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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by Scooter <st...@scootersdesk.com> on 2014/08/27 16:50:14 UTC
Non-subscriber questions
Good Morning Group,
May I suggest that only LIST subscribers should be allowed to ask
questions. That would reduce all those folks who ask questions and don't
receive answers, because they are non-subscribers.
I applaud all the moderators for their efforts to help the
non-subscribers, but it seems there should be a requirement that people
should be subscribers of this LIST to ask questions or a better vehicle
to ask questions without joining.
There are a lot of intelligent people on this LIST and at Apache. Why is
there no on-line forum for AOO? That allows "open" questions and
answers. I assume that you are trying to promote good will for new
comers to AOO. It doesn't appear to be working.
I joined because I wanted the interaction of other users and clues to
problems and solutions of the AOO software.
I had originally got caught up in the Libre Office group list which told
me I was in the wrong place and had the incorrect Open Office software.
I corrected that error.
Take Care.
Scooter
College Park, MD USA
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by "M. Fioretti" <mf...@nexaima.net>.
On 2014-08-31 12:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 31/08/2014 M. Fioretti wrote:
>> On 2014-08-27 19:00, Julian Thomas wrote:
>>> Is there any way that [without a lot of effort] a post from a
>>> nonsubscriber could trigger an email warning that he/she will not see
>>> the response unless subscribed?
>> yes:
>> http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/
>
> I've seen (months/years back) another post of yours that was more
> relevant. I validated that one with Infra but ezmlm did not support
> the workflow you suggested.
you probably mean the autoresponder I have been proposing for about TEN
years, which would have been more limited, but way way simpler to
implement that what I proposed later in that other post, right?:
http://www.textndata.com/forums/discuss-peter-other-volunteers-please-124187.html
Marco
--
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 31/08/2014 M. Fioretti wrote:
> On 2014-08-27 19:00, Julian Thomas wrote:
>> Is there any way that [without a lot of effort] a post from a
>> nonsubscriber could trigger an email warning that he/she will not see
>> the response unless subscribed?
> yes:
> http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/
I've seen (months/years back) another post of yours that was more
relevant. I validated that one with Infra but ezmlm did not support the
workflow you suggested.
See also https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124854
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by "M. Fioretti" <mf...@nexaima.net>.
On 2014-08-27 19:00, Julian Thomas wrote:
> On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:04, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> This is exactly the spirit of this list. We very much prefer that
>> users subscribe, and you'll hardly find a link to this list on our
>> site that comes without the recommendation to subscribe. Still, it
>> seems many users prefer to send a quick mail rather than using the
>> forum, and this is why we currently allow non-subscribed members to
>> post.
>
> Is there any way that [without a lot of effort] a post from a
> nonsubscriber could trigger an email warning that he/she will not see
> the response unless subscribed?
yes:
http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
On 8/27/2014 12:00 PM, Julian Thomas wrote:
> On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:04, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> This is exactly the spirit of this list. We very much prefer that users subscribe, and you'll hardly find a link to this list on our site that comes without the recommendation to subscribe. Still, it seems many users prefer to send a quick mail rather than using the forum, and this is why we currently allow non-subscribed members to post.
> Is there any way that [without a lot of effort] a post from a nonsubscriber could trigger an email warning that he/she will not see the response unless subscribed?
>
> -- -- --
> jt http://jt-mj.net
>
> Silence is evidence of a superb command of the language
I think there is a limit as to how much "hand-holding" or "baby-sitting"
should be expected. There are thousands of mailing lists that offer
tech support or rather community support for a multitude of products.
Those that allow non subscribers to post and ask questions (knowing that
a very large percentage of those will never see the answers) can be
counted on one's fingers. There must be a web page somewhere pointing
to this mailing list (otherwise none of of us would have found it).
Explain it there that only registered users can post to the list because
that is the only way they can receive responses. The moderators have
plenty to do without having to verify that everyone who posts is registered.
Of course, with that comes the endless chain of complaints "why can't I
unsubscribe" or "stop sending me these messages" which also come from
users wanting someone else to do everything for them and can't be
bothered to read the unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of every
email they receive from the list. As far as hiding these comments as
part of the signatures, I've never seen an email client that hides
signatures on an original email. That would be foolish. They only hide
them on the responses to those emails because the original senders don't
need to see their own signatures. Those who say otherwise are unwilling
to admit that they are too lazy or too stupid to find and follow the
instructions.
Either way, there will be some whiners. I say "let them whine!!!" To
someone who claims to be a newbie and doesn't understand the jargon,
which really can be confusing to those unfamiliar with it, I would take
the time to explain in non-technical terms ONE TIME. After that, their
complaints would be relegated to an email filter. I don't know of any
email client which doesn't provide such filters.
Just my not-so-humble opinion.
Dale Erwin
Jr. 28 de Julio 657 (Int. 3)
Magdalena del Mar
Lima 17, PERU
If there are users who still can't cope with these methods, my opinion
is that they should find alternative methods to perform their tasks.
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 27/08/2014 Julian Thomas wrote:
> Is there any way that [without a lot of effort] a post from a
> nonsubscriber could trigger an email warning that he/she will
> not see the response unless subscribed?
It is one of the options we have already investigated without success:
it is a limitation of ezmlm-idx, the software we use. It allows to send
a message when a post is rejected (i.e., spam or completely irrelevant
content), but not when a post is held in moderation or when it is
accepted (which would be the best scenario). We investigated all the
options that were in turn proposed on this list or other lists: nothing
is readily feasible.
That said, it is not impossible to get these features into ezmlm: one
needs to start from http://untroubled.org/ezmlm/ ; development is not
steady but they do apply patches (if you look, the last patch was
submitted by myself last May and integrated shortly afterwards).
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by Julian Thomas <jt...@jt-mj.net>.
On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:04, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> This is exactly the spirit of this list. We very much prefer that users subscribe, and you'll hardly find a link to this list on our site that comes without the recommendation to subscribe. Still, it seems many users prefer to send a quick mail rather than using the forum, and this is why we currently allow non-subscribed members to post.
Is there any way that [without a lot of effort] a post from a nonsubscriber could trigger an email warning that he/she will not see the response unless subscribed?
-- -- --
jt http://jt-mj.net
Silence is evidence of a superb command of the language
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by DaveMainwaring <da...@gmail.com>.
{Q}users prefer to send a quick mail rather than using the forum, and this
is why we currently allow non-subscribed members to post.{EQ}
Thank you, This is appreciated.
For anyone wanting a closed members only forum they are free to set up a
group on LinkedIn.
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My Avocation: Building "Knowledge Networks" where participants share, learn
and grow
Writer Jane Ayres: "If I'm not learning, I'm not living."
"Speak softly and carry a large microphone" Bill Blinn - TechByter
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On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
wrote:
> On 27/08/2014 Scooter wrote:
>
>> May I suggest that only LIST subscribers should be allowed to ask
>> questions. That would reduce all those folks who ask questions and don't
>> receive answers, because they are non-subscribers.
>>
>
> We can have endless discussions on this (as we can have endless
> discussions on whether Reply-To by default should go to the list or to the
> sender). The current setup is the standard Apache setup and our tools have
> limited configuration options, that we already explored in detail together
> with the Infra team.
>
> There are a lot of intelligent people on this LIST and at Apache. Why is
>> there no on-line forum for AOO?
>>
>
> What? The forum is at https://forum.openoffice.org/ it handles 100+ help
> requests per day in 10 languages, it is maintained by the project and
> hosted on an Apache Software Foundation server and it is the first option
> listed at http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html
>
> I joined because I wanted the interaction of other users and clues to
>> problems and solutions of the AOO software.
>>
>
> This is exactly the spirit of this list. We very much prefer that users
> subscribe, and you'll hardly find a link to this list on our site that
> comes without the recommendation to subscribe. Still, it seems many users
> prefer to send a quick mail rather than using the forum, and this is why we
> currently allow non-subscribed members to post.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 27/08/2014 Scooter wrote:
> May I suggest that only LIST subscribers should be allowed to ask
> questions. That would reduce all those folks who ask questions and don't
> receive answers, because they are non-subscribers.
We can have endless discussions on this (as we can have endless
discussions on whether Reply-To by default should go to the list or to
the sender). The current setup is the standard Apache setup and our
tools have limited configuration options, that we already explored in
detail together with the Infra team.
> There are a lot of intelligent people on this LIST and at Apache. Why is
> there no on-line forum for AOO?
What? The forum is at https://forum.openoffice.org/ it handles 100+ help
requests per day in 10 languages, it is maintained by the project and
hosted on an Apache Software Foundation server and it is the first
option listed at http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html
> I joined because I wanted the interaction of other users and clues to
> problems and solutions of the AOO software.
This is exactly the spirit of this list. We very much prefer that users
subscribe, and you'll hardly find a link to this list on our site that
comes without the recommendation to subscribe. Still, it seems many
users prefer to send a quick mail rather than using the forum, and this
is why we currently allow non-subscribed members to post.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Non-subscriber questions
Posted by johnny smith <ka...@krovatka.su>.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:50:14 -0000, Scooter <st...@scootersdesk.com> wrote:
> May I suggest that only LIST subscribers should be allowed to ask
> questions. That would reduce all those folks who ask questions and don't
> receive answers, because they are non-subscribers.
it should be noted that when i send a copy of the message to the sender, it is sometimes attenuated by their mail server as being spammy. so, the one who asks the question may not receive an answer even if the one who replies is aware of their non-subscriber status.
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