype squished into a corner, small font,
subheadings imprisoned in dark green cells. No ample footer telling me I've
reached the end of the page and where I should go next; just a niggardly
copyright notice. Rather than relaxing, the guy on the sofa looks like he's
trying to squirm as far away from the page as possible.
The sofa logo I'm not particularly opposed to, but: entirely saturated
primary red? That's the universal visual symbol for "PANIC!". I have this
passage from The Vagina Monologues indelibly imprinted on my memory:
---
Then he began to undress me.
"What are you doing, Bob?" I said.
"I need to see you," he replied.
"No need," I said. "Just dive in."
"I need to see what you look like," he said.
"But you've seen a red leather couch before," I said.
---
... blech.
And: who could ever relax on such an angular sofa?
The index page just doesn't sell it. A needless <h1> "The CouchDB Project"
tells me what I already know from looking at the logotype. The messy design
schema, which could be a quirky feature (though its appearance on the first
page is questionable), instead sits awkwardly on top of other headers and
squashing text out of the way, with an inappropriate yellow background that
together with the green suggests vomit (oh dear, on my nice new sofa).
There's no big bold text telling me that I should use CouchDB.
The first paragraph: "Apache CouchDB is a document-oriented database that
can be queried and indexed in a MapReduce fashion using JavaScript. CouchDB
also offers incremental replication with bi-directional conflict detection
and resolution." This jumps into jargon way too soon -- as a prospective
user, the first thing I want to hear is something simple, comforting, and
whetting my appetite: "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
Next, the colour scheme. Red and dark-half-saturated green (I'm not even
sure whether that colour has a name)? Under no system of colour theory is
that an appropriate combination. I suspect it hasn't consciously been
decided upon as a palette -- the red appears nowhere else.
What's with the needless breadcrumb trail across my entire 2000px-wide
screen? It might be appropriate for a massive site where getting lost is
easier than finding anything, but not here where every page is easily listed
down the left.
And the diagonal pinstripe background -- that's so 2003. Nothing else on
the site implies that 45 degree angle. Get rid of it.
Futon displays a different scheme: red with shades of grey. The slogan,
"relax," sits in a different place to the same slogan in the logotype on the
website. The text sits under, rather than aside, the sofa logo. The
"contract the sidebar" arrow inexplicably points up rather than to the
right.
I'm getting into nitty-gritty now, but I hope I've made a point: CouchDB is
surely losing users by pushing them away with bad design. The main slogan,
"relax," I really, really like, but it unfortunately doesn't come across
anywhere. It should. The whole visual design specification should use this
one word as its starting point.
I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
undertaking.
Opinions?
James Fisher
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Joe Williams wrote:
>
> Fair enough but even then our first impression may be our last. I would say our website should send the right message, whatever that might be. In my mind it is that Couch is a robust, durable datastore for real people and enterprises. At the end of the day Couch can be an "enterprise solution", it is for the BBC, as well as something your grandma uses to store recipes.
>
> -Joe
>
I've said this before, so I don't want to be broken record, but I'm strongly in favor of a more boring heading font (like Myriad or even Helvetica if we're sticking with web fonts)
I like the rest of the playfulness.
Chris
>
>
> On 4/14/10 12:03 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
>> On 14 Apr 2010, at 19:59, Joe Williams wrote:
>>
>>
>>> First, thanks for taking the time to work on a new site. Overall I think the new design is pretty slick. I am not even remotely a designer so I don't have solutions to my critiques but here are the couple of things that popped in my head. First are the fonts, my initial thought was "Is that Comic Sans?!". :) My second thought (possibly related to the first) was it looks a little toy-ish. My thought is that the CouchDB site should represent the roubust, durable datastore that Couch is.
>>>
>> Disagree. Playful is en vogue.
>>
>> We're not marketing an "enterprise solution" we're marketing a database for real people.
>>
>
> --
> Name: Joseph A. Williams
> Email: joe@joetify.com
> Blog: http://www.joeandmotorboat.com/
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Joe Williams <jo...@joetify.com>.
Fair enough but even then our first impression may be our last. I would
say our website should send the right message, whatever that might be.
In my mind it is that Couch is a robust, durable datastore for real
people and enterprises. At the end of the day Couch can be an
"enterprise solution", it is for the BBC, as well as something your
grandma uses to store recipes.
-Joe
On 4/14/10 12:03 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2010, at 19:59, Joe Williams wrote:
>
>
>> First, thanks for taking the time to work on a new site. Overall I think the new design is pretty slick. I am not even remotely a designer so I don't have solutions to my critiques but here are the couple of things that popped in my head. First are the fonts, my initial thought was "Is that Comic Sans?!". :) My second thought (possibly related to the first) was it looks a little toy-ish. My thought is that the CouchDB site should represent the roubust, durable datastore that Couch is.
>>
> Disagree. Playful is en vogue.
>
> We're not marketing an "enterprise solution" we're marketing a database for real people.
>
--
Name: Joseph A. Williams
Email: joe@joetify.com
Blog: http://www.joeandmotorboat.com/
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 14 Apr 2010, at 19:59, Joe Williams wrote:
>
> First, thanks for taking the time to work on a new site. Overall I think the new design is pretty slick. I am not even remotely a designer so I don't have solutions to my critiques but here are the couple of things that popped in my head. First are the fonts, my initial thought was "Is that Comic Sans?!". :) My second thought (possibly related to the first) was it looks a little toy-ish. My thought is that the CouchDB site should represent the roubust, durable datastore that Couch is.
Disagree. Playful is en vogue.
We're not marketing an "enterprise solution" we're marketing a database for real people.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Joe Williams <jo...@joetify.com>.
First, thanks for taking the time to work on a new site. Overall I think
the new design is pretty slick. I am not even remotely a designer so I
don't have solutions to my critiques but here are the couple of things
that popped in my head. First are the fonts, my initial thought was "Is
that Comic Sans?!". :) My second thought (possibly related to the first)
was it looks a little toy-ish. My thought is that the CouchDB site
should represent the roubust, durable datastore that Couch is.
-Joe
On 4/14/10 11:03 AM, Adam Kocoloski wrote:
> This is very nice. I think Myriad was a good font for the logo, though.
>
> I do like the "of the web" quote from Jacob, but now we've got CouchDB "for the Web" in one place, and "of the web" in contrast to "for the web" in the quote. Perhaps it's best to just have the short old-school thing after all?
>
> Below the fold things are a bit wordy. I definitely like the extra space on the right for the 5 bullet points. Not sure what would be best on the left. Maybe the more detailed links under "Get It/See It/Learn It/Support It" should be down there? But I'm no designer.
>
> One other thing I really liked about maadin's earlier proposal was that it gave the wiki the same look-n-feel as the main site. I don't know what we're ultimately planning on doing re: docs -- tisba has done a yeoman's job gardening the wiki, there's that couchdocs thing on github, I heard jchris was working on a couchapp -- but whatever we do, it would be cool to apply this same theme to it. Cheers,
>
> Adam
>
> On Apr 14, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:
>
>
>> I must say that I really like this design!
>>
>> -warner
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:01 AM, James Fisher<ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I invite you all to http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web -- the state of
>>> things at present. I've HTMLized the sketches quite faithfully, and it
>>> renders fine in Firefox (3.5.9) and Konqueror. Opinions, please.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, J Chris Anderson<jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 14, 2010, at 4:25 AM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
>>>>> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
>>>>> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>>>>>
>>>>> * lighter, less saturated cyan
>>>>> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
>>>>> extremely ample air around them
>>>>> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
>>>>> * sponsor logos removed
>>>>> * content section widened to full width
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I think I prefer the cushions (even if they were a bit cute)& the 2 column
>>>> layout. If my copy won't fit in the space on the 2 column layout, we can
>>>> always make it shorter. I for one don't think there's anything wrong with
>>>> having a long column.
>>>>
>>>> (Picturing the previous layout in my head) Perhaps the schematic could go
>>>> just below the cushions, so that the cushions + schematic are column A, and
>>>> the longer copy is column B.
>>>>
>>>> Or if not cushions, the links to the sections (without cushions).
>>>>
>>>> I think the sparse header of the previous layout is part of what makes it.
>>>> Nothing but the quote and the lamp... very classy. Adding all the links up
>>>> there breaks the appeal a bit.
>>>>
>>>> Good work on the colors. I'm still missing the old logo-font. There are
>>>> fully typographed versions of the logo available here:
>>>>
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz<
>>>>>
>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>>>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>>>>>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
>>>>>>>>
>>>> context
>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>>>>>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>>>>>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>>>>>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>>>>>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>>>>>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>> julian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
--
Name: Joseph A. Williams
Email: joe@joetify.com
Blog: http://www.joeandmotorboat.com/
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Adam Kocoloski <ko...@apache.org>.
This is very nice. I think Myriad was a good font for the logo, though.
I do like the "of the web" quote from Jacob, but now we've got CouchDB "for the Web" in one place, and "of the web" in contrast to "for the web" in the quote. Perhaps it's best to just have the short old-school thing after all?
Below the fold things are a bit wordy. I definitely like the extra space on the right for the 5 bullet points. Not sure what would be best on the left. Maybe the more detailed links under "Get It/See It/Learn It/Support It" should be down there? But I'm no designer.
One other thing I really liked about maadin's earlier proposal was that it gave the wiki the same look-n-feel as the main site. I don't know what we're ultimately planning on doing re: docs -- tisba has done a yeoman's job gardening the wiki, there's that couchdocs thing on github, I heard jchris was working on a couchapp -- but whatever we do, it would be cool to apply this same theme to it. Cheers,
Adam
On Apr 14, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:
> I must say that I really like this design!
>
> -warner
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:01 AM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I invite you all to http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web -- the state of
>> things at present. I've HTMLized the sketches quite faithfully, and it
>> renders fine in Firefox (3.5.9) and Konqueror. Opinions, please.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 14, 2010, at 4:25 AM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
>>>> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
>>>> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>>>>
>>>> * lighter, less saturated cyan
>>>> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
>>>> extremely ample air around them
>>>> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
>>>> * sponsor logos removed
>>>> * content section widened to full width
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think I prefer the cushions (even if they were a bit cute) & the 2 column
>>> layout. If my copy won't fit in the space on the 2 column layout, we can
>>> always make it shorter. I for one don't think there's anything wrong with
>>> having a long column.
>>>
>>> (Picturing the previous layout in my head) Perhaps the schematic could go
>>> just below the cushions, so that the cushions + schematic are column A, and
>>> the longer copy is column B.
>>>
>>> Or if not cushions, the links to the sections (without cushions).
>>>
>>> I think the sparse header of the previous layout is part of what makes it.
>>> Nothing but the quote and the lamp... very classy. Adding all the links up
>>> there breaks the appeal a bit.
>>>
>>> Good work on the colors. I'm still missing the old logo-font. There are
>>> fully typographed versions of the logo available here:
>>>
>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <
>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>>>>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
>>> context
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>>>>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>>>>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>>>>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>>>>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>>>>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>> julian
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Warner Onstine <wa...@gmail.com>.
I must say that I really like this design!
-warner
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:01 AM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I invite you all to http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web -- the state of
> things at present. I've HTMLized the sketches quite faithfully, and it
> renders fine in Firefox (3.5.9) and Konqueror. Opinions, please.
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2010, at 4:25 AM, James Fisher wrote:
>>
>> > OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
>> > things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
>> > redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>> >
>> > Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>> >
>> > * lighter, less saturated cyan
>> > * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
>> > extremely ample air around them
>> > * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
>> > * sponsor logos removed
>> > * content section widened to full width
>> >
>> > Comments?
>> >
>>
>> I think I prefer the cushions (even if they were a bit cute) & the 2 column
>> layout. If my copy won't fit in the space on the 2 column layout, we can
>> always make it shorter. I for one don't think there's anything wrong with
>> having a long column.
>>
>> (Picturing the previous layout in my head) Perhaps the schematic could go
>> just below the cushions, so that the cushions + schematic are column A, and
>> the longer copy is column B.
>>
>> Or if not cushions, the links to the sections (without cushions).
>>
>> I think the sparse header of the previous layout is part of what makes it.
>> Nothing but the quote and the lamp... very classy. Adding all the links up
>> there breaks the appeal a bit.
>>
>> Good work on the colors. I'm still missing the old logo-font. There are
>> fully typographed versions of the logo available here:
>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <
>> mailings@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> David Coallier schrieb:
>> >>> <snip>
>> >>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>> >>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>> >>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
>> context
>> >> in
>> >>>> which it's at home.
>> >>>>
>> >>> <snip>
>> >>>
>> >>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>> >>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>> >>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>> >> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>> >> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>> >> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>> >>
>> >> regards
>> >> julian
>> >>
>>
>>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
I invite you all to http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web -- the state of
things at present. I've HTMLized the sketches quite faithfully, and it
renders fine in Firefox (3.5.9) and Konqueror. Opinions, please.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 14, 2010, at 4:25 AM, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> > things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> > redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
> >
> > Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
> >
> > * lighter, less saturated cyan
> > * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> > extremely ample air around them
> > * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> > * sponsor logos removed
> > * content section widened to full width
> >
> > Comments?
> >
>
> I think I prefer the cushions (even if they were a bit cute) & the 2 column
> layout. If my copy won't fit in the space on the 2 column layout, we can
> always make it shorter. I for one don't think there's anything wrong with
> having a long column.
>
> (Picturing the previous layout in my head) Perhaps the schematic could go
> just below the cushions, so that the cushions + schematic are column A, and
> the longer copy is column B.
>
> Or if not cushions, the links to the sections (without cushions).
>
> I think the sparse header of the previous layout is part of what makes it.
> Nothing but the quote and the lamp... very classy. Adding all the links up
> there breaks the appeal a bit.
>
> Good work on the colors. I'm still missing the old logo-font. There are
> fully typographed versions of the logo available here:
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <
> mailings@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> David Coallier schrieb:
> >>> <snip>
> >>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
> >>>>
> >>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
> >>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
> >>>>
> >>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
> >>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
> context
> >> in
> >>>> which it's at home.
> >>>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>
> >>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
> >>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
> >>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
> >> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
> >> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
> >> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
> >>
> >> regards
> >> julian
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 14, 2010, at 4:25 AM, James Fisher wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>
> * lighter, less saturated cyan
> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> extremely ample air around them
> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> * sponsor logos removed
> * content section widened to full width
>
> Comments?
>
I think I prefer the cushions (even if they were a bit cute) & the 2 column layout. If my copy won't fit in the space on the 2 column layout, we can always make it shorter. I for one don't think there's anything wrong with having a long column.
(Picturing the previous layout in my head) Perhaps the schematic could go just below the cushions, so that the cushions + schematic are column A, and the longer copy is column B.
Or if not cushions, the links to the sections (without cushions).
I think the sparse header of the previous layout is part of what makes it. Nothing but the quote and the lamp... very classy. Adding all the links up there breaks the appeal a bit.
Good work on the colors. I'm still missing the old logo-font. There are fully typographed versions of the logo available here:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
Cheers,
Chris
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>> <snip>
>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>
>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>
>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context
>> in
>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>
>>
>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>
>> regards
>> julian
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>.
When you redo the schema diagram, it's probably time to drop the
lucene box, since it's not part of couch.
B.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:25 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>
> * lighter, less saturated cyan
> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> extremely ample air around them
> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> * sponsor logos removed
> * content section widened to full width
>
> Comments?
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> David Coallier schrieb:
>> > <snip>
>> >> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>> >>
>> >> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>> >> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>> >>
>> >> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>> >> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context
>> in
>> >> which it's at home.
>> >>
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> > I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>> > not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>> > even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>> >
>>
>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>
>> regards
>> julian
>>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Robert Dionne <di...@dionne-associates.com>.
Sorry if I'm just jumping in here, this looks real good. Consider changing:
"for the Web" to "of the Web"
Sent from my iPad, whose keyboard is teaching me to be brief :)
On Apr 14, 2010, at 7:25 AM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>
> * lighter, less saturated cyan
> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> extremely ample air around them
> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> * sponsor logos removed
> * content section widened to full width
>
> Comments?
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>> <snip>
>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>
>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>
>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context
>> in
>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>
>>
>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>
>> regards
>> julian
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Paul Bonser <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 6:25 AM, James Fisher <jameshfisher@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> > things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> > redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
> >
>
> I know you said the diagram still needs to be redone, but I'm pretty sure
> there's no Lucene integration built-in anymore, is there?
>
>
Nope. Basically, I'm waiting for someone to confirm that the diagram sans
Lucene is still the best way of representing Couch (I'm hazy on its
internals), before I make any headway on it.
> --
> Paul Bonser
> http://probablyprogramming.com
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Paul Bonser <mi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 6:25 AM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
I know you said the diagram still needs to be redone, but I'm pretty sure
there's no Lucene integration built-in anymore, is there?
--
Paul Bonser
http://probablyprogramming.com
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Simon Metson <si...@googlemail.com>.
On 14 Apr 2010, at 13:44, Noah Slater wrote:
>> @Simon and Noah:
>>
>> Glad you like the diagram Simon, but it was never intended as
>> permanent :).
>> I have Noah's doubts of whether hand-drawn fits with the
>> impressionistic
>> plastic feel of everything else. If I were to hand-draw it, it
>> would be
>> roughly xkcd crossed with that "why's guide to ruby" thing.
>
> Sweet.
+1 xkcd is totally of the web... ;)
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 14 Apr 2010, at 13:41, James Fisher wrote:
> @Robert Dionne:
>
> Lifted from that Django quote, yeah? That's interesting -- though I don't
> know if it would sound odd without the "for the web" contrast in the
> original quote. I'll throw that decision to everyone else.
I actually prefer this quote:
"Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
> @Simon and Noah:
>
> Glad you like the diagram Simon, but it was never intended as permanent :).
> I have Noah's doubts of whether hand-drawn fits with the impressionistic
> plastic feel of everything else. If I were to hand-draw it, it would be
> roughly xkcd crossed with that "why's guide to ruby" thing.
Sweet.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
@Robert Newson:
A good point I am sure. I really only have a vague grasp of CouchDB
internals; would anyone fancy drawing up a schema of how things currently
stand? If there is anything else to add?
@Mirsal:
I do kinda agree on the five-column thing. Atm I'm thinking a two-col would
be better, using the widths implied by the couch and "goodbye, schemas..."
text. Then the five current sections could go vertically down the right.
The left could be filled with another promotional paragraph, followed by the
schema similar to the sketch currently at couchdb.apache.org.
@Robert Dionne:
Lifted from that Django quote, yeah? That's interesting -- though I don't
know if it would sound odd without the "for the web" contrast in the
original quote. I'll throw that decision to everyone else.
@Simon and Noah:
Glad you like the diagram Simon, but it was never intended as permanent :).
I have Noah's doubts of whether hand-drawn fits with the impressionistic
plastic feel of everything else. If I were to hand-draw it, it would be
roughly xkcd crossed with that "why's guide to ruby" thing.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
> Hand drawn is cool, but that looks like it was done in MS Paint! Hehe. Any
> chance if getting something a little more polished? I'm not sure about the
> whole idea of hand drawn at all... Other ideas?
>
>
>
>
> On 14 Apr 2010, at 12:25, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
>> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
>> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>>
>> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>>
>> * lighter, less saturated cyan
>> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
>> extremely ample air around them
>> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
>> * sponsor logos removed
>> * content section widened to full width
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
>> >wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>>
>>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>>
>>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
>>>>> context
>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>
>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
>>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
>>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
>>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
>>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> julian
>>>
>>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
Hand drawn is cool, but that looks like it was done in MS Paint! Hehe.
Any chance if getting something a little more polished? I'm not sure
about the whole idea of hand drawn at all... Other ideas?
On 14 Apr 2010, at 12:25, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>
> * lighter, less saturated cyan
> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> extremely ample air around them
> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> * sponsor logos removed
> * content section widened to full width
>
> Comments?
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>> <snip>
>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>
>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>
>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier,
>>>> I've
>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
>>>> context
>> in
>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure
>>> I'm
>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited,
>>> however
>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>
>>
>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but
>> I do
>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design
>> was
>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>
>> regards
>> julian
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Simon Metson <si...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
I think this looks really ace, especially the hand drawn diagram (I
hope when you say "redone" you don't mean "done with straight boring
lines in illustrator" ;)) I think some more space between the five
text columns would be good, too. I'd maybe push the get it/see it/...
up to align with the top of the Django quote and loose the odd red bar
across the bottom (unless you have something slide-ppy planned for it?).
IMHO this is a huge improvement on your v1 - that really hurt my eyes.
Cheers
Simon
On 14 Apr 2010, at 12:25, James Fisher wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>
> * lighter, less saturated cyan
> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> extremely ample air around them
> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> * sponsor logos removed
> * content section widened to full width
>
> Comments?
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> David Coallier schrieb:
>>> <snip>
>>>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>>>
>>>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>>>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>>>
>>>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier,
>>>> I've
>>>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual
>>>> context
>> in
>>>> which it's at home.
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure
>>> I'm
>>> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited,
>>> however
>>> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>>>
>>
>> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but
>> I do
>> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design
>> was
>> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
>> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>>
>> regards
>> julian
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mirsal Ennaime <mi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
> things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
> redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
>
> Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
>
> * lighter, less saturated cyan
I like that, the background looks much nicer this way
> * cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
> extremely ample air around them
It's the way to go, imo. However, the position lacks balance (maybe
moving this section a bit higher on the page would help) and I don't
like how it looks with the current typeface.
> * logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
> * sponsor logos removed
> * content section widened to full width
I dont find the 5-column layout visually appealing, it has not enough
whitespace and it makes the content section look a bit cluttered.
Also, text lines are a bit too short.
> Comments?
This is definitely better, not yet perfect though.
I hope my comments were constructive enough, keep up the good work !
--
Mirsal
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
OK, I'm still at the messing-around-in-Inkscape stage, but this is how
things stand (ignore the schema diagram thing, which will obviously be
redone): http://i43.tinypic.com/23wsapl.jpg
Hopefully I'll have quelled some people:
* lighter, less saturated cyan
* cushions obliterated; I quite like the new simple text approach with
extremely ample air around them
* logotype still in Candela, but with the extra padding removed
* sponsor logos removed
* content section widened to full width
Comments?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> David Coallier schrieb:
> > <snip>
> >> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
> >>
> >> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
> >> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
> >>
> >> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
> >> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context
> in
> >> which it's at home.
> >>
> > <snip>
> >
> > I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
> > not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
> > even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
> >
>
> I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
> like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
> the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
> font face is too comic style in my eyes.
>
> regards
> julian
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>.
Hi,
David Coallier schrieb:
> <snip>
>> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>>
>> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
>> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>>
>> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
>> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context in
>> which it's at home.
>>
> <snip>
>
> I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
> not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
> even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
>
I'm not a designer too and my opinion is not professional one, but I do
like the design too. The one thing I like more with the old design was
the sharp font face of the logo. I'm sorry but I can't help: the new
font face is too comic style in my eyes.
regards
julian
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@gmail.com>.
<snip>
> Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
>
> I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
> fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
>
> After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
> completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context in
> which it's at home.
>
<snip>
I have to say that the design with the lamp, I quite like :) Sure I'm
not a designer or anything so my input will be quite limited, however
even though a bit cyanish it looks quite decent :)
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Michael Ludwig <mi...@gmx.de>.
James Fisher schrieb am 14.04.2010 um 10:13:42 (+0100):
> > What I haven't seen so far is an overview of all the features that
> > are supported and also of those typical database features that are
> > *not* supported.
>
> Not sure what you mean. The text is partly placeholder and far from
> finalized. You mean you'd like something on the main page that says
> "What we Have but No-one Else Does"?
My remark wasn't in reference to the dummy text. It is unrelated to the
whole style and design question. It was just an attempt to indirectly
state that real content might matter more than style and design.
I'm just saying I haven't seen such a list, which would be useful to
more quickly decide whether it is worth your time giving CouchDB a
try or not. I think it wouldn't harm to have such a list among the
documentation item for first orientation of potential users.
--
Michael Ludwig
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Michael Ludwig <mi...@gmx.de> wrote:
> James Fisher schrieb am 13.04.2010 um 19:57:52 (+0100):
>
> > * I got rid of the green. To keep things dead simple I switched to
> > the exact complement of the main red -- a cyan.
>
> I strongly dislike cyan, just like magenta: these colors are aggressive
> on the eye. The screechy appearance certainly reinforces the toy appeal
> conveyed by the logo, which I agree is unfortunate, not so much for the
> color but for the electrocuted figure flung onto that couch you'd never
> buy.
>
>
Rest assured no magenta will be introduced :)
I've already lightened the cyan considerably. I don't think it's a
fundamentally toyish colour -- see e.g.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/ palette.
After my harsh criticism of the "couch you'd never buy" earlier, I've
completely turned face -- I think (hope) I've put it in a visual context in
which it's at home.
> * I'm not really sure about those cushions I hacked up. The idea
> > might be alright, but the curveyness and gradients totally conflict
> > with the CouchDB logo.
>
> They do. And add more toy appeal. I am not a database.
>
>
I've tried several approaches with the cushions, but none have worked well
enough. I'm going to try something different, and a bit more serious.
> What I haven't seen so far is an overview of all the features that are
> supported and also of those typical database features that are *not*
> supported.
>
Not sure what you mean. The text is partly placeholder and far from
finalized. You mean you'd like something on the main page that says "What
we Have but No-one Else Does"?
>
> --
> Michael Ludwig
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
Just to jump in here.
Let's not fall into the mistake of designing by committee. Here be dragons!
By all means, take on board concrit - but don't feel the need to pander to everyone's comments.
Send us a new demo once you're happy with the next increment!
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Michael Ludwig <mi...@gmx.de>.
James Fisher schrieb am 13.04.2010 um 19:57:52 (+0100):
> * I got rid of the green. To keep things dead simple I switched to
> the exact complement of the main red -- a cyan.
I strongly dislike cyan, just like magenta: these colors are aggressive
on the eye. The screechy appearance certainly reinforces the toy appeal
conveyed by the logo, which I agree is unfortunate, not so much for the
color but for the electrocuted figure flung onto that couch you'd never
buy.
> * I'm not really sure about those cushions I hacked up. The idea
> might be alright, but the curveyness and gradients totally conflict
> with the CouchDB logo.
They do. And add more toy appeal. I am not a database.
What I haven't seen so far is an overview of all the features that are
supported and also of those typical database features that are *not*
supported.
--
Michael Ludwig
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.
>
> An unrelated note: would there be any legal issues with the sponsorship
> logos at bottom? At http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html I'm
> told that sponsors have paid for specific-size logos at
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html . Thinking about it, is there
> any worth in having them there at all? They're sponsors of Apache rather
> than CouchDB specifically. Are there any specific sponsors of CouchDB, or
> do things not 'work like that'?
>
I'd say ditch them. I don't have an desire to open that can of worms.
And I'm not finding any other apache project sites that have them.
Well, they're not on Cassandra, Lucene, or Httpd's pages anyway.
Paul
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>
>
Thanks Rob. And agreed; a bit more forceful.
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one,
> can
> > be new one.
> >
>
Thanks, Paweł.
An unrelated note: would there be any legal issues with the sponsorship
logos at bottom? At http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html I'm
told that sponsors have paid for specific-size logos at
http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html . Thinking about it, is there
any worth in having them there at all? They're sponsors of Apache rather
than CouchDB specifically. Are there any specific sponsors of CouchDB, or
do things not 'work like that'?
> > --
> > Paweł Stawicki
> > http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
> > http://szczecin.jug.pl
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> >> >> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> I really like the simplicity.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
> word
> >> mark
> >> >> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back
> to
> >> the
> >> >> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
> are:
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
> >> >
> >> > * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> >> > * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
> >> > identity, it's wise to keep it.
> >>
> >> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already
> a
> >> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
> >>
> >> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd
> only
> >> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
> >>
> >> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
> >> who want to use it for serious things.
> >>
> >> > * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
> >> used
> >> > extensively (I doubt it).
> >> >
> >> > cons:
> >> >
> >> > * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
> >> hoover
> >> > it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
> >> > genuine copy.
> >> > * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
> there's
> >> > much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call
> that
> >> a
> >> > pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity
> fits
> >> > very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
> >> aluminium
> >> > couch.
> >> > * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
> >> > high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used
> by
> >> All
> >> > Nippon business class flights.
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Candela pros:
> >> >
> >> > * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> >> > * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
> other
> >> > CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> >> > * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
> potentially
> >> > highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
> >> >
> >> > cons:
> >> >
> >> > * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
> >> nice
> >> >> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
> brightness.
> >> > Doing a bit of both helps.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
> >> mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Hi,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> James Fisher schrieb:
> >> >>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
> attached
> >> >>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
> >> >> convert
> >> >>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Let me know if
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
> >> email?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Regards
> >> >>>> Julian
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >> >>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> >> >>>>> something
> >> >>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Homepage:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Wiki:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
> forward
> >> >>>>> for the site.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get
> in
> >> >>>>> touch with:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >> >>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> N
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@gmail.com>.
On 19 April 2010 15:51, Mirsal Ennaime <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
>> Cool. The more the merrier!
>
> Yeah, but I had a serious WTF moment while reading about it:
> Written in erlang, REST API, map/reduce, json... Come on...
As Noah said, the more the merrier :) The more people looking like
Couch and joining the nosql movement the better :)
In fairness though, Riak has been there for a while as well and is
doing some amazing things :)
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 19 Apr 2010, at 15:51, Mirsal Ennaime wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
>> Cool. The more the merrier!
>
> Yeah, but I had a serious WTF moment while reading about it:
> Written in erlang, REST API, map/reduce, json... Come on...
Huh?
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mirsal Ennaime <mi...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
> Cool. The more the merrier!
Yeah, but I had a serious WTF moment while reading about it:
Written in erlang, REST API, map/reduce, json... Come on...
--
Mirsal
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
Cool. The more the merrier!
On 19 Apr 2010, at 14:43, Adam Kocoloski wrote:
> On Apr 17, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
>
>>
>> On 17 Apr 2010, at 18:51, Zachary Zolton wrote:
>>
>>>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
>>>
>>> Two of my coworkers were turned off by that statement, noting that it
>>> felt adversarial. It's too easy for folks to misinterpret.
>>
>> Well, I would put it simply as:
>>
>> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
>
> FWIW, we're not the only ones claiming that anymore ...
>
> http://riak.basho.com/
>
> Adam
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Adam Kocoloski <ko...@apache.org>.
On Apr 17, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
>
> On 17 Apr 2010, at 18:51, Zachary Zolton wrote:
>
>>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
>>
>> Two of my coworkers were turned off by that statement, noting that it
>> felt adversarial. It's too easy for folks to misinterpret.
>
> Well, I would put it simply as:
>
> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
FWIW, we're not the only ones claiming that anymore ...
http://riak.basho.com/
Adam
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 17 Apr 2010, at 18:51, Zachary Zolton wrote:
>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
>
> Two of my coworkers were turned off by that statement, noting that it
> felt adversarial. It's too easy for folks to misinterpret.
Well, I would put it simply as:
CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Zachary Zolton <za...@gmail.com>.
> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
Two of my coworkers were turned off by that statement, noting that it
felt adversarial. It's too easy for folks to misinterpret.
>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
Nice. That really tells it like it is.
>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They both
>> look fine to me.
IMHO, when I first saw that text in Candela, I thought: looks like
Comic Sans... (^u^) So, I'm +1 on a "boring font", as well.
Cheers,
ZZ
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 20 Apr 2010, at 10:15, James Fisher wrote:
> DW, that's not what I was suggesting. The use of Myriad would be restricted
> to rasterized versions of the: (1) logo, (2) "time to relax" slogan, (3)
> "Goodbye, ..." intro text (that's now rasterized into the background PNG in
> the screenshot). I was hoping that someone with a good copy of Myriad
> could:
I'll help you with this.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Dave Cottlehuber <da...@muse.net.nz>.
> From: Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>
> Date: 30 April 2011 03:05
> Subject: Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>
>> Updated screenshot:
>> http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
>> Rasterized Myriad; Verdana webfont.
> I was just browsing a couple other nameless Apache projects and I was
> reminded how branding can have such a negative impact. Then I
> remembered that this design has been floating around for a bit but
> never seemed to go anywhere even though it seemed to be production
> ready.
>
> Can we just commit this and work on any remaining details that someone
> wants to put in effort to fix?
Bump. +1 for Paul's proposal. It's been stewing for a year now...
Do we need a vote or something for moving ahead with this?
Original thread on user@
http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/oW6Dz4U0N1GHbDLWKXE8
A+
Dave
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.
> Updated screenshot:
> http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
> Rasterized Myriad; Verdana webfont.
I was just browsing a couple other nameless Apache projects and I was
reminded how branding can have such a negative impact. Then I
remembered that this design has been floating around for a bit but
never seemed to go anywhere even though it seemed to be production
ready.
Can we just commit this and work on any remaining details that someone
wants to put in effort to fix?
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Fantastic list. Thank you.
On 13 Jul 2010, at 08:08, Dave Cottlehuber wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 08:52, afters <af...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think your main goal here is to figure out what messages the website is
>>> intended to send, and to what audiences. As for the design: form follows
>>> function.
>
> agree. some thoughts to share on that note;
>
> as a newcomer to couchdb what attracted me was:
> - the logo - is there another DB out there with such a cool logo?
> - the videos :-)
> - replication is so easy
> - crash-safe design & simple model for backup/recovery
> - straightforward conceptual model to work with - REST, JSON,
> - futon interface makes it so quick to get started
>
> these made it really easy to work with - it's like having the data
> directly in your hands
> - simplicity of model - e.g. middleware not necessary
> - curl / http access
> - schema-free
> - native JSON storage
> - couchapp for loading both data & ddocs
>
> what complicated it:
> - differences in the book vs trunk - examples and templates in
> particular can really slow you down
> - changeover to mustache.js - there are probably a few people like me
> lurking who simply are unable to figure out how to make this work in
> server or client side mode
> - evently if you're not already a javascript person - give me 6 months
> & I'll be OK but it's a steep learning curve from ground zero
> - map/reduce - this takes a bit of getting used to, but when you
> understand it the logic is clear - how did we ever manage this on
> traditional RDBMS..
>
> cheers
> Dave
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Dave Cottlehuber <da...@muse.net.nz>.
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 08:52, afters <af...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think your main goal here is to figure out what messages the website is
>> intended to send, and to what audiences. As for the design: form follows
>> function.
agree. some thoughts to share on that note;
as a newcomer to couchdb what attracted me was:
- the logo - is there another DB out there with such a cool logo?
- the videos :-)
- replication is so easy
- crash-safe design & simple model for backup/recovery
- straightforward conceptual model to work with - REST, JSON,
- futon interface makes it so quick to get started
these made it really easy to work with - it's like having the data
directly in your hands
- simplicity of model - e.g. middleware not necessary
- curl / http access
- schema-free
- native JSON storage
- couchapp for loading both data & ddocs
what complicated it:
- differences in the book vs trunk - examples and templates in
particular can really slow you down
- changeover to mustache.js - there are probably a few people like me
lurking who simply are unable to figure out how to make this work in
server or client side mode
- evently if you're not already a javascript person - give me 6 months
& I'll be OK but it's a steep learning curve from ground zero
- map/reduce - this takes a bit of getting used to, but when you
understand it the logic is clear - how did we ever manage this on
traditional RDBMS..
cheers
Dave
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 06:52, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> Very much +1 on all Noah said.
Ditto
> To keep things moving, I'd be happy to volunteer to play benevolent dictator for the site and work with proper designer and community input.
+1!
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 08:52, afters <af...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think your main goal here is to figure out what messages the website is
> intended to send, and to what audiences. As for the design: form follows
> function.
100% agree. That's why this discussion is worth having, and it's not
primarily about design. It's now primarily about what information we
want to convey to what people. You could say this is information
design, but in this case it's OK for at least a discussion to inform
Jan for when he makes a call. The visual design is the least important
aspect of all this.
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 13:57, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> CouchDB doesn't just serve JSON, it serves *any* content-type you set in an
> attachment and with list and show it can even generate HTML and XML
> resources.
>
> This is why I just wanted to have "HTTP" without a specific content-type.
Great point!
However, JSON is an important part of Couch's story. I agree that we
shouldn't lose the fact that Couch can store and serve up any format
of data, but we also need to make clear all of the advantages of using
JSON for structured data.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
CouchDB doesn't just serve JSON, it serves *any* content-type you set in an
attachment and with list and show it can even generate HTML and XML
resources.
This is why I just wanted to have "HTTP" without a specific content-type.
-Mikeal
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:36 AM, Jan-Piet Mens <jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri Jul 09 2010 at 18:05:59 CEST, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe a diagram with a Browser, JSON, HTTP REST -> CouchDB?
> >
> > I'd like that :)
>
> I'm evidently not a graphics artist, but how about something like this?
> A Web browser, a bit of JSON, and CouchDB.
> http://tweetphoto.com/31820093
>
> -JP
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jan-Piet Mens <jp...@gmail.com>.
On Fri Jul 09 2010 at 18:05:59 CEST, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
> >
> > Maybe a diagram with a Browser, JSON, HTTP REST -> CouchDB?
>
> I'd like that :)
I'm evidently not a graphics artist, but how about something like this?
A Web browser, a bit of JSON, and CouchDB.
http://tweetphoto.com/31820093
-JP
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 9, 2010, at 5:57 AM, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
>
> On 9 Jul 2010, at 13:18, Manokaran K wrote:
>
>> Am I the only one experiencing deja vu now? :-)
>>
>> regds,
>> mano
>
>
> dja-what now? :D
>
> http://couchdb.apache.org/
>
> I just sent this message to dev@:
>
way to go!
although I miss the little pillows from the blue design :)
>> Oooooold thread.
>>
>> I finally managed to get to commit it. I'm sure there are rough edges,
>> please let me know :)
>>
>> Maddiin, thanks again for you work! :)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jan
>> --
>>
>> On 15 Nov 2009, at 16:50, Noah Slater wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Nov 2009, at 15:30, maddiin wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've attached them in a previous mail, but you'll find them attached again with this mail as I already made a change to the wiki (added new var to wikiconfig_local.py: page_front_page = u'Apache CouchDB Project Wiki' / else the main heading of the wiki frontpage would be FrontPage).
>>>
>>> Aha! Sorry, and thanks.
>>>
>>> I'm going to be doing the 0.10.1 release soon, so I might use that as an excuse to look at this too.
>
> Let me know if you find any glitches, thanks!
>
> Cheers
> Jan
> --
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.
On 9 Jul 2010, at 13:18, Manokaran K wrote:
> Am I the only one experiencing deja vu now? :-)
>
> regds,
> mano
dja-what now? :D
http://couchdb.apache.org/
I just sent this message to dev@:
> Oooooold thread.
>
> I finally managed to get to commit it. I'm sure there are rough edges,
> please let me know :)
>
> Maddiin, thanks again for you work! :)
>
> Cheers
> Jan
> --
>
> On 15 Nov 2009, at 16:50, Noah Slater wrote:
>
>>
>> On 15 Nov 2009, at 15:30, maddiin wrote:
>>
>>> I've attached them in a previous mail, but you'll find them attached again with this mail as I already made a change to the wiki (added new var to wikiconfig_local.py: page_front_page = u'Apache CouchDB Project Wiki' / else the main heading of the wiki frontpage would be FrontPage).
>>
>> Aha! Sorry, and thanks.
>>
>> I'm going to be doing the 0.10.1 release soon, so I might use that as an excuse to look at this too.
Let me know if you find any glitches, thanks!
Cheers
Jan
--
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Avi Flax wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> There's an awful lot going on there. I understand that it is making a point, but I think that amount of visual clutter on the front page would be terribly distracting.
>
> I totally hear you. Mikeal's original idea was simply to have a
> browser and Couch. But I think it's important to illustrate that any
> application, programming language, etc, can interface with Couch, it's
> a big part of its appeal. I first tried to find a simpler way to
> represent the concept of an application "tier"… I searched for photos
> and illustrations of gears and engines. But I had a hard time finding
> freely usable images which didn't require attribution, so I gave up
> and went with the word cloud idea. If we wouldn't mind adding an
> attribution line to the bottom of the page, we could try using an
> illustration.
>
> Would it be worth trying keeping the names of those various
> technologies, but organizing them in a neater, simpler, cleaner way?
> AKA not a word cloud?
This isn't usable as is, but it illustrates the point pretty well.
http://skitch.com/jchris/b453y/couchdb-oscon.pdf-page-42-of-83
>
> Anyway, I'd be happy to try any suggestions.
>
> Or, if the group doesn't think this is worth pursuing, we can just drop it.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
Take 2.
On 11 July 2010 23:30, David Coallier <da...@php.net> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
Here are some scribbles I've done on Friday and some things (From
crazy to boring) that I've thought of and I'm starting to lean towards
the utterly simple graph.
Anyways:
1) Hand scribble in notebook:
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-2.jpg
2) Same as above with legend:
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-3-legend.jpg
Those two diagrams present some flaws. They are horizontal diagrams
where they should be vertical in order to fit on the couch page
(http://couchdb.apache.org)
Here are some much simpler images/ideas and a preview of how they'd
look if used on the site.
3) Diagram: http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-4-gfl.png
Look on CouchDB:
http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm4hh/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
4) Even simpler diagram with less arrows:
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-5-gfl.png
and how it'd look on CouchDB's website:
http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm466/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
I'm not really thrilled by any of them even though I like the third one
(3)
I hope this can give some people some better ideas :)
--
David Coallier
RE: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Nils Breunese <N....@vpro.nl>.
What is and what isn't the primary function of CouchDB? The primary function of any database is storing and retrieving data, but that sounds not too interesting to emphasize on the website. Aren't design documents a primary function of CouchDB? When does a design document stop being just a design document and starts being a CouchApp? When it gets its own HTML interface?
We use couchapp (the CLI tool) for all CouchDB development (also handy to keep the code in version control), though we haven't done any stand-alone web applications on CouchDB yet, only API-style stuff.
Nils.
________________________________________
Van: david.coallier@gmail.com [david.coallier@gmail.com] namens David Coallier [davidc@php.net]
Verzonden: maandag 12 juli 2010 12:27
Aan: user@couchdb.apache.org
Onderwerp: Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
> Give a more clear message about CouchApps.
> Most people I have talked to, had a hard time trying to understand what
> CouchApps are (and why do CouchApps) and immediately ask for examples.
>
> Somehow, by just mentioning only HTTP REST interface and JSON people don't
> realize the possibilty of applications hosted in CouchDB without a middle
> tier (web or app server).
> We need, imho, to give yet more emphasis on CouchApps.
>
I can't agree with this. Whilst CouchApps are really cool and one of
the widely unknown feature of what you can do with CouchDB, I don't
believe it is appropriate to display and put them in emphasis as the
first face of the website. It should show what is couchdb and what it
does as a primary function.
Perhaps a "little known features" section on the website that could be
either rotating or a carousel-like could be an interesting idea to
display the likes of CouchApps, Mustache and Couch, etc. (IE:
http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dcnih/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project)
--
David Coallier
De informatie vervat in deze e-mail en meegezonden bijlagen is uitsluitend bedoeld voor gebruik door de geadresseerde en kan vertrouwelijke informatie bevatten. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding en/of verstrekking van deze informatie aan derden is voorbehouden aan geadresseerde. De VPRO staat niet in voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mail, noch voor tijdige ontvangst daarvan.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Klaus Trainer <kl...@web.de>.
+1 on Jan being our new BD for website design.
Jan Lehnardt wrote:
> On 12 Jul 2010, at 12:37, Noah Slater wrote:
>
>> It is starting to concern me that we're trying to design the site by committee. And design by committee is a terrible way to achieve anything with cohesion. I'm not sure what to do though.
>>
>> The ideal solution would be for us to appoint a designer/webmaster who's sole responsibility was the design and maintenance of the site. This person could then take guidance from the community on what should be included, and what we'd like on the site - but would be free to call the shots, and ultimately decide how things were going to look.
>>
>> Does anyone have any ideas how we can move towards this, and away from the current situation? Having a bunch of geeks (and we're hardly known for our design prowess in the first place, right?) argue about what should and should not be included will lead us head first into the kind of open source website we all know and hate.
>
> Very much +1 on all Noah said.
>
> To keep things moving, I'd be happy to volunteer to play benevolent dictator for the site and work with proper designer and community input.
>
> Cheers
> Jan
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.
On 12 Jul 2010, at 12:37, Noah Slater wrote:
> It is starting to concern me that we're trying to design the site by committee. And design by committee is a terrible way to achieve anything with cohesion. I'm not sure what to do though.
>
> The ideal solution would be for us to appoint a designer/webmaster who's sole responsibility was the design and maintenance of the site. This person could then take guidance from the community on what should be included, and what we'd like on the site - but would be free to call the shots, and ultimately decide how things were going to look.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas how we can move towards this, and away from the current situation? Having a bunch of geeks (and we're hardly known for our design prowess in the first place, right?) argue about what should and should not be included will lead us head first into the kind of open source website we all know and hate.
Very much +1 on all Noah said.
To keep things moving, I'd be happy to volunteer to play benevolent dictator for the site and work with proper designer and community input.
Cheers
Jan
--
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.
On 12 Jul 2010, at 12:37, Noah Slater wrote:
> It is starting to concern me that we're trying to design the site by committee. And design by committee is a terrible way to achieve anything with cohesion. I'm not sure what to do though.
>
> The ideal solution would be for us to appoint a designer/webmaster who's sole responsibility was the design and maintenance of the site. This person could then take guidance from the community on what should be included, and what we'd like on the site - but would be free to call the shots, and ultimately decide how things were going to look.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas how we can move towards this, and away from the current situation? Having a bunch of geeks (and we're hardly known for our design prowess in the first place, right?) argue about what should and should not be included will lead us head first into the kind of open source website we all know and hate.
Very much +1 on all Noah said.
To keep things moving, I'd be happy to volunteer to play benevolent dictator for the site and work with proper designer and community input.
Cheers
Jan
--
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.
On 12 Jul 2010, at 14:13, David Coallier wrote:
> +1 on Jan's idea.
>
> I hereby retire.
Noplease, keep sending feedback :)
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
+1 on Jan's idea.
I hereby retire.
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> It is starting to concern me that we're trying to design the site by committee. And design by committee is a terrible way to achieve anything with cohesion. I'm not sure what to do though.
>
> The ideal solution would be for us to appoint a designer/webmaster who's sole responsibility was the design and maintenance of the site. This person could then take guidance from the community on what should be included, and what we'd like on the site - but would be free to call the shots, and ultimately decide how things were going to look.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas how we can move towards this, and away from the current situation? Having a bunch of geeks (and we're hardly known for our design prowess in the first place, right?) argue about what should and should not be included will lead us head first into the kind of open source website we all know and hate.
That would be better indeed. But appoint a designer/wemaster or send a
public call for a design ?
- benoit
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by afters <af...@gmail.com>.
I think your main goal here is to figure out what messages the website is
intended to send, and to what audiences. As for the design: form follows
function.
The homepage, for example, describes what couchdb is, but I don't think it
does well to address what visitors would really like to know. Would
MapReduce be of any consideration for someone who's choosing a DB for their
next project? Would javascript and erlang solve major issues for someone
who's considering migrating from another DB? Is there anything to show that
couchdb can be used as a web-server?
Whatever the 'selling points' are, they should be made obvious. The
bullet-points method used in the main page of the wiki is a good way to do
that, in my opinion. And, of course, diagrams.
a.
On 12 July 2010 13:37, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> It is starting to concern me that we're trying to design the site by
> committee. And design by committee is a terrible way to achieve anything
> with cohesion. I'm not sure what to do though.
>
> The ideal solution would be for us to appoint a designer/webmaster who's
> sole responsibility was the design and maintenance of the site. This person
> could then take guidance from the community on what should be included, and
> what we'd like on the site - but would be free to call the shots, and
> ultimately decide how things were going to look.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas how we can move towards this, and away from the
> current situation? Having a bunch of geeks (and we're hardly known for our
> design prowess in the first place, right?) argue about what should and
> should not be included will lead us head first into the kind of open source
> website we all know and hate.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
It is starting to concern me that we're trying to design the site by committee. And design by committee is a terrible way to achieve anything with cohesion. I'm not sure what to do though.
The ideal solution would be for us to appoint a designer/webmaster who's sole responsibility was the design and maintenance of the site. This person could then take guidance from the community on what should be included, and what we'd like on the site - but would be free to call the shots, and ultimately decide how things were going to look.
Does anyone have any ideas how we can move towards this, and away from the current situation? Having a bunch of geeks (and we're hardly known for our design prowess in the first place, right?) argue about what should and should not be included will lead us head first into the kind of open source website we all know and hate.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
> Give a more clear message about CouchApps.
> Most people I have talked to, had a hard time trying to understand what
> CouchApps are (and why do CouchApps) and immediately ask for examples.
>
> Somehow, by just mentioning only HTTP REST interface and JSON people don't
> realize the possibilty of applications hosted in CouchDB without a middle
> tier (web or app server).
> We need, imho, to give yet more emphasis on CouchApps.
>
I can't agree with this. Whilst CouchApps are really cool and one of
the widely unknown feature of what you can do with CouchDB, I don't
believe it is appropriate to display and put them in emphasis as the
first face of the website. It should show what is couchdb and what it
does as a primary function.
Perhaps a "little known features" section on the website that could be
either rotating or a carousel-like could be an interesting idea to
display the likes of CouchApps, Mustache and Couch, etc. (IE:
http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dcnih/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project)
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Filipe David Manana <fd...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:41 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:30 PM, David Coallier wrote:
>
> > Hey everyone,
> >
> > On 11 July 2010 22:19, Filipe David Manana <fd...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Would it be worth trying keeping the names of those various
> >>> technologies, but organizing them in a neater, simpler, cleaner way?
> >>> AKA not a word cloud?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thinking better, having only names of programming languages (Perl, Ruby,
> >> etc) and platforms (.NET, Java, etc) might give the wrong idea that
> Apache
> >> CouchDB provides libraries for all those languages and platforms. All
> the
> >> existing libraries are third party.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Here are some scribbles I've done on Friday and some things (From
> > crazy to boring) that I've thought of and I'm starting to learn
> > towards the utterly simple graph.
> >
>
> I think we need to focus on the things CouchDB can do that others can't.
>
> That means:
>
>
> p2p Replication / sync
>
> Running on Mobile Devices
>
> Queries against heterogenous data
>
> (something I'm missing?)
>
Give a more clear message about CouchApps.
Most people I have talked to, had a hard time trying to understand what
CouchApps are (and why do CouchApps) and immediately ask for examples.
Somehow, by just mentioning only HTTP REST interface and JSON people don't
realize the possibilty of applications hosted in CouchDB without a middle
tier (web or app server).
We need, imho, to give yet more emphasis on CouchApps.
>
> > Anyways:
> >
> > 1) Hand scribble in notebook:
> >
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-2.jpg
> >
> > 2) Same as above with legend:
> >
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-3-legend.jpg
> >
> > Those two diagrams present some flaws. They are horizontal diagrams
> > where they should be horizontal to fit on the couch page.
> >
> > Here are some much simpler images and how they'd look if on the site.
> >
> > 3) Diagram:
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-4-gfl.png
> > Look on CouchDB:
> > http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm4hh/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
> >
> > 4) Even simpler diagram with less arrows:
> >
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-5-gfl.png
> > and how it'd look on CouchDB's website:
> > http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm466/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
> >
> > I'm not very thrilled by any of them even though I like the third one
> > (3) but I hope this can give some people some better ideas :)
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Coallier
>
>
--
Filipe David Manana,
fdmanana@apache.org
"Reasonable men adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable men adapt the world to themselves.
That's why all progress depends on unreasonable men."
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Jul 12, 2010, at 0:14, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Liking it -- I think it might be time to find an artist.
>
> I'd love to see these drawn in a way that shows instead of tells. Eg: pictures of phones and servers and web-browsers, etc.
Absolutely. This is just a mockup. I do think the pictures will need
labels though, it's hard to convey a concept like "server" as a
picture without losing some people.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 8:52 PM, Avi Flax wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 23:47, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
>
>> Something like this:
>
> Sorry, bad URL there.
>
> Correct URL:
>
> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20D,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
Liking it -- I think it might be time to find an artist.
I'd love to see these drawn in a way that shows instead of tells. Eg: pictures of phones and servers and web-browsers, etc.
Chris
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 23:47, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
>
>> Something like this:
>
> Sorry, bad URL there.
>
> Correct URL:
>
> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20D,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
>
-1
We don't speak about data in these diagrams and I think we should.
Also they aren't very readable from a design point of view. I can't
read the http and imo it should be a clear communication layer.
- benoit
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 23:47, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> Something like this:
Sorry, bad URL there.
Correct URL:
http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20D,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
Oh man, if we just used some raphael.js to draw the lines we could write a
little javascript that randomly fades them in and out :)
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:27 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
>
> > I think the first image is the best but should also have a <---------->
> line
> > as well.
> >
>
> as far as the 3 images, I think it could work to do a cross-fade slideshow
> between them.
>
> I don't think we need to rush this, I'm happy to sleep on the idea and see
> if anyone comes up with anything.
>
> I agree it'd be cool to do some deep information pages on the 3 different
> deployment strategies:
>
> p2p sync
>
> simple application dev
>
> HA replication / scaling
>
> > But I don't think it should be the front page image, we should really
> have a
> > page specifically about replication.
> >
> > That page could also link to the other related projects that tell the
> great
> > replication story (DesktopCouch, Android CouchDB, IDBCouch) all of which
> > aren't actually part of the Apache CouchDB code base at this time.
> >
> > -Mikeal
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 11, 2010, at 23:56, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> This link isn't working for me.
> >>
> >> Yeah, sorry, I messed it up. Did you get my follow-up? Just need to
> >> add "images" as the first path segment.
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
> I think the first image is the best but should also have a <----------> line
> as well.
>
as far as the 3 images, I think it could work to do a cross-fade slideshow between them.
I don't think we need to rush this, I'm happy to sleep on the idea and see if anyone comes up with anything.
I agree it'd be cool to do some deep information pages on the 3 different deployment strategies:
p2p sync
simple application dev
HA replication / scaling
> But I don't think it should be the front page image, we should really have a
> page specifically about replication.
>
> That page could also link to the other related projects that tell the great
> replication story (DesktopCouch, Android CouchDB, IDBCouch) all of which
> aren't actually part of the Apache CouchDB code base at this time.
>
> -Mikeal
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 23:56, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This link isn't working for me.
>>
>> Yeah, sorry, I messed it up. Did you get my follow-up? Just need to
>> add "images" as the first path segment.
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
I think the first image is the best but should also have a <----------> line
as well.
But I don't think it should be the front page image, we should really have a
page specifically about replication.
That page could also link to the other related projects that tell the great
replication story (DesktopCouch, Android CouchDB, IDBCouch) all of which
aren't actually part of the Apache CouchDB code base at this time.
-Mikeal
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 23:56, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This link isn't working for me.
>
> Yeah, sorry, I messed it up. Did you get my follow-up? Just need to
> add "images" as the first path segment.
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 23:56, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This link isn't working for me.
Yeah, sorry, I messed it up. Did you get my follow-up? Just need to
add "images" as the first path segment.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
This link isn't working for me.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 20:26, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > We can't get every part of the CouchDB story in to a graphic on the front
> > page without it just being super confusing.
>
> I agree, but I also appreciate where Chris is coming from here. He's
> always been motivated by the grand vision for CouchDB, and how it
> enables new usage patterns and not just new approaches to app
> development. And I'm a sucker for that kind of a perspective.
>
> What about 3–4 different ultra-simple, ultra-streamlined diagrams,
> each of which illustrating something unique about CouchDB?
>
> Something like this:
>
>
> http://aviflax.com/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20D,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 20:26, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We can't get every part of the CouchDB story in to a graphic on the front
> page without it just being super confusing.
I agree, but I also appreciate where Chris is coming from here. He's
always been motivated by the grand vision for CouchDB, and how it
enables new usage patterns and not just new approaches to app
development. And I'm a sucker for that kind of a perspective.
What about 3–4 different ultra-simple, ultra-streamlined diagrams,
each of which illustrating something unique about CouchDB?
Something like this:
http://aviflax.com/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20D,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
We can't get every part of the CouchDB story in to a graphic on the front
page without it just being super confusing.
I think the best that we can hope for is something that makes it obvious
that CouchDB isn't our typical database and is going to talk directly to
your browser or language or device.
Maybe one of the top level links should just be "replication" and have a
details description along with a good graphic because. I think replication
is more important than a "road map" link to a JIRA thing we don't actually
use to track our road map :)
Also, add "Mobile Phone" fairly large to the tag cloud for this front page
graphic.
-Mikeal
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
>
> > I actually think this is the best one:
> >
> >
> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20B,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
> >
>
> All this really says is that CouchDB is an "integration database" with an
> HTTP API.
>
> I'd love to get an illustration that makes it clear about replication /
> sync across desktop and mobile.
>
> Chris
>
> > I would replace "JSON via HTTP" with just "HTTP" (I don't think the mile
> > high overview has to call out REST or JSON specifically).
> >
> > Also, that giant tag cloud could get smaller. If it were the size of the
> > browsers that would be good.
> >
> > Also, I'm not an IE fan but it should probably be in the browser buttons
> or
> > else someone might think we require a good browser :)
> >
> > -Mikeal
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:09 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:59 PM, David Coallier wrote:
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> p2p Replication / sync
> >>>>
> >>>> Running on Mobile Devices
> >>>>
> >>>> Queries against heterogenous data
> >>>>
> >>>> (something I'm missing?)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I think that's right. If we can find a way to manage to display the
> >>> main points of interest as you mentioned it might be better for users.
> >>>
> >>> What about 2 diagrams maybe? One on the right, and one a bit lower on
> the
> >> left?
> >>>
> >>> Anyways, here's something funny :P
> >>>
> >>
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-in-space.jpg
> >>>
> >>
> >> finally, someone understands my motivations for throwing my lot in with
> >> CouchDB. we need some kind of synchronization protocol or else the Mars
> >> colonies won't be able to share their cat videos with us!
> >>
> >>> This is me retiring from being a designer (I just can't be one -- no
> >>> matter how many scribbles I make :P)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> David Coallier
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
> I actually think this is the best one:
>
> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20B,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
>
All this really says is that CouchDB is an "integration database" with an HTTP API.
I'd love to get an illustration that makes it clear about replication / sync across desktop and mobile.
Chris
> I would replace "JSON via HTTP" with just "HTTP" (I don't think the mile
> high overview has to call out REST or JSON specifically).
>
> Also, that giant tag cloud could get smaller. If it were the size of the
> browsers that would be good.
>
> Also, I'm not an IE fan but it should probably be in the browser buttons or
> else someone might think we require a good browser :)
>
> -Mikeal
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:09 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:59 PM, David Coallier wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> p2p Replication / sync
>>>>
>>>> Running on Mobile Devices
>>>>
>>>> Queries against heterogenous data
>>>>
>>>> (something I'm missing?)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think that's right. If we can find a way to manage to display the
>>> main points of interest as you mentioned it might be better for users.
>>>
>>> What about 2 diagrams maybe? One on the right, and one a bit lower on the
>> left?
>>>
>>> Anyways, here's something funny :P
>>>
>> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-in-space.jpg
>>>
>>
>> finally, someone understands my motivations for throwing my lot in with
>> CouchDB. we need some kind of synchronization protocol or else the Mars
>> colonies won't be able to share their cat videos with us!
>>
>>> This is me retiring from being a designer (I just can't be one -- no
>>> matter how many scribbles I make :P)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Coallier
>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
I actually think this is the best one:
http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20B,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
I would replace "JSON via HTTP" with just "HTTP" (I don't think the mile
high overview has to call out REST or JSON specifically).
Also, that giant tag cloud could get smaller. If it were the size of the
browsers that would be good.
Also, I'm not an IE fan but it should probably be in the browser buttons or
else someone might think we require a good browser :)
-Mikeal
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:09 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:59 PM, David Coallier wrote:
>
> >>
> >> p2p Replication / sync
> >>
> >> Running on Mobile Devices
> >>
> >> Queries against heterogenous data
> >>
> >> (something I'm missing?)
> >>
> >
> > I think that's right. If we can find a way to manage to display the
> > main points of interest as you mentioned it might be better for users.
> >
> > What about 2 diagrams maybe? One on the right, and one a bit lower on the
> left?
> >
> > Anyways, here's something funny :P
> >
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-in-space.jpg
> >
>
> finally, someone understands my motivations for throwing my lot in with
> CouchDB. we need some kind of synchronization protocol or else the Mars
> colonies won't be able to share their cat videos with us!
>
> > This is me retiring from being a designer (I just can't be one -- no
> > matter how many scribbles I make :P)
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Coallier
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:59 PM, David Coallier wrote:
>>
>> p2p Replication / sync
>>
>> Running on Mobile Devices
>>
>> Queries against heterogenous data
>>
>> (something I'm missing?)
>>
>
> I think that's right. If we can find a way to manage to display the
> main points of interest as you mentioned it might be better for users.
>
> What about 2 diagrams maybe? One on the right, and one a bit lower on the left?
>
> Anyways, here's something funny :P
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-in-space.jpg
>
finally, someone understands my motivations for throwing my lot in with CouchDB. we need some kind of synchronization protocol or else the Mars colonies won't be able to share their cat videos with us!
> This is me retiring from being a designer (I just can't be one -- no
> matter how many scribbles I make :P)
>
>
> --
> David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
>
> p2p Replication / sync
>
> Running on Mobile Devices
>
> Queries against heterogenous data
>
> (something I'm missing?)
>
I think that's right. If we can find a way to manage to display the
main points of interest as you mentioned it might be better for users.
What about 2 diagrams maybe? One on the right, and one a bit lower on the left?
Anyways, here's something funny :P
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-in-space.jpg
This is me retiring from being a designer (I just can't be one -- no
matter how many scribbles I make :P)
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:30 PM, David Coallier wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> On 11 July 2010 22:19, Filipe David Manana <fd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Would it be worth trying keeping the names of those various
>>> technologies, but organizing them in a neater, simpler, cleaner way?
>>> AKA not a word cloud?
>>>
>>
>> Thinking better, having only names of programming languages (Perl, Ruby,
>> etc) and platforms (.NET, Java, etc) might give the wrong idea that Apache
>> CouchDB provides libraries for all those languages and platforms. All the
>> existing libraries are third party.
>>
>>
>
> Here are some scribbles I've done on Friday and some things (From
> crazy to boring) that I've thought of and I'm starting to learn
> towards the utterly simple graph.
>
I think we need to focus on the things CouchDB can do that others can't.
That means:
p2p Replication / sync
Running on Mobile Devices
Queries against heterogenous data
(something I'm missing?)
> Anyways:
>
> 1) Hand scribble in notebook:
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-2.jpg
>
> 2) Same as above with legend:
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-3-legend.jpg
>
> Those two diagrams present some flaws. They are horizontal diagrams
> where they should be horizontal to fit on the couch page.
>
> Here are some much simpler images and how they'd look if on the site.
>
> 3) Diagram: http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-4-gfl.png
> Look on CouchDB:
> http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm4hh/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
>
> 4) Even simpler diagram with less arrows:
> http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-5-gfl.png
> and how it'd look on CouchDB's website:
> http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm466/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
>
> I'm not very thrilled by any of them even though I like the third one
> (3) but I hope this can give some people some better ideas :)
>
>
> --
> David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
Hey everyone,
On 11 July 2010 22:19, Filipe David Manana <fd...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Would it be worth trying keeping the names of those various
>> technologies, but organizing them in a neater, simpler, cleaner way?
>> AKA not a word cloud?
>>
>
> Thinking better, having only names of programming languages (Perl, Ruby,
> etc) and platforms (.NET, Java, etc) might give the wrong idea that Apache
> CouchDB provides libraries for all those languages and platforms. All the
> existing libraries are third party.
>
>
Here are some scribbles I've done on Friday and some things (From
crazy to boring) that I've thought of and I'm starting to learn
towards the utterly simple graph.
Anyways:
1) Hand scribble in notebook:
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-2.jpg
2) Same as above with legend:
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-3-legend.jpg
Those two diagrams present some flaws. They are horizontal diagrams
where they should be horizontal to fit on the couch page.
Here are some much simpler images and how they'd look if on the site.
3) Diagram: http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-4-gfl.png
Look on CouchDB:
http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm4hh/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
4) Even simpler diagram with less arrows:
http://david.couchone.com/images/65a917c2a53e7f5f70ad500015001277/couch-5-gfl.png
and how it'd look on CouchDB's website:
http://skitch.com/davidcoallier/dm466/apache-couchdb-the-couchdb-project
I'm not very thrilled by any of them even though I like the third one
(3) but I hope this can give some people some better ideas :)
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Filipe David Manana <fd...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Would it be worth trying keeping the names of those various
> technologies, but organizing them in a neater, simpler, cleaner way?
> AKA not a word cloud?
>
Thinking better, having only names of programming languages (Perl, Ruby,
etc) and platforms (.NET, Java, etc) might give the wrong idea that Apache
CouchDB provides libraries for all those languages and platforms. All the
existing libraries are third party.
>
> Anyway, I'd be happy to try any suggestions.
>
> Or, if the group doesn't think this is worth pursuing, we can just drop it.
>
--
Filipe David Manana,
fdmanana@apache.org
"Reasonable men adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable men adapt the world to themselves.
That's why all progress depends on unreasonable men."
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> There's an awful lot going on there. I understand that it is making a point, but I think that amount of visual clutter on the front page would be terribly distracting.
I totally hear you. Mikeal's original idea was simply to have a
browser and Couch. But I think it's important to illustrate that any
application, programming language, etc, can interface with Couch, it's
a big part of its appeal. I first tried to find a simpler way to
represent the concept of an application "tier"… I searched for photos
and illustrations of gears and engines. But I had a hard time finding
freely usable images which didn't require attribution, so I gave up
and went with the word cloud idea. If we wouldn't mind adding an
attribution line to the bottom of the page, we could try using an
illustration.
Would it be worth trying keeping the names of those various
technologies, but organizing them in a neater, simpler, cleaner way?
AKA not a word cloud?
Anyway, I'd be happy to try any suggestions.
Or, if the group doesn't think this is worth pursuing, we can just drop it.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
On 11 Jul 2010, at 20:13, Filipe David Manana wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm no artist myself, but I do a fair bit of diagramming, and when I
>> read your description, this popped into my head:
>>
>> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20A,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
Holy crap. BRAIN ASPLODE.
There's an awful lot going on there. I understand that it is making a point, but I think that amount of visual clutter on the front page would be terribly distracting.
> I like most the second, simpler, version. However I think this 2nd version
> must mention REST somewhere. Perhaps instead of "JSON via HTTP", you could
> replace with "RESTful HTTP + JSON" or something similar.
If we're going to have so much clutter, we may as well at least outline SOMETHING to do with the details of CouchDB. Heh, heh.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Filipe David Manana <fd...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com> wrote:
> I'm no artist myself, but I do a fair bit of diagramming, and when I
> read your description, this popped into my head:
>
>
> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20A,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
>
> and a simpler version:
>
>
> http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20B,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
>
> Hi Avi,
I like most the second, simpler, version. However I think this 2nd version
must mention REST somewhere. Perhaps instead of "JSON via HTTP", you could
replace with "RESTful HTTP + JSON" or something similar.
I'm not much of a designer myself, let's wait for other opinions.
Good work :)
--
Filipe David Manana,
fdmanana@apache.org
"Reasonable men adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable men adapt the world to themselves.
That's why all progress depends on unreasonable men."
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Avi Flax <av...@arc90.com>.
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:14, Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> /me sucks at graphics :(
I'm no artist myself, but I do a fair bit of diagramming, and when I
read your description, this popped into my head:
http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20A,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
and a simpler version:
http://aviflax.com/images/CouchDB%20Website%20Diagram%20Study%20B,%2011%20July%202010,%20Avi%20Flax.png
I'm not sure I could take it much farther myself, but who knows, maybe
with everyone's help we could make it presentable together — if people
like the concept and basic layout…
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> On 9 Jul 2010, at 17:05, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
>
> > On 9 Jul 2010, at 18:03, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe a diagram with a Browser, JSON, HTTP REST -> CouchDB?
> >
> > I'd like that :)
>
> Yeah. Fancy knocking one up Mikeal? :)
>
Only if you want to see the first computer generated diagram that looks
*way* worse than a hand written on.
/me sucks at graphics :(
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
On 9 Jul 2010, at 17:05, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2010, at 18:03, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
>
>> Maybe a diagram with a Browser, JSON, HTTP REST -> CouchDB?
>
> I'd like that :)
Yeah. Fancy knocking one up Mikeal? :)
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.
On 9 Jul 2010, at 18:03, Mikeal Rogers wrote:
> Can we please get rid of the hand drawn diagram?
>
> I don't think it helps anyones understanding of the architecture and I find
> it pretty distracting.
>
> Also, I don't think the *front* page should have an architecture diagram
> like this, it's a little too low level for the average person who is coming
> along and looking for a build and maybe some docs.
>
> Ideally, jQuery developers who come along and start writing couchapps don't
> need to know about erlang/spidermonkey/mod-couch/icu they just care about
> the API.
>
> Maybe a diagram with a Browser, JSON, HTTP REST -> CouchDB?
I'd like that :)
Cheers
Jan
--
>
> -Mikeal
>
> On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 9 Jul 2010, at 12:38, David Coallier wrote:
>>
>>> Noah, what's the expected release date of 1.0.0 ?
>>
>> Real Soon Now.
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Mikeal Rogers <mi...@gmail.com>.
Can we please get rid of the hand drawn diagram?
I don't think it helps anyones understanding of the architecture and I find
it pretty distracting.
Also, I don't think the *front* page should have an architecture diagram
like this, it's a little too low level for the average person who is coming
along and looking for a build and maybe some docs.
Ideally, jQuery developers who come along and start writing couchapps don't
need to know about erlang/spidermonkey/mod-couch/icu they just care about
the API.
Maybe a diagram with a Browser, JSON, HTTP REST -> CouchDB?
-Mikeal
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> On 9 Jul 2010, at 12:38, David Coallier wrote:
>
> > Noah, what's the expected release date of 1.0.0 ?
>
> Real Soon Now.
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
On 9 Jul 2010, at 12:38, David Coallier wrote:
> Noah, what's the expected release date of 1.0.0 ?
Real Soon Now.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
> It's deja vu all over again.
>
Ok deja-vu it is. Let's move on and do something.
I've just forked the repo and will start copying some text over the weekend.
Noah, what's the expected release date of 1.0.0 ?
Anyone else willing to help with all the static pages over the
weekend? I'm not designer but I sure want something to along with 1.0
so let's stop arsing around and let's get a move on.
Regarding the design, James, Chris, is there a full width version (By
full width I mean the 2 content columns together not actual full page
width) -- This would be used for the screenshots page.
Cheers,
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jon Gretar Borgthorsson <jo...@jongretar.com>.
It's deja vu all over again.
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Manokaran K <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am I the only one experiencing deja vu now? :-)
>
> regds,
> mano
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Manokaran K <ma...@gmail.com>.
Am I the only one experiencing deja vu now? :-)
regds,
mano
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Jon Gretar Borgthorsson <jo...@jongretar.com>.
I was just thinking about that.
I think it would be great to have something nice with the upcoming 1.0
release. Even though many of us are geeks and are used to browse some
horrible websites(like most Apache project have) I must say that having a
nice site says a lot about being *a part* of the web. Current website
reminds of the days of dialup and the console. :)
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:38 AM, David Coallier <da...@php.net> wrote:
> *Bump*
>
> Hey all,
>
> I was thinking that it might be a nice idea to coordinate the redesign
> of the website with the release of 1.0.0.
>
> On this, let the discussions begin! :) Anyone's got something?
>
> --
> David Coallier
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@php.net>.
*Bump*
Hey all,
I was thinking that it might be a nice idea to coordinate the redesign
of the website with the release of 1.0.0.
On this, let the discussions begin! :) Anyone's got something?
--
David Coallier
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 20, 2010, at 2:15 AM, James Fisher wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:17 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:41 AM, James Fisher wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I've had a long weekend away. Nice to see this thread's still active.
>>>
>>> I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out. My opinions
>>> haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in
>> favour
>>> of keeping Myriad. (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with
>>> Comic Sans. I could show you what that would look like; you'd be
>>> horrified. It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any
>>> reputability of any other rounded fonts.)
>>>
>>
>> I'm fairly certain that we can't check Myriad into the ASF repo, no matter
>> what. (Well, unless we can convince the authors to put it under an open
>> license.)
>>
>>
> Hey Chris,
>
> DW, that's not what I was suggesting. The use of Myriad would be restricted
> to rasterized versions of the: (1) logo, (2) "time to relax" slogan, (3)
> "Goodbye, ..." intro text (that's now rasterized into the background PNG in
> the screenshot). I was hoping that someone with a good copy of Myriad
> could:
>
> * fork my git repo
> * open the background SVG in Inkscape
> * change the appropriate text to Myriad semibold
> * resize the text as appropriate
> * convert all Myriad text to paths (so I can work with it)
> * update the raster copy of the background (background.png)
> * push
>
> That way Myriad would never be uploaded.
>
>
>> On a separate note I'm not sure how I feel about CSS fonts in general.
>> Maybe I'm an old timer, but Helvetica and Georgia are all we really need!
>>
>>
> As should now be clear, I wasn't using Myriad as a @font-face font. The
> screenshot was misleading in that I now obviously have an installed copy of
> Myriad on my machine.
>
> WRT Helvetica: I'm not one of those font purists that loves Helvetica over
> Arial -- in the interests of consistency, if Arial were a possible
> alternative, I'd just use that in CSS.
>
> Also: dunno what you think, but Verdana seems more like cheap Myriad
> substitutes than Arial. Note the much more open counters. In fact, I've
> just been experimenting, and Verdana 12px ~= Myriad 14px nicely enough that
> I barely notice it.
The new screenshot looks great. I'm glad this project is keeping momentum!
I've been thinking about the old schematic (with Lucene and everything). I'm wondering what it would be like to keep it in. Or maybe we can get Damien to draw a new one, so it maintains the same style.
Chris
>
>
>> Too bad, the Myriad screenshot looks really nice, but I think we shouldn't
>> get too hooked on the impossible.
>>
>>> WRT Chris' fork:
>>>
>>> * I like the copy; I've pulled it
>>
>> Thanks! (Although your screenshot still shows the old copy.)
>>
>> I also changed the quote to one that doesn't mention Django at all:
>>
>> “I’ve never seen software that so completely embraces the philosophies
>> behind HTTP... this is what the software of the future looks like.”
>> — Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Django creator
>>
>
> Screenshot updated. It's such a flattering quote, I think everyone has
> their own favourite parts of it :)
>
>
>>
>>> * The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure
>> swapping
>>> back to plain is the best solution. I've lightened the cyans I was
>> working
>>> with.
>>> * I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax"
>> slogan
>>> looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space.
>>> * The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied.
>>> The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is
>>> bad. Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from
>>> there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text. That's
>> alright
>>> with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the
>> same
>>> (or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped.
>>
>> I have a feeling pages other than the front page would not dedicate the
>> upper 500px to a relaxing picture of guy on a Couch under a lamp, so we
>> could so something for nav in that space.
>>
>>
> Heh, yeah. ATM my suggestion for more compact pages would be something
> like:
>
> * Remove the intro text
> * Remove the quote and the lamp
> * Move the sofa guy up to roughly fill that space
>
>
>
>> I agree, the bullet list isn't good. That's the point at which I stopped
>> working...
>>
>>>
>>> This is how things stand:
>>> http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
>>>
>>
>
> Updated screenshot:
> http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
> Rasterized Myriad; Verdana webfont.
>
>
>>
>> With Myriad, I like the nav at the top right a lot more. Maybe it'll look
>> ok in Helvetica also?
>>
>>> Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should
>> actually
>>> be in *Semibold*. Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of
>>> Myriad. Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll
>> pull
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne <
>> dionne@dionne-associates.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can
>>>> lose the two commas.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but
>>>> CouchDB is built of the Web."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a
>> screenshot:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
>>>>>
>>>>> The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
>>>>>
>>>>> The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back
>>>> toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some
>> work,
>>>> but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They
>>>> both
>>>>>>> look fine to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <
>>>> pawelstawicki@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old
>>>> one,
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> be new one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Paweł Stawicki
>>>>>>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jchris@apache.org
>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <
>>>> jchris@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change
>> the
>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go
>>>> back
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and
>> cons
>>>>>>>> are:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained
>> brand
>>>>>>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are
>>>> already
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark,
>>>> we'd
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away
>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going
>> to
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't
>> managed
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> hoover
>>>>>>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists
>> own
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> genuine copy.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
>>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could
>>>> call
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB
>>>> identity
>>>>>>>> fits
>>>>>>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on
>> an
>>>>>>>>>> aluminium
>>>>>>>>>>> couch.
>>>>>>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a
>>>> "friendly
>>>>>>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's
>>>> used
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Candela pros:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and
>> any
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
>>>>>>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
>>>>>>>> potentially
>>>>>>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey
>> would
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> nice
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
>>>>>>>> brightness.
>>>>>>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
>>>>>>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
>>>>>>>> attached
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing
>> this
>>>>>>>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might
>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe
>>>> get
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Phil Rand
>>>>>>> philrand@gmail.com
>>>>>>> philrand@pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:17 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:41 AM, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I've had a long weekend away. Nice to see this thread's still active.
> >
> > I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out. My opinions
> > haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in
> favour
> > of keeping Myriad. (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with
> > Comic Sans. I could show you what that would look like; you'd be
> > horrified. It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any
> > reputability of any other rounded fonts.)
> >
>
> I'm fairly certain that we can't check Myriad into the ASF repo, no matter
> what. (Well, unless we can convince the authors to put it under an open
> license.)
>
>
Hey Chris,
DW, that's not what I was suggesting. The use of Myriad would be restricted
to rasterized versions of the: (1) logo, (2) "time to relax" slogan, (3)
"Goodbye, ..." intro text (that's now rasterized into the background PNG in
the screenshot). I was hoping that someone with a good copy of Myriad
could:
* fork my git repo
* open the background SVG in Inkscape
* change the appropriate text to Myriad semibold
* resize the text as appropriate
* convert all Myriad text to paths (so I can work with it)
* update the raster copy of the background (background.png)
* push
That way Myriad would never be uploaded.
> On a separate note I'm not sure how I feel about CSS fonts in general.
> Maybe I'm an old timer, but Helvetica and Georgia are all we really need!
>
>
As should now be clear, I wasn't using Myriad as a @font-face font. The
screenshot was misleading in that I now obviously have an installed copy of
Myriad on my machine.
WRT Helvetica: I'm not one of those font purists that loves Helvetica over
Arial -- in the interests of consistency, if Arial were a possible
alternative, I'd just use that in CSS.
Also: dunno what you think, but Verdana seems more like cheap Myriad
substitutes than Arial. Note the much more open counters. In fact, I've
just been experimenting, and Verdana 12px ~= Myriad 14px nicely enough that
I barely notice it.
> Too bad, the Myriad screenshot looks really nice, but I think we shouldn't
> get too hooked on the impossible.
>
> > WRT Chris' fork:
> >
> > * I like the copy; I've pulled it
>
> Thanks! (Although your screenshot still shows the old copy.)
>
> I also changed the quote to one that doesn't mention Django at all:
>
> “I’ve never seen software that so completely embraces the philosophies
> behind HTTP... this is what the software of the future looks like.”
> — Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Django creator
>
Screenshot updated. It's such a flattering quote, I think everyone has
their own favourite parts of it :)
>
> > * The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure
> swapping
> > back to plain is the best solution. I've lightened the cyans I was
> working
> > with.
> > * I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax"
> slogan
> > looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space.
> > * The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied.
> > The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is
> > bad. Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from
> > there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text. That's
> alright
> > with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the
> same
> > (or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped.
>
> I have a feeling pages other than the front page would not dedicate the
> upper 500px to a relaxing picture of guy on a Couch under a lamp, so we
> could so something for nav in that space.
>
>
Heh, yeah. ATM my suggestion for more compact pages would be something
like:
* Remove the intro text
* Remove the quote and the lamp
* Move the sofa guy up to roughly fill that space
> I agree, the bullet list isn't good. That's the point at which I stopped
> working...
>
> >
> > This is how things stand:
> > http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
> >
>
Updated screenshot:
http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
Rasterized Myriad; Verdana webfont.
>
> With Myriad, I like the nav at the top right a lot more. Maybe it'll look
> ok in Helvetica also?
>
> > Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should
> actually
> > be in *Semibold*. Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of
> > Myriad. Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll
> pull
> > it.
> >
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne <
> dionne@dionne-associates.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can
> >> lose the two commas.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
> >>>>
> >>>> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but
> >> CouchDB is built of the Web."
> >>>>
> >>>> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a
> screenshot:
> >>>
> >>> http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
> >>>
> >>> The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
> >>>
> >>> The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back
> >> toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some
> work,
> >> but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They
> >> both
> >>>>> look fine to me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <
> >> pawelstawicki@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old
> >> one,
> >>>>>> can
> >>>>>>> be new one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Paweł Stawicki
> >>>>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
> >>>>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jchris@apache.org
> >
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <
> >> jchris@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> >>>>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change
> the
> >>>>>> word
> >>>>>>>> mark
> >>>>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go
> >> back
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and
> cons
> >>>>>> are:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> >>>>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained
> brand
> >>>>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are
> >> already
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark,
> >> we'd
> >>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away
> >> people
> >>>>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going
> to
> >> be
> >>>>>>>> used
> >>>>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> cons:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't
> managed
> >> to
> >>>>>>>> hoover
> >>>>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists
> own
> >> a
> >>>>>>>>> genuine copy.
> >>>>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
> >>>>>> there's
> >>>>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could
> >> call
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB
> >> identity
> >>>>>> fits
> >>>>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on
> an
> >>>>>>>> aluminium
> >>>>>>>>> couch.
> >>>>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a
> >> "friendly
> >>>>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
> >>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's
> >> used
> >>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>> All
> >>>>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Candela pros:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> >>>>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and
> any
> >>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> >>>>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
> >>>>>> potentially
> >>>>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> cons:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey
> would
> >> be
> >>>>>>>> nice
> >>>>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
> >>>>>> brightness.
> >>>>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
> >>>>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
> >>>>>> attached
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>>> convert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing
> this
> >>>>>>>> email?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Julian
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might
> >> get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
> >>>>>> forward
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe
> >> get
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> N
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Phil Rand
> >>>>> philrand@gmail.com
> >>>>> philrand@pobox.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:41 AM, James Fisher wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've had a long weekend away. Nice to see this thread's still active.
>
> I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out. My opinions
> haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in favour
> of keeping Myriad. (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with
> Comic Sans. I could show you what that would look like; you'd be
> horrified. It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any
> reputability of any other rounded fonts.)
>
I'm fairly certain that we can't check Myriad into the ASF repo, no matter what. (Well, unless we can convince the authors to put it under an open license.)
On a separate note I'm not sure how I feel about CSS fonts in general. Maybe I'm an old timer, but Helvetica and Georgia are all we really need!
Too bad, the Myriad screenshot looks really nice, but I think we shouldn't get too hooked on the impossible.
> WRT Chris' fork:
>
> * I like the copy; I've pulled it
Thanks! (Although your screenshot still shows the old copy.)
I also changed the quote to one that doesn't mention Django at all:
“I’ve never seen software that so completely embraces the philosophies behind HTTP... this is what the software of the future looks like.”
— Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Django creator
> * The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure swapping
> back to plain is the best solution. I've lightened the cyans I was working
> with.
> * I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax" slogan
> looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space.
> * The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied.
> The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is
> bad. Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from
> there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text. That's alright
> with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the same
> (or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped.
I have a feeling pages other than the front page would not dedicate the upper 500px to a relaxing picture of guy on a Couch under a lamp, so we could so something for nav in that space.
I agree, the bullet list isn't good. That's the point at which I stopped working...
>
> This is how things stand:
> http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
>
With Myriad, I like the nav at the top right a lot more. Maybe it'll look ok in Helvetica also?
> Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should actually
> be in *Semibold*. Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of
> Myriad. Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll pull
> it.
>
>
> James
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne <dionne@dionne-associates.com
>> wrote:
>
>> This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can
>> lose the two commas.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
>>>
>>>> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
>>>>
>>>> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
>>>>
>>>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but
>> CouchDB is built of the Web."
>>>>
>>>> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a screenshot:
>>>
>>> http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
>>>
>>> The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
>>>
>>> The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back
>> toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
>>>
>>> Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some work,
>> but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
>>>>>
>>>>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They
>> both
>>>>> look fine to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <
>> pawelstawicki@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old
>> one,
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> be new one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Paweł Stawicki
>>>>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <
>> jchris@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>>>>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go
>> back
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
>>>>>> are:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
>>>>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
>>>>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are
>> already
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark,
>> we'd
>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away
>> people
>>>>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to
>> be
>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed
>> to
>>>>>>>> hoover
>>>>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own
>> a
>>>>>>>>> genuine copy.
>>>>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could
>> call
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB
>> identity
>>>>>> fits
>>>>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
>>>>>>>> aluminium
>>>>>>>>> couch.
>>>>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a
>> "friendly
>>>>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's
>> used
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Candela pros:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
>>>>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
>>>>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
>>>>>> potentially
>>>>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would
>> be
>>>>>>>> nice
>>>>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
>>>>>> brightness.
>>>>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
>>>>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
>>>>>> attached
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able
>> to
>>>>>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
>>>>>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might
>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe
>> get
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Phil Rand
>>>>> philrand@gmail.com
>>>>> philrand@pobox.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
Hey all,
I've had a long weekend away. Nice to see this thread's still active.
I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out. My opinions
haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in favour
of keeping Myriad. (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with
Comic Sans. I could show you what that would look like; you'd be
horrified. It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any
reputability of any other rounded fonts.)
WRT Chris' fork:
* I like the copy; I've pulled it
* The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure swapping
back to plain is the best solution. I've lightened the cyans I was working
with.
* I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax" slogan
looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space.
* The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied.
The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is
bad. Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from
there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text. That's alright
with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the same
(or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped.
This is how things stand:
http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png
Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should actually
be in *Semibold*. Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of
Myriad. Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll pull
it.
James
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne <dionne@dionne-associates.com
> wrote:
> This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can
> lose the two commas.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>
> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
> >
> >> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
> >>
> >> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
> >>
> >> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but
> CouchDB is built of the Web."
> >>
> >> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >
> > I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a screenshot:
> >
> > http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
> >
> > The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
> >
> > The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back
> toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
> >
> > Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some work,
> but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
> >>
> >>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
> >>>
> >>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
> >>>
> >>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They
> both
> >>> look fine to me.
> >>>
> >>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <
> pawelstawicki@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old
> one,
> >>>> can
> >>>>> be new one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Paweł Stawicki
> >>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
> >>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <
> jchris@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> >>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
> >>>> word
> >>>>>> mark
> >>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go
> back
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
> >>>> are:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> >>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
> >>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are
> already
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark,
> we'd
> >>>> only
> >>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away
> people
> >>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to
> be
> >>>>>> used
> >>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> cons:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed
> to
> >>>>>> hoover
> >>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own
> a
> >>>>>>> genuine copy.
> >>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
> >>>> there's
> >>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could
> call
> >>>> that
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB
> identity
> >>>> fits
> >>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
> >>>>>> aluminium
> >>>>>>> couch.
> >>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a
> "friendly
> >>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
> >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's
> used
> >>>> by
> >>>>>> All
> >>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Candela pros:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> >>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
> >>>> other
> >>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> >>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
> >>>> potentially
> >>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> cons:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would
> be
> >>>>>> nice
> >>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
> >>>> brightness.
> >>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
> >>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
> >>>> attached
> >>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able
> to
> >>>>>>>> convert
> >>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
> >>>>>> email?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>> Julian
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might
> get
> >>>>>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
> >>>> forward
> >>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe
> get
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> N
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Phil Rand
> >>> philrand@gmail.com
> >>> philrand@pobox.com
> >>
> >
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Robert Dionne <di...@dionne-associates.com>.
This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can lose the two commas.
Cheers,
Bob
On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
>
>> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
>>
>> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
>>
>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
>>
>> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>
> I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a screenshot:
>
> http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
>
> The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
>
> The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
>
> Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some work, but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
>
> Chris
>
>
>> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
>>
>>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
>>>
>>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
>>>
>>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They both
>>> look fine to me.
>>>
>>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one,
>>>> can
>>>>> be new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Paweł Stawicki
>>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
>>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
>>>> word
>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back
>>>> to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
>>>> are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
>>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
>>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already
>>>> a
>>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd
>>>> only
>>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
>>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
>>>>>> hoover
>>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
>>>>>>> genuine copy.
>>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
>>>> there's
>>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call
>>>> that
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity
>>>> fits
>>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
>>>>>> aluminium
>>>>>>> couch.
>>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
>>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used
>>>> by
>>>>>> All
>>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Candela pros:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
>>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
>>>> other
>>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
>>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
>>>> potentially
>>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
>>>>>> nice
>>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
>>>> brightness.
>>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
>>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
>>>> attached
>>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
>>>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
>>>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get
>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Phil Rand
>>> philrand@gmail.com
>>> philrand@pobox.com
>>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
>
> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
>
> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
>
> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
>
> Thoughts?
>
I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a screenshot:
http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some work, but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
Chris
> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
>
>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
>>
>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
>>
>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They both
>> look fine to me.
>>
>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
>>
>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one,
>>> can
>>>> be new one.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Paweł Stawicki
>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
>>> word
>>>>> mark
>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back
>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
>>> are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already
>>> a
>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd
>>> only
>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>>>>>
>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
>>>>>
>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
>>>>> used
>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
>>>>> hoover
>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
>>>>>> genuine copy.
>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
>>> there's
>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call
>>> that
>>>>> a
>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity
>>> fits
>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
>>>>> aluminium
>>>>>> couch.
>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used
>>> by
>>>>> All
>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Candela pros:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
>>> other
>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
>>> potentially
>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
>>>>> nice
>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
>>> brightness.
>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
>>> attached
>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
>>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
>>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Phil Rand
>> philrand@gmail.com
>> philrand@pobox.com
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
"Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but CouchDB is built of the Web."
- http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
Thoughts?
On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
>
> Or "...comfortable with the web."
>
> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They both
> look fine to me.
>
> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
>
>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one,
>> can
>>> be new one.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paweł Stawicki
>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
>> word
>>>> mark
>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back
>> to
>>>> the
>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
>> are:
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
>>>>
>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already
>> a
>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>>>>
>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd
>> only
>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>>>>
>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
>>>>
>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
>>>> used
>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
>>>>>
>>>>> cons:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
>>>> hoover
>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
>>>>> genuine copy.
>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
>> there's
>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call
>> that
>>>> a
>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity
>> fits
>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
>>>> aluminium
>>>>> couch.
>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used
>> by
>>>> All
>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>> Candela pros:
>>>>>
>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
>> other
>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
>> potentially
>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>>>>>
>>>>> cons:
>>>>>
>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
>>>> nice
>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
>> brightness.
>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
>> attached
>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>>>>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
>> forward
>>>>>>>>> for the site.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get
>> in
>>>>>>>>> touch with:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Phil Rand
> philrand@gmail.com
> philrand@pobox.com
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Phil Rand <ph...@gmail.com>.
"CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
Or "...comfortable with the web."
Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They both
look fine to me.
2010/4/13 Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>
> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one,
> can
> > be new one.
> >
> > --
> > Paweł Stawicki
> > http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
> > http://szczecin.jug.pl
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> >> >> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> I really like the simplicity.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the
> word
> >> mark
> >> >> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back
> to
> >> the
> >> >> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons
> are:
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
> >> >
> >> > * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> >> > * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
> >> > identity, it's wise to keep it.
> >>
> >> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already
> a
> >> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
> >>
> >> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd
> only
> >> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
> >>
> >> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
> >> who want to use it for serious things.
> >>
> >> > * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
> >> used
> >> > extensively (I doubt it).
> >> >
> >> > cons:
> >> >
> >> > * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
> >> hoover
> >> > it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
> >> > genuine copy.
> >> > * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think
> there's
> >> > much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call
> that
> >> a
> >> > pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity
> fits
> >> > very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
> >> aluminium
> >> > couch.
> >> > * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
> >> > high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used
> by
> >> All
> >> > Nippon business class flights.
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Candela pros:
> >> >
> >> > * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> >> > * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any
> other
> >> > CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> >> > * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it
> potentially
> >> > highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
> >> >
> >> > cons:
> >> >
> >> > * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
> >> nice
> >> >> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the
> brightness.
> >> > Doing a bit of both helps.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
> >> mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Hi,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> James Fisher schrieb:
> >> >>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find
> attached
> >> >>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
> >> >> convert
> >> >>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Let me know if
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
> >> email?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Regards
> >> >>>> Julian
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >> >>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> >> >>>>> something
> >> >>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Homepage:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Wiki:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way
> forward
> >> >>>>> for the site.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get
> in
> >> >>>>> touch with:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >> >>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> N
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
--
Phil Rand
philrand@gmail.com
philrand@pobox.com
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>.
Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one, can
> be new one.
>
> --
> Paweł Stawicki
> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
> http://szczecin.jug.pl
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>> >> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I really like the simplicity.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> >
>> >> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the word
>> mark
>> >> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back to
>> the
>> >> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>> >
>> >
>> > Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons are:
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>> >
>> > * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
>> > * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
>> > identity, it's wise to keep it.
>>
>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already a
>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>>
>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd only
>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>>
>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
>> who want to use it for serious things.
>>
>> > * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
>> used
>> > extensively (I doubt it).
>> >
>> > cons:
>> >
>> > * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
>> hoover
>> > it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
>> > genuine copy.
>> > * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think there's
>> > much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call that
>> a
>> > pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity fits
>> > very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
>> aluminium
>> > couch.
>> > * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
>> > high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used by
>> All
>> > Nippon business class flights.
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Candela pros:
>> >
>> > * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
>> > * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any other
>> > CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
>> > * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it potentially
>> > highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>> >
>> > cons:
>> >
>> > * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
>> nice
>> >> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the brightness.
>> > Doing a bit of both helps.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>> >>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
>> >>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
>> >> convert
>> >>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Let me know if
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
>> email?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards
>> >>>> Julian
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>> >>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>> >>>>> something
>> >>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Homepage:
>> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Wiki:
>> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
>> >>>>> for the site.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
>> >>>>> touch with:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>> >>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> N
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Paweł Stawicki <pa...@gmail.com>.
I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old one, can
be new one.
--
Paweł Stawicki
http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
http://szczecin.jug.pl
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>
> >>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> >> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >>>
> >>
> >> I really like the simplicity.
> >>
> >>
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the word
> mark
> >> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back to
> the
> >> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
> >
> >
> > Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons are:
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
> >
> > * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> > * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
> > identity, it's wise to keep it.
>
> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already a
> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
>
> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd only
> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
>
> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people
> who want to use it for serious things.
>
> > * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be
> used
> > extensively (I doubt it).
> >
> > cons:
> >
> > * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to
> hoover
> > it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
> > genuine copy.
> > * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think there's
> > much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call that
> a
> > pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity fits
> > very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an
> aluminium
> > couch.
> > * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
> > high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used by
> All
> > Nippon business class flights.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Candela pros:
> >
> > * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> > * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any other
> > CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> > * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it potentially
> > highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
> >
> > cons:
> >
> > * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> >> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be
> nice
> >> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> >>
> >
> > I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the brightness.
> > Doing a bit of both helps.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
> mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
> >>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
> >> convert
> >>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let me know if
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this
> email?
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> Julian
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> >>>>> something
> >>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Homepage:
> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wiki:
> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
> >>>>> for the site.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
> >>>>> touch with:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> N
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@apache.org>.
On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>>
>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>>>
>>
>> I really like the simplicity.
>>
>>
> Thanks.
>
>
>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the word mark
>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back to the
>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
>
>
> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons are:
>
> ---
>
> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
>
> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
> identity, it's wise to keep it.
I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are already a ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, we'd only move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away people who want to use it for serious things.
> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be used
> extensively (I doubt it).
>
> cons:
>
> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to hoover
> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
> genuine copy.
> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think there's
> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call that a
> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity fits
> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an aluminium
> couch.
> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used by All
> Nippon business class flights.
>
> ---
>
> Candela pros:
>
> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any other
> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it potentially
> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
>
> cons:
>
> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
>
> ---
>
>
>
>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be nice
>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>>
>
> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the brightness.
> Doing a bit of both helps.
>
>
>
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
>> convert
>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know if
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Julian
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>>>> something
>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>>>
>>>>> Homepage:
>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>>>
>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>>>
>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>>>
>>>>> Wiki:
>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>>>
>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
>>>>> for the site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
>>>>> touch with:
>>>>>
>>>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> N
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >
>
> I really like the simplicity.
>
>
Thanks.
> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the word mark
> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back to the
> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and cons are:
---
Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
* Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
* Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained brand
identity, it's wise to keep it.
* Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going to be used
extensively (I doubt it).
cons:
* Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't managed to hoover
it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists own a
genuine copy.
* Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think there's
much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could call that a
pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB identity fits
very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on an aluminium
couch.
* (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a "friendly
high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's used by All
Nippon business class flights.
---
Candela pros:
* I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
* Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and any other
CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
* Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it potentially
highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
cons:
* CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
---
> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be nice
> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
>
I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the brightness.
Doing a bit of both helps.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
> >>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
> convert
> >>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >>>
> >>> Let me know if
> >>>
> >>
> >> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Julian
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> >>> something
> >>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>
> >>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>
> >>> Homepage:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>
> >>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>
> >>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>
> >>> Wiki:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>
> >>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>
> >>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
> >>> for the site.
> >>>
> >>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
> >>> touch with:
> >>>
> >>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>
> >>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> N
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>
I really like the simplicity.
I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change the word mark associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go back to the old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that, and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey would be nice I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert
>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>
>>> Let me know if
>>>
>>
>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>> something
>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>
>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>
>>> Homepage:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>
>>> Wiki:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>
>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>
>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
>>> for the site.
>>>
>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
>>> touch with:
>>>
>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>
>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:07 AM, J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >
>
> James,
>
> Your site design has growing on me all day. Especially when I picture it
> with the old Myriad logo and a toned-down cyan background color. You've
> inspired me to write copy that I hope tells the CouchDB story in a way
> that's been lacking on the current site, emphasizing the use cases for which
> CouchDB is uniquely suited.
>
> I'd love feedback from people, mostly about direction and tone. I'm sure
> we'll do a spelling etc pass before anything goes live. Right now I'm just
> interested in the big section headers, and the overall points. Are there
> other big headings missing? Should one of the topics be addressed in a
> different way?
>
> Cross posting to dev because I think site design and copy is one of those
> things that should be discussed on both lists.
>
I'll join that.
>
> Here it is:
>
> ==
>
> Time to Relax
> Goodbye, schemas and SQL, hello JSON and Map Reduce. Apache CouchDB is a
> database built for the web.
>
> Ground Computing
>
This is the one thing I'm not sure of here -- is "ground computing" an
established term? Not sure what it means.
> CouchDB solves the data-island problem for you, so you can write offline
> capable applications using a simple document model. Peer-based replication
> allows for flexible deployments, data-sharing between organizations, and
> no-hassle backups. Running CouchDB on the client with continuous replication
> to remote servers also offers better latency and reliability than
> traditional three-tier architectures. Ground computing is the future of the
> web.
>
> Web Scale
> CouchDB's Erlang and REST-based implementation is designed to scale from a
> smartphone to a data-center, and beyond. It presents the same API whether
> running on a small local instance, a multi-terabyte eventually-consistent
> cluster, or an ad-hoc network of collaborators.
>
> Reliable
> CouchDB uses append-only storage, never touching any bytes already written
> to disk. This means once an update is committed, it is durable -- even
> truncating a CouchDB database file yields a consistent snapshot of an older
> version of the database. Writes are contiguous, giving CouchDB predictable
> performance even under heavily concurrent write load.
>
> Flexible
> CouchDB is queried using Map Reduce functions written in JavaScript (or
> your language of choice). Map Reduce's flexibility you can start saving your
> data today, and adapt your queries as your application evolves, without
> migrating your data formats. CouchDB's views are optimized for (soft)
> real-time workloads, rather than large batch operations. Thanks to the MVCC
> data model, CouchDB's views are suitable for banking and other operations
> that require consistency.
>
> Trusted
> CouchDB is deployed by the BBC, Meebo, Cloudant and Ubuntu One. It ships as
> a core feature of Ubuntu Linux. There are access libraries available in
> nearly every language.
>
>
I like this. It's less patronising than my copy. The main thing I like is
that it's thoroughly real-world-oriented -- no acronym without telling you
why you should care.
I'm guessing the small text area I'm currently working with could become
inhibiting very soon. I would consider putting your five globs of text
side-by-side across the width of the page -- a bit like the five sections in
http://www.ubuntu.com/ (has anyone else seen the new ubuntu branding? --
blech!). The page links could possibly go up top somehow.
> ==
>
> I'd like to pepper this text with hyperlinks to blog-posts and other
> documentation, case-studies, etc. We could expand the list of users in the
> last section by a couple of names, if people have suggestions.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
I'm going to put the current stuff on github in the next hour or so.
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
> >>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
> convert
> >>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >>>
> >>> Let me know if
> >>>
> >>
> >> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Julian
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> >>> something
> >>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>
> >>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>
> >>> Homepage:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>
> >>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>
> >>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>
> >>> Wiki:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>
> >>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>
> >>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
> >>> for the site.
> >>>
> >>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
> >>> touch with:
> >>>
> >>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>
> >>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> N
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>
James,
Your site design has growing on me all day. Especially when I picture it with the old Myriad logo and a toned-down cyan background color. You've inspired me to write copy that I hope tells the CouchDB story in a way that's been lacking on the current site, emphasizing the use cases for which CouchDB is uniquely suited.
I'd love feedback from people, mostly about direction and tone. I'm sure we'll do a spelling etc pass before anything goes live. Right now I'm just interested in the big section headers, and the overall points. Are there other big headings missing? Should one of the topics be addressed in a different way?
Cross posting to dev because I think site design and copy is one of those things that should be discussed on both lists.
Here it is:
==
Time to Relax
Goodbye, schemas and SQL, hello JSON and Map Reduce. Apache CouchDB is a database built for the web.
Ground Computing
CouchDB solves the data-island problem for you, so you can write offline capable applications using a simple document model. Peer-based replication allows for flexible deployments, data-sharing between organizations, and no-hassle backups. Running CouchDB on the client with continuous replication to remote servers also offers better latency and reliability than traditional three-tier architectures. Ground computing is the future of the web.
Web Scale
CouchDB's Erlang and REST-based implementation is designed to scale from a smartphone to a data-center, and beyond. It presents the same API whether running on a small local instance, a multi-terabyte eventually-consistent cluster, or an ad-hoc network of collaborators.
Reliable
CouchDB uses append-only storage, never touching any bytes already written to disk. This means once an update is committed, it is durable -- even truncating a CouchDB database file yields a consistent snapshot of an older version of the database. Writes are contiguous, giving CouchDB predictable performance even under heavily concurrent write load.
Flexible
CouchDB is queried using Map Reduce functions written in JavaScript (or your language of choice). Map Reduce's flexibility you can start saving your data today, and adapt your queries as your application evolves, without migrating your data formats. CouchDB's views are optimized for (soft) real-time workloads, rather than large batch operations. Thanks to the MVCC data model, CouchDB's views are suitable for banking and other operations that require consistency.
Trusted
CouchDB is deployed by the BBC, Meebo, Cloudant and Ubuntu One. It ships as a core feature of Ubuntu Linux. There are access libraries available in nearly every language.
==
I'd like to pepper this text with hyperlinks to blog-posts and other documentation, case-studies, etc. We could expand the list of users in the last section by a couple of names, if people have suggestions.
Chris
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert
>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>
>>> Let me know if
>>>
>>
>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>> something
>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>
>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>
>>> Homepage:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>
>>> Wiki:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>
>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>
>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
>>> for the site.
>>>
>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
>>> touch with:
>>>
>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>
>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by J Chris Anderson <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>
James,
Your site design has growing on me all day. Especially when I picture it with the old Myriad logo and a toned-down cyan background color. You've inspired me to write copy that I hope tells the CouchDB story in a way that's been lacking on the current site, emphasizing the use cases for which CouchDB is uniquely suited.
I'd love feedback from people, mostly about direction and tone. I'm sure we'll do a spelling etc pass before anything goes live. Right now I'm just interested in the big section headers, and the overall points. Are there other big headings missing? Should one of the topics be addressed in a different way?
Cross posting to dev because I think site design and copy is one of those things that should be discussed on both lists.
Here it is:
==
Time to Relax
Goodbye, schemas and SQL, hello JSON and Map Reduce. Apache CouchDB is a database built for the web.
Ground Computing
CouchDB solves the data-island problem for you, so you can write offline capable applications using a simple document model. Peer-based replication allows for flexible deployments, data-sharing between organizations, and no-hassle backups. Running CouchDB on the client with continuous replication to remote servers also offers better latency and reliability than traditional three-tier architectures. Ground computing is the future of the web.
Web Scale
CouchDB's Erlang and REST-based implementation is designed to scale from a smartphone to a data-center, and beyond. It presents the same API whether running on a small local instance, a multi-terabyte eventually-consistent cluster, or an ad-hoc network of collaborators.
Reliable
CouchDB uses append-only storage, never touching any bytes already written to disk. This means once an update is committed, it is durable -- even truncating a CouchDB database file yields a consistent snapshot of an older version of the database. Writes are contiguous, giving CouchDB predictable performance even under heavily concurrent write load.
Flexible
CouchDB is queried using Map Reduce functions written in JavaScript (or your language of choice). Map Reduce's flexibility you can start saving your data today, and adapt your queries as your application evolves, without migrating your data formats. CouchDB's views are optimized for (soft) real-time workloads, rather than large batch operations. Thanks to the MVCC data model, CouchDB's views are suitable for banking and other operations that require consistency.
Trusted
CouchDB is deployed by the BBC, Meebo, Cloudant and Ubuntu One. It ships as a core feature of Ubuntu Linux. There are access libraries available in nearly every language.
==
I'd like to pepper this text with hyperlinks to blog-posts and other documentation, case-studies, etc. We could expand the list of users in the last section by a couple of names, if people have suggestions.
Chris
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert
>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>
>>> Let me know if
>>>
>>
>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>> something
>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>
>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>
>>> Homepage:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>
>>> Wiki:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>
>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>
>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
>>> for the site.
>>>
>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
>>> touch with:
>>>
>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>
>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:21 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>
Good loocking but I would prefers actions in a more conventionnal
location. Iike on top or somewhere I don't have to scroll. I don't
got on such website for the design but for the information so access
to it should be fast.
- benoit
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
> OOohhh. Me likes. The cushions need some work though. Maybe something more
> abstract in the style of "the Dude."
>
>
Exactly, yeah. I've done a few sketches, but the problem refuses to go
away: blocky cushions don't look like cushions. I might abandon the whole
motif.
> On 13 Apr 2010, at 20:21, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Apalling internet connection atm. Try:
> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
> >>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to
> convert
> >>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >>>
> >>> Let me know if
> >>>
> >>
> >> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Julian
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> >>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> >>> something
> >>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>
> >>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>
> >>> Homepage:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>
> >>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>
> >>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>
> >>> Wiki:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>
> >>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>
> >>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
> >>> for the site.
> >>>
> >>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
> >>> touch with:
> >>>
> >>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> >> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>
> >>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> N
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
OOohhh. Me likes. The cushions need some work though. Maybe something more abstract in the style of "the Dude."
On 13 Apr 2010, at 20:21, James Fisher wrote:
> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> James Fisher schrieb:
>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert
>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>>>
>>> Let me know if
>>>
>>
>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
>>> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
>>> something
>>>> up in the next couple of days.
>>>
>>> Please take a look at these designs:
>>>
>>> Homepage:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Downloads:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>>>
>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>>>
>>> Wiki:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>>>
>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>>>
>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
>>> for the site.
>>>
>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
>>> touch with:
>>>
>>> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
>>>
>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
Apalling internet connection atm. Try: http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> James Fisher schrieb:
> > I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
> > one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert
> > to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
> >
> > Let me know if
> >
>
> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
>
> Regards
> Julian
>
> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> > <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> > something
> > > up in the next couple of days.
> >
> > Please take a look at these designs:
> >
> > Homepage:
> > http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >
> > Homepage/Downloads:
> > http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >
> > Homepage/Screenshots:
> > http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >
> > Wiki:
> > http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >
> > Wiki/Syntax reference:
> > http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >
> > I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
> > for the site.
> >
> > Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
> > touch with:
> >
> > maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <mailto:
> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >
> > He was doing most of the work on this last time!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > N
> >
> >
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Julian Moritz <ma...@julianmoritz.de>.
Hi,
James Fisher schrieb:
> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached
> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert
> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes:
>
> Let me know if
>
no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing this email?
Regards
Julian
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@me.com
> <ma...@me.com>> wrote:
>
>
> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> something
> > up in the next couple of days.
>
> Please take a look at these designs:
>
> Homepage:
> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>
> Homepage/Downloads:
> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>
> Homepage/Screenshots:
> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>
> Wiki:
> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>
> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>
> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward
> for the site.
>
> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in
> touch with:
>
> maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com <ma...@googlemail.com>>
>
> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>
> Thanks,
>
> N
>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find attached one
proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able to convert to HTML
with little fuss. A few notes:
* I threw away the font currently being used (I think it's Myriad, which to
me doesn't say "relaxation", and which I don't happen to have anyway).
Instead I went with http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/Candela , which I
really think fits. It says "informal" without looking rebellious, and has a
definite lounge-y "don't get off your feet" feel. As a bonus it's free and
will allow no-fuss @font-face use.
* I got rid of the green. To keep things dead simple I switched to the
exact complement of the main red -- a cyan.
* The wording needs work and is partly placeholder, but hopefully I've cut
out the diving into terminology without it being (too) patronising.
* it's a bit messy atm.
* I'm not really sure about those cushions I hacked up. The idea might be
alright, but the curveyness and gradients totally conflict with the CouchDB
logo.
* other points to make, I think, but I'm going to eat now.
Let me know if
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
>
> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get
> something
> > up in the next couple of days.
>
> Please take a look at these designs:
>
> Homepage:
> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
>
> Homepage/Downloads:
> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
>
> Homepage/Screenshots:
> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
>
> Wiki:
> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
>
> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
>
> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward for the
> site.
>
> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in touch
> with:
>
> maddiin <ma...@googlemail.com>
>
> He was doing most of the work on this last time!
>
> Thanks,
>
> N
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get something
> up in the next couple of days.
Please take a look at these designs:
Homepage:
http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
Homepage/Downloads:
http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
Homepage/Screenshots:
http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
Wiki:
http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
Wiki/Syntax reference:
http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way forward for the site.
Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe get in touch with:
maddiin <ma...@googlemail.com>
He was doing most of the work on this last time!
Thanks,
N
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@me.com> wrote:
>
> On 13 Apr 2010, at 12:12, James Fisher wrote:
>
> > Compare it, for example, with the simple design at
> http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
> > where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
> > active comparison.
>
> I dislike that look of that site strongly.
>
It's far from astounding, and it does have a very "templatey" feel. But at
least it's neat and inoffensive.
>
> > "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
> > way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its
> secrets."
>
> To twee.
>
Lol, I was exaggerating for effect. My point is many people visiting the
Couch site (myself, at the time, included; and presumably many experienced
designers) will see document-oriented databases as very unfamiliar
territory, and don't want to be barraged with terminology in the first
paragraph. Examples of good gentle introductory promotional paragraphs:
http://www.djangoproject.com/
http://rubyonrails.org/
http://sass-lang.com/
http://jquery.com/
... etc.
>
> > I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no
> experience
> > with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT
> the
> > site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
> > undertaking.
> >
> > Opinions?
>
> Get involved! The entire site is in Subversion, and patches are more than
> welcome. We've had some previous design ideas suggested, and I rather liked
> them. Unfortunately, we've never got around to doing anything with them.
> Maybe we could pick up from there, and see where it goes?
>
Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might get something
up in the next couple of days.
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@me.com>.
On 13 Apr 2010, at 12:12, James Fisher wrote:
> Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
> where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
> active comparison.
I dislike that look of that site strongly.
> "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
> way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
To twee.
> I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
> with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
> site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
> undertaking.
>
> Opinions?
Get involved! The entire site is in Subversion, and patches are more than welcome. We've had some previous design ideas suggested, and I rather liked them. Unfortunately, we've never got around to doing anything with them. Maybe we could pick up from there, and see where it goes?
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by David Coallier <da...@gmail.com>.
I'm fairly certain that coming up with an alternative design wouldn't
be a bad approach. Perhaps some sort of mockup of what you have in
mind or even a few PNGs to outline your design desires could give you
some leeway.
Regarding the red in the logo, I'm obliged to disagree. Maybe in
western cultures read might be interpreted as a "panic" color, however
in other countries as such as China, red means good luck and fortune,
in Hinduism red means life, energy, creativity, joy, etc, and the list
goes on :) I honest don't believe that the color of the logo or it's
look has to be changed soon.
However regarding the design, coming up with mockups might get you
much further :) Even further if you are willing to do the markup.
On 13 April 2010 12:17, Gregory Tappero <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I dare to say that i agree, it is repelling at first sight.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> I've recently fallen head-over-heels in love with CouchDB. However, this
>> (my first) email will probably be at best, constructively critical, and at
>> worst, offensive, but:
>>
>> Does the CouchDB project have any agreed visual brand identity, or is it
>> being worked on? I speak mainly of the pages at
>> http://couchdb.apache.org/. I'm the kind of person that judges a book
>> by its cover, and it took
>> consIiderable effort for me to stop my eyes being repelled from that page.
>> Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
>> where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
>> active comparison.
>>
>> CouchDB's slogan is "relax", but that web design gets me all agitated.
>> There's no room to breathe: logotype squished into a corner, small font,
>> subheadings imprisoned in dark green cells. No ample footer telling me I've
>> reached the end of the page and where I should go next; just a niggardly
>> copyright notice. Rather than relaxing, the guy on the sofa looks like he's
>> trying to squirm as far away from the page as possible.
>>
>> The sofa logo I'm not particularly opposed to, but: entirely saturated
>> primary red? That's the universal visual symbol for "PANIC!". I have this
>> passage from The Vagina Monologues indelibly imprinted on my memory:
>>
>> ---
>> Then he began to undress me.
>>
>> "What are you doing, Bob?" I said.
>>
>> "I need to see you," he replied.
>>
>> "No need," I said. "Just dive in."
>>
>> "I need to see what you look like," he said.
>>
>> "But you've seen a red leather couch before," I said.
>> ---
>>
>> ... blech.
>>
>> And: who could ever relax on such an angular sofa?
>>
>> The index page just doesn't sell it. A needless <h1> "The CouchDB Project"
>> tells me what I already know from looking at the logotype. The messy design
>> schema, which could be a quirky feature (though its appearance on the first
>> page is questionable), instead sits awkwardly on top of other headers and
>> squashing text out of the way, with an inappropriate yellow background that
>> together with the green suggests vomit (oh dear, on my nice new sofa).
>> There's no big bold text telling me that I should use CouchDB.
>>
>> The first paragraph: "Apache CouchDB is a document-oriented database that
>> can be queried and indexed in a MapReduce fashion using JavaScript. CouchDB
>> also offers incremental replication with bi-directional conflict detection
>> and resolution." This jumps into jargon way too soon -- as a prospective
>> user, the first thing I want to hear is something simple, comforting, and
>> whetting my appetite: "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
>> way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
>>
>> Next, the colour scheme. Red and dark-half-saturated green (I'm not even
>> sure whether that colour has a name)? Under no system of colour theory is
>> that an appropriate combination. I suspect it hasn't consciously been
>> decided upon as a palette -- the red appears nowhere else.
>>
>> What's with the needless breadcrumb trail across my entire 2000px-wide
>> screen? It might be appropriate for a massive site where getting lost is
>> easier than finding anything, but not here where every page is easily listed
>> down the left.
>>
>> And the diagonal pinstripe background -- that's so 2003. Nothing else on
>> the site implies that 45 degree angle. Get rid of it.
>>
>> Futon displays a different scheme: red with shades of grey. The slogan,
>> "relax," sits in a different place to the same slogan in the logotype on the
>> website. The text sits under, rather than aside, the sofa logo. The
>> "contract the sidebar" arrow inexplicably points up rather than to the
>> right.
>>
>> I'm getting into nitty-gritty now, but I hope I've made a point: CouchDB is
>> surely losing users by pushing them away with bad design. The main slogan,
>> "relax," I really, really like, but it unfortunately doesn't come across
>> anywhere. It should. The whole visual design specification should use this
>> one word as its starting point.
>>
>> I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
>> with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
>> site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
>> undertaking.
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>>
>>
>> James Fisher
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Greg Tappero
> CTO co founder Edoboard
> http://www.edoboard.com
> +33 0645764425
>
--
Slan,
David
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Adam Kocoloski <ko...@apache.org>.
Same here - didn't hate it, but it needs a refresh. Would welcome any assistance.
Adam
On Apr 13, 2010, at 7:32 AM, Robert Newson wrote:
> I second the call to see a mockup. I don't dislike the page as much as
> the OP but clearly it could be refreshed.
>
> B.
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Paul Davis
> <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I always quite liked it.
>>
>> Anyway, this is open sauce as they say. The quickest way to changing
>> something like that is to check out the site sources and mock up
>> something you think is better. Then submit it to JIRA and we'll ask
>> the community for consensus.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Paul Davis
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Gregory Tappero <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I dare to say that i agree, it is repelling at first sight.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've recently fallen head-over-heels in love with CouchDB. However, this
>>>> (my first) email will probably be at best, constructively critical, and at
>>>> worst, offensive, but:
>>>>
>>>> Does the CouchDB project have any agreed visual brand identity, or is it
>>>> being worked on? I speak mainly of the pages at
>>>> http://couchdb.apache.org/. I'm the kind of person that judges a book
>>>> by its cover, and it took
>>>> consIiderable effort for me to stop my eyes being repelled from that page.
>>>> Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
>>>> where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
>>>> active comparison.
>>>>
>>>> CouchDB's slogan is "relax", but that web design gets me all agitated.
>>>> There's no room to breathe: logotype squished into a corner, small font,
>>>> subheadings imprisoned in dark green cells. No ample footer telling me I've
>>>> reached the end of the page and where I should go next; just a niggardly
>>>> copyright notice. Rather than relaxing, the guy on the sofa looks like he's
>>>> trying to squirm as far away from the page as possible.
>>>>
>>>> The sofa logo I'm not particularly opposed to, but: entirely saturated
>>>> primary red? That's the universal visual symbol for "PANIC!". I have this
>>>> passage from The Vagina Monologues indelibly imprinted on my memory:
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Then he began to undress me.
>>>>
>>>> "What are you doing, Bob?" I said.
>>>>
>>>> "I need to see you," he replied.
>>>>
>>>> "No need," I said. "Just dive in."
>>>>
>>>> "I need to see what you look like," he said.
>>>>
>>>> "But you've seen a red leather couch before," I said.
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> ... blech.
>>>>
>>>> And: who could ever relax on such an angular sofa?
>>>>
>>>> The index page just doesn't sell it. A needless <h1> "The CouchDB Project"
>>>> tells me what I already know from looking at the logotype. The messy design
>>>> schema, which could be a quirky feature (though its appearance on the first
>>>> page is questionable), instead sits awkwardly on top of other headers and
>>>> squashing text out of the way, with an inappropriate yellow background that
>>>> together with the green suggests vomit (oh dear, on my nice new sofa).
>>>> There's no big bold text telling me that I should use CouchDB.
>>>>
>>>> The first paragraph: "Apache CouchDB is a document-oriented database that
>>>> can be queried and indexed in a MapReduce fashion using JavaScript. CouchDB
>>>> also offers incremental replication with bi-directional conflict detection
>>>> and resolution." This jumps into jargon way too soon -- as a prospective
>>>> user, the first thing I want to hear is something simple, comforting, and
>>>> whetting my appetite: "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
>>>> way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
>>>>
>>>> Next, the colour scheme. Red and dark-half-saturated green (I'm not even
>>>> sure whether that colour has a name)? Under no system of colour theory is
>>>> that an appropriate combination. I suspect it hasn't consciously been
>>>> decided upon as a palette -- the red appears nowhere else.
>>>>
>>>> What's with the needless breadcrumb trail across my entire 2000px-wide
>>>> screen? It might be appropriate for a massive site where getting lost is
>>>> easier than finding anything, but not here where every page is easily listed
>>>> down the left.
>>>>
>>>> And the diagonal pinstripe background -- that's so 2003. Nothing else on
>>>> the site implies that 45 degree angle. Get rid of it.
>>>>
>>>> Futon displays a different scheme: red with shades of grey. The slogan,
>>>> "relax," sits in a different place to the same slogan in the logotype on the
>>>> website. The text sits under, rather than aside, the sofa logo. The
>>>> "contract the sidebar" arrow inexplicably points up rather than to the
>>>> right.
>>>>
>>>> I'm getting into nitty-gritty now, but I hope I've made a point: CouchDB is
>>>> surely losing users by pushing them away with bad design. The main slogan,
>>>> "relax," I really, really like, but it unfortunately doesn't come across
>>>> anywhere. It should. The whole visual design specification should use this
>>>> one word as its starting point.
>>>>
>>>> I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
>>>> with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
>>>> site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
>>>> undertaking.
>>>>
>>>> Opinions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James Fisher
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Greg Tappero
>>> CTO co founder Edoboard
>>> http://www.edoboard.com
>>> +33 0645764425
>>>
>>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Robert Newson <ro...@gmail.com>.
I second the call to see a mockup. I don't dislike the page as much as
the OP but clearly it could be refreshed.
B.
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Paul Davis
<pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I always quite liked it.
>
> Anyway, this is open sauce as they say. The quickest way to changing
> something like that is to check out the site sources and mock up
> something you think is better. Then submit it to JIRA and we'll ask
> the community for consensus.
>
> HTH,
> Paul Davis
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Gregory Tappero <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I dare to say that i agree, it is repelling at first sight.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've recently fallen head-over-heels in love with CouchDB. However, this
>>> (my first) email will probably be at best, constructively critical, and at
>>> worst, offensive, but:
>>>
>>> Does the CouchDB project have any agreed visual brand identity, or is it
>>> being worked on? I speak mainly of the pages at
>>> http://couchdb.apache.org/. I'm the kind of person that judges a book
>>> by its cover, and it took
>>> consIiderable effort for me to stop my eyes being repelled from that page.
>>> Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
>>> where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
>>> active comparison.
>>>
>>> CouchDB's slogan is "relax", but that web design gets me all agitated.
>>> There's no room to breathe: logotype squished into a corner, small font,
>>> subheadings imprisoned in dark green cells. No ample footer telling me I've
>>> reached the end of the page and where I should go next; just a niggardly
>>> copyright notice. Rather than relaxing, the guy on the sofa looks like he's
>>> trying to squirm as far away from the page as possible.
>>>
>>> The sofa logo I'm not particularly opposed to, but: entirely saturated
>>> primary red? That's the universal visual symbol for "PANIC!". I have this
>>> passage from The Vagina Monologues indelibly imprinted on my memory:
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Then he began to undress me.
>>>
>>> "What are you doing, Bob?" I said.
>>>
>>> "I need to see you," he replied.
>>>
>>> "No need," I said. "Just dive in."
>>>
>>> "I need to see what you look like," he said.
>>>
>>> "But you've seen a red leather couch before," I said.
>>> ---
>>>
>>> ... blech.
>>>
>>> And: who could ever relax on such an angular sofa?
>>>
>>> The index page just doesn't sell it. A needless <h1> "The CouchDB Project"
>>> tells me what I already know from looking at the logotype. The messy design
>>> schema, which could be a quirky feature (though its appearance on the first
>>> page is questionable), instead sits awkwardly on top of other headers and
>>> squashing text out of the way, with an inappropriate yellow background that
>>> together with the green suggests vomit (oh dear, on my nice new sofa).
>>> There's no big bold text telling me that I should use CouchDB.
>>>
>>> The first paragraph: "Apache CouchDB is a document-oriented database that
>>> can be queried and indexed in a MapReduce fashion using JavaScript. CouchDB
>>> also offers incremental replication with bi-directional conflict detection
>>> and resolution." This jumps into jargon way too soon -- as a prospective
>>> user, the first thing I want to hear is something simple, comforting, and
>>> whetting my appetite: "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
>>> way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
>>>
>>> Next, the colour scheme. Red and dark-half-saturated green (I'm not even
>>> sure whether that colour has a name)? Under no system of colour theory is
>>> that an appropriate combination. I suspect it hasn't consciously been
>>> decided upon as a palette -- the red appears nowhere else.
>>>
>>> What's with the needless breadcrumb trail across my entire 2000px-wide
>>> screen? It might be appropriate for a massive site where getting lost is
>>> easier than finding anything, but not here where every page is easily listed
>>> down the left.
>>>
>>> And the diagonal pinstripe background -- that's so 2003. Nothing else on
>>> the site implies that 45 degree angle. Get rid of it.
>>>
>>> Futon displays a different scheme: red with shades of grey. The slogan,
>>> "relax," sits in a different place to the same slogan in the logotype on the
>>> website. The text sits under, rather than aside, the sofa logo. The
>>> "contract the sidebar" arrow inexplicably points up rather than to the
>>> right.
>>>
>>> I'm getting into nitty-gritty now, but I hope I've made a point: CouchDB is
>>> surely losing users by pushing them away with bad design. The main slogan,
>>> "relax," I really, really like, but it unfortunately doesn't come across
>>> anywhere. It should. The whole visual design specification should use this
>>> one word as its starting point.
>>>
>>> I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
>>> with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
>>> site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
>>> undertaking.
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> James Fisher
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Greg Tappero
>> CTO co founder Edoboard
>> http://www.edoboard.com
>> +33 0645764425
>>
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.
I always quite liked it.
Anyway, this is open sauce as they say. The quickest way to changing
something like that is to check out the site sources and mock up
something you think is better. Then submit it to JIRA and we'll ask
the community for consensus.
HTH,
Paul Davis
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Gregory Tappero <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I dare to say that i agree, it is repelling at first sight.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> I've recently fallen head-over-heels in love with CouchDB. However, this
>> (my first) email will probably be at best, constructively critical, and at
>> worst, offensive, but:
>>
>> Does the CouchDB project have any agreed visual brand identity, or is it
>> being worked on? I speak mainly of the pages at
>> http://couchdb.apache.org/. I'm the kind of person that judges a book
>> by its cover, and it took
>> consIiderable effort for me to stop my eyes being repelled from that page.
>> Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
>> where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
>> active comparison.
>>
>> CouchDB's slogan is "relax", but that web design gets me all agitated.
>> There's no room to breathe: logotype squished into a corner, small font,
>> subheadings imprisoned in dark green cells. No ample footer telling me I've
>> reached the end of the page and where I should go next; just a niggardly
>> copyright notice. Rather than relaxing, the guy on the sofa looks like he's
>> trying to squirm as far away from the page as possible.
>>
>> The sofa logo I'm not particularly opposed to, but: entirely saturated
>> primary red? That's the universal visual symbol for "PANIC!". I have this
>> passage from The Vagina Monologues indelibly imprinted on my memory:
>>
>> ---
>> Then he began to undress me.
>>
>> "What are you doing, Bob?" I said.
>>
>> "I need to see you," he replied.
>>
>> "No need," I said. "Just dive in."
>>
>> "I need to see what you look like," he said.
>>
>> "But you've seen a red leather couch before," I said.
>> ---
>>
>> ... blech.
>>
>> And: who could ever relax on such an angular sofa?
>>
>> The index page just doesn't sell it. A needless <h1> "The CouchDB Project"
>> tells me what I already know from looking at the logotype. The messy design
>> schema, which could be a quirky feature (though its appearance on the first
>> page is questionable), instead sits awkwardly on top of other headers and
>> squashing text out of the way, with an inappropriate yellow background that
>> together with the green suggests vomit (oh dear, on my nice new sofa).
>> There's no big bold text telling me that I should use CouchDB.
>>
>> The first paragraph: "Apache CouchDB is a document-oriented database that
>> can be queried and indexed in a MapReduce fashion using JavaScript. CouchDB
>> also offers incremental replication with bi-directional conflict detection
>> and resolution." This jumps into jargon way too soon -- as a prospective
>> user, the first thing I want to hear is something simple, comforting, and
>> whetting my appetite: "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
>> way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
>>
>> Next, the colour scheme. Red and dark-half-saturated green (I'm not even
>> sure whether that colour has a name)? Under no system of colour theory is
>> that an appropriate combination. I suspect it hasn't consciously been
>> decided upon as a palette -- the red appears nowhere else.
>>
>> What's with the needless breadcrumb trail across my entire 2000px-wide
>> screen? It might be appropriate for a massive site where getting lost is
>> easier than finding anything, but not here where every page is easily listed
>> down the left.
>>
>> And the diagonal pinstripe background -- that's so 2003. Nothing else on
>> the site implies that 45 degree angle. Get rid of it.
>>
>> Futon displays a different scheme: red with shades of grey. The slogan,
>> "relax," sits in a different place to the same slogan in the logotype on the
>> website. The text sits under, rather than aside, the sofa logo. The
>> "contract the sidebar" arrow inexplicably points up rather than to the
>> right.
>>
>> I'm getting into nitty-gritty now, but I hope I've made a point: CouchDB is
>> surely losing users by pushing them away with bad design. The main slogan,
>> "relax," I really, really like, but it unfortunately doesn't come across
>> anywhere. It should. The whole visual design specification should use this
>> one word as its starting point.
>>
>> I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
>> with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
>> site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
>> undertaking.
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>>
>>
>> James Fisher
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Greg Tappero
> CTO co founder Edoboard
> http://www.edoboard.com
> +33 0645764425
>
Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Posted by Gregory Tappero <co...@gmail.com>.
I dare to say that i agree, it is repelling at first sight.
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, James Fisher <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> I've recently fallen head-over-heels in love with CouchDB. However, this
> (my first) email will probably be at best, constructively critical, and at
> worst, offensive, but:
>
> Does the CouchDB project have any agreed visual brand identity, or is it
> being worked on? I speak mainly of the pages at
> http://couchdb.apache.org/. I'm the kind of person that judges a book
> by its cover, and it took
> consIiderable effort for me to stop my eyes being repelled from that page.
> Compare it, for example, with the simple design at http://www.mongodb.org/ ,
> where many newbies (like me) to document-oriented DBs will be making an
> active comparison.
>
> CouchDB's slogan is "relax", but that web design gets me all agitated.
> There's no room to breathe: logotype squished into a corner, small font,
> subheadings imprisoned in dark green cells. No ample footer telling me I've
> reached the end of the page and where I should go next; just a niggardly
> copyright notice. Rather than relaxing, the guy on the sofa looks like he's
> trying to squirm as far away from the page as possible.
>
> The sofa logo I'm not particularly opposed to, but: entirely saturated
> primary red? That's the universal visual symbol for "PANIC!". I have this
> passage from The Vagina Monologues indelibly imprinted on my memory:
>
> ---
> Then he began to undress me.
>
> "What are you doing, Bob?" I said.
>
> "I need to see you," he replied.
>
> "No need," I said. "Just dive in."
>
> "I need to see what you look like," he said.
>
> "But you've seen a red leather couch before," I said.
> ---
>
> ... blech.
>
> And: who could ever relax on such an angular sofa?
>
> The index page just doesn't sell it. A needless <h1> "The CouchDB Project"
> tells me what I already know from looking at the logotype. The messy design
> schema, which could be a quirky feature (though its appearance on the first
> page is questionable), instead sits awkwardly on top of other headers and
> squashing text out of the way, with an inappropriate yellow background that
> together with the green suggests vomit (oh dear, on my nice new sofa).
> There's no big bold text telling me that I should use CouchDB.
>
> The first paragraph: "Apache CouchDB is a document-oriented database that
> can be queried and indexed in a MapReduce fashion using JavaScript. CouchDB
> also offers incremental replication with bi-directional conflict detection
> and resolution." This jumps into jargon way too soon -- as a prospective
> user, the first thing I want to hear is something simple, comforting, and
> whetting my appetite: "CouchDB is a new kind of database; it will change the
> way you work; come with me, and I will take you on a tour of its secrets."
>
> Next, the colour scheme. Red and dark-half-saturated green (I'm not even
> sure whether that colour has a name)? Under no system of colour theory is
> that an appropriate combination. I suspect it hasn't consciously been
> decided upon as a palette -- the red appears nowhere else.
>
> What's with the needless breadcrumb trail across my entire 2000px-wide
> screen? It might be appropriate for a massive site where getting lost is
> easier than finding anything, but not here where every page is easily listed
> down the left.
>
> And the diagonal pinstripe background -- that's so 2003. Nothing else on
> the site implies that 45 degree angle. Get rid of it.
>
> Futon displays a different scheme: red with shades of grey. The slogan,
> "relax," sits in a different place to the same slogan in the logotype on the
> website. The text sits under, rather than aside, the sofa logo. The
> "contract the sidebar" arrow inexplicably points up rather than to the
> right.
>
> I'm getting into nitty-gritty now, but I hope I've made a point: CouchDB is
> surely losing users by pushing them away with bad design. The main slogan,
> "relax," I really, really like, but it unfortunately doesn't come across
> anywhere. It should. The whole visual design specification should use this
> one word as its starting point.
>
> I don't just want to criticize. Perhaps I can help -- I have no experience
> with Erlang, and I'd be much better suited to PR in this case. AFAICT the
> site is hand-written static HTML/CSS, so a redesign is not a massive
> undertaking.
>
> Opinions?
>
>
>
> James Fisher
>
--
Greg Tappero
CTO co founder Edoboard
http://www.edoboard.com
+33 0645764425