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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> on 2023/07/30 18:34:38 UTC
Re: Improving Onboarding Experiences - Updating PMC Chair onboarding
I plan to update the email and how-to information we provide to new PMC
members. Please comment or make any factual corrections on the wiki:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/PMC+Chair+Onboarding+Change+Proposal
I'll be working with M&P to see where this fits on the a.o/dev tree.
--
- Shane
ComDev PMC
The Apache Software Foundation
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Re: Improving Onboarding Experiences - Updating PMC Chair onboarding
Posted by Ayush Saxena <ay...@gmail.com>.
Thanx Shane for the clarification, makes sense to me!!!
-Ayush
> On 31-Jul-2023, at 4:03 PM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>
> Ayush Saxena wrote on 7/30/23 2:49 PM:
>> Hi Shane,
>> Thanx for the work, Read it & it is really very helpful!!!
>
> Yay! Someone actually read it!
>
>> Just two minor doubts or confusion:
>> First,
>>> Chairs are responsible for sharing any Board feedback with your PMC
>> Doesn't the feedback come directly to the PMC & anyone from the PMC can answer?
>> Context: There was an email from Rich to all dev lists [1] which read:
>> ```
>> Every PMC member can, and should, respond when the Board sends email
>> to your private list. You should not wait for the PMC Chair to
>> respond. The Board views the entire PMC as responsible for the
>> project, not just one member.
>> ```
>
> Both are true. The whole PMC should feel empowered to help oversee the project, including answering any board questions. But the board holds the chair personally responsible for making sure board questions are answered. Otherwise, we sometimes get the case where the committee of many people each assume someone else is handling it, and questions never get answered.
>
> In particular, the board will sometimes replace the chair when a project's reports or answers aren't sufficient. That's generally either a sign that "Hey, your PMC *really* needs to shape up your projects", and the board tells the PMC to pick a new chair who's more active (this sometimes happens when the chair changes jobs or goes away).
>
>> Second,
>>> While any PMC member can handle some PMC updates, in some cases only the Chair may have permissions to make roster updates.
>> This sounds a little bit incomplete, What are some of those cases? Can
>> we link that as well. Most of the things any member can handle via
>> Whimsy - apache id creation AFAIK
>
> Both are true. The purpose of this specific bit of content is to only have the minimal required/recommended setup steps for becoming a new Chair. Everything else - like what those cases are - should be documented on the existing /dev/pmc.html page.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> --
> - Shane
> ComDev PMC
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
>> -Ayush
>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xyfpw41m65wrk3ftds4jtvyzjoxhtx70
>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 at 00:04, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I plan to update the email and how-to information we provide to new PMC
>>> members. Please comment or make any factual corrections on the wiki:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/PMC+Chair+Onboarding+Change+Proposal
>>>
>>> I'll be working with M&P to see where this fits on the a.o/dev tree.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Shane
>>> ComDev PMC
>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>
>
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Re: Improving Onboarding Experiences - Updating PMC Chair onboarding
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Ayush Saxena wrote on 7/30/23 2:49 PM:
> Hi Shane,
> Thanx for the work, Read it & it is really very helpful!!!
Yay! Someone actually read it!
> Just two minor doubts or confusion:
>
> First,
>
>> Chairs are responsible for sharing any Board feedback with your PMC
>
> Doesn't the feedback come directly to the PMC & anyone from the PMC can answer?
>
> Context: There was an email from Rich to all dev lists [1] which read:
> ```
> Every PMC member can, and should, respond when the Board sends email
> to your private list. You should not wait for the PMC Chair to
> respond. The Board views the entire PMC as responsible for the
> project, not just one member.
> ```
Both are true. The whole PMC should feel empowered to help oversee the
project, including answering any board questions. But the board holds
the chair personally responsible for making sure board questions are
answered. Otherwise, we sometimes get the case where the committee of
many people each assume someone else is handling it, and questions never
get answered.
In particular, the board will sometimes replace the chair when a
project's reports or answers aren't sufficient. That's generally either
a sign that "Hey, your PMC *really* needs to shape up your projects",
and the board tells the PMC to pick a new chair who's more active (this
sometimes happens when the chair changes jobs or goes away).
> Second,
>
>> While any PMC member can handle some PMC updates, in some cases only the Chair may have permissions to make roster updates.
>
> This sounds a little bit incomplete, What are some of those cases? Can
> we link that as well. Most of the things any member can handle via
> Whimsy - apache id creation AFAIK
Both are true. The purpose of this specific bit of content is to only
have the minimal required/recommended setup steps for becoming a new
Chair. Everything else - like what those cases are - should be
documented on the existing /dev/pmc.html page.
Does that make sense?
--
- Shane
ComDev PMC
The Apache Software Foundation
> -Ayush
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xyfpw41m65wrk3ftds4jtvyzjoxhtx70
>
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 at 00:04, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>>
>> I plan to update the email and how-to information we provide to new PMC
>> members. Please comment or make any factual corrections on the wiki:
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/PMC+Chair+Onboarding+Change+Proposal
>>
>> I'll be working with M&P to see where this fits on the a.o/dev tree.
>>
>> --
>> - Shane
>> ComDev PMC
>> The Apache Software Foundation
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Re: Improving Onboarding Experiences - Updating PMC Chair onboarding
Posted by Ayush Saxena <ay...@gmail.com>.
Hi Shane,
Thanx for the work, Read it & it is really very helpful!!!
Just two minor doubts or confusion:
First,
> Chairs are responsible for sharing any Board feedback with your PMC
Doesn't the feedback come directly to the PMC & anyone from the PMC can answer?
Context: There was an email from Rich to all dev lists [1] which read:
```
Every PMC member can, and should, respond when the Board sends email
to your private list. You should not wait for the PMC Chair to
respond. The Board views the entire PMC as responsible for the
project, not just one member.
```
Second,
> While any PMC member can handle some PMC updates, in some cases only the Chair may have permissions to make roster updates.
This sounds a little bit incomplete, What are some of those cases? Can
we link that as well. Most of the things any member can handle via
Whimsy - apache id creation AFAIK
-Ayush
[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xyfpw41m65wrk3ftds4jtvyzjoxhtx70
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 at 00:04, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>
> I plan to update the email and how-to information we provide to new PMC
> members. Please comment or make any factual corrections on the wiki:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/PMC+Chair+Onboarding+Change+Proposal
>
> I'll be working with M&P to see where this fits on the a.o/dev tree.
>
> --
> - Shane
> ComDev PMC
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
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Re: Improving Onboarding Experiences - Updating PMC Chair onboarding
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Craig Russell wrote on 7/30/23 5:21 PM:
> Hi Shane,
>
> Thanks for taking on this task. A couple of comments:
Yay! Someone else read it!
> 1. Congratulations on being appointed by the board as a project VP and Chair of your PMC!
>
> I do not believe that there is a "project VP". There is an ASF VP and a project Chair. So I'd change this to :
>
> Congratulations on being appointed by the board as an ASF VP and Chair of your project's PMC!
>
> The same text appears in 1) and 2)
Well, people are appointed as an ASF VP of their project - like I'm V.P.
Apache Whimsy. So I think either makes sense in the context here,
especially for newcomers; especially since we in common conversation we
often refer to project VPs. Any other opinions?
All other questions are great ones that I agree should get done... by
whoever's volunteering to update the *other* content in /dev/pmc.html
My purpose here is to *only* write one page (or section) of content that
handles the minimal onboarding steps for a new PMC Chair.
I only have personal brainpower right now to work on *one* new bit of
content at a time, so I'll leave the other questions for later (or, even
better, someone new who wants to help make important clarifications).
> 2. I believe that since the adoption of these standards, the board created the concept of a Roll Call. While not needed for the welcome-to-new-pmc-chairs, the material linked should be updated to include the concept.
>
> 3. In the reporting description of new committers and PMC members:
> When were the newest committers or PMC members elected? [REQUIRED]
>
> The report should specially not name prospective committers or PMC members that are currently being voted or invited but have not accepted. Only committers or PMC members that have been added to the roster should be mentioned. Any in-process candidates should be included in the next report.
>
> Regards,
> Craig
>
>> On Jul 30, 2023, at 11:34, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>>
>> I plan to update the email and how-to information we provide to new PMC members. Please comment or make any factual corrections on the wiki:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/PMC+Chair+Onboarding+Change+Proposal
>>
>> I'll be working with M&P to see where this fits on the a.o/dev tree.
>>
--
- Shane
ComDev PMC
The Apache Software Foundation
--
- Shane
Member
The Apache Software Foundation
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Re: Improving Onboarding Experiences - Updating PMC Chair onboarding
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
Hi Shane,
Thanks for taking on this task. A couple of comments:
1. Congratulations on being appointed by the board as a project VP and Chair of your PMC!
I do not believe that there is a "project VP". There is an ASF VP and a project Chair. So I'd change this to :
Congratulations on being appointed by the board as an ASF VP and Chair of your project's PMC!
The same text appears in 1) and 2)
2. I believe that since the adoption of these standards, the board created the concept of a Roll Call. While not needed for the welcome-to-new-pmc-chairs, the material linked should be updated to include the concept.
3. In the reporting description of new committers and PMC members:
When were the newest committers or PMC members elected? [REQUIRED]
The report should specially not name prospective committers or PMC members that are currently being voted or invited but have not accepted. Only committers or PMC members that have been added to the roster should be mentioned. Any in-process candidates should be included in the next report.
Regards,
Craig
> On Jul 30, 2023, at 11:34, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>
> I plan to update the email and how-to information we provide to new PMC members. Please comment or make any factual corrections on the wiki:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/PMC+Chair+Onboarding+Change+Proposal
>
> I'll be working with M&P to see where this fits on the a.o/dev tree.
>
> --
> - Shane
> ComDev PMC
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org
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