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Posted to dev@velocity.apache.org by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de> on 2002/11/04 14:33:17 UTC
RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support / was not correct (in some way :)
> Things could speed up, if we only use BigDecimal if at
> least one of the Operands is a BigDecimal or BigInteger. For
> the more common case, that both are "normal" Number-types, we
> could use "normal" operations. But to answer the question: I did some
> profiling, that showed that using the BigDecimal would be
> faster when having some amount of BigXXX as operands. But as
> said before it may be likely uncommon to have BigXXX as
> operands so I was wrong with this assumption. So splitting
> the operations up into "uses at least one BigXXX-operand" and
> "uses only 'normal'-types" would
> *really* speed up things. Just wanted to make the first
> proposal as simple as possible, though...
To be continued... Another reason for using BigDecimals was
that I don't have to care about overflows. So if we would implement
the proposal I gave in the upper paragraph, then extra overflow
checking would be needed. I don't know how this would affect
performance... For the first "patch" or "proposal" I would love
to keep it as simple as possible. Implementing all these special
cases for speed could be done later, if the code has been proven
as robust.
Peter
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Nathan Bubna <na...@esha.com>.
Jon said:
> on 2002/11/12 4:11 PM, "Daniel Dekany" <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> > Thus, it is odd to me that this
> > projects has still no active developer team.
>
> Not true at all. There is a difference between active developer team and
an
> open source developer team that has itches to scratch.
true. but i think many would agree that velocity still has room and/or need
for improvement. it's all good and well for the committers if they've got
no itches to scratch, but it seems like there are contributers and users
with itches, and they need committers to help them scratch (by committing
patches or giving feedback on them). if none of the current committers are
willing or able to help the users scratch, perhaps some more committers are
needed?
...
> You are always welcome to fork the project or do what you want with it. We
> are not stopping you from doing that at all.
yes, you may not be stopping anyone from doing that, but there may be other
constraining factors in this regard (employers, losing the support here,
etc.). i think this is not often a feasible or desirable alternative, and
so many just have to settle for what's here or switch to other products with
their own set of drawbacks. i think it's better to work with the users &
contributors to improve things than to just say, "i've got what i want. too
bad for you."
Disclaimer: these comments are primarily meant for those committers who no
longer commit. they are intended to encourage committer activity, not
insult or otherwise malign. author is probably a hypocrite to be harping on
this topic when he doesn't have time to get involved himself. :-)
Nathan Bubna
nathan@esha.com
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/11/12 4:11 PM, "Daniel Dekany" <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> Thus, it is odd to me that this
> projects has still no active developer team.
Not true at all. There is a difference between active developer team and an
open source developer team that has itches to scratch.
> Anybody who knows the reasons of this situation?
Velocity works fine for me. I don't need any more changes to it. My itches
are gone and therefore, my need to commit is not as strong.
If you have itches to scratch, you are encouraged to do so by sending in
patches. That doesn't mean that the patches will be accepted though because
the current developers may not seem the patches as itches they need scratch.
You are always welcome to fork the project or do what you want with it. We
are not stopping you from doing that at all.
-jon
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>.
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 10:49:27 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
> Mhhh... I start to think that this project does not want
> contributions and development. :( Are the core developers
> too busy to proceed in the development process?
[snip]
I agree... this was the situation also when I was here earlier (a few
months ago). Seems that nothing changed. And I also really don't want
to start flamewar, but I have the feeling that this is some kind of
social problem here. There is many smart guy around... and this is a
well-known project with big community. Thus, it is odd to me that this
projects has still no active developer team. Anybody who knows the
reasons of this situation?
[snip]
> ..: Please don't tell me that I should you use another product,
> if I am unhappy with the way the velocity-community handles things.
[snip]
(What another product do you mean? :) Don't afraid, JR's mails are
blocked (according to him), so he can't send mails to the list (well,
unless he writes from another account).)
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Re: velocity dev Was: Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 09:51 PM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
>
> i think the inactivity of late has been mostly due to three causes:
> 1. the current product is working well for most people.
> 2. a lot of the changes people talk about are fairly major and/or
> controversial ones that the current committers don't seem to need
> themselves. this understandably leaves them fairly unmotivated to
> move on
> things.
> 3. geir is rather busy with other things. (geir, correct me if i'm
> wrong
> there, but i believe you said something to that effect a bit back.)
I did get totally hosed. More than I ever had in my life. Last
weekend, I decided that I need a balance, and Velocity was how I would
start to restore that balance, after I reintroduced myself to that
woman who lives with me that documents that I have say is my wife :)
We had a few nice things queued up, and then the universe dumped on me
and ate my Entourage mailbox. That was my life. Yes, I shouldn't use
MSFT products. Yes, I should have backed it up more often (see 'I did
get totally hosed...').
> if you want something to work, documentation always seems a bit
> lacking on
> things around here! there's also the TODO
> (http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/todo.html), but those things have
> been
> there forever and no one seems all that interested in those.
>
I hate the TODO :)
> i think most patches (that don't break backwards compatibility) seem
> to get
> fair consideration. the one exception might be patches concerning
> float/double support (sorry to say), because of how controversial they
> seem
> to be.
>
But we have evolved on that. I don't think that there has been any
opposition to allowing comparison, and we have patches to try it
(resubmit the patches please...)
>
> yeah, progress on this is deserved and desired. and i also think it's
> getting 'bout time to release 1.3.1. it's been out there without
> complaint
> for a while.
>
Will do :)
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RE: velocity dev Was: Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
> but, that doesn't stop me from trying to encourage others to
> step up a bit!
> :-)
>
> i think the inactivity of late has been mostly due to three causes:
> 1. the current product is working well for most people.
But many people mention the same odds in the users list every now
and then. I agree, the majority is quite happy with everything,
though...
> 2. a lot of the changes people talk about are fairly major and/or
> controversial ones that the current committers don't seem to need
> themselves. this understandably leaves them fairly
> unmotivated to move on
> things.
I don't think, that the progress of a project should depend on
"whatever the committers like". This seems strange, especially for a
product with such a big community and so many dependencies (talking
about other products that have integrated velocity).
> 3. geir is rather busy with other things. (geir, correct me
> if i'm wrong
> there, but i believe you said something to that effect a bit back.)
Geir is doing a fine job, in fact he seems to be the only one
responsible for it all (at least it appears so). But a project like
velocity should not be bound to a single person IMHO. The guidelines
for accepting new jakarta-projects explicitly demand a working
community. So, if Geir is really the only one in charge, then there
should be others stepping up.
> so, if you want progress, you'll probably have to do a fair bit of it
> yourself. read these if you haven't already:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/getinvolved.html
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contributing.html
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/roles.html
I read that and I already supposed some patches to jakarta-projects
(tomcat / velocity). In fact this thread was about a patch :)
> i think most patches (that don't break backwards
> compatibility) seem to get
> fair consideration. the one exception might be patches concerning
> float/double support (sorry to say), because of how
> controversial they seem to be.
I thought the controversy has gone away. (i.e. it has been solved)
> regardless, i've found i often need to give gentle reminders
> from time to
> time until a patch gets submitted.
I agree. It is the same on other projects and we should not forget
(I haven't) that this is all volunteer's work here, which I appreciate
a lot!
> on the topic of votes, i have some concern over whether any
> major changes
> are even possible at this point. i only see 10 committers listed for
> velocity, and most of them i haven't seen around in a very long time.
> getting three +1's for big stuff might be a challenge (or
> does geir's vote
> count as three? :)
a minimum of three! :) Voting in a small community really seems to be
not applicable. But with some kind of this you could easily decide
thinks and don't have to discuss it forever. Discussion is alway good,
though.
Peter
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velocity dev Was: Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Nathan Bubna <na...@esha.com>.
Peter said:
> Mhhh... I start to think that this project does not want
> contributions and development. :( Are the core developers
> too busy to proceed in the development process?
i wonder myself...
but, i can certainly sympathize if busyness is the problem.
between school, paid work, and life-in-general i haven't gotten to do any
leisure or volunteer coding in quite a while either. i've always kinda
wanted to get into working velocity general, but i haven't had time and
there's not any coming up in the foreseeable future. so, i can't really
complain...
but, that doesn't stop me from trying to encourage others to step up a bit!
:-)
i think the inactivity of late has been mostly due to three causes:
1. the current product is working well for most people.
2. a lot of the changes people talk about are fairly major and/or
controversial ones that the current committers don't seem to need
themselves. this understandably leaves them fairly unmotivated to move on
things.
3. geir is rather busy with other things. (geir, correct me if i'm wrong
there, but i believe you said something to that effect a bit back.)
so, if you want progress, you'll probably have to do a fair bit of it
yourself. read these if you haven't already:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/getinvolved.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contributing.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/roles.html
if you want something to work, documentation always seems a bit lacking on
things around here! there's also the TODO
(http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/todo.html), but those things have been
there forever and no one seems all that interested in those.
i think most patches (that don't break backwards compatibility) seem to get
fair consideration. the one exception might be patches concerning
float/double support (sorry to say), because of how controversial they seem
to be.
regardless, i've found i often need to give gentle reminders from time to
time until a patch gets submitted. otherwise things seem to get agreement,
put off for a little while, and are then forgotten and lost under the
unceasing flow of email and work. someone really has to take time to
organize votes and summarize results for the list.
on the topic of votes, i have some concern over whether any major changes
are even possible at this point. i only see 10 committers listed for
velocity, and most of them i haven't seen around in a very long time.
getting three +1's for big stuff might be a challenge (or does geir's vote
count as three? :)
...
>We
> had the very good patch from James Taylor with the Map Support,
> which all liked a lot. Why is there no voting process for the
> syntax? And why is there even no discussion anymore?
...
yeah, progress on this is deserved and desired. and i also think it's
getting 'bout time to release 1.3.1. it's been out there without complaint
for a while.
does Velocity even have a roadmap? i think that'd be a really good thing.
the TODO page is all i see and that hardly qualifies as a roadmap. i'd like
to see something that outlines some goals for 1.4 and perhaps a 2.0 (which
might be a place to really dig into the whitespace issue). something like
that might give people a better idea of where things are headed and get them
more involved. hopefully, someday i'll find some time to work on more than
the tools subproject (not that i'm doing much even there lately).
Nathan Bubna
nathan@esha.com
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RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
> > - Implement it as a pluggable service (Configuration via
> > velocity.properties) and rewrite the current handling
> (only Integer)
> > as backwards compatible service.
>
> I'm really against the language semantics being pluggable. We either
> do this or not, is my thinking.
Was my first intention, too. But then we are breaking the
backwards compatibility. No problem, if it is on purpose, like doing
a 2.0 which clearly states that it is not fully backwards compatible.
I think 95% of all templates should work fine though. Only templates
that rely on 5 / 2 = 2 and 6 / 3 = Integer (rare) and other likely
rare conditions will have problems, I think.
To make it pluggable would perhaps break the Simplicity Of
Velocity(tm)
- just to find arguments against myself :) If we could find a descision
to start a 2.0 branch after the 1.3.1 release, then we could play around
with all the things burning under the nails and continue with with 1.x
for bug- and security-fixes. Just my $0.02
Peter
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Re: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Gabriel Sidler <si...@teamup.com>.
See inline...
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, at 09:27 AM, Gabriel Sidler wrote:
>
>> Nobody can blame Geir for this delay. Geir has contributed a lot
>> to this community in the past and it is clear that work has priority
>> over participation in this community.
>>
>> But, we currently have an unhealthy situation in this community.
>> There is a large and active user community, there are many open
>> issues to be addressed and there are many contributions from users.
>> Nevertheless, the entire responsibility to coordinate the project,
>> develop enhancements, document, commit changes, etc. rests on a
>> single active committer.
>
>
> Not true - Dan is here, and you are here, Jon is paying attention, and
> Jason is around.
I have access to jakarta-velocity-tools but not the Velocity core. Jon,
Dan, Jason have done a lot for the project in the past and it's good to
have them around and occasionally jump in but they can't really be
considered active committers. In practice, you are the only active
committer of the Velocity core at the moment.
>
> I realize that I have been bogged, and I apologize for the delay, but
> sometimes this is what happens. I feel very bad about it, and am doing
> anything and everything to fix it.
I really really think that you should not feel sorry for not being able
to do more for Velocity at the moment. Your job and your personal live
have priority. You have done so much for the project in the past and
there probably will be times in the future when you can afford more time
for the project again.
Of course, it is great if you can spend time on the project and I do
appreciate it very much because your knowledge is invaluable to this
community. But, let some people help you.
My motivation for bringing this up is this: I make technology
recommendations for my customers/projects and while I feel confident
about the technolgy I don't feel confident about the fact that so much
relies on one person.
BTW, I am not promoting myself as a committer. I am a user of Velocity
and work on application of Velocity (for example the Velocity/Struts integration)
Therefore, I still propose that a few additional committers are
nominated for the project. From my point of view, the ideal situation
would be that you take the role as a project lead and coordinate
the activities of the project and have a team of committers help
you move the project ahead. So, you role would be similar to the role
a Craig McClanahan has in the Struts community.
BTW, Struts has added a number of committers recently. I think that
all these new people have really grown up to the task and have
integrated very well with the team of committers. If have never seen that
Craig was overvoted on a topic. I think people have much respect for his
work and his opinion. That doesn't mean that there are no disagreements
but issues are resolved in discussion.
I am convinced that it would happen the same way in this community with
you in the role as the project lead.
Gabe Sidler
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Re: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Leos Literak <li...@seznam.cz>.
>> ... mhhh 1.3.1 RC 2 is still the most recent version out.
>
>
> And we got burned with rc1. It was out for a while, and only when about
> to release, we found a major bug.
I was the reporter, but I have already confirmed, that RC2
fixed it. Quite frankly, I confirmed it a week after RC2 was
released. Now I run RC2 for months ..
Leos
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Re: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, at 12:52 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>> And we got burned with rc1. It was out for a while, and only when
>> about to release, we found a major bug.
>
> I remember that situation. But more than half a year with a
> RC2 is a bit - long?
it is long :) I will resolve ASAP.
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RE: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
> On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, at 12:10 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
> >
> > But you are the only one who's actually *doing* something.
>
> That's generous :)
You're welcome. :)
> > I was
> > surprised to find out that there are more people involved
> in velocity
> > since I always only saw you doing things from day one! (I'm using
> > velocity for about an year now). I mean, you are committing patches
> > and you lead all the design discussions. What Gabriel ment IMO was
> > that there should be more people actively doing things.
> >
>
> And I agree. If you keep contributing (for a while), I'd be happy to
> support you as a committer. But seriously - I want to review your
> patches closely, and see how they work. You are helpful on the list,
> and that's great, so now lets see what happens over time.
I didn't intend to promote me as a committer! And I *expect* that
you (and others of course) review my patches closely and that we can
discuss what to improve and how to proceed. In fact that is all I
have been wining about :)
> > But I think you have to agree that the number of *active*
> committers
> > should be 2+.
> >
>
> it is 2+
Ok. Numerical true, AFAICS
> >> So I'm clear : -1
> >>
> >> We have no requirement now, and I see no reason to add
> such a thing.
> >
> > ... mhhh 1.3.1 RC 2 is still the most recent version out.
>
> And we got burned with rc1. It was out for a while, and only when
> about to release, we found a major bug.
I remember that situation. But more than half a year with a
RC2 is a bit - long? I am (was) afraid that velocity could suffer
from the loss of a single person like JAMES did a while ago as
Serge left. The project was down for several months (and the latest
release was a 2.0a or something for quite a long time!). I think there
are others now filling up the space in the JAMES-project. BTW I quit
using JAMES because of the inactivity of the project.
Peter
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Re: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, at 12:10 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>
> But you are the only one who's actually *doing* something.
That's generous :)
> I was
> surprised to find out that there are more people involved in velocity
> since I always only saw you doing things from day one! (I'm using
> velocity
> for about an year now). I mean, you are committing patches and you lead
> all the design discussions. What Gabriel ment IMO was that there should
> be more people actively doing things.
>
And I agree. If you keep contributing (for a while), I'd be happy to
support you as a committer. But seriously - I want to review your
patches closely, and see how they work. You are helpful on the list,
and that's great, so now lets see what happens over time.
>> I realize that I have been bogged, and I apologize for the delay, but
>> sometimes this is what happens. I feel very bad about it,
>> and am doing
>> anything and everything to fix it.
>
> Again, I don't see anybody blaming you for something. It's a
> bad situation when a project many people rely on is stuck due
> to the unavailability of *one* person. So more active developers
> and / or commiters would be required, I think.
>
>> I am -1 on any structural requirement for a number of committers.
>> That's totally artificial.
>
> But I think you have to agree that the number of *active* committers
> should be 2+.
>
it is 2+
>> So I'm clear : -1
>>
>> We have no requirement now, and I see no reason to add such a thing.
>
> ... mhhh 1.3.1 RC 2 is still the most recent version out.
And we got burned with rc1. It was out for a while, and only when
about to release, we found a major bug.
>
>> Peter has been noisy about his patches, and that's good. But
>> still. I
>> would like to see more. I would like to see more active committers,
>> btw.
>
> But I almost lost the interrest in participating because nothing
> seems to happen. And I tend to think that others have the same
> feelings.
>
> Note: No personal insult here!
None taken.
>
> Peter
>
>
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RE: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
> > Nobody can blame Geir for this delay. Geir has contributed a lot to
> > this community in the past and it is clear that work has
> priority over
> > participation in this community.
> >
> > But, we currently have an unhealthy situation in this
> community. There
> > is a large and active user community, there are many open
> issues to be
> > addressed and there are many contributions from users.
> Nevertheless,
> > the entire responsibility to coordinate the project, develop
> > enhancements, document, commit changes, etc. rests on a
> single active
> > committer.
>
> Not true - Dan is here, and you are here, Jon is paying
> attention, and
> Jason is around.
But you are the only one who's actually *doing* something. I was
surprised to find out that there are more people involved in velocity
since I always only saw you doing things from day one! (I'm using
velocity
for about an year now). I mean, you are committing patches and you lead
all the design discussions. What Gabriel ment IMO was that there should
be more people actively doing things.
> I realize that I have been bogged, and I apologize for the delay, but
> sometimes this is what happens. I feel very bad about it,
> and am doing
> anything and everything to fix it.
Again, I don't see anybody blaming you for something. It's a
bad situation when a project many people rely on is stuck due
to the unavailability of *one* person. So more active developers
and / or commiters would be required, I think.
> I am -1 on any structural requirement for a number of committers.
> That's totally artificial.
But I think you have to agree that the number of *active* committers
should be 2+.
> So I'm clear : -1
>
> We have no requirement now, and I see no reason to add such a thing.
... mhhh 1.3.1 RC 2 is still the most recent version out.
> Peter has been noisy about his patches, and that's good. But
> still. I
> would like to see more. I would like to see more active committers,
> btw.
But I almost lost the interrest in participating because nothing
seems to happen. And I tend to think that others have the same
feelings.
Note: No personal insult here!
Peter
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Re: Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, at 09:27 AM, Gabriel Sidler wrote:
> Nobody can blame Geir for this delay. Geir has contributed a lot
> to this community in the past and it is clear that work has priority
> over participation in this community.
>
> But, we currently have an unhealthy situation in this community.
> There is a large and active user community, there are many open
> issues to be addressed and there are many contributions from users.
> Nevertheless, the entire responsibility to coordinate the project,
> develop enhancements, document, commit changes, etc. rests on a
> single active committer.
Not true - Dan is here, and you are here, Jon is paying attention, and
Jason is around.
I realize that I have been bogged, and I apologize for the delay, but
sometimes this is what happens. I feel very bad about it, and am doing
anything and everything to fix it.
> Velocity currently doesn't meet the Jakarta requirement that
> there are at least three active committers for a project to be
> considered to join Jakarta. I think this is a meaningful requirement
> because no large and successful project can be carried by a
> single person alone.
I think you are mistaken here.
>
> I'd like to propose that the number of active committers is
> increased to three to five. I think there are enough candidates
> among the users who have proven through their contributions that
> they would be valuable additions to the team of committers. This
> will ensure that the development will continue in the future at
> at meaningful speed and communicate to current and potential future
> users that Velocity is a solid choice and that it will play a
> role a couple years down the road.
>
> What do others think?
I am -1 on any structural requirement for a number of committers.
That's totally artificial.
So I'm clear : -1
We have no requirement now, and I see no reason to add such a thing.
Peter has been noisy about his patches, and that's good. But still. I
would like to see more. I would like to see more active committers,
btw.
This is the week I suggested, and things are going well, allowing me to
participate at the level people are used to (as we as at the level I am
used to).
> Peter Romianowski wrote:
>
>> Geir,
>> please don't take this personally! Aren't there really no others
>> but you? (I guess then the "Who we are" - page has to be updated :)
>> I hope "More stress than I can deal with now professionally" means
>> that thing are working well in the business (i.e. earning enough
>> money).
>> Peter
>>> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 08:47 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Erm, 10 more days and still no discussion or things...
>>>> So I assume that contribution isn't really wanted in this project.
>>>> This was my second time contributing with no effect and I saw many
>>>> other contributions thrown away or even not discussed anymore.
>>>>
>>> You're right - my fault. More stress than I can deal with now
>>> professionally. If I did things right tonight, next week will be
>>> much easier, and I earned a glob of vel time.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
>>> Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
>>> geirm@adeptra.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:velocity-dev->
>>> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>
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>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
> --
> --
> Gabriel Sidler
> Software Engineer, Eivycom GmbH, Zurich, Switzerland
>
>
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Velocity Commiters - Was: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Gabriel Sidler <si...@teamup.com>.
Nobody can blame Geir for this delay. Geir has contributed a lot
to this community in the past and it is clear that work has priority
over participation in this community.
But, we currently have an unhealthy situation in this community.
There is a large and active user community, there are many open
issues to be addressed and there are many contributions from users.
Nevertheless, the entire responsibility to coordinate the project,
develop enhancements, document, commit changes, etc. rests on a
single active committer.
Velocity currently doesn't meet the Jakarta requirement that
there are at least three active committers for a project to be
considered to join Jakarta. I think this is a meaningful requirement
because no large and successful project can be carried by a
single person alone.
I'd like to propose that the number of active committers is
increased to three to five. I think there are enough candidates
among the users who have proven through their contributions that
they would be valuable additions to the team of committers. This
will ensure that the development will continue in the future at
at meaningful speed and communicate to current and potential future
users that Velocity is a solid choice and that it will play a
role a couple years down the road.
What do others think?
Gabe
Peter Romianowski wrote:
> Geir,
>
> please don't take this personally! Aren't there really no others
> but you? (I guess then the "Who we are" - page has to be updated :)
> I hope "More stress than I can deal with now professionally" means
> that thing are working well in the business (i.e. earning enough
> money).
>
> Peter
>
>
>>On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 08:47 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Erm, 10 more days and still no discussion or things...
>>>So I assume that contribution isn't really wanted in this project.
>>>This was my second time contributing with no effect and I saw many
>>>other contributions thrown away or even not discussed anymore.
>>>
>>You're right - my fault. More stress than I can deal with now
>>professionally. If I did things right tonight, next week
>>will be much
>>easier, and I earned a glob of vel time.
>>
>>--
>>Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
>>Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
>>geirm@adeptra.com
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:velocity-dev-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>
>
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>
>
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Software Engineer, Eivycom GmbH, Zurich, Switzerland
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Monday, November 25, 2002, at 05:04 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
> Geir,
>
> please don't take this personally! Aren't there really no others
> but you? (I guess then the "Who we are" - page has to be updated :)
> I hope "More stress than I can deal with now professionally" means
> that thing are working well in the business (i.e. earning enough
> money).
Things went to an *unimaginable*, unpleasant level for me. It's due to
success of what I am working on, so I can't complain, but I need to
rebalance.
I pine to get back here, and once again, apologize for the delay. It
will be taken care of.
geir
>
> Peter
>
>> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 08:47 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>>
>>> Erm, 10 more days and still no discussion or things...
>>> So I assume that contribution isn't really wanted in this project.
>>> This was my second time contributing with no effect and I saw many
>>> other contributions thrown away or even not discussed anymore.
>>
>> You're right - my fault. More stress than I can deal with now
>> professionally. If I did things right tonight, next week
>> will be much
>> easier, and I earned a glob of vel time.
>>
>> --
>> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
>> Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
>> geirm@adeptra.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> <mailto:velocity-dev-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>> For
>> additional commands,
>> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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>
>
--
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Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
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RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
Geir,
please don't take this personally! Aren't there really no others
but you? (I guess then the "Who we are" - page has to be updated :)
I hope "More stress than I can deal with now professionally" means
that thing are working well in the business (i.e. earning enough
money).
Peter
> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 08:47 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>
> > Erm, 10 more days and still no discussion or things...
> > So I assume that contribution isn't really wanted in this project.
> > This was my second time contributing with no effect and I saw many
> > other contributions thrown away or even not discussed anymore.
>
> You're right - my fault. More stress than I can deal with now
> professionally. If I did things right tonight, next week
> will be much
> easier, and I earned a glob of vel time.
>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
> Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
> geirm@adeptra.com
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:velocity-dev-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 08:47 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
> Erm, 10 more days and still no discussion or things...
> So I assume that contribution isn't really wanted in this
> project. This was my second time contributing with no effect
> and I saw many other contributions thrown away or even not
> discussed anymore.
You're right - my fault. More stress than I can deal with now
professionally. If I did things right tonight, next week will be much
easier, and I earned a glob of vel time.
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
--
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RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
Erm, 10 more days and still no discussion or things...
So I assume that contribution isn't really wanted in this
project. This was my second time contributing with no effect
and I saw many other contributions thrown away or even not
discussed anymore.
Note: No flaming, no JR-style (in fact I do not run another
TemplateEngine :) but I start to think that some points he
criticized are probably true. And it makes me sad.
Sorry,
Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geirm@adeptra.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:04 PM
> To: Velocity Developers List
> Subject: Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 07:58 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > new patches including the comparison and updated / added
> testcases.
> > Before you get confused: Some files which had no header in
> it now say
> > that I was the originator of that file. I do not know who
> created the
> > file, so this should be updated in the event of comitting the patch.
> >
> > If this version works correctly, I would like to do the following
> > enhancements:
> >
> > - Implement it as a pluggable service (Configuration via
> > velocity.properties) and rewrite the current handling
> (only Integer)
> > as backwards compatible service.
>
> I'm really against the language semantics being pluggable. We either
> do this or not, is my thinking.
>
> >
> > - Performance improvements. Removing the general use of BigXXX with
> > some more test on the actual Classes being compared / computed.
> > Including
> > overflow-checking.
> >
> > - (Discussion really needed): decimal literals. Please
> provide pros and
> > cons. The cons are more interessting, though :)
> >
>
> Separate issue :)
>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
> Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
> geirm@adeptra.com
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:velocity-dev-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 07:58 AM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> new patches including the comparison and updated / added testcases.
> Before you get confused: Some files which had no header in it now
> say that I was the originator of that file. I do not know who created
> the file, so this should be updated in the event of comitting the
> patch.
>
> If this version works correctly, I would like to do the following
> enhancements:
>
> - Implement it as a pluggable service (Configuration via
> velocity.properties) and rewrite the current handling (only Integer)
> as backwards compatible service.
I'm really against the language semantics being pluggable. We either
do this or not, is my thinking.
>
> - Performance improvements. Removing the general use of BigXXX with
> some more test on the actual Classes being compared / computed.
> Including
> overflow-checking.
>
> - (Discussion really needed): decimal literals. Please provide pros and
> cons. The cons are more interessting, though :)
>
Separate issue :)
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
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RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
Hi,
new patches including the comparison and updated / added testcases.
Before you get confused: Some files which had no header in it now
say that I was the originator of that file. I do not know who created
the file, so this should be updated in the event of comitting the patch.
If this version works correctly, I would like to do the following
enhancements:
- Implement it as a pluggable service (Configuration via
velocity.properties) and rewrite the current handling (only Integer)
as backwards compatible service.
- Performance improvements. Removing the general use of BigXXX with
some more test on the actual Classes being compared / computed.
Including
overflow-checking.
- (Discussion really needed): decimal literals. Please provide pros and
cons. The cons are more interessting, though :)
If this version does not work correctly, I have to do:
- Bugfixes :)
Please play around with it!
Peter
..: The diffs are based on the nightly build from 27.10.2002
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geirm@adeptra.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:03 AM
> To: Velocity Developers List
> Subject: Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 04:49 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>
> > Mhhh... I start to think that this project does not want
> > contributions and development. :( Are the core developers
> too busy to
> > proceed in the development process?
>
> I actually lost my Entourage mailbox last week, and I'm still
> trying to
> catch up on everything that I had queued up. Please resend
> the patch.
> Further, if the patch for the VTL map definition be resubmitted, that
> would be great.
>
> > (Sometimes
> > this reminds me a bit of qmail, which is untouched for years
> > (different reasons, though), but is still heavily used...)
> We had the
> > very good patch from James Taylor with the Map Support, which all
> > liked a lot. Why is there no voting process for the syntax?
> And why is
> > there even no discussion anymore?
>
> Resubmit the patch.
>
> > I also noticed only little response on this proposal.
> James Taylor
> > pointed at some missing points (comparison operators) and
> raised the
> > idea of using some kind of pluggable mathprocessor. But in
> the current
> > environment here, I don't feel like programming on with little
> > feedback and little chance of patches being committed.
> >
>
> resubmit the patch.
>
> > So I ask you kindly: What is the "roadmap" for velocity?
> Where (and
> > when) will it go to? The last "release" never got out
> (1.3.1rc2), for
> > instance...
> >
>
> Yes, that's my fault. I just got hosed. We can release that at any
> time and start thinking about the 1.4, since that has some nice
> additions.
>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
> Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
> geirm@adeptra.com
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:velocity-dev-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
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> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 04:49 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
>
> > Mhhh... I start to think that this project does not want
> > contributions and development. :( Are the core developers
> too busy to
> > proceed in the development process?
>
> I actually lost my Entourage mailbox last week, and I'm still
> trying to
> catch up on everything that I had queued up. Please resend
> the patch.
> Further, if the patch for the VTL map definition be resubmitted, that
> would be great.
I will resubmit the patch including the comparison stuff I forgot
in the first round. This would be a first "working draft" of the
number support, since I would like to implement the stuff as some
kind of "pluggable service" which allows total backwards
compatibility(tm).
After that I will work on better performance, since there could be
some things done.
But you can play around with the current version to see whether some
weird things happen or not. Give me some hours and it will be back
again.
> Yes, that's my fault. I just got hosed. We can release that at any
> time and start thinking about the 1.4, since that has some nice
> additions.
If 1.3.1 is final - then we (you) should release it, so we can (you)
can fully concentrate on 1.4, 2.0 or whatever. (you means the developer
team)
Lucky with the response :),
Peter
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Re: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 04:49 PM, Peter Romianowski wrote:
> Mhhh... I start to think that this project does not want
> contributions and development. :( Are the core developers
> too busy to proceed in the development process?
I actually lost my Entourage mailbox last week, and I'm still trying to
catch up on everything that I had queued up. Please resend the patch.
Further, if the patch for the VTL map definition be resubmitted, that
would be great.
> (Sometimes
> this reminds me a bit of qmail, which is untouched for years
> (different reasons, though), but is still heavily used...) We
> had the very good patch from James Taylor with the Map Support,
> which all liked a lot. Why is there no voting process for the
> syntax? And why is there even no discussion anymore?
Resubmit the patch.
> I also noticed only little response on this proposal. James
> Taylor pointed at some missing points (comparison operators)
> and raised the idea of using some kind of pluggable mathprocessor.
> But in the current environment here, I don't feel like programming
> on with little feedback and little chance of patches being
> committed.
>
resubmit the patch.
> So I ask you kindly: What is the "roadmap" for velocity? Where
> (and when) will it go to? The last "release" never got out
> (1.3.1rc2), for instance...
>
Yes, that's my fault. I just got hosed. We can release that at any
time and start thinking about the 1.4, since that has some nice
additions.
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
--
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RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support
Posted by Peter Romianowski <me...@gmx.de>.
Mhhh... I start to think that this project does not want
contributions and development. :( Are the core developers
too busy to proceed in the development process? (Sometimes
this reminds me a bit of qmail, which is untouched for years
(different reasons, though), but is still heavily used...) We
had the very good patch from James Taylor with the Map Support,
which all liked a lot. Why is there no voting process for the
syntax? And why is there even no discussion anymore?
I also noticed only little response on this proposal. James
Taylor pointed at some missing points (comparison operators)
and raised the idea of using some kind of pluggable mathprocessor.
But in the current environment here, I don't feel like programming
on with little feedback and little chance of patches being
committed.
So I ask you kindly: What is the "roadmap" for velocity? Where
(and when) will it go to? The last "release" never got out
(1.3.1rc2), for instance...
I see threads dealing with development-stuff popping up in
the users-list, where they get discussed heavily for while, but
the dev-list is dead and nothing ever happens...
Please don't get me wrong! I am not interessted in flame wars
and I don't want to point out another great product - but I am
*very* interessted in seeing velocity evolve (And I am willing to
contribute as you can see).
Peter
..: Please don't tell me that I should you use another product,
if I am unhappy with the way the velocity-community handles things.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Romianowski [mailto:megapero@gmx.de]
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 2:33 PM
> To: 'Velocity Developers List'
> Subject: RE: [PATCH / PROPOSAL] number support / was not
> correct (in some way :)
>
>
> > Things could speed up, if we only use BigDecimal if at
> > least one of the Operands is a BigDecimal or BigInteger. For
> > the more common case, that both are "normal" Number-types, we
> > could use "normal" operations. But to answer the question:
> I did some
> > profiling, that showed that using the BigDecimal would be
> > faster when having some amount of BigXXX as operands. But as
> > said before it may be likely uncommon to have BigXXX as
> > operands so I was wrong with this assumption. So splitting
> > the operations up into "uses at least one BigXXX-operand" and
> > "uses only 'normal'-types" would
> > *really* speed up things. Just wanted to make the first
> > proposal as simple as possible, though...
>
> To be continued... Another reason for using BigDecimals was
> that I don't have to care about overflows. So if we would
> implement the proposal I gave in the upper paragraph, then
> extra overflow checking would be needed. I don't know how
> this would affect
> performance... For the first "patch" or "proposal" I would
> love to keep it as simple as possible. Implementing all these
> special cases for speed could be done later, if the code has
> been proven as robust.
>
> Peter
>
>
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