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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net> on 2013/02/13 17:55:19 UTC
[DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Hey all,
I spent a few minutes updating the information on the Releases page on
the wiki:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Releases
(I was actually hunting for something else)
Do we really need to duplicate all the information that is already on
the main Website here?
IMHO, the wiki should be for developer docs and things that change
quickly, or that require collaborative editing (e.g., weekly newsletter,
or events information). We shouldn't have "static" information on the
wiki that should be on the main Website.
(The Newbie/What is CloudStack? section also strikes me as something
that should be maintained on cloudstack.org, not the wiki.)
Any objections?
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 03:24:08PM -0800, Alex Huang wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
>
> Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
>
> Landing page:
> http://cxf.apache.org/
>
> wiki:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
>
> This has a few benefits:
> - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
> - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
> - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
>
> Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
>
> David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
>
> --Alex
>
I'm +1 if someone wants to take this work on. It won't happen by itself
though. ;-)
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Brockmeier [mailto:jzb@zonker.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:55 AM
> > To: CloudStack Developers
> > Subject: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I spent a few minutes updating the information on the Releases page on
> > the wiki:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Releases
> >
> > (I was actually hunting for something else)
> >
> > Do we really need to duplicate all the information that is already on
> > the main Website here?
> >
> > IMHO, the wiki should be for developer docs and things that change
> > quickly, or that require collaborative editing (e.g., weekly newsletter,
> > or events information). We shouldn't have "static" information on the
> > wiki that should be on the main Website.
> >
> > (The Newbie/What is CloudStack? section also strikes me as something
> > that should be maintained on cloudstack.org, not the wiki.)
> >
> > Any objections?
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > jzb
> > --
> > Joe Brockmeier
> > jzb@zonker.net
> > Twitter: @jzb
> > http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 01:20:37PM -0600, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Alex Huang wrote:
> > Joe,
> >
> > I think the pages for the releases in progress which updates users and
> > developers about the status, bugs, and features of a release in progress
> > should still be relatively high in the tree so people can easily access
> > it. That's information that people don't have access to from the landing
> > page. It doesn't have to be top level though. You decide. As for the
> > current release, we can probably remove it.
>
> Sure - releases in progress definitely belong on the wiki, no question.
> That's fast-moving info that we need to edit almost daily.
>
> I just want to avoid duplicating content and having "stale" information
> in one place or another. So the "finished" releases should live on the
> main site because that information isn't going to change. (e.g., 4.0.0
> will always have been released on 11/6/2012)
>
As long as any meaningful content is appropriately kept (ex: design
docs, test plans, etc...). I think that if the release pages are
limited to release planning and tracking, then we are fine cleaning them
up after a release is completed.
> > Very disappointed that we can't use the html exports. Don't really
> > understand why from reading that page David sent out.
>
> Sorry - the other issue he raised is pretty clear, though: To use the
> wiki as our "official" site, we'd have to lock down contributions to
> committers only, which would be bad on a number of levels.
>
Yup, it is what it is... ;-)
> Thanks for getting back on this quickly!
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> jzb@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Alex Huang wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I think the pages for the releases in progress which updates users and
> developers about the status, bugs, and features of a release in progress
> should still be relatively high in the tree so people can easily access
> it. That's information that people don't have access to from the landing
> page. It doesn't have to be top level though. You decide. As for the
> current release, we can probably remove it.
Sure - releases in progress definitely belong on the wiki, no question.
That's fast-moving info that we need to edit almost daily.
I just want to avoid duplicating content and having "stale" information
in one place or another. So the "finished" releases should live on the
main site because that information isn't going to change. (e.g., 4.0.0
will always have been released on 11/6/2012)
> Very disappointed that we can't use the html exports. Don't really
> understand why from reading that page David sent out.
Sorry - the other issue he raised is pretty clear, though: To use the
wiki as our "official" site, we'd have to lock down contributions to
committers only, which would be bad on a number of levels.
Thanks for getting back on this quickly!
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
RE: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>.
Joe,
I think the pages for the releases in progress which updates users and developers about the status, bugs, and features of a release in progress should still be relatively high in the tree so people can easily access it. That's information that people don't have access to from the landing page. It doesn't have to be top level though. You decide. As for the current release, we can probably remove it.
Very disappointed that we can't use the html exports. Don't really understand why from reading that page David sent out.
--Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chip Childers [mailto:chip.childers@sungard.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 10:32 AM
> To: <cl...@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
>
> On Feb 15, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net> wrote:
>
> > So - now that we've established we aren't going to just export wiki
> > content - do we really need a "releases" page on the wiki when that
> > should be on the main cloudstack.org?
>
> Well, we need a place for the release pages to live. It can be an
> empty page, or have a pointer to the website.
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, at 09:18 AM, David Nalley wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Joe,
> >>>
> >>> I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then
> it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
> >>>
> >>> Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing
> more than dressed up wiki.
> >>>
> >>> Landing page:
> >>> http://cxf.apache.org/
> >>>
> >>> wiki:
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
> >>>
> >>> This has a few benefits:
> >>> - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
> >>> - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the
> end user/cloud operator.
> >>> - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
> >>>
> >>> Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a
> consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is
> similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
> >>>
> >>> David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html
> export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because
> I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow
> for me to get started.)
>
> >>>
> >>> --Alex
> >>
> >>
> >> So while the autoexport will export html to cwiki.a.o, it can not
> >> become the main website (e.g. cs.o or i.a.o/cloudstack)
> >>
> >> See:
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-
> Canweusethemirroroftheautoexportsiteasourmainwebsite%253F
> >>
> >> (and while it says yes, what it really means is..not anymore)
> >>
> >> --David
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > jzb
> > --
> > Joe Brockmeier
> > jzb@zonker.net
> > Twitter: @jzb
> > http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
> >
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Feb 15, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net> wrote:
> So - now that we've established we aren't going to just export wiki
> content - do we really need a "releases" page on the wiki when that
> should be on the main cloudstack.org?
Well, we need a place for the release pages to live. It can be an
empty page, or have a pointer to the website.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, at 09:18 AM, David Nalley wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
>>>
>>> Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
>>>
>>> Landing page:
>>> http://cxf.apache.org/
>>>
>>> wiki:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
>>>
>>> This has a few benefits:
>>> - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
>>> - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
>>> - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
>>>
>>> Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
>>>
>>> David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
>>>
>>> --Alex
>>
>>
>> So while the autoexport will export html to cwiki.a.o, it can not
>> become the main website (e.g. cs.o or i.a.o/cloudstack)
>>
>> See:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Canweusethemirroroftheautoexportsiteasourmainwebsite%253F
>>
>> (and while it says yes, what it really means is..not anymore)
>>
>> --David
>
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> jzb@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
So - now that we've established we aren't going to just export wiki
content - do we really need a "releases" page on the wiki when that
should be on the main cloudstack.org?
Thanks,
Joe
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, at 09:18 AM, David Nalley wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>
> wrote:
> > Joe,
> >
> > I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
> >
> > Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
> >
> > Landing page:
> > http://cxf.apache.org/
> >
> > wiki:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
> >
> > This has a few benefits:
> > - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
> > - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
> > - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
> >
> > Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
> >
> > David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
> >
> > --Alex
>
>
> So while the autoexport will export html to cwiki.a.o, it can not
> become the main website (e.g. cs.o or i.a.o/cloudstack)
>
> See:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Canweusethemirroroftheautoexportsiteasourmainwebsite%253F
>
> (and while it says yes, what it really means is..not anymore)
>
> --David
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Chip Childers
<ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:18:54AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> > Joe,
>> >
>> > I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
>> >
>> > Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
>> >
>> > Landing page:
>> > http://cxf.apache.org/
>> >
>> > wiki:
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
>> >
>> > This has a few benefits:
>> > - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
>> > - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
>> > - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
>> >
>> > Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
>> >
>> > David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
>> >
>> > --Alex
>>
>>
>> So while the autoexport will export html to cwiki.a.o, it can not
>> become the main website (e.g. cs.o or i.a.o/cloudstack)
>>
>> See:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Canweusethemirroroftheautoexportsiteasourmainwebsite%253F
>>
>> (and while it says yes, what it really means is..not anymore)
>>
>> --David
>>
>
> There's that moving target for ASF practices again... ;-)
>
> That's a shame, because I like Alex's proposal.
The other impetus against doing that is that it would require us to
lock down wiki access to committers and folks with a CLA - and having
done that before I can tell you it was a disaster from a participation
stand point
See
https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Ifweusethewikitomaintainprojectdocumentation%252Carethereanyspecialconsiderations%253F
and the question below it.
--David
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:18:54AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com> wrote:
> > Joe,
> >
> > I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
> >
> > Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
> >
> > Landing page:
> > http://cxf.apache.org/
> >
> > wiki:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
> >
> > This has a few benefits:
> > - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
> > - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
> > - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
> >
> > Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
> >
> > David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
> >
> > --Alex
>
>
> So while the autoexport will export html to cwiki.a.o, it can not
> become the main website (e.g. cs.o or i.a.o/cloudstack)
>
> See:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Canweusethemirroroftheautoexportsiteasourmainwebsite%253F
>
> (and while it says yes, what it really means is..not anymore)
>
> --David
>
There's that moving target for ASF practices again... ;-)
That's a shame, because I like Alex's proposal.
Re: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
>
> Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
>
> Landing page:
> http://cxf.apache.org/
>
> wiki:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
>
> This has a few benefits:
> - Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
> - Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
> - End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
>
> Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
>
> David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
>
> --Alex
So while the autoexport will export html to cwiki.a.o, it can not
become the main website (e.g. cs.o or i.a.o/cloudstack)
See:
https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Canweusethemirroroftheautoexportsiteasourmainwebsite%253F
(and while it says yes, what it really means is..not anymore)
--David
RE: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
Posted by Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>.
Joe,
I added those in. IMHO, our wiki should just "export" content and then it gets "styled" up and be put on cloudstack.org.
Take a look at cxf landing page vs the wiki. Their landing page is nothing more than dressed up wiki.
Landing page:
http://cxf.apache.org/
wiki:
https://cwiki.apache.org/CXF/
This has a few benefits:
- Reduces the things we have to keep track of to a minimum.
- Familiar platform for people who want to write things targeted to the end user/cloud operator.
- End user/cloud operator has a natural way to dig deeper.
Our collaborations should happen on the mailing list but once a consensus is achieved someone should write something on the wiki. This is similar to how we're doing the FSes currently.
David has gotten admin privilege to allow us to customize the html export of our wiki. I haven't had any time to look at it though (partly because I can only tinker with it through David since I have no such karma so it's slow for me to get started.)
--Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Brockmeier [mailto:jzb@zonker.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:55 AM
> To: CloudStack Developers
> Subject: [DISCUSS][WIKI] Do we need a top-level Releases page?
>
> Hey all,
>
> I spent a few minutes updating the information on the Releases page on
> the wiki:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Releases
>
> (I was actually hunting for something else)
>
> Do we really need to duplicate all the information that is already on
> the main Website here?
>
> IMHO, the wiki should be for developer docs and things that change
> quickly, or that require collaborative editing (e.g., weekly newsletter,
> or events information). We shouldn't have "static" information on the
> wiki that should be on the main Website.
>
> (The Newbie/What is CloudStack? section also strikes me as something
> that should be maintained on cloudstack.org, not the wiki.)
>
> Any objections?
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> jzb@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/