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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Romualdo Rubens de Freitas <ro...@sercomtel.com.br> on 2003/04/12 18:46:48 UTC
Re: What to use for the view.
John,
Do you know Barracuda framework ??? It's a Presentation framework and you
could give it a try. You can reach for it at http://www.barracudamvc.org .
At that site you'll find a good comparison between Barracuda and Struts too
and other good information.
Regards,
Romualdo Rubens de Freitas
mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br
John Bell escreveu:
> We are just about to build a Struts application - should we use JSF for the
> view?
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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>
> .
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Re: What to use for the view.
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <vc...@basebeans.com>.
It's Victor, or Vic.
Best place for this might be on JSF forums:
http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=427
You can look at early posts on JSF, like page 19 . Note: I did send the
closed door JCP an 18 page e-mail listing issues and did hear back from
them. Also, you can read the JSF spec. document, and decide if that is
something you want. I read it cover to cover.
So repost this on JSF if you want to comment more, here is my option
please move any feed back to JSF, and repost this:
- JSF assumes that Java developers do GUI. While they could... would you
want that? A UI person does not know the faces tags, but they do know
input and simple struts tags. Yes, I can write a JSP page but it looks
ugly. You can look at the sample JSF web apps, and consider if your
graphic artists can do that. I have in the past let a GUI person redo
all the JSPs, sometimes they expanded HTML tag into html (input). It
looked great when they were done and Looks count for a lot. Like fields
chaining on mouse over, etc.
- JSF is not open source and you would have to license it for $ form
vendors, else there has to be an open source implementation that you
would have to use.
- Looking at it's complex design, I am guessing that it will be very non
scalable. It does a lot of things server side, that we normally do
client side, in JavaScript. So a scalable Rich GUI should IMO execute a
lot of things browser side. Look at Struts menu, or inteligent tree
controlls, etc.
- PHB's that select JSF are likely to switch to more compete vie .NET:
http://www.windowsforms.net/whitepaper/whywindowsforms.aspx and so many
links on data gird and .NET forms and XML-RPC.
I do not want my clients on .NET. (only because it is more expensive in
operation than open source for large sites).
- Just like EJB, they promised a lot of components, there are none.
People jumped in, and jumped out. You could do JSF, but why?
- The scope of JSF is that it should support non HTML and non http. If
anyone has need for that they should use it. Quote from home page
"without limiting developers to a particular mark-up language, protocol,
or client device." ?? OK, so for people that write the GUI for Browsers
and ... WAP? (I do't have clients that need WAP, or that think same GUI
could work for both. I write MVC so I can replace the view easily)
- The open source future is X:Forms from W3.org IMO, look at
novell.com/xforms or http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/09/05/xforms.html or
http://www.FormsPlayer.com, or IBM, or http://xmlform.org.
I do want to see what the author of Poolman has to say on rich GUI (Sean
Neville), so keep an eye on that.
my 2, refundable.
I advised my clients to wait and see JSF; at lest until there are
interesting componets scalable in production, use JSF version 2.0 after
it does more thinkgs client side on a browser.
If JSF slows down applications, that means more servers to buy (which is
not bad in theory for Sun, except... people just get data grid instead)
I am focusing applications development on JSP 2.0 (tomcat 5/ resin 3)
and EL.
.V
Todd G. Nist wrote:
> Vick,
>
> I would be interested to know what your issues are with using JSF? Is it
> the fact that it is EA release or are there other concerns you have?
>
> Thanks in advance for the info.
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vic Cekvenich [mailto:vc@basebeans.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 2:44 PM
> To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What to use for the view.
>
>
> JSF is not necessarily a good idea or a good practice.
> .V
>
> Todd G. Nist wrote:
>
>>John
>>
>>Have you looked at the following post by Craig R. McClanahan from
>
> 3/6/2003.
>
>>
>>
>>I'm happy to announce the immediate availability of an integration library
>>that allows you to use the recently published EA3 release of JavaServer
>>Faces <http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/> with a recent Struts
>>build (nightly build 20030216 or later, or the upcoming 1.1-rc2 or final
>>release). Nightly builds of this package are available at:
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces/
>>
>>The sources for this package are in the "contrib/struts-faces"
>>subdirectory of the "jakarta-struts" CVS repository.
>>
>>You should take note of the following important points:
>>
>>* The design goal of this library was to allow Struts application
>> developers to migrate the view tier of their applications from the
>> existing Struts tags, to pages that use corresponding JavaServer Faces
>> component tags, with no changes to the corresponding business logic.
>> This goal has been substantially achieved for simple applications
>> so far; additional work will be necessary for more advanced apps.
>> As a proof of concept, the JavaServer Faces based version of the
>> canonical "struts-example" web application is included in the
>> distribution, so that you can see for yourself how little had to be
>> changed.
>>
>>* The integration library has been tested under Tomcat 4.1.18 and
>> the Java Web Services Developer Pack (version 1.0_01), although in
>> principle it should run on any Servlet 2.3/JSP 1.2 container.
>> (It will not run on Servlet 2.2/JSP 1.1 containers).
>>
>>* There is a known issue when trying to run JavaServer Faces EA3
>> under the recently released Java Web Services Developer Pack
>> (version 1.1). Watch the JavaServer Faces web page (at the URL
>> listed above) for up-to-date information on workarounds.
>>
>>* The JavaServer Faces distribution is an EA release, not suitable for
>> use in production environments. In addition, the license terms
>> under which it can be downloaded prohibit redistribution. Therefore,
>> you will need to download your own copy of JavaServer Faces EA3 and
>> integrate it with the example application before it can be deployed.
>>
>>* The integration library should also be considered to be of alpha
>> quality, not suitable for production use. There are a set of known
>> issues and limitations at the bottom of the README.txt file. Please
>> file bugs against this package in the usual Bugzilla location:
>>
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
>>
>>* For generic questions about JavaServer Faces (i.e. not related to this
>> integration library), your best resource is the JavaServer Faces forum
>> (free registration required) at:
>>
>> http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=427
>>
>>See the README.txt file in the top-level subdirectory for more information
>>about installing and using this release.
>>
>>Craig McClanahan
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Romualdo Rubens de Freitas [mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br]
>>Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:47 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: What to use for the view.
>>
>>
>>John,
>>
>>Do you know Barracuda framework ??? It's a Presentation framework and you
>>could give it a try. You can reach for it at http://www.barracudamvc.org .
>>
>>At that site you'll find a good comparison between Barracuda and Struts
>
> too
>
>>and other good information.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Romualdo Rubens de Freitas
>>mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br
>>
>>
>>John Bell escreveu:
>>
>>
>>>We are just about to build a Struts application - should we use JSF for
>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>view?
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: What to use for the view.
Posted by "Todd G. Nist" <tn...@bellsouth.net>.
Vick,
I would be interested to know what your issues are with using JSF? Is it
the fact that it is EA release or are there other concerns you have?
Thanks in advance for the info.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: Vic Cekvenich [mailto:vc@basebeans.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 2:44 PM
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: What to use for the view.
JSF is not necessarily a good idea or a good practice.
.V
Todd G. Nist wrote:
> John
>
> Have you looked at the following post by Craig R. McClanahan from
3/6/2003.
>
>
>
> I'm happy to announce the immediate availability of an integration library
> that allows you to use the recently published EA3 release of JavaServer
> Faces <http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/> with a recent Struts
> build (nightly build 20030216 or later, or the upcoming 1.1-rc2 or final
> release). Nightly builds of this package are available at:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces/
>
> The sources for this package are in the "contrib/struts-faces"
> subdirectory of the "jakarta-struts" CVS repository.
>
> You should take note of the following important points:
>
> * The design goal of this library was to allow Struts application
> developers to migrate the view tier of their applications from the
> existing Struts tags, to pages that use corresponding JavaServer Faces
> component tags, with no changes to the corresponding business logic.
> This goal has been substantially achieved for simple applications
> so far; additional work will be necessary for more advanced apps.
> As a proof of concept, the JavaServer Faces based version of the
> canonical "struts-example" web application is included in the
> distribution, so that you can see for yourself how little had to be
> changed.
>
> * The integration library has been tested under Tomcat 4.1.18 and
> the Java Web Services Developer Pack (version 1.0_01), although in
> principle it should run on any Servlet 2.3/JSP 1.2 container.
> (It will not run on Servlet 2.2/JSP 1.1 containers).
>
> * There is a known issue when trying to run JavaServer Faces EA3
> under the recently released Java Web Services Developer Pack
> (version 1.1). Watch the JavaServer Faces web page (at the URL
> listed above) for up-to-date information on workarounds.
>
> * The JavaServer Faces distribution is an EA release, not suitable for
> use in production environments. In addition, the license terms
> under which it can be downloaded prohibit redistribution. Therefore,
> you will need to download your own copy of JavaServer Faces EA3 and
> integrate it with the example application before it can be deployed.
>
> * The integration library should also be considered to be of alpha
> quality, not suitable for production use. There are a set of known
> issues and limitations at the bottom of the README.txt file. Please
> file bugs against this package in the usual Bugzilla location:
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
>
> * For generic questions about JavaServer Faces (i.e. not related to this
> integration library), your best resource is the JavaServer Faces forum
> (free registration required) at:
>
> http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=427
>
> See the README.txt file in the top-level subdirectory for more information
> about installing and using this release.
>
> Craig McClanahan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Romualdo Rubens de Freitas [mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br]
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:47 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: What to use for the view.
>
>
> John,
>
> Do you know Barracuda framework ??? It's a Presentation framework and you
> could give it a try. You can reach for it at http://www.barracudamvc.org .
>
> At that site you'll find a good comparison between Barracuda and Struts
too
> and other good information.
>
> Regards,
> Romualdo Rubens de Freitas
> mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br
>
>
> John Bell escreveu:
>
>>We are just about to build a Struts application - should we use JSF for
>
> the
>
>>view?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What to use for the view.
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <vc...@basebeans.com>.
JSF is not necessarily a good idea or a good practice.
.V
Todd G. Nist wrote:
> John
>
> Have you looked at the following post by Craig R. McClanahan from 3/6/2003.
>
>
>
> I'm happy to announce the immediate availability of an integration library
> that allows you to use the recently published EA3 release of JavaServer
> Faces <http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/> with a recent Struts
> build (nightly build 20030216 or later, or the upcoming 1.1-rc2 or final
> release). Nightly builds of this package are available at:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces/
>
> The sources for this package are in the "contrib/struts-faces"
> subdirectory of the "jakarta-struts" CVS repository.
>
> You should take note of the following important points:
>
> * The design goal of this library was to allow Struts application
> developers to migrate the view tier of their applications from the
> existing Struts tags, to pages that use corresponding JavaServer Faces
> component tags, with no changes to the corresponding business logic.
> This goal has been substantially achieved for simple applications
> so far; additional work will be necessary for more advanced apps.
> As a proof of concept, the JavaServer Faces based version of the
> canonical "struts-example" web application is included in the
> distribution, so that you can see for yourself how little had to be
> changed.
>
> * The integration library has been tested under Tomcat 4.1.18 and
> the Java Web Services Developer Pack (version 1.0_01), although in
> principle it should run on any Servlet 2.3/JSP 1.2 container.
> (It will not run on Servlet 2.2/JSP 1.1 containers).
>
> * There is a known issue when trying to run JavaServer Faces EA3
> under the recently released Java Web Services Developer Pack
> (version 1.1). Watch the JavaServer Faces web page (at the URL
> listed above) for up-to-date information on workarounds.
>
> * The JavaServer Faces distribution is an EA release, not suitable for
> use in production environments. In addition, the license terms
> under which it can be downloaded prohibit redistribution. Therefore,
> you will need to download your own copy of JavaServer Faces EA3 and
> integrate it with the example application before it can be deployed.
>
> * The integration library should also be considered to be of alpha
> quality, not suitable for production use. There are a set of known
> issues and limitations at the bottom of the README.txt file. Please
> file bugs against this package in the usual Bugzilla location:
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
>
> * For generic questions about JavaServer Faces (i.e. not related to this
> integration library), your best resource is the JavaServer Faces forum
> (free registration required) at:
>
> http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=427
>
> See the README.txt file in the top-level subdirectory for more information
> about installing and using this release.
>
> Craig McClanahan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Romualdo Rubens de Freitas [mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br]
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:47 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: What to use for the view.
>
>
> John,
>
> Do you know Barracuda framework ??? It's a Presentation framework and you
> could give it a try. You can reach for it at http://www.barracudamvc.org .
>
> At that site you'll find a good comparison between Barracuda and Struts too
> and other good information.
>
> Regards,
> Romualdo Rubens de Freitas
> mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br
>
>
> John Bell escreveu:
>
>>We are just about to build a Struts application - should we use JSF for
>
> the
>
>>view?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: What to use for the view.
Posted by "Todd G. Nist" <tn...@bellsouth.net>.
John
Have you looked at the following post by Craig R. McClanahan from 3/6/2003.
I'm happy to announce the immediate availability of an integration library
that allows you to use the recently published EA3 release of JavaServer
Faces <http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/> with a recent Struts
build (nightly build 20030216 or later, or the upcoming 1.1-rc2 or final
release). Nightly builds of this package are available at:
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces/
The sources for this package are in the "contrib/struts-faces"
subdirectory of the "jakarta-struts" CVS repository.
You should take note of the following important points:
* The design goal of this library was to allow Struts application
developers to migrate the view tier of their applications from the
existing Struts tags, to pages that use corresponding JavaServer Faces
component tags, with no changes to the corresponding business logic.
This goal has been substantially achieved for simple applications
so far; additional work will be necessary for more advanced apps.
As a proof of concept, the JavaServer Faces based version of the
canonical "struts-example" web application is included in the
distribution, so that you can see for yourself how little had to be
changed.
* The integration library has been tested under Tomcat 4.1.18 and
the Java Web Services Developer Pack (version 1.0_01), although in
principle it should run on any Servlet 2.3/JSP 1.2 container.
(It will not run on Servlet 2.2/JSP 1.1 containers).
* There is a known issue when trying to run JavaServer Faces EA3
under the recently released Java Web Services Developer Pack
(version 1.1). Watch the JavaServer Faces web page (at the URL
listed above) for up-to-date information on workarounds.
* The JavaServer Faces distribution is an EA release, not suitable for
use in production environments. In addition, the license terms
under which it can be downloaded prohibit redistribution. Therefore,
you will need to download your own copy of JavaServer Faces EA3 and
integrate it with the example application before it can be deployed.
* The integration library should also be considered to be of alpha
quality, not suitable for production use. There are a set of known
issues and limitations at the bottom of the README.txt file. Please
file bugs against this package in the usual Bugzilla location:
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
* For generic questions about JavaServer Faces (i.e. not related to this
integration library), your best resource is the JavaServer Faces forum
(free registration required) at:
http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=427
See the README.txt file in the top-level subdirectory for more information
about installing and using this release.
Craig McClanahan
-----Original Message-----
From: Romualdo Rubens de Freitas [mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:47 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: What to use for the view.
John,
Do you know Barracuda framework ??? It's a Presentation framework and you
could give it a try. You can reach for it at http://www.barracudamvc.org .
At that site you'll find a good comparison between Barracuda and Struts too
and other good information.
Regards,
Romualdo Rubens de Freitas
mailto:romualdo@sercomtel.com.br
John Bell escreveu:
> We are just about to build a Struts application - should we use JSF for
the
> view?
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
> .
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org