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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Karl Wettin <ka...@apache.org> on 2008/04/15 01:57:23 UTC
IP on algorithmic implemetations
LUCENE-1039 is a Bayesian classifier that use Lucene for data storage
and tokenization of text for various text mining purposes.
The code is based on the Naïve Bayes and Fisher method algorithms as
described by Toby Segaran in "Programming Collective Intelligence",
ISBN 978-0-596-52932-1.
I can't find my copy right now, but the legal part says something like
"you may use the code in this book in you commercial products but you
can not distribute it any way you want, email permissions@oreilly.com".
I've sent multiple mails to them and a week ago I tried with Toby
directly but never got a response from an of them.
However I don't use the code. The book speak Python and Lucene is Java.
There are few similarities in the architecture, mainly due to the fact
they are both implementations of an algorithm this guy in the UK came up
with some 250 years ago.
People have hinted that the only issue is that I have brought it up as a
potential issue.
Do I dare proceed committing this patch to the SVN trunk?
karl
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Re: IP on algorithmic implemetations
Posted by Paul Libbrecht <pa...@activemath.org>.
Karl,
could you revise "250 years ago" and put a hand on the original
article and maybe related patents? I think these are the ones that
can byte the ASF.
Naive Bayes is a fairly well known algorithm which, I think is
implemented in other tools, for example Weka or Yale/RapidMiner (both
are GPL). Have you had a chance to look at their source code and
documentation? There must be pointers there.
Keep up the good work for mining-in-Lucene though! I may be wrong but
I think it is the first BSD-ish licensed set of tools for mining, at
least in Java.
paul
Le 15 avr. 08 à 01:57, Karl Wettin a écrit :
> LUCENE-1039 is a Bayesian classifier that use Lucene for data
> storage and tokenization of text for various text mining purposes.
>
> The code is based on the Naïve Bayes and Fisher method algorithms
> as described by Toby Segaran in "Programming Collective Intelligence",
> ISBN 978-0-596-52932-1.
>
> I can't find my copy right now, but the legal part says something
> like "you may use the code in this book in you commercial products
> but you can not distribute it any way you want, email
> permissions@oreilly.com".
>
> I've sent multiple mails to them and a week ago I tried with Toby
> directly but never got a response from an of them.
>
> However I don't use the code. The book speak Python and Lucene is
> Java. There are few similarities in the architecture, mainly due to
> the fact they are both implementations of an algorithm this guy in
> the UK came up with some 250 years ago.
>
> People have hinted that the only issue is that I have brought it up
> as a potential issue.
>
> Do I dare proceed committing this patch to the SVN trunk?
>
Re: IP on algorithmic implemetations
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Karl Wettin wrote:
> However I don't use the code. The book speak Python and Lucene is Java.
> There are few similarities in the architecture, mainly due to the fact
> they are both implementations of an algorithm this guy in the UK came up
> with some 250 years ago.
A re-implementation to a different programming language may be a
derivative work, depending on how similar it is to the original. If the
original license prohibits commercial use, and the new implementation
has substantial similarities to the original, then the code could not be
used at Apache, since the Apache license permits commercial use.
> Do I dare proceed committing this patch to the SVN trunk?
How similar is it to the original? If it is no more similar than other
implementations of the same algorithms, then there should not be a
problem. But if it shares many elements that are particular to the
original program, that could be a problem.
Doug
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Re: IP on algorithmic implemetations
Posted by Ian Holsman <li...@holsman.net>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Tuesday 15 April 2008 10:51, Ian Holsman wrote:
>
>> someone has
>> mentioned there might be a patent on the algorithm.
>>
>
> I have been told by a Patent Lawyer that algorithms are not patentable, when I
> wanted to patent a search algorithm some 6-7 years ago. Seems there is some
> discrepancy here...
>
>
Hi Niclas.
There was a lot of controversy regarding the GIF file format some years
back due to the compression algorithm it was using (LZW), that was
patented, and unisys (the patent holder) demanding money for it.
(see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Interchange_Format#Unisys_and_LZW_patent_enforcement
)
it's the reason we have PNG's today.
Regards
Ian
ps. that one expired in 2003.
> Cheers
>
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Re: IP on algorithmic implemetations
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tuesday 15 April 2008 10:51, Ian Holsman wrote:
> someone has
> mentioned there might be a patent on the algorithm.
I have been told by a Patent Lawyer that algorithms are not patentable, when I
wanted to patent a search algorithm some 6-7 years ago. Seems there is some
discrepancy here...
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: IP on algorithmic implemetations
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Ian Holsman wrote:
> we have a similar issue on MAHOUT-31
> (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MAHOUT-31 ) where someone has
> mentioned there might be a patent on the algorithm.
They're not actually very similar. One involves copyright and the other
patents. In the case of patents we generally wait for a patent owner to
assert that we've infringed before we worry about this. In the case of
copyright, we are generally pro-active.
Doug
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Re: IP on algorithmic implemetations
Posted by Ian Holsman <li...@holsman.net>.
we have a similar issue on MAHOUT-31
(https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MAHOUT-31 ) where someone has
mentioned there might be a patent on the algorithm.
Karl Wettin wrote:
> LUCENE-1039 is a Bayesian classifier that use Lucene for data storage
> and tokenization of text for various text mining purposes.
>
> The code is based on the Naïve Bayes and Fisher method algorithms as
> described by Toby Segaran in "Programming Collective Intelligence",
> ISBN 978-0-596-52932-1.
>
> I can't find my copy right now, but the legal part says something like
> "you may use the code in this book in you commercial products but you
> can not distribute it any way you want, email permissions@oreilly.com".
>
> I've sent multiple mails to them and a week ago I tried with Toby
> directly but never got a response from an of them.
>
> However I don't use the code. The book speak Python and Lucene is
> Java. There are few similarities in the architecture, mainly due to
> the fact they are both implementations of an algorithm this guy in the
> UK came up with some 250 years ago.
>
> People have hinted that the only issue is that I have brought it up as
> a potential issue.
>
> Do I dare proceed committing this patch to the SVN trunk?
>
>
> karl
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only. Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
> constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> and policies of the ASF. See <http://www.apache.org/licenses/> for
> official ASF policies and documents.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
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DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
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constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
and policies of the ASF. See <http://www.apache.org/licenses/> for
official ASF policies and documents.
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