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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org> on 2009/05/01 11:51:20 UTC
Re: Cocoon and Sling
dynnamitt wrote:
> Out of curiosity :
>
> Why didn't you use XMLCalabash ?
> ( A pure Xproc impl in java )
>
Before any technical analysis of the product, the fact that it is GPL
simply forbids its use in an Apache project.
It also has an "interesting" (not!) feature [1] that collects anonymous
usage data and send it who knows where for who knows what! Beyond
privacy and security concerns, it also leads to some operational
concerns. What happens if the "home" site is down, or if you have a busy
website that floods it? Will it crash your own server?
Sylvain
[1] http://xmlcalabash.com/docs/phonehome.html
--
Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
Re: Cocoon and Sling
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On May 1, 2009, at 4:45 AM, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>> dynnamitt wrote:
>>> Thanks man, I didn't know about that Phone-home feat.
>>>
>>> I did not however see GPL as an issue since the JVM(7) itself soon
>>> becomes a member.
>>> Does this mean that all apache apps will be stuck in JVM6 land ??
>>
>> The GPL is "imposed freedom", in that it states that any derived
>> works of a GPL'ed product should also be GPL licensed itself, and
>> thus that its source code should be distributed with the product.
>>
>> When your product (or Cocoon for that matter) uses classes from
>> XMLCalabash, it becomes a derived product and thus must be GPL'ed.
>> This is why any GPL library is a big no-no at Apache, since the
>> Apache license is much more liberal and allows proprietary usage.
>>
>> The case of the JVM is different, because a Java application is not a
>> derived work of the JVM, and only relies on the Java specification
>> and the .class file format. You can then run your program on any
>> virtual machine that understands this class file format.
>>
>> And by the way, Apache has an Apache-licensed virtual machine:
>> http://harmony.apache.org/
>
> Actually, this isn't quite accurate. Java applications are "derivitive
> works" (by the GPL definition) of the Java Library. However, OpenJDK
> uses GPL with the classpath exception for the library. The classpath
> exception is similar to the LGPL in that it says that your derived
> work can be under a different license. See
> http://freejdk.org/faqs/openjdk_license.html.
Hmm... true, but GPL virality only applies to distribution, i.e. when
you ship in a same package a GPL'ed JDK and an application. When the
end-user installs a Java application in an environment that already has
a JDK, this user is the one doing the assembly, out of the control of
the initial developer.
The JDK APIs specification and the class file format specification
aren't GPL'ed, meaning you can develop a non-GPL'ed application using
any implementation of these specifications, even simple stubs that just
make the compiler happy.
Anyway, the rule of thumb for Dynnamitt is that adding a GPL'ed library
to an Apache project is simply not possible.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
Re: Cocoon and Sling
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
On May 1, 2009, at 4:45 AM, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> dynnamitt wrote:
>> Thanks man, I didn't know about that Phone-home feat.
>>
>> I did not however see GPL as an issue since the JVM(7) itself soon
>> becomes a member.
>> Does this mean that all apache apps will be stuck in JVM6 land ??
>>
>
> The GPL is "imposed freedom", in that it states that any derived
> works of a GPL'ed product should also be GPL licensed itself, and
> thus that its source code should be distributed with the product.
>
> When your product (or Cocoon for that matter) uses classes from
> XMLCalabash, it becomes a derived product and thus must be GPL'ed.
> This is why any GPL library is a big no-no at Apache, since the
> Apache license is much more liberal and allows proprietary usage.
>
> The case of the JVM is different, because a Java application is not
> a derived work of the JVM, and only relies on the Java specification
> and the .class file format. You can then run your program on any
> virtual machine that understands this class file format.
>
> And by the way, Apache has an Apache-licensed virtual machine: http://harmony.apache.org/
>
Actually, this isn't quite accurate. Java applications are "derivitive
works" (by the GPL definition) of the Java Library. However, OpenJDK
uses GPL with the classpath exception for the library. The classpath
exception is similar to the LGPL in that it says that your derived
work can be under a different license. See http://freejdk.org/faqs/openjdk_license.html
.
Ralph
Re: Cocoon and Sling
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
dynnamitt wrote:
> Thanks man, I didn't know about that Phone-home feat.
>
> I did not however see GPL as an issue since the JVM(7) itself soon becomes a member.
> Does this mean that all apache apps will be stuck in JVM6 land ??
>
The GPL is "imposed freedom", in that it states that any derived works
of a GPL'ed product should also be GPL licensed itself, and thus that
its source code should be distributed with the product.
When your product (or Cocoon for that matter) uses classes from
XMLCalabash, it becomes a derived product and thus must be GPL'ed. This
is why any GPL library is a big no-no at Apache, since the Apache
license is much more liberal and allows proprietary usage.
The case of the JVM is different, because a Java application is not a
derived work of the JVM, and only relies on the Java specification and
the .class file format. You can then run your program on any virtual
machine that understands this class file format.
And by the way, Apache has an Apache-licensed virtual machine:
http://harmony.apache.org/
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
Re: Cocoon and Sling
Posted by dynnamitt <kj...@gmail.com>.
Thanks man, I didn't know about that Phone-home feat.
I did not however see GPL as an issue since the JVM(7) itself soon becomes a
member.
Does this mean that all apache apps will be stuck in JVM6 land ??
regards,
dynnamitt.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
> dynnamitt wrote:
>> Out of curiosity :
>>
>> Why didn't you use XMLCalabash ?
>> ( A pure Xproc impl in java )
>>
>
> Before any technical analysis of the product, the fact that it is GPL
> simply forbids its use in an Apache project.
>
> It also has an "interesting" (not!) feature [1] that collects anonymous
> usage data and send it who knows where for who knows what! Beyond
> privacy and security concerns, it also leads to some operational
> concerns. What happens if the "home" site is down, or if you have a busy
> website that floods it? Will it crash your own server?
>
> Sylvain
>
> [1] http://xmlcalabash.com/docs/phonehome.html
>
> --
> Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
>
>
>
--
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Re: Cocoon and Sling
Posted by Juan José Vázquez Delgado <ju...@gmail.com>.
>> Out of curiosity :
>> Why didn't you use XMLCalabash ? ( A pure Xproc impl in java )
>>
>
> Before any technical analysis of the product, the fact that it is GPL simply
> forbids its use in an Apache project.
>
> It also has an "interesting" (not!) feature [1] that collects anonymous
> usage data and send it who knows where for who knows what! Beyond privacy
> and security concerns, it also leads to some operational concerns. What
> happens if the "home" site is down, or if you have a busy website that
> floods it? Will it crash your own server?
On the other hand, It would not be easy to integrate XMLCalabash with
Sling as it is designed. XMLCalabash is intended to work alone and I
don´t find out a natural strategy in order to get both working
together.
BR,
Juanjo.
> [1] http://xmlcalabash.com/docs/phonehome.html