You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Jacob Gorm Hansen <jg...@ioi.dk> on 2003/07/27 11:18:11 UTC
please help me unsubscribing from this list
hi,
I am in Africa on a really poor connection, and somehow my procmail has
stoppped working so I get all the svn mailinmy inbox, Could someone
please unsub paleface@ioi.dk from this list ?
I've tried myself but not easy from here.
THANKS
Jacob
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Michael Wood <mw...@its.uct.ac.za>.
On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 01:18:11PM +0200, Jacob Gorm Hansen wrote:
> hi,
>
> I am in Africa on a really poor connection, and somehow my procmail
Hey! I resent the implication. I'm in Africa too, and my connection
isn't as bad as all that :) (South Africa to be more specific.)
> has stoppped working so I get all the svn mailinmy inbox, Could
> someone please unsub paleface@ioi.dk from this list ?
Your procmail rules have most likely NOT stopped working. The
users@subversion.tigris.org mailing list has just been re-activated and
all the people subscribed to dev@subversion.tigris.org were
automatically subscribed to the users list. This clearly has
downsides...
> I've tried myself but not easy from here.
>
> THANKS
>
> Jacob
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
--
Michael Wood <mw...@its.uct.ac.za>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Zack Brown <zb...@tumblerings.org> writes:
> In the part of my post that you didn't quote, I said migrating to a new
> server is a different case. We're not talking about migrating servers,
> we're talking about creating new lists.
I think that the point that folks are trying to make is that
effectively the "new" users@ list is effectively a list rename (which
has the same effect as a server migration) of the existing dev@ list.
Seriously, yeah, maybe this wasn't the nicest thing to do. And since
several folks appear to be having problems unsubscribing themselves,
it aggravates the offense.
But aren't there more important issues in the world?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Zack Brown <zb...@tumblerings.org>.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 12:14:40PM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 10:56:14AM -0700, Zack Brown wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 11:30:16AM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
> >
> > > In short its a situation without a _perfect_ solution. Either way
> > > it's approached, someone is going to complain.
> >
> > You make it sound like all solutions are equally good/bad. It's not
> > so. Mass subscritpions have serious problems, as we're seeing. The
> > net-cop approach is more respectful and less inconvenient for most
> > people. It's not like these things haven't been tried in the past.
>
> I've personally migrated a list of ~300 subscribers to a new server with
> little problem. In fact I don't recall any outcry from the members
> regarding the move. There were growing pains as with any transition.
> Some of them were used to an old header that the new list did not have.
> I promptly added it for their convenience.
>
> Another project's list that I've been subscribed to has transitioned
> through at least 3 different list servers while I've been following it
> and each transition has been a mass subscription move.
In the part of my post that you didn't quote, I said migrating to a new
server is a different case. We're not talking about migrating servers,
we're talking about creating new lists.
Be well,
Zack
>
> --
> Jamin W. Collins
>
> Remember, root always has a loaded gun. Don't run around with it unless
> you absolutely need it. -- Vineet Kumar
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
--
Zack Brown
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by "Jamin W. Collins" <jc...@asgardsrealm.net>.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 10:56:14AM -0700, Zack Brown wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 11:30:16AM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
>
> > In short its a situation without a _perfect_ solution. Either way
> > it's approached, someone is going to complain.
>
> You make it sound like all solutions are equally good/bad. It's not
> so. Mass subscritpions have serious problems, as we're seeing. The
> net-cop approach is more respectful and less inconvenient for most
> people. It's not like these things haven't been tried in the past.
I've personally migrated a list of ~300 subscribers to a new server with
little problem. In fact I don't recall any outcry from the members
regarding the move. There were growing pains as with any transition.
Some of them were used to an old header that the new list did not have.
I promptly added it for their convenience.
Another project's list that I've been subscribed to has transitioned
through at least 3 different list servers while I've been following it
and each transition has been a mass subscription move.
--
Jamin W. Collins
Remember, root always has a loaded gun. Don't run around with it unless
you absolutely need it. -- Vineet Kumar
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Zack Brown <zb...@tumblerings.org>.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 11:30:16AM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 10:03:45AM -0700, Zack Brown wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 09:26:38AM -0500, kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> >
> > > When the two lists split, to not copy addresses over would therefore
> > > have been the equivalent of *unsubscribing* them from a list they'd
> > > asked to be on, without checking first.
> >
> > Mass subscriptions are just not friendly. You can't make assumptions
> > that people want to join a new list, regardless of the list's subject
> > or purpose. It's like getting spam from people you like and trust.
>
> That's not always true. For instance, what if the list changed servers?
Make a new list at the new server, and then be a net-cop on the old
list. Whenever someone posts to the old list, point them to the new one.
If you don't have that option (the old server dies and is not brought back),
then you hit a corner case and have to make a decision. But that's not the
situation here.
>
> > > Neither option is clearly right, here.
> >
> > I think a better way is to just create a new list, subscribe no one,
> > and then just be a net-cop on the dev list: when someone posts a user
> > question, gently point them to the user list. Ta da!
>
> Then there exists the chance that the user's list would have few people
> there to help the user with his/her question (possibly none).
It would find its own size. And the people who had been paying the most
attention (and would be more likely to answer questions on the new list)
would have known about the list, and subscribed early.
With the size of the dev list, and folks giving pointers to the user list
whenever user questions came up, the user list would have gotten a lot of
subscriptions right away. The inconvenience of being in an empty user list
would have been very very short-lived, and experienced by only very very
few people.
>
> > > And obviously, we didn't know that unsubscription would be broken!
> > > I mean, c'mon... :-)
> >
> > True enough, but even if it had worked, you still dumped a lot of mail
> > into a lot of INBOXes that weren't expecting it. Add it all up, and it
> > was a *huge* inconvenience. Virtually everyone had to clean up their
> > mailboxes, track down the details, and modify their configurations.
>
> And if they had been reading the original list (they were subscribed to
> it after all) they would have known the change was coming and could have
> been prepared for it.
A lot of people just archive the list. But if you wanted to count on
them knowing what was up, you could count on them subscribing themselves
when the time came.
>
> In short its a situation without a _perfect_ solution. Either way it's
> approached, someone is going to complain.
You make it sound like all solutions are equally good/bad. It's not so. Mass
subscritpions have serious problems, as we're seeing. The net-cop approach
is more respectful and less inconvenient for most people. It's not like
these things haven't been tried in the past.
Bah. It's over now. We're just arguing over principle at this point. But at
least this debate will go "on the record" for other projects that consider
mass subscriptions (as we speak, Tom Lord is thinking about doing it for
arch when he migrates to Savannah in the near future).
Be well,
Zack
>
> --
> Jamin W. Collins
>
> This is the typical unix way of doing things: you string together lots
> of very specific tools to accomplish larger tasks. -- Vineet Kumar
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
--
Zack Brown
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by "Jamin W. Collins" <jc...@asgardsrealm.net>.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 10:03:45AM -0700, Zack Brown wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 09:26:38AM -0500, kfogel@collab.net wrote:
>
> > When the two lists split, to not copy addresses over would therefore
> > have been the equivalent of *unsubscribing* them from a list they'd
> > asked to be on, without checking first.
>
> Mass subscriptions are just not friendly. You can't make assumptions
> that people want to join a new list, regardless of the list's subject
> or purpose. It's like getting spam from people you like and trust.
That's not always true. For instance, what if the list changed servers?
> > Neither option is clearly right, here.
>
> I think a better way is to just create a new list, subscribe no one,
> and then just be a net-cop on the dev list: when someone posts a user
> question, gently point them to the user list. Ta da!
Then there exists the chance that the user's list would have few people
there to help the user with his/her question (possibly none).
> > And obviously, we didn't know that unsubscription would be broken!
> > I mean, c'mon... :-)
>
> True enough, but even if it had worked, you still dumped a lot of mail
> into a lot of INBOXes that weren't expecting it. Add it all up, and it
> was a *huge* inconvenience. Virtually everyone had to clean up their
> mailboxes, track down the details, and modify their configurations.
And if they had been reading the original list (they were subscribed to
it after all) they would have known the change was coming and could have
been prepared for it.
In short its a situation without a _perfect_ solution. Either way it's
approached, someone is going to complain.
--
Jamin W. Collins
This is the typical unix way of doing things: you string together lots
of very specific tools to accomplish larger tasks. -- Vineet Kumar
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Zack Brown <zb...@tumblerings.org>.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 09:26:38AM -0500, kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> Ian MacLean <ia...@ActiveState.com> writes:
> > for some reason the users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org alias is
> > not working for me. I have repeatedly sent mails to it and have had no
> > response. Is there some problem with the mailing list software ? I
> > couldn't see an admin alias on that page so I thought I'd post it
> > here. btw auto-subscribing people to a list they did not ask for is
> > possibly not the best policy, particularly if the unsubscribe option
> > isn't working properly.
>
> I've removed you and David Ascher from the list, as requested.
>
> People did ask to be subscribed to the equivalent of this list, back
> when dev@subversion.tigris.org was both user and dev list.
That's not really true. People subscribed to a particular address, and
configured their systems to behave properly when mail came in for that
list. They didn't subscribe to any old future list that the creators of that
first list think is relevant. Even if the purpose of one list changes,
it's up to the user to decide what to do about it.
> When the
> two lists split, to not copy addresses over would therefore have been
> the equivalent of *unsubscribing* them from a list they'd asked to be
> on, without checking first.
Mass subscriptions are just not friendly. You can't make assumptions
that people want to join a new list, regardless of the list's subject or
purpose. It's like getting spam from people you like and trust.
> Neither option is clearly right, here.
I think a better way is to just create a new list, subscribe no one, and
then just be a net-cop on the dev list: when someone posts a user
question, gently point them to the user list. Ta da!
>
> And obviously, we didn't know that unsubscription would be broken! I
> mean, c'mon... :-)
True enough, but even if it had worked, you still dumped a lot of mail into
a lot of INBOXes that weren't expecting it. Add it all up, and it was a
*huge* inconvenience. Virtually everyone had to clean up their mailboxes,
track down the details, and modify their configurations.
Be well,
Zack
>
> -Karl
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
--
Zack Brown
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Ian MacLean <ia...@ActiveState.com> writes:
> for some reason the users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org alias is
> not working for me. I have repeatedly sent mails to it and have had no
> response. Is there some problem with the mailing list software ? I
> couldn't see an admin alias on that page so I thought I'd post it
> here. btw auto-subscribing people to a list they did not ask for is
> possibly not the best policy, particularly if the unsubscribe option
> isn't working properly.
I've removed you and David Ascher from the list, as requested.
People did ask to be subscribed to the equivalent of this list, back
when dev@subversion.tigris.org was both user and dev list. When the
two lists split, to not copy addresses over would therefore have been
the equivalent of *unsubscribing* them from a list they'd asked to be
on, without checking first. Neither option is clearly right, here.
And obviously, we didn't know that unsubscription would be broken! I
mean, c'mon... :-)
-Karl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Ian MacLean <ia...@ActiveState.com>.
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>Well, I just tested it (subscribing and unsubscribing) from an alternate
>email address, and it works fine. All mails to activestate.com appear to
>be delivered normally. Could it be an antispam setting on your side?
>Either way, the list settings look fine on this end.
>
>
>
You're right on the money. Over zealous antispam software is to blame.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ian
> Brian
>
>On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Ian MacLean wrote:
>
>
>>for some reason the users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org alias is not
>>working for me. I have repeatedly sent mails to it and have had no
>>response. Is there some problem with the mailing list software ? I
>>couldn't see an admin alias on that page so I thought I'd post it here.
>>btw auto-subscribing people to a list they did not ask for is possibly
>>not the best policy, particularly if the unsubscribe option isn't
>>working properly.
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
Well, I just tested it (subscribing and unsubscribing) from an alternate
email address, and it works fine. All mails to activestate.com appear to
be delivered normally. Could it be an antispam setting on your side?
Either way, the list settings look fine on this end.
Brian
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Ian MacLean wrote:
> for some reason the users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org alias is not
> working for me. I have repeatedly sent mails to it and have had no
> response. Is there some problem with the mailing list software ? I
> couldn't see an admin alias on that page so I thought I'd post it here.
> btw auto-subscribing people to a list they did not ask for is possibly
> not the best policy, particularly if the unsubscribe option isn't
> working properly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by David Ascher <da...@ActiveState.com>.
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Ian MacLean wrote:
> for some reason the users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org alias is not
> working for me.
Me either.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Ian MacLean <ia...@ActiveState.com>.
for some reason the users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org alias is not
working for me. I have repeatedly sent mails to it and have had no
response. Is there some problem with the mailing list software ? I
couldn't see an admin alias on that page so I thought I'd post it here.
btw auto-subscribing people to a list they did not ask for is possibly
not the best policy, particularly if the unsubscribe option isn't
working properly.
Ian
>I have removed your address from the list.
>
> Brian
>
>On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Jacob Gorm Hansen wrote:
>
>
>>I am in Africa on a really poor connection, and somehow my procmail has
>>stoppped working so I get all the svn mailinmy inbox, Could someone
>>please unsub paleface@ioi.dk from this list ?
>>
>>I've tried myself but not easy from here.
>>
>>THANKS
>>
>>Jacob
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: please help me unsubscribing from this list
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
I have removed your address from the list.
Brian
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Jacob Gorm Hansen wrote:
> I am in Africa on a really poor connection, and somehow my procmail has
> stoppped working so I get all the svn mailinmy inbox, Could someone
> please unsub paleface@ioi.dk from this list ?
>
> I've tried myself but not easy from here.
>
> THANKS
>
> Jacob
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org