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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> on 2009/04/28 03:45:44 UTC
[sanselan] Next steps
We have voted to accept sanselan as a commons component [1]. Welcome!
We now need to settle the administrative questions raised in [2]:
2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a "fun"
name. Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image, or would it
be ok to have the sub-project called Sanselan, or Commons Sanselan?
My preference would be to adopt a functional name. We used to have this
documented as a policy, but that seems to vanished from the web pages,
so it is possible that we made a conscious decision that I just
personally forgot about to eliminate this policy. If others - most
importantly, the Sanselan community - feel strongly about not changing
the name, I am OK with it. It makes it easier for people to find their
way through our components, however, if their names are descriptive.
Personally, I feel the same way about TLPs, but that is a separate topic.
3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of
Sanselan? For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would
these need to be renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun
name as above)?
My preference would be o.a.c.x, where x is the new functional name.
Repackaging provides an opportunity to revise the name.
I have separately kicked off a vote on private@ (per our custom) on
commitership. Once that closes, we will need volunteers to help with
the svn move and component setup.
Thanks!
Phil
[1] http://markmail.org/message/cwngahpm2aieop6c
[2] http://markmail.org/message/4oum556w4wqubnvm
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 28/04/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have voted to accept sanselan as a commons component [1]. Welcome!
>
> We now need to settle the administrative questions raised in [2]:
>
> 2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a "fun"
> name. Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image, or would it be
> ok to have the sub-project called Sanselan, or Commons Sanselan?
>
> My preference would be to adopt a functional name.
+1 for functional name
-0.9 for Sanselan
BTW in French the name could mean "without enthusiasm" if one ignores
the missing space and acute accent ;-)
As it happens, "Image" means much the same in French as in English.
> We used to have this
> documented as a policy, but that seems to vanished from the web pages, so it
> is possible that we made a conscious decision that I just personally forgot
> about to eliminate this policy. If others - most importantly, the Sanselan
> community - feel strongly about not changing the name, I am OK with it. It
> makes it easier for people to find their way through our components,
> however, if their names are descriptive. Personally, I feel the same way
> about TLPs, but that is a separate topic.
>
> 3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of Sanselan?
> For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would these need to be
> renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun name as above)?
+1 for o.a.c.x
> My preference would be o.a.c.x, where x is the new functional name.
> Repackaging provides an opportunity to revise the name.
>
> I have separately kicked off a vote on private@ (per our custom) on
> commitership. Once that closes, we will need volunteers to help with the
> svn move and component setup.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phil
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/cwngahpm2aieop6c
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/4oum556w4wqubnvm
>
>
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>
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:45 AM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a "fun" name.
> Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image, or would it be ok to
> have the sub-project called Sanselan, or Commons Sanselan?
What for? It would bring only confusion and additional work. Let's spare that.
> 3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of Sanselan?
> For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would these need to be
> renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun name as above)?
This is the case for most of commons components. No sense in treating
Sanselan otherwise.
Jochen
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>.
There are enough projects for which a "fun name" works just fine.
Usually they are bigger though. *shrug* No strong opinion on this one.
I do have a strong opinion on the package name though. Definitely
should live in our package space. After all it's just a right click on
"refactor".
cheers
--
Torsten
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:59, Jörg Schaible <jo...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Gary Gregory wrote at Dienstag, 28. April 2009 08:10:
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Phil Steitz [mailto:phil.steitz@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:46 PM
>>> To: Commons Developers List
>>> Subject: [sanselan] Next steps
>>>
>>> We have voted to accept sanselan as a commons component [1]. Welcome!
>
> Yes, welcome. I have myself some image (resp. imageio) related code sitting
> here and I'll have a close look whether it makes sense to add this also.
>
>>> We now need to settle the administrative questions raised in [2]:
>>>
>>> 2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a "fun"
>>> name. Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image, or would it
>>> be ok to have the sub-project called Sanselan, or Commons Sanselan?
>>
>> +1 for a functional name, Image or other.
>
> +1
>
> Actually, if I have some need of common functionality not part of the JDK,
> my first look is at the Apache commons components. Looking for image
> related code I'd probably never spotted senselan though, simply because I
> expect that the component name matches the covered topic.
>
>>> My preference would be to adopt a functional name. We used to have this
>>> documented as a policy, but that seems to vanished from the web pages,
>>> so it is possible that we made a conscious decision that I just
>>> personally forgot about to eliminate this policy. If others - most
>>> importantly, the Sanselan community - feel strongly about not changing
>>> the name, I am OK with it. It makes it easier for people to find their
>>> way through our components, however, if their names are descriptive.
>>> Personally, I feel the same way about TLPs, but that is a separate topic.
>>>
>>> 3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of
>>> Sanselan? For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would
>>> these need to be renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun
>>> name as above)?
>>>
>>> My preference would be o.a.c.x, where x is the new functional name.
>>> Repackaging provides an opportunity to revise the name.
>>
>> +1, yep, just like all other commons packages.
>
> +1
>
> [snip]
>
> - Jörg
>
>
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RE: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Jörg Schaible <jo...@gmx.de>.
Gary Gregory wrote at Dienstag, 28. April 2009 08:10:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Steitz [mailto:phil.steitz@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:46 PM
>> To: Commons Developers List
>> Subject: [sanselan] Next steps
>>
>> We have voted to accept sanselan as a commons component [1]. Welcome!
Yes, welcome. I have myself some image (resp. imageio) related code sitting
here and I'll have a close look whether it makes sense to add this also.
>> We now need to settle the administrative questions raised in [2]:
>>
>> 2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a "fun"
>> name. Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image, or would it
>> be ok to have the sub-project called Sanselan, or Commons Sanselan?
>
> +1 for a functional name, Image or other.
+1
Actually, if I have some need of common functionality not part of the JDK,
my first look is at the Apache commons components. Looking for image
related code I'd probably never spotted senselan though, simply because I
expect that the component name matches the covered topic.
>> My preference would be to adopt a functional name. We used to have this
>> documented as a policy, but that seems to vanished from the web pages,
>> so it is possible that we made a conscious decision that I just
>> personally forgot about to eliminate this policy. If others - most
>> importantly, the Sanselan community - feel strongly about not changing
>> the name, I am OK with it. It makes it easier for people to find their
>> way through our components, however, if their names are descriptive.
>> Personally, I feel the same way about TLPs, but that is a separate topic.
>>
>> 3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of
>> Sanselan? For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would
>> these need to be renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun
>> name as above)?
>>
>> My preference would be o.a.c.x, where x is the new functional name.
>> Repackaging provides an opportunity to revise the name.
>
> +1, yep, just like all other commons packages.
+1
[snip]
- Jörg
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My concern with Sanselan is that it gets us into the trademark game. I
> like that "Apache Commons Logging" is all about the Apache trademark.
That concern is valid, but it should be sufficient to change the name
Sanselan whenever factual trademark issues are found.
Jochen
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
In order to reduce the number of actors, i'd like to propose to statr
with step 3 (voting Sanselan out of incubatgion). Should reduce the
noise for considerable number of people.
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Charles Matthew Chen
<ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds right to me. Thanks Craig.
>
> Matthew
>
>
> On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
>> Here's my take on graduating Sanselan from incubator to commons.
>>
>> 1. Sanselan has been accepted by Commons.
>> 2. The active committers have been granted write access to the repository.
>>
>> Remaining issues:
>>
>> 1. Deciding on the package name for sanselan at commons.
>> 2. Deciding on the brand name for sanselan.
>> 3. Voting sanselan out of incubation.
>> 4. Migrating the code from incubator/sanselan to commons/proper/sanselan and
>> repackaging everything.
>>
>> Regarding issue 1, the clear preference by the primary contributors to the
>> project is to use org.apache.commons.sanselan.
>>
>> Regarding issue 2, the software will continue to be known as sanselan. So I
>> don't think it much matters whether it's Commons Sanselan or Commons Image -
>> Sanselan. Anyone landing on the commons web page looking for image
>> processing will find it. And anyone using any popular web search engine to
>> look for "java image apache" will find it. So this item is primarily talking
>> about what it's called on its own individual web page in the commons web
>> site.
>>
>> Regarding 3, I think we're ready to vote sanselan out of incubation. I'll
>> start the vote once we're agreed here.
>>
>> Regarding 4, once 3 is done the project committers can easily perform this
>> task.
>>
>> What say you all?
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> On May 18, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>>
>>> So where are we now with moving/graduating Sanselan?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Carsten
>>> --
>>> Carsten Ziegeler
>>> cziegeler@apache.org
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>
>>
>
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Charles Matthew Chen <ch...@gmail.com>.
Sounds right to me. Thanks Craig.
Matthew
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Here's my take on graduating Sanselan from incubator to commons.
>
> 1. Sanselan has been accepted by Commons.
> 2. The active committers have been granted write access to the repository.
>
> Remaining issues:
>
> 1. Deciding on the package name for sanselan at commons.
> 2. Deciding on the brand name for sanselan.
> 3. Voting sanselan out of incubation.
> 4. Migrating the code from incubator/sanselan to commons/proper/sanselan and
> repackaging everything.
>
> Regarding issue 1, the clear preference by the primary contributors to the
> project is to use org.apache.commons.sanselan.
>
> Regarding issue 2, the software will continue to be known as sanselan. So I
> don't think it much matters whether it's Commons Sanselan or Commons Image -
> Sanselan. Anyone landing on the commons web page looking for image
> processing will find it. And anyone using any popular web search engine to
> look for "java image apache" will find it. So this item is primarily talking
> about what it's called on its own individual web page in the commons web
> site.
>
> Regarding 3, I think we're ready to vote sanselan out of incubation. I'll
> start the vote once we're agreed here.
>
> Regarding 4, once 3 is done the project committers can easily perform this
> task.
>
> What say you all?
>
> Craig
>
> On May 18, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> So where are we now with moving/graduating Sanselan?
>>
>> Regards
>> Carsten
>> --
>> Carsten Ziegeler
>> cziegeler@apache.org
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
Sounds good.
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Here's my take on graduating Sanselan from incubator to commons.
>
> 1. Sanselan has been accepted by Commons.
> 2. The active committers have been granted write access to the repository.
>
> Remaining issues:
>
> 1. Deciding on the package name for sanselan at commons.
> 2. Deciding on the brand name for sanselan.
> 3. Voting sanselan out of incubation.
> 4. Migrating the code from incubator/sanselan to commons/proper/sanselan and
> repackaging everything.
>
> Regarding issue 1, the clear preference by the primary contributors to the
> project is to use org.apache.commons.sanselan.
>
> Regarding issue 2, the software will continue to be known as sanselan. So I
> don't think it much matters whether it's Commons Sanselan or Commons Image -
> Sanselan. Anyone landing on the commons web page looking for image
> processing will find it. And anyone using any popular web search engine to
> look for "java image apache" will find it. So this item is primarily talking
> about what it's called on its own individual web page in the commons web
> site.
>
> Regarding 3, I think we're ready to vote sanselan out of incubation. I'll
> start the vote once we're agreed here.
>
> Regarding 4, once 3 is done the project committers can easily perform this
> task.
>
> What say you all?
>
> Craig
>
> On May 18, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> So where are we now with moving/graduating Sanselan?
>>
>> Regards
>> Carsten
>> --
>> Carsten Ziegeler
>> cziegeler@apache.org
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Here's my take on graduating Sanselan from incubator to commons.
1. Sanselan has been accepted by Commons.
2. The active committers have been granted write access to the
repository.
Remaining issues:
1. Deciding on the package name for sanselan at commons.
2. Deciding on the brand name for sanselan.
3. Voting sanselan out of incubation.
4. Migrating the code from incubator/sanselan to commons/proper/
sanselan and repackaging everything.
Regarding issue 1, the clear preference by the primary contributors to
the project is to use org.apache.commons.sanselan.
Regarding issue 2, the software will continue to be known as sanselan.
So I don't think it much matters whether it's Commons Sanselan or
Commons Image - Sanselan. Anyone landing on the commons web page
looking for image processing will find it. And anyone using any
popular web search engine to look for "java image apache" will find
it. So this item is primarily talking about what it's called on its
own individual web page in the commons web site.
Regarding 3, I think we're ready to vote sanselan out of incubation.
I'll start the vote once we're agreed here.
Regarding 4, once 3 is done the project committers can easily perform
this task.
What say you all?
Craig
On May 18, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> So where are we now with moving/graduating Sanselan?
>
> Regards
> Carsten
> --
> Carsten Ziegeler
> cziegeler@apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
So where are we now with moving/graduating Sanselan?
Regards
Carsten
--
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
Both Betwixt and Jelly are on the quiet side of dormant however.
My concern with Sanselan is that it gets us into the trademark game. I
like that "Apache Commons Logging" is all about the Apache trademark.
Still - not enough to cause pain and strife to the users who'll
already be dealing with maven repository changes and package name
changing :)
[good time to get in any backwards incompatible changes btw ;) ]
Hen
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
> I agree that the package name should be changed to o.a.c.x but I'm not
> so happy with changing the name. Sanselan is well-known in the java
> image world, so I would rather keep it.
>
> We already have Betwixt and Jelly, so we have two prominent libs not
> using a functional name.
>
> Carsten
> --
> Carsten Ziegeler
> cziegeler@apache.org
>
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Re: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
I agree that the package name should be changed to o.a.c.x but I'm not
so happy with changing the name. Sanselan is well-known in the java
image world, so I would rather keep it.
We already have Betwixt and Jelly, so we have two prominent libs not
using a functional name.
Carsten
--
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org
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RE: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Gary Gregory <GG...@seagullsoftware.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Steitz [mailto:phil.steitz@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:46 PM
> To: Commons Developers List
> Subject: [sanselan] Next steps
>
> We have voted to accept sanselan as a commons component [1]. Welcome!
>
> We now need to settle the administrative questions raised in [2]:
>
> 2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a "fun"
> name. Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image, or would it
> be ok to have the sub-project called Sanselan, or Commons Sanselan?
+1 for a functional name, Image or other.
> My preference would be to adopt a functional name. We used to have this
> documented as a policy, but that seems to vanished from the web pages,
> so it is possible that we made a conscious decision that I just
> personally forgot about to eliminate this policy. If others - most
> importantly, the Sanselan community - feel strongly about not changing
> the name, I am OK with it. It makes it easier for people to find their
> way through our components, however, if their names are descriptive.
> Personally, I feel the same way about TLPs, but that is a separate topic.
>
> 3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of
> Sanselan? For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would
> these need to be renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun
> name as above)?
>
> My preference would be o.a.c.x, where x is the new functional name.
> Repackaging provides an opportunity to revise the name.
+1, yep, just like all other commons packages.
>
> I have separately kicked off a vote on private@ (per our custom) on
> commitership. Once that closes, we will need volunteers to help with
> the svn move and component setup.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phil
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/cwngahpm2aieop6c
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/4oum556w4wqubnvm
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
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Fwd: [sanselan] Next steps
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
FYI.
Craig
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> Date: April 27, 2009 6:45:44 PM PDT
> To: Commons Developers List <de...@commons.apache.org>
> Subject: [sanselan] Next steps
> Reply-To: Commons Developers List <de...@commons.apache.org>
>
> We have voted to accept sanselan as a commons component [1]. Welcome!
>
> We now need to settle the administrative questions raised in [2]:
>
> 2. Most commons components have a "functional" name instead of a
> "fun" name. Would Sanselan need to be renamed, e.g. Commons Image,
> or would it be ok to have the sub-project called Sanselan, or
> Commons Sanselan?
>
> My preference would be to adopt a functional name. We used to have
> this documented as a policy, but that seems to vanished from the web
> pages, so it is possible that we made a conscious decision that I
> just personally forgot about to eliminate this policy. If others -
> most importantly, the Sanselan community - feel strongly about not
> changing the name, I am OK with it. It makes it easier for people
> to find their way through our components, however, if their names
> are descriptive. Personally, I feel the same way about TLPs, but
> that is a separate topic.
>
> 3. Would any changes be required from the existing packaging of
> Sanselan? For example, packages are named org.apache.sanselan. Would
> these need to be renamed to org.apache.commons.sanselan (or less fun
> name as above)?
>
> My preference would be o.a.c.x, where x is the new functional name.
> Repackaging provides an opportunity to revise the name.
>
> I have separately kicked off a vote on private@ (per our custom) on
> commitership. Once that closes, we will need volunteers to help
> with the svn move and component setup.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phil
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/cwngahpm2aieop6c
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/4oum556w4wqubnvm
>
>
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Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!