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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by cn...@rayc.brevsville.com.au on 2004/02/04 22:44:21 UTC
RE:[OT]Looking for junior Java/Struts developers
ajay,
The best way to demonstrate you skills is to look for an idea and write
something and sell it, you end up as your own boss and you gain the
experience.
You seem to think the no-experience vs employeers want experience issue is
new, but it was the same 15 years or so ago when I started out. You can
sit around and frett about it or just get on with it yourself.
If you want to work for someone else, that is fine, you just need to
work hard and you'll do fine, there are so many lazy programmers out in
the market these days that there is a shortage of dedicated professional
graduates.
Thirdly, move down to Melbourne, the weather is nicer down here:)
Chris
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, ajay wrote:
> when: 2004
> where: sydney
> citizenship: australian
>
> the problem though is that most people here thesedays want some level of
> experience before they are willing to hire you, the trend is a lot towards
> contract/temp jobs.
> the problem ofcourse is where to get that elusive experience, and uni project
> experience doesn't count for anything.
> so you have this cycle where you are looking to get some experience and most
> companies want only experienced personnel.
> and when it comes to tax i believe australia has one of the world's highest tax
> rate, and sydney is way too pricey.
>
> but what i would like to know is whats the scenario outside, like int he
> states, singapore, UK etc. is there a good demand for qualified but
> inexperienced IT graduates. would a move abroad be good?
>
>
> Quoting russo@albany.edu:
>
> > Jiin-Her hits the nail on the head
> > I certainly wouldn't want to make 50K while living in Boston or New York
> > City...
> > Here's the cost of living for Herndon VA
> > http://realestate.yahoo.com/re/neighborhood/search.html?sa=&c=Herndon&s=VA&z=
> >
> > Cost of living (taxes, expenses, insurance, etc...) can change from town
> > to town even. As the add says you need to move to Herndon VA to live on
> > that 50K. ;)
> >
> > -R^3
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jiin-Her Lu wrote:
> >
> > > Depends on when, where, and what is your citizenship. It can be up to $
> > 85000+ in US.
> > >
> > > Jiin-Her Lu
> > > (816) 926-2145
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ajay
> ---------------
> Who Dares Wins
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through IMP: www-mail.usyd.edu.au
>
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>
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RE: [OT]Looking for junior Java/Struts developers
Posted by Andrew Hill <an...@gridnode.com>.
IMHO contributing code to open source projects should also count for
something in terms of experience - especially if its a well known project
like struts. (If your still a student you should have a fair bit of spare
time you could do that in too!). So why not take a look at the open defects
and see if there is anything you can help with. :-)
As for the experience vs no-experience problem, thats confronted graduates
in all disciplines since time immemorial! Just got to keep trying till you
can get your foot in the door somewhere (dont be surprised if you end up in
a completely different area of IT than what you studied!). Once you have
some experience under your belt the number of options available to you
expands tremendously.
As for overseas markets, can't give any advice on the States, but the job
market for programmers here in S'Pore is dead as a dodo (supply exceeds
demand and starting salaries are dropping dramatically). Your probably
better off staying in Sydney. Tax is much lower here though, top marginal
rate is something like 26% when your earning 400k. Pretty good compared to
back in Australia where the top rate is almost 50% and kicks in at about 60k
per year (and they wonder why graduates leave the country and dont come
back). Paid as much tax in a month in Aus as I do in a year here!
-----Original Message-----
From: ajay [mailto:abra9823@mail.usyd.edu.au]
Sent: Thursday, 5 February 2004 09:53
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE:[OT]Looking for junior Java/Struts developers
hi!
thanks for the suggestion. that is pretty much what i had decided to do ie
write something and try and market it.
however i'd beg to differ on the weather.
i dont think cold, grey, wet, clammy, uncertain weather qualifies as good
weather esp compared to the sunny predictable weather down here.
Quoting cnd@rayc.brevsville.com.au:
>
> ajay,
>
> The best way to demonstrate you skills is to look for an idea and write
> something and sell it, you end up as your own boss and you gain the
> experience.
>
> You seem to think the no-experience vs employeers want experience issue is
> new, but it was the same 15 years or so ago when I started out. You can
> sit around and frett about it or just get on with it yourself.
>
> If you want to work for someone else, that is fine, you just need to
> work hard and you'll do fine, there are so many lazy programmers out in
> the market these days that there is a shortage of dedicated professional
> graduates.
>
> Thirdly, move down to Melbourne, the weather is nicer down here:)
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, ajay wrote:
>
> > when: 2004
> > where: sydney
> > citizenship: australian
> >
> > the problem though is that most people here thesedays want some level of
> > experience before they are willing to hire you, the trend is a lot
towards
> > contract/temp jobs.
> > the problem ofcourse is where to get that elusive experience, and uni
> project
> > experience doesn't count for anything.
> > so you have this cycle where you are looking to get some experience and
> most
> > companies want only experienced personnel.
> > and when it comes to tax i believe australia has one of the world's
highest
> tax
> > rate, and sydney is way too pricey.
> >
> > but what i would like to know is whats the scenario outside, like int he
> > states, singapore, UK etc. is there a good demand for qualified but
> > inexperienced IT graduates. would a move abroad be good?
> >
> >
> > Quoting russo@albany.edu:
> >
> > > Jiin-Her hits the nail on the head
> > > I certainly wouldn't want to make 50K while living in Boston or New
> York
> > > City...
> > > Here's the cost of living for Herndon VA
> > >
>
http://realestate.yahoo.com/re/neighborhood/search.html?sa=&c=Herndon&s=VA&z
=
> > >
> > > Cost of living (taxes, expenses, insurance, etc...) can change from
town
> > > to town even. As the add says you need to move to Herndon VA to live
on
> > > that 50K. ;)
> > >
> > > -R^3
> > >
> > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jiin-Her Lu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Depends on when, where, and what is your citizenship. It can be up
to
> $
> > > 85000+ in US.
> > > >
> > > > Jiin-Her Lu
> > > > (816) 926-2145
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ajay
> > ---------------
> > Who Dares Wins
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > This mail sent through IMP: www-mail.usyd.edu.au
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
ajay
---------------
Who Dares Wins
-------------------------------------------------
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RE:[OT]Looking for junior Java/Struts developers
Posted by ajay <ab...@mail.usyd.edu.au>.
hi!
thanks for the suggestion. that is pretty much what i had decided to do ie
write something and try and market it.
however i'd beg to differ on the weather.
i dont think cold, grey, wet, clammy, uncertain weather qualifies as good
weather esp compared to the sunny predictable weather down here.
Quoting cnd@rayc.brevsville.com.au:
>
> ajay,
>
> The best way to demonstrate you skills is to look for an idea and write
> something and sell it, you end up as your own boss and you gain the
> experience.
>
> You seem to think the no-experience vs employeers want experience issue is
> new, but it was the same 15 years or so ago when I started out. You can
> sit around and frett about it or just get on with it yourself.
>
> If you want to work for someone else, that is fine, you just need to
> work hard and you'll do fine, there are so many lazy programmers out in
> the market these days that there is a shortage of dedicated professional
> graduates.
>
> Thirdly, move down to Melbourne, the weather is nicer down here:)
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, ajay wrote:
>
> > when: 2004
> > where: sydney
> > citizenship: australian
> >
> > the problem though is that most people here thesedays want some level of
> > experience before they are willing to hire you, the trend is a lot towards
> > contract/temp jobs.
> > the problem ofcourse is where to get that elusive experience, and uni
> project
> > experience doesn't count for anything.
> > so you have this cycle where you are looking to get some experience and
> most
> > companies want only experienced personnel.
> > and when it comes to tax i believe australia has one of the world's highest
> tax
> > rate, and sydney is way too pricey.
> >
> > but what i would like to know is whats the scenario outside, like int he
> > states, singapore, UK etc. is there a good demand for qualified but
> > inexperienced IT graduates. would a move abroad be good?
> >
> >
> > Quoting russo@albany.edu:
> >
> > > Jiin-Her hits the nail on the head
> > > I certainly wouldn't want to make 50K while living in Boston or New
> York
> > > City...
> > > Here's the cost of living for Herndon VA
> > >
> http://realestate.yahoo.com/re/neighborhood/search.html?sa=&c=Herndon&s=VA&z=
> > >
> > > Cost of living (taxes, expenses, insurance, etc...) can change from town
> > > to town even. As the add says you need to move to Herndon VA to live on
> > > that 50K. ;)
> > >
> > > -R^3
> > >
> > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jiin-Her Lu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Depends on when, where, and what is your citizenship. It can be up to
> $
> > > 85000+ in US.
> > > >
> > > > Jiin-Her Lu
> > > > (816) 926-2145
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ajay
> > ---------------
> > Who Dares Wins
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > This mail sent through IMP: www-mail.usyd.edu.au
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
ajay
---------------
Who Dares Wins
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: www-mail.usyd.edu.au
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