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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Carlos Araya <ca...@cvc.edu> on 2002/11/21 19:18:55 UTC
Comments on the DTD Deficiencies, a question and an attachment
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Good Morning:
I have a couple questions regarding the DTD and the DTD deficiencies
document and a patch for consideration.
Questions:
What was the need to create 3 separate elements for describing links?
link, jump and fork could just as easily be described with one link
element using attributes to describe what the link does (and it makes
stylesheet authoring easier too IMO)
I've attached a patch that changes the link element adding a role
attribute and removed window and fork.
About "Allow <ol> and <ul> inside <p>"
Please don't!!! That is a stylesheet's nightmare as it creates
recursive calls, especially if you are allowing <p> inside <ol> and
<ul>. It's much cleaner to break the paragraph with the list and then
start a brand new paragraph rather than make the paragraph model
largenr and potentially circular.
Carlos
- - --
Carlos E. Araya
WebCT Administrator - Trainer
California Virtual Campus, Region 1
C/O De Anza College
21250 Stevens Creek Blvd.
Cupertino, CA 95014
(p) 408 257 0482 (f) 408 255 4406
<icq> 5140783 <aim>carlosed1974
web (work): http://www.cvc1.org
web (personal): http://silverwolf-net.net/
Sig:
(7) It is always something
(7a) (corollary). Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two (you can't have all
three).
from RFC 1925: The Twelve Networking Truths
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Re: Comments on the DTD Deficiencies, a question and an attachment
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 09:39:05AM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> ...
>
>>>Lists don't have to be rendered as blocks of indented text. With
>>>appropriate CSS, that paragraph could be rendered in-line as "Forrest is
>>>wonderful because blah.., blah...".
>>
>>The above I like. It's natural and common. IMHO a list is part of a
>>paragraph, not necessarilt a paragraph itself.
>
>
> Then I found (much to my annoyance) that XHTML doesn't allow lists in
> paragraphs ;/ So to generate valid XHTML would require some fancy XSLT.
> At least now that document2html.xsl is shared across skins, it would only
> need to be done once.
Hmmm, this is intersting. Still needs thought then I guess. Really
amusing IMHO.
>>But I don't see a need not particularly like having paragraphs in list
>>elements.
>
>
> I didn't parse that..? In case you mean, you don't see a need for
> multiple paras inside a <li>, here's my original use-case:
It seems more like a table should be used, hence my comment.
But probably I'm wrong, and what should be done is the opposite of what
I said, witness your current comments.
I'm still thinking...
> <faq>
> <question>
> When trying to run a Forrest site as a webapp,
> I get an error: <code>java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
> javax/xml/transform/URIResolver</code>. What's wrong?
> </question>
> <answer>
> <p>
> Either:
> </p>
> <ul>
> <li>
> <p>
> You are running JDK 1.4, and haven't to set the
> <code>java.endorsed.dirs</code> JVM property to point to the XML jars
> bundled with Forrest.
> </p>
> <p>
> For Tomcat, this means setting the <code>TOMCAT_OPTS</code> (3.3.x) or
> <code>CATALINA_OPTS</code> (4.x) variable to
> <code>-Djava.endorsed.dirs=$FORREST_HOME/lib/endorsed</code>, where
> <code>$FORREST_HOME</code> is the location of the forrest distribution
> (<code>build/dist/shbat</code> if built from source).
> </p>
> <p>
> Alternatively, the Forrest XML jars in
> <code>$FORREST_HOME/lib/endorsed</code> can be copied to
> <code>$JAVA_HOME/jre/lib/endorsed</code> (note the <code>jre</code> in
> there!).
> </p>
> </li>
> <li>
> You are running the webapp under JDK 1.3, and the Forrest webapp was
> built with JDK 1.4. When built with 1.4, the XML jars are <em>not</em>
> copied into <code>WEB-INF/lib</code>, causing the webapp to break under
> JDK 1.3.
> </li>
> </ul>
> </answer>
> </faq>
>
>
> --Jeff
>
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Comments on the DTD Deficiencies, a question and an attachment
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 09:39:05AM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
> >Lists don't have to be rendered as blocks of indented text. With
> >appropriate CSS, that paragraph could be rendered in-line as "Forrest is
> >wonderful because blah.., blah...".
>
> The above I like. It's natural and common. IMHO a list is part of a
> paragraph, not necessarilt a paragraph itself.
Then I found (much to my annoyance) that XHTML doesn't allow lists in
paragraphs ;/ So to generate valid XHTML would require some fancy XSLT.
At least now that document2html.xsl is shared across skins, it would only
need to be done once.
> But I don't see a need not particularly like having paragraphs in list
> elements.
I didn't parse that..? In case you mean, you don't see a need for
multiple paras inside a <li>, here's my original use-case:
<faq>
<question>
When trying to run a Forrest site as a webapp,
I get an error: <code>java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
javax/xml/transform/URIResolver</code>. What's wrong?
</question>
<answer>
<p>
Either:
</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>
You are running JDK 1.4, and haven't to set the
<code>java.endorsed.dirs</code> JVM property to point to the XML jars
bundled with Forrest.
</p>
<p>
For Tomcat, this means setting the <code>TOMCAT_OPTS</code> (3.3.x) or
<code>CATALINA_OPTS</code> (4.x) variable to
<code>-Djava.endorsed.dirs=$FORREST_HOME/lib/endorsed</code>, where
<code>$FORREST_HOME</code> is the location of the forrest distribution
(<code>build/dist/shbat</code> if built from source).
</p>
<p>
Alternatively, the Forrest XML jars in
<code>$FORREST_HOME/lib/endorsed</code> can be copied to
<code>$JAVA_HOME/jre/lib/endorsed</code> (note the <code>jre</code> in
there!).
</p>
</li>
<li>
You are running the webapp under JDK 1.3, and the Forrest webapp was
built with JDK 1.4. When built with 1.4, the XML jars are <em>not</em>
copied into <code>WEB-INF/lib</code>, causing the webapp to break under
JDK 1.3.
</li>
</ul>
</answer>
</faq>
--Jeff
> These two things are not in discord and would not create recursive calls.
>
> --
> Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Re: Comments on the DTD Deficiencies, a question and an attachment
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 10:18:55AM -0800, Carlos Araya wrote:
> ...
>
>>About "Allow <ol> and <ul> inside <p>"
>>
>>Please don't!!! That is a stylesheet's nightmare as it creates
>>recursive calls,
>
>
> Yes.. is that a problem? They don't recurse forever.
>
>
>>especially if you are allowing <p> inside <ol> and <ul>. It's much
>>cleaner to break the paragraph with the list and then start a brand new
>>paragraph rather than make the paragraph model largenr and potentially
>>circular.
>
>
> A paragraph is one "thought unit". Frequently a list comprises the
> second half of a sentence (one thought), eg:
>
> <p>
> Forrest is wonderful because
> <ul>
> <li>blah..</li>
> <li>blah..</li>
> </ul>
> </p>
>
> Lists don't have to be rendered as blocks of indented text. With
> appropriate CSS, that paragraph could be rendered in-line as "Forrest is
> wonderful because blah.., blah...".
The above I like. It's natural and common. IMHO a list is part of a
paragraph, not necessarilt a paragraph itself.
But I don't see a need not particularly like having paragraphs in list
elements.
These two things are not in discord and would not create recursive calls.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Comments on the DTD Deficiencies, a question and an attachment
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 10:18:55AM -0800, Carlos Araya wrote:
...
> About "Allow <ol> and <ul> inside <p>"
>
> Please don't!!! That is a stylesheet's nightmare as it creates
> recursive calls,
Yes.. is that a problem? They don't recurse forever.
> especially if you are allowing <p> inside <ol> and <ul>. It's much
> cleaner to break the paragraph with the list and then start a brand new
> paragraph rather than make the paragraph model largenr and potentially
> circular.
A paragraph is one "thought unit". Frequently a list comprises the
second half of a sentence (one thought), eg:
<p>
Forrest is wonderful because
<ul>
<li>blah..</li>
<li>blah..</li>
</ul>
</p>
Lists don't have to be rendered as blocks of indented text. With
appropriate CSS, that paragraph could be rendered in-line as "Forrest is
wonderful because blah.., blah...".
--Jeff