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Posted to dev@openmeetings.apache.org by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com> on 2021/10/07 16:29:33 UTC

future of OM frontend

(moving to dev@)

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> +1
>
> In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache Foundation.
> But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
>  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g. maven-rat),
> how will that translate into NPM?
>

The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it uses
I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)

 - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A lot more
> changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even tighter
> governance on making sure licensing is considered
>

We are (semi)manually updating versions
this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(

 - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
> repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM mirror, or are
> we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
>

If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )

>
> There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing themself
> as NPM module:
> https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> as well as
> https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> as well as
> https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
>
> So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more projects
> in the future.
>
> Thanks
> Seb
>
> Sebastian Wagner
> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> >
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> >
>
>
-- 
Best regards,
Maxim

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 03:13, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> If it's just JS + CSS changes you an update the files in a running
> openmeetings server using those scripts:
>
> https://openmeetings.apache.org/BuildInstructions.html#update-javascript-and-css-at-runtime
>
> This will take ~10seconds + refresh the browser. Compared to 2-3 minutes to
> do a rebuild and then restart the server.
>
> However it won't work if you happen to need to update any of the HTML
> files.
>

I prefer to restart
let me do some coffee and think a little bit :)


>
> Thanks
> Seb
>
> Sebastian Wagner
> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> >
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> >
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 04:44, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 at 05:04, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > At my 5-7 years old laptop
> > > > "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> > > > "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
> > >
> > > You are missing that it's not only the build time. You also need to
> > restart
> > > the server. Which is another 1-2mins. And you need to re-login +
> navigate
> > > to the place where you were before. Which depending on the scenario can
> > be
> > > even more complicated.
> > >
> >
> > I'm using "Remember login" option (different browsers - different users)
> > And links for the "area of test" like you can go directly to room
> > via `#room/5` hash
> >
> > The startup time can also be reduced by using
> > `-Djava.security.egd=file:/dev/./urandom`
> >
> > Will try to commit some code and re-check my memories on this :)
> >
> > >
> > > Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> > > > side based web application
> > > > Can you share PoC?
> > >
> > > Will do PR shortly. I wouldn't call it a PWA. It's basically a fancy
> > > bookmark to the home screen. With the ability to have an icon + name +
> > > splash screen + pre-configured browser settings (hide nav bar). Not
> using
> > > any of the other PWA features like offline mode or anything. You can do
> > > that with any website. How much it uses "pwa" features just depends on
> > what
> > > the website provides in the manifest file.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Seb
> > >
> > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > >
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 at 05:23, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 04:49, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is
> > often
> > > > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and
> > produces
> > > > no
> > > > > damage :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Your offtopic sounds more like a rant :)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would say "grumbling"  :))
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > webpack-and-friends, it's output is often unpredictable and hard to
> > > > debug.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > > >
> > > > > => Actually I mostly used webpack just during development. Not when
> > > > > productionising. During development you can use webpack to start a
> > task
> > > > > which enables you to reload the JS+HTML while in a page. E.g. in
> > > > > OpenMeetings changing the HTML takes around 3minutes, cause you
> need
> > to
> > > > > restart the entire server + navigate back to where you were in a
> > > browser.
> > > > > See: https://webpack.js.org/configuration/dev-server/
> > > > >
> > > > > This greatly improves the development cycle, it cuts it down to
> > seconds
> > > > > what previously took minutes.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > At my 5-7 years old laptop
> > > > "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> > > > "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
> > > >
> > > > not too much :)))
> > > > the number can be lower, for whatever reason site is generated even
> if
> > `
> > > > maven.site.skip` is passed :(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > => Unfortunately it won't be possible to integrate this into
> > > OpenMeetings
> > > > > for now. Because it won't work with Apache Wicket.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like you are putting all of those different tools and
> > > > technologies
> > > > > into 1 umbrella/basket. While it's more like each of those has Pro
> > and
> > > > > Cons. Some might be good for OpenMeetings, others maybe not.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a
> server
> > > > side based web application
> > > > Can you share PoC?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > It has nothing to do with breaking things. None of those things
> > should
> > > > > break the application. Neither frontend nor backend technologies
> > should
> > > > > break the application or make it unstable. It has nothing to do
> with
> > > > that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Sebastian
> > > > >
> > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > >
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 03:41, Maxim Solodovnik <
> solomax666@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > > > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party
> > components/libraries
> > > > it
> > > > > > uses
> > > > > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their
> > trees)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Re license checking, we could explore using:
> > > > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> > > > > > > => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful,
> > > especially
> > > > > > once
> > > > > > > more dependencies are added.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +1 to add license check
> > > > > > This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins
> > job
> > > to
> > > > > > save developer's time)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also other build/checks improvements:
> > > > > > > Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a
> > linter:
> > > > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> > > > > > > => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to
> > replace
> > > > > > > whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is
> very
> > > easy
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > set up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
> > > > > > but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like
> all
> > > > those
> > > > > > checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM
> plugins
> > > > > > available
> > > > > > > to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> > > > > > > => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > we had an option to minify CSS files
> > > > > > But to be fair it is very much useless
> > > > > > And the one we were using also did break CSS units
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to
> > make
> > > > sure
> > > > > > CSS
> > > > > > > formatting is good
> > > > > > > => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever
> > ways
> > > > to
> > > > > > > optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is
> > > often
> > > > > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > > > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and
> > > produces
> > > > > no
> > > > > > damage :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> > > > > > > https://jestjs.io/
> > > > > > > => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> > > > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the
> > > topic
> > > > > :(
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact
> > > @infra.
> > > > > At
> > > > > > > the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF
> > > > support
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > Seb
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <
> > > solomax666@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (moving to dev@)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > > > > > seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > +1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the
> > Apache
> > > > > > > > Foundation.
> > > > > > > > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and
> @infra:
> > > > > > > > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven
> > (e.g.
> > > > > > > > maven-rat),
> > > > > > > > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party
> > components/libraries
> > > > it
> > > > > > uses
> > > > > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their
> > trees)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than
> Maven.
> > A
> > > > lot
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean
> even
> > > > > tighter
> > > > > > > > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > > > > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but
> no
> > > NPM
> > > > > > > > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM
> > > > mirror,
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish
> > to?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely
> > > publishing
> > > > > > > > themself
> > > > > > > > > as NPM module:
> > > > > > > > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > > > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > > > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > > > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > > > >
> https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect
> > > more
> > > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > in the future.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > Seb
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > Maxim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Maxim
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Maxim
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Maxim
> >
>


-- 
Best regards,
Maxim

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by "seba.wagner@gmail.com" <se...@gmail.com>.

If it's just JS + CSS changes you an update the files in a running
openmeetings server using those scripts:
https://openmeetings.apache.org/BuildInstructions.html#update-javascript-and-css-at-runtime

This will take ~10seconds + refresh the browser. Compared to 2-3 minutes to
do a rebuild and then restart the server.

However it won't work if you happen to need to update any of the HTML files.

Thanks
Seb

Sebastian Wagner
Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url>
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url>


On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 04:44, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 at 05:04, seba.wagner@gmail.com <seba.wagner@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > At my 5-7 years old laptop
> > > "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> > > "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
> >
> > You are missing that it's not only the build time. You also need to
> restart
> > the server. Which is another 1-2mins. And you need to re-login + navigate
> > to the place where you were before. Which depending on the scenario can
> be
> > even more complicated.
> >
>
> I'm using "Remember login" option (different browsers - different users)
> And links for the "area of test" like you can go directly to room
> via `#room/5` hash
>
> The startup time can also be reduced by using
> `-Djava.security.egd=file:/dev/./urandom`
>
> Will try to commit some code and re-check my memories on this :)
>
> >
> > Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> > > side based web application
> > > Can you share PoC?
> >
> > Will do PR shortly. I wouldn't call it a PWA. It's basically a fancy
> > bookmark to the home screen. With the ability to have an icon + name +
> > splash screen + pre-configured browser settings (hide nav bar). Not using
> > any of the other PWA features like offline mode or anything. You can do
> > that with any website. How much it uses "pwa" features just depends on
> what
> > the website provides in the manifest file.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Seb
> >
> > Sebastian Wagner
> > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > >
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 at 05:23, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 04:49, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is
> often
> > > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and
> produces
> > > no
> > > > damage :)
> > > >
> > > > Your offtopic sounds more like a rant :)
> > > >
> > >
> > > I would say "grumbling"  :))
> > >
> > >
> > > > webpack-and-friends, it's output is often unpredictable and hard to
> > > debug.
> > > > >
> > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > >
> > > > => Actually I mostly used webpack just during development. Not when
> > > > productionising. During development you can use webpack to start a
> task
> > > > which enables you to reload the JS+HTML while in a page. E.g. in
> > > > OpenMeetings changing the HTML takes around 3minutes, cause you need
> to
> > > > restart the entire server + navigate back to where you were in a
> > browser.
> > > > See: https://webpack.js.org/configuration/dev-server/
> > > >
> > > > This greatly improves the development cycle, it cuts it down to
> seconds
> > > > what previously took minutes.
> > > >
> > >
> > > At my 5-7 years old laptop
> > > "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> > > "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
> > >
> > > not too much :)))
> > > the number can be lower, for whatever reason site is generated even if
> `
> > > maven.site.skip` is passed :(
> > >
> > >
> > > > => Unfortunately it won't be possible to integrate this into
> > OpenMeetings
> > > > for now. Because it won't work with Apache Wicket.
> > > >
> > > > It seems like you are putting all of those different tools and
> > > technologies
> > > > into 1 umbrella/basket. While it's more like each of those has Pro
> and
> > > > Cons. Some might be good for OpenMeetings, others maybe not.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> > > side based web application
> > > Can you share PoC?
> > >
> > >
> > > > It has nothing to do with breaking things. None of those things
> should
> > > > break the application. Neither frontend nor backend technologies
> should
> > > > break the application or make it unstable. It has nothing to do with
> > > that.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Sebastian
> > > >
> > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > >
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 03:41, Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party
> components/libraries
> > > it
> > > > > uses
> > > > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their
> trees)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Re license checking, we could explore using:
> > > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> > > > > > => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful,
> > especially
> > > > > once
> > > > > > more dependencies are added.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 to add license check
> > > > > This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins
> job
> > to
> > > > > save developer's time)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also other build/checks improvements:
> > > > > > Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a
> linter:
> > > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> > > > > > => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to
> replace
> > > > > > whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very
> > easy
> > > > to
> > > > > > set up.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
> > > > > but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like all
> > > those
> > > > > checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins
> > > > > available
> > > > > > to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> > > > > > => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > we had an option to minify CSS files
> > > > > But to be fair it is very much useless
> > > > > And the one we were using also did break CSS units
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to
> make
> > > sure
> > > > > CSS
> > > > > > formatting is good
> > > > > > => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever
> ways
> > > to
> > > > > > optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is
> > often
> > > > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and
> > produces
> > > > no
> > > > > damage :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> > > > > > https://jestjs.io/
> > > > > > => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> > > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the
> > topic
> > > > :(
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact
> > @infra.
> > > > At
> > > > > > the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF
> > > support
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Seb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <
> > solomax666@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > (moving to dev@)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > > > > seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > +1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the
> Apache
> > > > > > > Foundation.
> > > > > > > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> > > > > > > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven
> (e.g.
> > > > > > > maven-rat),
> > > > > > > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party
> components/libraries
> > > it
> > > > > uses
> > > > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their
> trees)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven.
> A
> > > lot
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even
> > > > tighter
> > > > > > > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > > > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no
> > NPM
> > > > > > > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM
> > > mirror,
> > > > or
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish
> to?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely
> > publishing
> > > > > > > themself
> > > > > > > > as NPM module:
> > > > > > > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > > > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect
> > more
> > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > in the future.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > Seb
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Maxim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Maxim
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Maxim
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Maxim
>

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 at 05:04, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >
> > At my 5-7 years old laptop
> > "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> > "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
>
> You are missing that it's not only the build time. You also need to restart
> the server. Which is another 1-2mins. And you need to re-login + navigate
> to the place where you were before. Which depending on the scenario can be
> even more complicated.
>

I'm using "Remember login" option (different browsers - different users)
And links for the "area of test" like you can go directly to room
via `#room/5` hash

The startup time can also be reduced by using
`-Djava.security.egd=file:/dev/./urandom`

Will try to commit some code and re-check my memories on this :)

>
> Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> > side based web application
> > Can you share PoC?
>
> Will do PR shortly. I wouldn't call it a PWA. It's basically a fancy
> bookmark to the home screen. With the ability to have an icon + name +
> splash screen + pre-configured browser settings (hide nav bar). Not using
> any of the other PWA features like offline mode or anything. You can do
> that with any website. How much it uses "pwa" features just depends on what
> the website provides in the manifest file.
>
> Thanks,
> Seb
>
> Sebastian Wagner
> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> >
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> >
>
>
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 at 05:23, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 04:49, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
> > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces
> > no
> > > damage :)
> > >
> > > Your offtopic sounds more like a rant :)
> > >
> >
> > I would say "grumbling"  :))
> >
> >
> > > webpack-and-friends, it's output is often unpredictable and hard to
> > debug.
> > > >
> > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > >
> > > => Actually I mostly used webpack just during development. Not when
> > > productionising. During development you can use webpack to start a task
> > > which enables you to reload the JS+HTML while in a page. E.g. in
> > > OpenMeetings changing the HTML takes around 3minutes, cause you need to
> > > restart the entire server + navigate back to where you were in a
> browser.
> > > See: https://webpack.js.org/configuration/dev-server/
> > >
> > > This greatly improves the development cycle, it cuts it down to seconds
> > > what previously took minutes.
> > >
> >
> > At my 5-7 years old laptop
> > "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> > "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
> >
> > not too much :)))
> > the number can be lower, for whatever reason site is generated even if `
> > maven.site.skip` is passed :(
> >
> >
> > > => Unfortunately it won't be possible to integrate this into
> OpenMeetings
> > > for now. Because it won't work with Apache Wicket.
> > >
> > > It seems like you are putting all of those different tools and
> > technologies
> > > into 1 umbrella/basket. While it's more like each of those has Pro and
> > > Cons. Some might be good for OpenMeetings, others maybe not.
> > >
> >
> > Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> > side based web application
> > Can you share PoC?
> >
> >
> > > It has nothing to do with breaking things. None of those things should
> > > break the application. Neither frontend nor backend technologies should
> > > break the application or make it unstable. It has nothing to do with
> > that.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Sebastian
> > >
> > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > >
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 03:41, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries
> > it
> > > > uses
> > > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > > > >
> > > > > Re license checking, we could explore using:
> > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> > > > > => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful,
> especially
> > > > once
> > > > > more dependencies are added.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > +1 to add license check
> > > > This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins job
> to
> > > > save developer's time)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Also other build/checks improvements:
> > > > > Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a linter:
> > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> > > > > => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to replace
> > > > > whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very
> easy
> > > to
> > > > > set up.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
> > > > but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like all
> > those
> > > > checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins
> > > > available
> > > > > to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> > > > > => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > we had an option to minify CSS files
> > > > But to be fair it is very much useless
> > > > And the one we were using also did break CSS units
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to make
> > sure
> > > > CSS
> > > > > formatting is good
> > > > > => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever ways
> > to
> > > > > optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is
> often
> > > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and
> produces
> > > no
> > > > damage :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > >
> > > > > => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> > > > > https://jestjs.io/
> > > > > => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> > > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the
> topic
> > > :(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > >
> > > > > => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact
> @infra.
> > > At
> > > > > the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF
> > support
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Seb
> > > > >
> > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > >
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <
> solomax666@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > (moving to dev@)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > > > seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
> > > > > > Foundation.
> > > > > > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> > > > > > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g.
> > > > > > maven-rat),
> > > > > > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries
> > it
> > > > uses
> > > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A
> > lot
> > > > more
> > > > > > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even
> > > tighter
> > > > > > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no
> NPM
> > > > > > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM
> > mirror,
> > > or
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely
> publishing
> > > > > > themself
> > > > > > > as NPM module:
> > > > > > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect
> more
> > > > > projects
> > > > > > > in the future.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > Seb
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Maxim
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Maxim
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Maxim
> >
>


-- 
Best regards,
Maxim

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by "seba.wagner@gmail.com" <se...@gmail.com>.

>
> At my 5-7 years old laptop
> "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute

You are missing that it's not only the build time. You also need to restart
the server. Which is another 1-2mins. And you need to re-login + navigate
to the place where you were before. Which depending on the scenario can be
even more complicated.

Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> side based web application
> Can you share PoC?

Will do PR shortly. I wouldn't call it a PWA. It's basically a fancy
bookmark to the home screen. With the ability to have an icon + name +
splash screen + pre-configured browser settings (hide nav bar). Not using
any of the other PWA features like offline mode or anything. You can do
that with any website. How much it uses "pwa" features just depends on what
the website provides in the manifest file.

Thanks,
Seb

Sebastian Wagner
Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url>
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url>


On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 at 05:23, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 04:49, seba.wagner@gmail.com <seba.wagner@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
> > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces
> no
> > damage :)
> >
> > Your offtopic sounds more like a rant :)
> >
>
> I would say "grumbling"  :))
>
>
> > webpack-and-friends, it's output is often unpredictable and hard to
> debug.
> > >
> > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> >
> > => Actually I mostly used webpack just during development. Not when
> > productionising. During development you can use webpack to start a task
> > which enables you to reload the JS+HTML while in a page. E.g. in
> > OpenMeetings changing the HTML takes around 3minutes, cause you need to
> > restart the entire server + navigate back to where you were in a browser.
> > See: https://webpack.js.org/configuration/dev-server/
> >
> > This greatly improves the development cycle, it cuts it down to seconds
> > what previously took minutes.
> >
>
> At my 5-7 years old laptop
> "unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
> "quick" build tooks 01:01 minute
>
> not too much :)))
> the number can be lower, for whatever reason site is generated even if `
> maven.site.skip` is passed :(
>
>
> > => Unfortunately it won't be possible to integrate this into OpenMeetings
> > for now. Because it won't work with Apache Wicket.
> >
> > It seems like you are putting all of those different tools and
> technologies
> > into 1 umbrella/basket. While it's more like each of those has Pro and
> > Cons. Some might be good for OpenMeetings, others maybe not.
> >
>
> Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
> side based web application
> Can you share PoC?
>
>
> > It has nothing to do with breaking things. None of those things should
> > break the application. Neither frontend nor backend technologies should
> > break the application or make it unstable. It has nothing to do with
> that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sebastian
> >
> > Sebastian Wagner
> > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > >
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 03:41, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries
> it
> > > uses
> > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > > >
> > > > Re license checking, we could explore using:
> > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> > > > => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful, especially
> > > once
> > > > more dependencies are added.
> > > >
> > >
> > > +1 to add license check
> > > This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins job to
> > > save developer's time)
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Also other build/checks improvements:
> > > > Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a linter:
> > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> > > > => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to replace
> > > > whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very easy
> > to
> > > > set up.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
> > > but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like all
> those
> > > checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )
> > >
> > >
> > > > Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins
> > > available
> > > > to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> > > > => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
> > > >
> > >
> > > we had an option to minify CSS files
> > > But to be fair it is very much useless
> > > And the one we were using also did break CSS units
> > >
> > >
> > > > => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to make
> sure
> > > CSS
> > > > formatting is good
> > > > => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever ways
> to
> > > > optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
> > > >
> > >
> > > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
> > > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces
> > no
> > > damage :)
> > >
> > >
> > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > >
> > > > => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> > > > https://jestjs.io/
> > > > => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> > > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the topic
> > :(
> > >
> > >
> > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > >
> > > > => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact @infra.
> > At
> > > > the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF
> support
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Seb
> > > >
> > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > >
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > (moving to dev@)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > > seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > +1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
> > > > > Foundation.
> > > > > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> > > > > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g.
> > > > > maven-rat),
> > > > > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries
> it
> > > uses
> > > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > > > >
> > > > >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A
> lot
> > > more
> > > > > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even
> > tighter
> > > > > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > > >
> > > > >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
> > > > > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM
> mirror,
> > or
> > > > are
> > > > > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing
> > > > > themself
> > > > > > as NPM module:
> > > > > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > > > > as well as
> > > > > > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more
> > > > projects
> > > > > > in the future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Seb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Maxim
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Maxim
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Maxim
>

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 04:49, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
> unpredictable and hard to debug.
> Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces no
> damage :)
>
> Your offtopic sounds more like a rant :)
>

I would say "grumbling"  :))


> webpack-and-friends, it's output is often unpredictable and hard to debug.
> >
> Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
>
> => Actually I mostly used webpack just during development. Not when
> productionising. During development you can use webpack to start a task
> which enables you to reload the JS+HTML while in a page. E.g. in
> OpenMeetings changing the HTML takes around 3minutes, cause you need to
> restart the entire server + navigate back to where you were in a browser.
> See: https://webpack.js.org/configuration/dev-server/
>
> This greatly improves the development cycle, it cuts it down to seconds
> what previously took minutes.
>

At my 5-7 years old laptop
"unpacked" build tooks 7-9 minutes
"quick" build tooks 01:01 minute

not too much :)))
the number can be lower, for whatever reason site is generated even if `
maven.site.skip` is passed :(


> => Unfortunately it won't be possible to integrate this into OpenMeetings
> for now. Because it won't work with Apache Wicket.
>
> It seems like you are putting all of those different tools and technologies
> into 1 umbrella/basket. While it's more like each of those has Pro and
> Cons. Some might be good for OpenMeetings, others maybe not.
>

Well, I always thought it is impossible to create a PWA out of a server
side based web application
Can you share PoC?


> It has nothing to do with breaking things. None of those things should
> break the application. Neither frontend nor backend technologies should
> break the application or make it unstable. It has nothing to do with that.
>
> Thanks
> Sebastian
>
> Sebastian Wagner
> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> >
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> >
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 03:41, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it
> > uses
> > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > >
> > > Re license checking, we could explore using:
> > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> > > => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful, especially
> > once
> > > more dependencies are added.
> > >
> >
> > +1 to add license check
> > This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins job to
> > save developer's time)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Also other build/checks improvements:
> > > Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a linter:
> > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> > > => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to replace
> > > whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very easy
> to
> > > set up.
> > >
> >
> > I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
> > but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like all those
> > checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )
> >
> >
> > > Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins
> > available
> > > to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> > > => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
> > >
> >
> > we had an option to minify CSS files
> > But to be fair it is very much useless
> > And the one we were using also did break CSS units
> >
> >
> > > => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to make sure
> > CSS
> > > formatting is good
> > > => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever ways to
> > > optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
> > >
> >
> > OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
> > unpredictable and hard to debug.
> > Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> > This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces
> no
> > damage :)
> >
> >
> > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > >
> > > => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> > > https://jestjs.io/
> > > => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> > > https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
> > >
> > >
> > I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the topic
> :(
> >
> >
> > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > >
> > > => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact @infra.
> At
> > > the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF support
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Seb
> > >
> > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > >
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > (moving to dev@)
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > > seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
> > > > Foundation.
> > > > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> > > > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g.
> > > > maven-rat),
> > > > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it
> > uses
> > > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > > >
> > > >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A lot
> > more
> > > > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even
> tighter
> > > > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > > >
> > > >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
> > > > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM mirror,
> or
> > > are
> > > > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing
> > > > themself
> > > > > as NPM module:
> > > > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > > > as well as
> > > > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > > > as well as
> > > > > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > > > >
> > > > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more
> > > projects
> > > > > in the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Seb
> > > > >
> > > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > > >
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Maxim
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Maxim
> >
>


-- 
Best regards,
Maxim

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by "seba.wagner@gmail.com" <se...@gmail.com>.

OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
unpredictable and hard to debug.
Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces no
damage :)

Your offtopic sounds more like a rant :)

webpack-and-friends, it's output is often unpredictable and hard to debug.
>
Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need

=> Actually I mostly used webpack just during development. Not when
productionising. During development you can use webpack to start a task
which enables you to reload the JS+HTML while in a page. E.g. in
OpenMeetings changing the HTML takes around 3minutes, cause you need to
restart the entire server + navigate back to where you were in a browser.
See: https://webpack.js.org/configuration/dev-server/

This greatly improves the development cycle, it cuts it down to seconds
what previously took minutes.

=> Unfortunately it won't be possible to integrate this into OpenMeetings
for now. Because it won't work with Apache Wicket.

It seems like you are putting all of those different tools and technologies
into 1 umbrella/basket. While it's more like each of those has Pro and
Cons. Some might be good for OpenMeetings, others maybe not.

It has nothing to do with breaking things. None of those things should
break the application. Neither frontend nor backend technologies should
break the application or make it unstable. It has nothing to do with that.

Thanks
Sebastian

Sebastian Wagner
Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url>
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url>


On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 03:41, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <seba.wagner@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it
> uses
> > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> >
> > Re license checking, we could explore using:
> > https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> > => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful, especially
> once
> > more dependencies are added.
> >
>
> +1 to add license check
> This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins job to
> save developer's time)
>
>
> >
> > Also other build/checks improvements:
> > Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a linter:
> > https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> > => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to replace
> > whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very easy to
> > set up.
> >
>
> I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
> but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like all those
> checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )
>
>
> > Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins
> available
> > to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> > => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
> >
>
> we had an option to minify CSS files
> But to be fair it is very much useless
> And the one we were using also did break CSS units
>
>
> > => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to make sure
> CSS
> > formatting is good
> > => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever ways to
> > optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
> >
>
> OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
> unpredictable and hard to debug.
> Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
> This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces no
> damage :)
>
>
> > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> >
> > => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> > https://jestjs.io/
> > => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> > https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
> >
> >
> I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the topic :(
>
>
> > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> >
> > => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact @infra. At
> > the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF support
> >
> > Thanks
> > Seb
> >
> > Sebastian Wagner
> > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > >
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > (moving to dev@)
> > >
> > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> > seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
> > > Foundation.
> > > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> > > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g.
> > > maven-rat),
> > > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > > >
> > >
> > > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it
> uses
> > > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> > >
> > >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A lot
> more
> > > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even tighter
> > > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > > >
> > >
> > > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> > >
> > >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
> > > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM mirror, or
> > are
> > > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
> > > >
> > >
> > > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing
> > > themself
> > > > as NPM module:
> > > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > > as well as
> > > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > > as well as
> > > > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > > >
> > > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more
> > projects
> > > > in the future.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Seb
> > > >
> > > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > > >
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Maxim
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Maxim
>

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 03:41, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >
> > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it uses
> > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
>
> Re license checking, we could explore using:
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
> => to automate license checks. That might be quite useful, especially once
> more dependencies are added.
>

+1 to add license check
This can be separate maven profile (maybe event separate Jenkins job to
save developer's time)


>
> Also other build/checks improvements:
> Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a linter:
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
> => To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to replace
> whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very easy to
> set up.
>

I've set up my IDE (and using "show whitespaces" mode)
but let's use "the robot" :)  (I, personally, don't really like all those
checkstyles, they do the job but not flexible enough :( )


> Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins available
> to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
> => NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
>

we had an option to minify CSS files
But to be fair it is very much useless
And the one we were using also did break CSS units


> => This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to make sure CSS
> formatting is good
> => This also has the advantage that you can use further clever ways to
> optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)
>

OFFTOPIC: I don't really like webpack-and-friends, it's output is often
unpredictable and hard to debug.
Additionally I have difficulties to set it up to do what I need
This is why I'm trying to find something that "just works" and produces no
damage :)


> this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
>
> => We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
> https://jestjs.io/
> => And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest
>
>
I saw some tests in other projects, but have no experience in the topic :(


> If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
>
> => Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact @infra. At
> the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF support
>
> Thanks
> Seb
>
> Sebastian Wagner
> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> >
> <
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> >
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > (moving to dev@)
> >
> > On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> seba.wagner@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
> > Foundation.
> > > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> > >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g.
> > maven-rat),
> > > how will that translate into NPM?
> > >
> >
> > The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it uses
> > I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
> >
> >  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A lot more
> > > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even tighter
> > > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> > >
> >
> > We are (semi)manually updating versions
> > this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
> >
> >  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
> > > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM mirror, or
> are
> > > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
> > >
> >
> > If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> > Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
> >
> > >
> > > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing
> > themself
> > > as NPM module:
> > > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > > as well as
> > > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > > as well as
> > > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> > >
> > > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more
> projects
> > > in the future.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Seb
> > >
> > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > > >
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Maxim
> >
>


-- 
Best regards,
Maxim

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by "seba.wagner@gmail.com" <se...@gmail.com>.

>
> The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it uses
> I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)

Re license checking, we could explore using:
https://www.npmjs.com/package/license-checker
=> to automate license checks. That might be quite useful, especially once
more dependencies are added.

Also other build/checks improvements:
Linting JS code - Also what would be good would be to add a linter:
https://www.npmjs.com/package/lint
=> To automate checks for JS formatting. E.g. forgetting to replace
whitespaces with tabs :) A linter can help a lot. And it is very easy to
set up.

Bundling/minify CSS and add linter using NPM: various NPM plugins available
to do it, eg https://www.npmjs.com/package/css-loader
=> NPM can also be used to bundle the CSS files
=> This has also the advantage that you can use the linter to make sure CSS
formatting is good
=> This also has the advantage that you can use further clever ways to
optimise the CSS (https://sass-lang.com/)

this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(

=> We should be able to add JavaScript unit tests using Jest:
https://jestjs.io/
=> And integrate + automate it into our NPM build process
https://www.npmjs.com/package/jest

If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )

=> Let's maybe fix a few of the above and then we can contact @infra. At
the moment I think there is a few things we can do without ASF support

Thanks
Seb

Sebastian Wagner
Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url>
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url>


On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 05:30, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (moving to dev@)
>
> On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
> Foundation.
> > But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
> >  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g.
> maven-rat),
> > how will that translate into NPM?
> >
>
> The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it uses
> I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
>
>  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A lot more
> > changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even tighter
> > governance on making sure licensing is considered
> >
>
> We are (semi)manually updating versions
> this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
>
>  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
> > repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM mirror, or are
> > we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
> >
>
> If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
>
> >
> > There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing
> themself
> > as NPM module:
> > https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
> > as well as
> > https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
> > as well as
> > https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
> >
> > So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more projects
> > in the future.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Seb
> >
> > Sebastian Wagner
> > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
> > >
> > <
> >
> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
> > >
> >
> >
> --
> Best regards,
> Maxim
>

Re: future of OM frontend

Posted by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>.

sorry for double post

Maybe I'll check this tool https://www.snowpack.dev/ for out build
not sure yet if this will be useful or not

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 23:29, Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (moving to dev@)
>
> On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 03:59, seba.wagner@gmail.com <se...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> In the long run I am interested in how NPM fits with the Apache
>> Foundation.
>> But maybe that is something to raise with @legal and @infra:
>>  - Current vetting of licenses is based heavily on maven (e.g. maven-rat),
>> how will that translate into NPM?
>>
>
> The project is responsible for the 3rd party components/libraries it uses
> I try to check the license of JS components (but not their trees)
>
>  - NPM ecosystem is considered a lot more volatile than Maven. A lot more
>> changes in a shorter period of time. Would probably mean even tighter
>> governance on making sure licensing is considered
>>
>
> We are (semi)manually updating versions
> this might be dangerous since we have no frontend tests :(
>
>  - Same for managing dependencies: ASF has a Maven repo, but no NPM
>> repo/mirror. Are there any plans at ASF to establish a NPM mirror, or are
>> we proposing npmjs is what projects should use and publish to?
>>
>
> If I'm not mistaken there was discussion
> Will try to search archives (no ETA unfortunately :(( )
>
>>
>> There is actually an Incubating project that is purely publishing themself
>> as NPM module:
>> https://annotator.apache.org/docs/
>> as well as
>> https://cordova.apache.org/ publishes NPM packages
>> as well as
>> https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/get-started/royale-cli
>>
>> So we are not the very first project using it. But I expect more projects
>> in the future.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Seb
>>
>> Sebastian Wagner
>> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
>> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> <
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> >
>> <
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> >
>>
>>
> --
> Best regards,
> Maxim
>


-- 
Best regards,
Maxim