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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com> on 2018/12/03 18:56:52 UTC
Schliemann still alive?
Hello,
after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution to
create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
module?
Regards,
Mario
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by John Kostaras <jk...@gmail.com>.
Didn't have time to rewrite erlybird in ANTLR. Will try to find some time
in 2019... :)
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:27, Caoyuan <dc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wrote the Erlang plugin for NetBeans via Schliemann in 2007, the source
> code is still available here:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/erlybird/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/
>
> But as Enrico said, Schliemann is decpreacted and I don't think there will
> be anyone to pick it up.
>
> I wrote the Scala plugin for NetBeans based on the new langugae support
> APIs from 2008, you can find it here:
>
> https://github.com/dcaoyuan/nbscala
>
> But, I have no much time to enhance it during the past 2 years.
>
> -caoyuan
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:57 AM Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> > written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> > Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
> >
> > I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
> to
> > create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> > module?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mario
> >
>
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:17, Jean-Marc Borer <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Therefore you have to tweak and twist and hack the dependencies of the
> existing modules (become friend, link with an implementation version), but
> the problem is that you are obliged to create a version that is only
> compatible with a certain build even though the next release on NB would
> perfectly run with it.
>
> So I would like to have your opinion here: how could request or handle
> changes in the visibility of the classes in modules?
Re-open discussions and get involved with ideas outlined at
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Public+vs+Friend+API
?
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Jean-Marc Borer <jm...@gmail.com>.
Sometimes you have to tap into classes of Netbeans that are just
fundamentally useful, but those are not public. Most of the time I
understand why something is not made publicly available, but the more you
build plugins and modules that need to integrate with the IDE (not the
platform), the more "internal" classes you need especially when it comes to
friends...
Therefore you have to tweak and twist and hack the dependencies of the
existing modules (become friend, link with an implementation version), but
the problem is that you are obliged to create a version that is only
compatible with a certain build even though the next release on NB would
perfectly run with it.
So I would like to have your opinion here: how could request or handle
changes in the visibility of the classes in modules?
Cheers
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 11:12 PM Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I’d really like to help volunteer supporting the scala plugin to bring it
> to a first class supported language within the NetBeans IDE. I did start
> looking at it about 10 months ago but got by with the spark shell, I can’t
> remember exactly but iirc there was some dependency that had a specific
> version requirement making it incompatible with 8.2.
>
> If I was to start looking into it, where do you think initial focus should
> be?
>
> > On 6 Dec 2018, at 09:27, Caoyuan <dc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I wrote the Erlang plugin for NetBeans via Schliemann in 2007, the source
> > code is still available here:
> >
> > https://sourceforge.net/p/erlybird/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/
> >
> > But as Enrico said, Schliemann is decpreacted and I don't think there
> will
> > be anyone to pick it up.
> >
> > I wrote the Scala plugin for NetBeans based on the new langugae support
> > APIs from 2008, you can find it here:
> >
> > https://github.com/dcaoyuan/nbscala
> >
> > But, I have no much time to enhance it during the past 2 years.
> >
> > -caoyuan
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:57 AM Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> >> written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> >> Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
> >>
> >> I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a
> solution to
> >> create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> >> module?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Mario
> >>
>
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>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
I’d really like to help volunteer supporting the scala plugin to bring it to a first class supported language within the NetBeans IDE. I did start looking at it about 10 months ago but got by with the spark shell, I can’t remember exactly but iirc there was some dependency that had a specific version requirement making it incompatible with 8.2.
If I was to start looking into it, where do you think initial focus should be?
> On 6 Dec 2018, at 09:27, Caoyuan <dc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I wrote the Erlang plugin for NetBeans via Schliemann in 2007, the source
> code is still available here:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/erlybird/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/
>
> But as Enrico said, Schliemann is decpreacted and I don't think there will
> be anyone to pick it up.
>
> I wrote the Scala plugin for NetBeans based on the new langugae support
> APIs from 2008, you can find it here:
>
> https://github.com/dcaoyuan/nbscala
>
> But, I have no much time to enhance it during the past 2 years.
>
> -caoyuan
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:57 AM Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
>> written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
>> Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
>>
>> I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution to
>> create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
>> module?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mario
>>
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Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Caoyuan <dc...@gmail.com>.
I wrote the Erlang plugin for NetBeans via Schliemann in 2007, the source
code is still available here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/erlybird/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/
But as Enrico said, Schliemann is decpreacted and I don't think there will
be anyone to pick it up.
I wrote the Scala plugin for NetBeans based on the new langugae support
APIs from 2008, you can find it here:
https://github.com/dcaoyuan/nbscala
But, I have no much time to enhance it during the past 2 years.
-caoyuan
On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:57 AM Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
>
> I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution to
> create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> module?
>
> Regards,
> Mario
>
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>.
Thanks a lot for the answer.
Maybe you can tell me what is the status of Commons Scripting Language API.
The README says "...it is highly experimental..." But there are several
other modules which use the annotation LanguageRegistration from this API.
Is that save to use?
Am Mo., 3. Dez. 2018 um 20:41 Uhr schrieb Enrico Scantamburlo <
scanti.rulla@gmail.com>:
> The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
> stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
> know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
>
> Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
> ha
> scritto:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> > written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> > Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
> >
> > I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
> to
> > create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> > module?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mario
> >
>
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Peter Blemel <pb...@hotmail.com>.
A few years back there was a discussion about why Schliemann was being deprecated. At the time I was a bit perturbed, having 3 languages implemented in it at the time, but I understood the rationale. There were a lot of things that didn't work right and no one to support it (if I recall correctly). Having converted them to JavaCC I eventually made use of much more functionality that was available than Schliemann provided.
My thoughts are that a scripting language was nice, avoiding quite a bit of boilerplate code and some very confusing (and undocumented at the time) implementation details, but the tutorials I followed to get my languages ported to JavaCC at the time were complete and helpful. I don't know if those tutorials are still up to date. I tried finding them, and wasn't successful. If I had found ANTLR tutorials first, I might have gone that direction but JavaCC was familiar and worked.
Taking a lesson from history, if a scripting language is developed (or resurrected) then there needs to be solid support, including tutorials and bug fixes or it will suffer the same fate as Schliemann did. I am not sure if that can be achieved in a volunteer ecosystem where there are many other issues on the front burner, and those of us busy trying to earn a living from day to day don't really have time to contribute to the plumbing under the hood. I sometimes have enough spare cycles to help individuals with JavaCC related integration, but as it is there doesn't seem to be a lot of new language development judging by the posts on the mailing lists.
Peter
________________________________
From: Ryan Cuprak <rc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:16 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Schliemann still alive?
Why Schliemann over ANTLR? I am just curious as ANTLR appears to have a lot of traction.
-Ryan
> On Dec 3, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> If we gather enough interest and support in/from the community - I would
> suggest looking into the Schliemann approach and figure out if we can build
> a new, better version...
>
> Any volunteers interested in investigating?
>
> -Sven
>
> Am Mo., 3. Dez. 2018, 20:41 hat Enrico Scantamburlo <sc...@gmail.com>
> geschrieben:
>
>> The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
>> stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
>> know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
>>
>> Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
>> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
>>> written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
>>> Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
>>>
>>> I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
>> to
>>> create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
>>> module?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mario
>>>
>>
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Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Ryan Cuprak <rc...@gmail.com>.
Why Schliemann over ANTLR? I am just curious as ANTLR appears to have a lot of traction.
-Ryan
> On Dec 3, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> If we gather enough interest and support in/from the community - I would
> suggest looking into the Schliemann approach and figure out if we can build
> a new, better version...
>
> Any volunteers interested in investigating?
>
> -Sven
>
> Am Mo., 3. Dez. 2018, 20:41 hat Enrico Scantamburlo <sc...@gmail.com>
> geschrieben:
>
>> The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
>> stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
>> know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
>>
>> Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
>> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
>>> written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
>>> Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
>>>
>>> I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
>> to
>>> create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
>>> module?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mario
>>>
>>
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AW: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Hey Mario,
please have a look into this ticket: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-7
TLDR;
It is About to easily implement a lot of languages with one or Maybe less couple of files w/o writing Java for Syntax Highlighting, Braces Matching and some simple stuff. This was the Intention of NBS (NetBeans Scripting aka Schliemann). What I think, Schliemann is an own implementing of NetBeans and it was/is very great, the biggest Problem, there is no list of supported languages, no one has ever created NBS languages EXCEPT from cucumber/Gherkin. This is the only language implementation that I know that someone created as NBS for NetBeans.
Yes it is still working and you can still use it, but it is a big Buggy as others already mentioned it. So this is where the ticket started. A lot of other Editors has similar implementation like VS Code (They uses textMate language files), UltraEdit, NotePad++ and some others. Please see the ticket for more Details, I collected everything inside.
In short, NBS is nice but only one had created cucumber/Gherkin for NetBeans with NBS. I would like to have a more common use of what other IDEs or Editors use to reuse those languages.
I’m in contact with the textmate support to understand whether there is a list of supported languages or not.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Sven Reimers
Gesendet: Montag, 3. Dezember 2018 21:21
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Schliemann still alive?
Hi all,
If we gather enough interest and support in/from the community - I would
suggest looking into the Schliemann approach and figure out if we can build
a new, better version...
Any volunteers interested in investigating?
-Sven
Am Mo., 3. Dez. 2018, 20:41 hat Enrico Scantamburlo <sc...@gmail.com>
geschrieben:
> The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
> stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
> know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
>
> Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
> ha
> scritto:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> > written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> > Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
> >
> > I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
> to
> > create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> > module?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mario
> >
>
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>.
Hi all,
If we gather enough interest and support in/from the community - I would
suggest looking into the Schliemann approach and figure out if we can build
a new, better version...
Any volunteers interested in investigating?
-Sven
Am Mo., 3. Dez. 2018, 20:41 hat Enrico Scantamburlo <sc...@gmail.com>
geschrieben:
> The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
> stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
> know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
>
> Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com>
> ha
> scritto:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> > written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> > Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
> >
> > I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
> to
> > create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> > module?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mario
> >
>
Re: Schliemann still alive?
Posted by Enrico Scantamburlo <sc...@gmail.com>.
The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder <ma...@gmail.com> ha
scritto:
> Hello,
>
> after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
>
> I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution to
> create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> module?
>
> Regards,
> Mario
>