memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>]

Igniters,

One of the main complaints I hear from users is that whenever the
persistence is turned on, index creation can really slow down the
performance, because of massive amounts of writes to disk. The reason
Ignite is writing indexes to disk is to support fast restarts - nothing
needs to be rebuilt on startup, and Ignite can become operational right
away.

However, as far as I can tell, most users care about faster operations
after the system is started and much less about the startup speed. What if
we added a mode where we do not persist indexes at all? This way data
ingestion and overall throughput will significantly increase (of course, at
the cost of startup type getting longer because we have to rebuild the
indexes).

There are 2 ways to achieve this in Ignite. The simplest way is not mark
index pages dirty in memory, so they will never participate in
check-pointing process. We also have to make sure that index pages never
get evicted form memory. This can be done fairly quickly. The disadvantage
of this approach is that if indexes fill up most of the memory, then it
will be very difficult to find a page to evict, which may hurt the
performance.

The other way is to have a separate in-memory off-heap region for indexes.
This region should never be persisted. It maybe somewhat bigger
refactoring, as we currently do not separate between index and data pages.
However, the advantage of this approach is that this region can be flushed
to disk practically as is during a graceful shutdown of the node, and hence
shorten the restart time.

I think we should start from the 1st approach and then think about the 2nd
one. What do you think?

D.

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Dmitry Pavlov <dp...@gmail.com>]

Hi Igniters,

I may repeat what was said early, but still: I prefer way of speeding up
indexes proposed by Vladimir in addition to page replacement optimizations
related to index pages.

Also recently Ivan Rakov created issue intended to optimize
findPageForReplacement method, it can also help with performance. End user
can see results as index speedup, but internally it is about page
replacement process.

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

вт, 8 мая 2018 г. в 1:12, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>:

> Dima, Denis,
>
> Please stoooooooop wanting this! :-)
>
> Guys, there are no in-memory indexes just to be in-memory. Let me briefly
> explain what other vendors do and why. There are three approaches:
> 1) You may create *skip-list* based in-memory index. Goal - speedup
> *READS*, not writes. Examples: MS SQL, Couchbase
> 2) You may create *columnar* in-memory index. Goal - speedup *SCANS* in
> OLAP cases, not writes. Example: Oracle [1]
> 3) You may drop my beloved cache groups and introduce
> *tablespaces*.instead.
> Then you assign data and indexes to different tablespaces and assign them
> to *different disks*. Goal - speedup index *WRITES* [2]. Example: all major
> vendors. E.g. putting data and indexes on different disks is one of the
> main Oracle recommendation in their capacity planning documents.
>
> As you see, nobody afraid of writes. Neither should we do.
>
> Vladimir.
>
> [1]
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/in-memory/overview/twp-oracle-database-in-memory-2245633.pdf
> [2] This is one of the reasons why I want to kill cache groups so
> desperately.
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Denis Magda <dm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Truly like the idea of having a separate "indexes in memory only mode"
> > regardless of the optimizations Vladimir keeps track of.
> >
> > In my observations, some database vendors support this as the only mode
> > requiring to rebuild the indexes on a restart which confirms that there
> is
> > a demand for this configuration in the industry.
> >
> > --
> > Denis
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Agree.
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrakyan@apache.org
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <
> vozerov@gridgain.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Dima,
> > > > >
> > > > > Update with indexes would definitely be slower than update without
> > > them.
> > > > > The question is how much slower. For now the slowdown comes mostly
> > from
> > > > > excessive data page reads ([1] and [2] in my previous email)
> leading
> > to
> > > > > page evictions and additional IO. To the contrast, usually only a
> > > single
> > > > > page write is needed to update an index. Correct index
> implementation
> > > > ([1]
> > > > > and [2] from previous email) would eliminate data page reads
> > altogether
> > > > and
> > > > > should give dramatic speedup.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sounds great. The changes you are suggesting should give us a great
> > > > performance boost. Hopefully they should not take too long to
> > implement.
> > > >
> > > > Regardless, once you are done, we should still perform a benchmark
> with
> > > > persistence indexes vs memory-only indexes. If memory-only will be
> more
> > > > than 20% faster, we should still implement it.
> > > >
> > > > D.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>]

Dima, Denis,

Please stoooooooop wanting this! :-)

Guys, there are no in-memory indexes just to be in-memory. Let me briefly
explain what other vendors do and why. There are three approaches:
1) You may create *skip-list* based in-memory index. Goal - speedup
*READS*, not writes. Examples: MS SQL, Couchbase
2) You may create *columnar* in-memory index. Goal - speedup *SCANS* in
OLAP cases, not writes. Example: Oracle [1]
3) You may drop my beloved cache groups and introduce *tablespaces*.instead.
Then you assign data and indexes to different tablespaces and assign them
to *different disks*. Goal - speedup index *WRITES* [2]. Example: all major
vendors. E.g. putting data and indexes on different disks is one of the
main Oracle recommendation in their capacity planning documents.

As you see, nobody afraid of writes. Neither should we do.

Vladimir.

[1]
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/in-memory/overview/twp-oracle-database-in-memory-2245633.pdf
[2] This is one of the reasons why I want to kill cache groups so
desperately.

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Denis Magda <dm...@apache.org> wrote:

> Truly like the idea of having a separate "indexes in memory only mode"
> regardless of the optimizations Vladimir keeps track of.
>
> In my observations, some database vendors support this as the only mode
> requiring to rebuild the indexes on a restart which confirms that there is
> a demand for this configuration in the industry.
>
> --
> Denis
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Agree.
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <dsetrakyan@apache.org
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Dima,
> > > >
> > > > Update with indexes would definitely be slower than update without
> > them.
> > > > The question is how much slower. For now the slowdown comes mostly
> from
> > > > excessive data page reads ([1] and [2] in my previous email) leading
> to
> > > > page evictions and additional IO. To the contrast, usually only a
> > single
> > > > page write is needed to update an index. Correct index implementation
> > > ([1]
> > > > and [2] from previous email) would eliminate data page reads
> altogether
> > > and
> > > > should give dramatic speedup.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Sounds great. The changes you are suggesting should give us a great
> > > performance boost. Hopefully they should not take too long to
> implement.
> > >
> > > Regardless, once you are done, we should still perform a benchmark with
> > > persistence indexes vs memory-only indexes. If memory-only will be more
> > > than 20% faster, we should still implement it.
> > >
> > > D.
> > >
> >
>

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Denis Magda <dm...@apache.org>]

Truly like the idea of having a separate "indexes in memory only mode"
regardless of the optimizations Vladimir keeps track of.

In my observations, some database vendors support this as the only mode
requiring to rebuild the indexes on a restart which confirms that there is
a demand for this configuration in the industry.

--
Denis

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
wrote:

> Agree.
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Dima,
> > >
> > > Update with indexes would definitely be slower than update without
> them.
> > > The question is how much slower. For now the slowdown comes mostly from
> > > excessive data page reads ([1] and [2] in my previous email) leading to
> > > page evictions and additional IO. To the contrast, usually only a
> single
> > > page write is needed to update an index. Correct index implementation
> > ([1]
> > > and [2] from previous email) would eliminate data page reads altogether
> > and
> > > should give dramatic speedup.
> > >
> >
> > Sounds great. The changes you are suggesting should give us a great
> > performance boost. Hopefully they should not take too long to implement.
> >
> > Regardless, once you are done, we should still perform a benchmark with
> > persistence indexes vs memory-only indexes. If memory-only will be more
> > than 20% faster, we should still implement it.
> >
> > D.
> >
>

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>]

Agree.

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dima,
> >
> > Update with indexes would definitely be slower than update without them.
> > The question is how much slower. For now the slowdown comes mostly from
> > excessive data page reads ([1] and [2] in my previous email) leading to
> > page evictions and additional IO. To the contrast, usually only a single
> > page write is needed to update an index. Correct index implementation
> ([1]
> > and [2] from previous email) would eliminate data page reads altogether
> and
> > should give dramatic speedup.
> >
>
> Sounds great. The changes you are suggesting should give us a great
> performance boost. Hopefully they should not take too long to implement.
>
> Regardless, once you are done, we should still perform a benchmark with
> persistence indexes vs memory-only indexes. If memory-only will be more
> than 20% faster, we should still implement it.
>
> D.
>

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>]

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
wrote:

> Hi Dima,
>
> Update with indexes would definitely be slower than update without them.
> The question is how much slower. For now the slowdown comes mostly from
> excessive data page reads ([1] and [2] in my previous email) leading to
> page evictions and additional IO. To the contrast, usually only a single
> page write is needed to update an index. Correct index implementation ([1]
> and [2] from previous email) would eliminate data page reads altogether and
> should give dramatic speedup.
>

Sounds great. The changes you are suggesting should give us a great
performance boost. Hopefully they should not take too long to implement.

Regardless, once you are done, we should still perform a benchmark with
persistence indexes vs memory-only indexes. If memory-only will be more
than 20% faster, we should still implement it.

D.

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>]

Hi Dima,

Update with indexes would definitely be slower than update without them.
The question is how much slower. For now the slowdown comes mostly from
excessive data page reads ([1] and [2] in my previous email) leading to
page evictions and additional IO. To the contrast, usually only a single
page write is needed to update an index. Correct index implementation ([1]
and [2] from previous email) would eliminate data page reads altogether and
should give dramatic speedup.

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
wrote:

> Vladimir, my comments are inline...
>
> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In general I do not support this initiative. There are two serious reasons
>> for that:
>> 1) Our indexes are slow on updates due to architectural flaws. First,
>> every
>> index entry must be of fixed size. For this reason we cannot inline full
>> values in general case and suffer from data page lookups [1]. Second,
>> final
>> comparisons always compare primary keys, so another lookup is needed [2].
>> Third, our indexes are fat because we are lacking prefix compression [3].
>>
>
> These all seem like great optimization and we should definitely do them.
> However, I am of the strong opinion that even after these optimizations,
> the data ingestion speed will be much slower with the persistence turned
> on. Am I wrong?
>
>
>> 2) Some vendors do have memory-only indexes - SQL Server, Couchbase,
>> MemSQL, to name a few. But they are memory optimized - no pages, no
>> BTrees.
>> Lock-free skiplist is used instead. This is correct design which really
>> fast. But we are very far from it at the moment.
>>
>
> I have not heard complaints about our BTree indexes being slow in memory.
> I only hear complaints about the slow-downs whenever the persistence is
> turned on and users are ingesting large amounts of data.
>
>
>> Taking this in count I would not consider memory-only BTree indexes in the
>> nearest future. Instead, we should focus on performance. When mentioned
>> things are fixed/implemented, our indexes will be both memory-efficient
>> and
>> very fast to update.
>>
>
> I would agree with you only if there is no performance boost in the short
> term. So far, disabling persistence for indexes seems like a very simple
> change, but could render a significant performance boost.
>
>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8385
>> [2]
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8384
>> [3]
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/IEP-20%
>> 3A+Data+Compression+in+Ignite#IEP-20:DataCompressioninIgnite
>> -IndexPrefixCompression
>>
>> сб, 5 мая 2018 г. в 3:46, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>:
>>
>> > Igniters,
>> >
>> > One of the main complaints I hear from users is that whenever the
>> > persistence is turned on, index creation can really slow down the
>> > performance, because of massive amounts of writes to disk. The reason
>> > Ignite is writing indexes to disk is to support fast restarts - nothing
>> > needs to be rebuilt on startup, and Ignite can become operational right
>> > away.
>> >
>> > However, as far as I can tell, most users care about faster operations
>> > after the system is started and much less about the startup speed. What
>> if
>> > we added a mode where we do not persist indexes at all? This way data
>> > ingestion and overall throughput will significantly increase (of
>> course, at
>> > the cost of startup type getting longer because we have to rebuild the
>> > indexes).
>> >
>> > There are 2 ways to achieve this in Ignite. The simplest way is not mark
>> > index pages dirty in memory, so they will never participate in
>> > check-pointing process. We also have to make sure that index pages never
>> > get evicted form memory. This can be done fairly quickly. The
>> disadvantage
>> > of this approach is that if indexes fill up most of the memory, then it
>> > will be very difficult to find a page to evict, which may hurt the
>> > performance.
>> >
>> > The other way is to have a separate in-memory off-heap region for
>> indexes.
>> > This region should never be persisted. It maybe somewhat bigger
>> > refactoring, as we currently do not separate between index and data
>> pages.
>> > However, the advantage of this approach is that this region can be
>> flushed
>> > to disk practically as is during a graceful shutdown of the node, and
>> hence
>> > shorten the restart time.
>> >
>> > I think we should start from the 1st approach and then think about the
>> 2nd
>> > one. What do you think?
>> >
>> > D.
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>]

Vladimir, my comments are inline...

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
wrote:

> In general I do not support this initiative. There are two serious reasons
> for that:
> 1) Our indexes are slow on updates due to architectural flaws. First, every
> index entry must be of fixed size. For this reason we cannot inline full
> values in general case and suffer from data page lookups [1]. Second, final
> comparisons always compare primary keys, so another lookup is needed [2].
> Third, our indexes are fat because we are lacking prefix compression [3].
>

These all seem like great optimization and we should definitely do them.
However, I am of the strong opinion that even after these optimizations,
the data ingestion speed will be much slower with the persistence turned
on. Am I wrong?


> 2) Some vendors do have memory-only indexes - SQL Server, Couchbase,
> MemSQL, to name a few. But they are memory optimized - no pages, no BTrees.
> Lock-free skiplist is used instead. This is correct design which really
> fast. But we are very far from it at the moment.
>

I have not heard complaints about our BTree indexes being slow in memory. I
only hear complaints about the slow-downs whenever the persistence is
turned on and users are ingesting large amounts of data.


> Taking this in count I would not consider memory-only BTree indexes in the
> nearest future. Instead, we should focus on performance. When mentioned
> things are fixed/implemented, our indexes will be both memory-efficient and
> very fast to update.
>

I would agree with you only if there is no performance boost in the short
term. So far, disabling persistence for indexes seems like a very simple
change, but could render a significant performance boost.


>
> [1]
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8385
> [2]
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8384
> [3]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/IEP-
> 20%3A+Data+Compression+in+Ignite#IEP-20:DataCompressioninIgnite-
> IndexPrefixCompression
>
> сб, 5 мая 2018 г. в 3:46, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>:
>
> > Igniters,
> >
> > One of the main complaints I hear from users is that whenever the
> > persistence is turned on, index creation can really slow down the
> > performance, because of massive amounts of writes to disk. The reason
> > Ignite is writing indexes to disk is to support fast restarts - nothing
> > needs to be rebuilt on startup, and Ignite can become operational right
> > away.
> >
> > However, as far as I can tell, most users care about faster operations
> > after the system is started and much less about the startup speed. What
> if
> > we added a mode where we do not persist indexes at all? This way data
> > ingestion and overall throughput will significantly increase (of course,
> at
> > the cost of startup type getting longer because we have to rebuild the
> > indexes).
> >
> > There are 2 ways to achieve this in Ignite. The simplest way is not mark
> > index pages dirty in memory, so they will never participate in
> > check-pointing process. We also have to make sure that index pages never
> > get evicted form memory. This can be done fairly quickly. The
> disadvantage
> > of this approach is that if indexes fill up most of the memory, then it
> > will be very difficult to find a page to evict, which may hurt the
> > performance.
> >
> > The other way is to have a separate in-memory off-heap region for
> indexes.
> > This region should never be persisted. It maybe somewhat bigger
> > refactoring, as we currently do not separate between index and data
> pages.
> > However, the advantage of this approach is that this region can be
> flushed
> > to disk practically as is during a graceful shutdown of the node, and
> hence
> > shorten the restart time.
> >
> > I think we should start from the 1st approach and then think about the
> 2nd
> > one. What do you think?
> >
> > D.
> >
>

Re: memory-only mode for Ignite indexes

[Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>]

In general I do not support this initiative. There are two serious reasons
for that:
1) Our indexes are slow on updates due to architectural flaws. First, every
index entry must be of fixed size. For this reason we cannot inline full
values in general case and suffer from data page lookups [1]. Second, final
comparisons always compare primary keys, so another lookup is needed [2].
Third, our indexes are fat because we are lacking prefix compression [3].
2) Some vendors do have memory-only indexes - SQL Server, Couchbase,
MemSQL, to name a few. But they are memory optimized - no pages, no BTrees.
Lock-free skiplist is used instead. This is correct design which really
fast. But we are very far from it at the moment.

Taking this in count I would not consider memory-only BTree indexes in the
nearest future. Instead, we should focus on performance. When mentioned
things are fixed/implemented, our indexes will be both memory-efficient and
very fast to update.

[1]
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8385
[2]
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8384
[3]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/IEP-20%3A+Data+Compression+in+Ignite#IEP-20:DataCompressioninIgnite-IndexPrefixCompression

сб, 5 мая 2018 г. в 3:46, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>:

> Igniters,
>
> One of the main complaints I hear from users is that whenever the
> persistence is turned on, index creation can really slow down the
> performance, because of massive amounts of writes to disk. The reason
> Ignite is writing indexes to disk is to support fast restarts - nothing
> needs to be rebuilt on startup, and Ignite can become operational right
> away.
>
> However, as far as I can tell, most users care about faster operations
> after the system is started and much less about the startup speed. What if
> we added a mode where we do not persist indexes at all? This way data
> ingestion and overall throughput will significantly increase (of course, at
> the cost of startup type getting longer because we have to rebuild the
> indexes).
>
> There are 2 ways to achieve this in Ignite. The simplest way is not mark
> index pages dirty in memory, so they will never participate in
> check-pointing process. We also have to make sure that index pages never
> get evicted form memory. This can be done fairly quickly. The disadvantage
> of this approach is that if indexes fill up most of the memory, then it
> will be very difficult to find a page to evict, which may hurt the
> performance.
>
> The other way is to have a separate in-memory off-heap region for indexes.
> This region should never be persisted. It maybe somewhat bigger
> refactoring, as we currently do not separate between index and data pages.
> However, the advantage of this approach is that this region can be flushed
> to disk practically as is during a graceful shutdown of the node, and hence
> shorten the restart time.
>
> I think we should start from the 1st approach and then think about the 2nd
> one. What do you think?
>
> D.
>