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Posted to log4j-dev@logging.apache.org by Ceki Gülcü <ce...@qos.ch> on 2004/09/30 12:00:02 UTC
[VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Hello,
Given that no one is maintaining LF, I have asked whether there was
any opposition to removing LF5 in log4j version 1.3, in a message
posted a few weeks ago.
There have been no responses.
I suggest to move LF5 to a new CVS module called log4j-attic. The move
will preserve file history by messing directly with the history files
in the repository. Thus, if anyone decides to resuscitate LF5 in the
future, it would be technically possible.
Is this OK with everyone?
I vote as follows:
[X] Yes, move LF5 into log4j-attic
[ ] No, keep LF5 as is.
[ ] Abstain
--
Ceki Gülcü
For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp
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Re: [VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Posted by Jim Moore <mo...@gmail.com>.
[X] Yes, move LF5 into log4j-attic
[ ] No, keep LF5 as is.
[ ] Abstain
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RE: [VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Posted by Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com>.
Fine with me.
Jake
At 07:39 AM 10/1/2004 +1000, you wrote:
> > I vote as follows:
> >
> > [X] Yes, move LF5 into log4j-attic
> > [ ] No, keep LF5 as is.
> > [ ] Abstain
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Re: [VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@Stolsvik.com>.
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
| Endre,
|
|
| You are correct to observe that directly moving or removing history
| files (,v files) in the CVS repository causes problems with the
| existing work copies that users have checked out. Thanks for the
| heads up.
Actually, that's not what I'm referring to.. But that is definately also
an issue! ;)
|
| However, contrary to common belief, the *moved* history files are
| perfectly functional.
This I do know: Each ,v-file is self-contained.
My point is that if you check out log4j from e.g. 2004-03-25 (for
"historical reasons": you have this customer's project using log4j versjon
X.y, you only have the jar-file, and you'd like to hack the config-parsing
to satisfy some weird immediate requirement from the customer), this
checkout will not build anymore. The reason for this, is that the
dir-layout, and the javafiles, now have changed: the lf5 ones aren't there
anymore. The build.xml file (or whatever) will refer to directories and
java files that aren't there! (Basically, if you, after simply deleting
all the lf5 dirs from a fresh checkout, have to do -anything- to get the
build finished, you're in trouble, "history-wise"..)
|
| In order to ensure a smoother transition, one could *copy* the history
| files to log4j-attic and then perform a *CVS remove* operation on the
| LF5 files as they exists currently in the log4j CVS repository.
This is a much better approach. The new "log4j-attic" thing will have a
"code-history" dating way-back, but won't have a proper "build history"
untill from the point at which you check in a build-file that can build
the code and make the lf5 jar.
|
| This way, we would get rid of LF5 in our regular work environment and
| still keep its history elsewhere for those who may want it.
|
| Make better sense?
I really don't see the need for the copy-operation at all. The Attic in
CVS work like this already: assuming that no-one will pick up the lf5
system in some time, it doesn't really matter if it is accessible only by
checking out the log4j repo from before 2004-09-30. Even if people want
to start maintaining and updating the lf5 system, they'll just check out a
copy of the repo from 2004-09-29, add the lf5 files into a fresh HEAD-copy
of the repo, get it up and running, and then it can be re-added, thus
it'll get out of the Attic.
The copy-operation you suggest can be delayed to whenever someone wants to
"fork out" the lf5 project.
In any case, I personally advice against deleting -anything- from the CVS
repo: I believe that "build history" also must be maintained, or else the
history-aspect (the "way back" aspect, not just "rollback") of a SCM
system isn't much worth. "cvs remove" is what you most often want.
Endre
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Re: [VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Posted by Ceki Gülcü <ce...@qos.ch>.
Endre,
You are correct to observe that directly moving or removing history
files (,v files) in the CVS repository causes problems with the
existing work copies that users have checked out. Thanks for the
heads up.
However, contrary to common belief, the *moved* history files are
perfectly functional. They can be checked out from their new location
and contain the whole revision history. AFAIK, the problem is really
limited to the existing working copies. In the case of log4j, there
may be hundreds of such copies thought the world which would all
break. Not a good thing (TM).
In order to ensure a smoother transition, one could *copy* the history
files to log4j-attic and then perform a *CVS remove* operation on the
LF5 files as they exists currently in the log4j CVS repository. This
way, we would get rid of LF5 in our regular work environment and still
keep its history elsewhere for those who may want it.
Make better sense?
As for the build file, anyone interested in developing LF5 should be
able write a target to compile LF5.
At 01:20 PM 9/30/2004, Endre Stølsvik wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
>
>|
>| Hello,
>|
>| Given that no one is maintaining LF, I have asked whether there was
>| any opposition to removing LF5 in log4j version 1.3, in a message
>| posted a few weeks ago.
>|
>| There have been no responses.
>|
>| I suggest to move LF5 to a new CVS module called log4j-attic. The move
>| will preserve file history by messing directly with the history files
>| in the repository. Thus, if anyone decides to resuscitate LF5 in the
>| future, it would be technically possible.
>|
>| Is this OK with everyone?
>
>A comment to moving within CVS: This will most likely kill history for
>your current project: Will it be possible to check out a snapshot of
>yesterday's code and build it?
> Just think about the build-file itself? Won't that have any
>reference to the lf5-directories, source files or whatever?
>
>Moving in cvs will almost always give you history-breakings, and should as
>the most general rule always be avoided. What about simply "cvs removing"
>the files, thus moving them into the actual CVS Attic directory?
>
>Or, I guess, you could convert CVS to a SVN repo, and then do a "move"
>instruction to it, thus moving the whole dir-structure (which is
>impossible in CVS) as a history-event.
>
>Endre
--
Ceki Gülcü
For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp
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RE: [VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Posted by Paul Smith <ps...@aconex.com>.
> I vote as follows:
>
> [X] Yes, move LF5 into log4j-attic
> [ ] No, keep LF5 as is.
> [ ] Abstain
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Re: [VOTE] Moving LF5 to log4j-attic
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@Stolsvik.com>.
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
|
| Hello,
|
| Given that no one is maintaining LF, I have asked whether there was
| any opposition to removing LF5 in log4j version 1.3, in a message
| posted a few weeks ago.
|
| There have been no responses.
|
| I suggest to move LF5 to a new CVS module called log4j-attic. The move
| will preserve file history by messing directly with the history files
| in the repository. Thus, if anyone decides to resuscitate LF5 in the
| future, it would be technically possible.
|
| Is this OK with everyone?
A comment to moving within CVS: This will most likely kill history for
your current project: Will it be possible to check out a snapshot of
yesterday's code and build it?
Just think about the build-file itself? Won't that have any
reference to the lf5-directories, source files or whatever?
Moving in cvs will almost always give you history-breakings, and should as
the most general rule always be avoided. What about simply "cvs removing"
the files, thus moving them into the actual CVS Attic directory?
Or, I guess, you could convert CVS to a SVN repo, and then do a "move"
instruction to it, thus moving the whole dir-structure (which is
impossible in CVS) as a history-event.
Endre
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