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Posted to doc@openoffice.apache.org by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net> on 2013/05/09 03:48:35 UTC
Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status
page.
<snip>
>>>
>> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
>> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up for
>> the mailing list:
>>
>>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list
>>> which is
>>
>> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the project.
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>>
>> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
>> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
>> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
>> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
>> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
>> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards Keith McKenna
>>
>>
>> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and see
>> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on the
>> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see the
>> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and editing.
>>
>> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to become
>> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with knowledge of
>> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
>> applications.
>>
>
> Some thoughts on this.
>
> We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
> putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
> blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
> not many ultimately contributed.
>
> Why is this so?
>
> Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
> in the documentation tasks?
>
This is very possible. I do not believe that we have near enough
structure now.
> Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
> documentation topics?
>
I think this is a part of it. Another part is that some of those that
have the expertise do not like the wiki format where anyone can edit the
page and take it in a completely different direction.
> Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
> get started?
>
We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
> It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
> could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
> would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
> we'll get similar results, right?
>
I am afraid all that renewing the call for volunteers will accomplish at
this point is to add to the frustration level.
> Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
> do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
> writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
> documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
> what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
> features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
> them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
> specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
> experienced users could also be helpful.
>
> In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
> that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
> develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
> initially, to reviewing drafts.
>
Rob, right now I would be ecstatic if we had people doing that. If you
look at the status page You will see Ricardo's name as author, mine as
and one of two others as proofreading, and mine as doing a technical review.
Right now I believe the documentation effort as a whole is suffering
from the lack of people who are knowledgeable in technical writing and
the processes and tasks that go along with that.
Let me go off and think a bit more about what else we can do to move the
documentation effort along.
Regards
Keith
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> Regards
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
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RE: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Jane Agnew <ja...@ontera.net>.
Hi Keith
It seems my name and e-mail were erroneously linked
to the openoffice doc volunteers list. I am a biochemist
and artist. If I can help in these areas I am more than happy to do so.
Thank you
Jane Agnew
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mckenna@comcast.net]
Sent: May 8, 2013 9:49 PM
To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's
Status page.
<snip>
>>>
>> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that
had
>> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed
up for
>> the mailing list:
>>
>>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing
list
>>> which is
>>
>> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the
project.
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>>
>> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
>> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
>> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the
instructions
>> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set
your
>> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
>> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards Keith McKenna
>>
>>
>> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check
and see
>> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on
the
>> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly
appreciated.
>>
>> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and
see the
>> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and
editing.
>>
>> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to
become
>> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with
knowledge of
>> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
>> applications.
>>
>
> Some thoughts on this.
>
> We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
> putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
> blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
> not many ultimately contributed.
>
> Why is this so?
>
> Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
> in the documentation tasks?
>
This is very possible. I do not believe that we have near enough
structure now.
> Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
> documentation topics?
>
I think this is a part of it. Another part is that some of those that
have the expertise do not like the wiki format where anyone can edit the
page and take it in a completely different direction.
> Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
> get started?
>
We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
> It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
> could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
> would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
> we'll get similar results, right?
>
I am afraid all that renewing the call for volunteers will accomplish at
this point is to add to the frustration level.
> Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
> do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
> writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
> documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
> what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
> features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
> them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
> specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
> experienced users could also be helpful.
>
> In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
> that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
> develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
> initially, to reviewing drafts.
>
Rob, right now I would be ecstatic if we had people doing that. If you
look at the status page You will see Ricardo's name as author, mine as
and one of two others as proofreading, and mine as doing a technical
review.
Right now I believe the documentation effort as a whole is suffering
from the lack of people who are knowledgeable in technical writing and
the processes and tasks that go along with that.
Let me go off and think a bit more about what else we can do to move the
documentation effort along.
Regards
Keith
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> Regards
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
-----
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Edwin Sharp <el...@mail-page.com>.
On Thu, May 9, 2013, at 18:11, Rob Weir wrote:
> We're talking about a corporate way of working, where someone assigns you
> items.
There is no other way.
A corporate has financial resources and abundance, we don't.
We can not afford two people doing the same task at the same time.
We can not afford an inexperienced volunteer wasting precious time on a task a more experienced volunteer will complete in no time.
We can not afford an important task ignored because it seems dull to the volunteers.
We must be as efficient as possible.
> I wonder if we just need to take the next step, and suggest
> specific items for new volunteers from that list?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
Yes please.
Some people feel uncomfortable doing things unannounced. I know I do.
Guidance and Feedback. That's what volunteers need.
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RE: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
+1
I think gentle mentoring will be very useful for newcomers, since there is considerable tacit lore that needs to be grasped before taking bigger steps. This seems to apply for documentation as well as for working on the code, since there are toolcraft requirements as well as practices to become fluent with.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 08:11
To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Keith N. McKenna
[ ... ]
> We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
> time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
>
I think even a little would help. For example, with QA we found it
valuable to give new volunteers "assignments" when they started, until
they were more familiar with the tools and process, and then they were
able to select their own items to work on. We could do something
similar. For example, a new volunteer joins the list and we say,
"We're working on AOO 4.0 documentation on the wiki now. We have
plenty of editing and review work available. Would you be able to do
a <technical review of this chapter here> or <copyediting of these
chapters> or <some other well-defined task>?
I know this seems a little odd, and I resisted it at first. We're
talking about a corporate way of working, where someone assigns you
items. But that is how almost every charity works. If I show up at a
homeless shelter and offer to volunteer, they don't just let me roam
the building, trying to find stuff that needs to be done. They have a
"volunteer coordinator" who talks to me initially, figures out what
skills I have, and then assigns me some items to work on. I don't
mind, because my goal is help. I'm looking for a meaningful way to
contribute. The volunteer coordinator does not impose by giving me an
assignment. She helps me achieve my goals of contributing.
So it is great that we have the wiki to track the work that needs to
be done. I wonder if we just need to take the next step, and suggest
specific items for new volunteers from that list?
Regards,
-Rob
[ ... ]
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For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>>
>>> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
>>> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up
>>> for
>>> the mailing list:
>>>
>>>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>>>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list
>>>> which is
>>>
>>>
>>> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the
>>> project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>>>
>>>
>>> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
>>> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
>>> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
>>> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
>>> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
>>> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards Keith McKenna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and
>>> see
>>> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on the
>>> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see
>>> the
>>> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and editing.
>>>
>>> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to
>>> become
>>> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with knowledge
>>> of
>>> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
>>> applications.
>>>
>>
>> Some thoughts on this.
>>
>> We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
>> putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
>> blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
>> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
>> not many ultimately contributed.
>>
>> Why is this so?
>>
>> Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
>> in the documentation tasks?
>>
> This is very possible. I do not believe that we have near enough structure
> now.
>
>
>> Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
>> documentation topics?
>>
> I think this is a part of it. Another part is that some of those that have
> the expertise do not like the wiki format where anyone can edit the page and
> take it in a completely different direction.
>
>
>> Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
>> get started?
>>
>
> We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
> time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
>
I think even a little would help. For example, with QA we found it
valuable to give new volunteers "assignments" when they started, until
they were more familiar with the tools and process, and then they were
able to select their own items to work on. We could do something
similar. For example, a new volunteer joins the list and we say,
"We're working on AOO 4.0 documentation on the wiki now. We have
plenty of editing and review work available. Would you be able to do
a <technical review of this chapter here> or <copyediting of these
chapters> or <some other well-defined task>?
I know this seems a little odd, and I resisted it at first. We're
talking about a corporate way of working, where someone assigns you
items. But that is how almost every charity works. If I show up at a
homeless shelter and offer to volunteer, they don't just let me roam
the building, trying to find stuff that needs to be done. They have a
"volunteer coordinator" who talks to me initially, figures out what
skills I have, and then assigns me some items to work on. I don't
mind, because my goal is help. I'm looking for a meaningful way to
contribute. The volunteer coordinator does not impose by giving me an
assignment. She helps me achieve my goals of contributing.
So it is great that we have the wiki to track the work that needs to
be done. I wonder if we just need to take the next step, and suggest
specific items for new volunteers from that list?
Regards,
-Rob
>
>> It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
>> could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
>> would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
>> we'll get similar results, right?
>>
>
> I am afraid all that renewing the call for volunteers will accomplish at
> this point is to add to the frustration level.
>
>
>> Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
>> do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
>> writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
>> documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
>> what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
>> features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
>> them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
>> specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
>> experienced users could also be helpful.
>>
>> In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
>> that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
>> develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
>> initially, to reviewing drafts.
>>
>
> Rob, right now I would be ecstatic if we had people doing that. If you look
> at the status page You will see Ricardo's name as author, mine as and one of
> two others as proofreading, and mine as doing a technical review.
>
> Right now I believe the documentation effort as a whole is suffering from
> the lack of people who are knowledgeable in technical writing and the
> processes and tasks that go along with that.
>
> Let me go off and think a bit more about what else we can do to move the
> documentation effort along.
>
> Regards
> Keith
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org