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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Steven Punte <st...@excite.com> on 2001/05/26 18:23:12 UTC
What is Your Presentation Layer?
Dear Cocoon User Group:
I've spent about the last six months building a
large complex cocoon based dynamic web site.
Yes, the separation of content, logic, and presentation
is great. However, the more I think about it, the hard
it seems to define exactly should be in the presentation layer.
Certainly, color scheme, font type, encapsulation
of all HTML, etc... is in the presentation layer.
However, what about layout? If one moves layout into
the presentation layer, then many page specific
templates (i.e. <xsl:template match="page-xxxx">)
(or equivalent) are needed in the presentation layer.
This doesn't seem right.
On the other hand, if layout is specified in the logic
layer, then this makes it more difficult to support
a different display technology such as WAP, where
pages need to be broken up into the finer granularity
of cards.
Hmm.
So, "What is Your Presentation Layer?"
Inquiring Minds Want To Know!
Steve Punte
stevep@candlelightsoftware.com
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Re: What is Your Presentation Layer?
Posted by Gritsenko <gr...@home.com>.
Presentation is not about looks, it's about meanings too.
Things mean something to someone when they look some paticular way.
By looking at appearances, one thinks of possible applicable actions to the
thing he looks at.
For different observers, same look means diff. possibly applicable actions.
Etc.
Now, when we think of meanings, we abstract the reality, which doesn't care
what we think about it and acts the way it acts.
All this being said, one can try to separate something that is inseparable.
Needless to say, that's what we do while practicing our profession. Of
course we get frustrated so fast.
Viktor
PS.
Hi, my name is Joe. What's your presentation layer? :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Punte" <st...@excite.com>
To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: What is Your Presentation Layer?
> Dear Cocoon User Group:
>
> I've spent about the last six months building a
> large complex cocoon based dynamic web site.
>
> Yes, the separation of content, logic, and presentation
> is great. However, the more I think about it, the hard
> it seems to define exactly should be in the presentation layer.
>
> Certainly, color scheme, font type, encapsulation
> of all HTML, etc... is in the presentation layer.
>
> However, what about layout? If one moves layout into
> the presentation layer, then many page specific
> templates (i.e. <xsl:template match="page-xxxx">)
> (or equivalent) are needed in the presentation layer.
> This doesn't seem right.
>
> On the other hand, if layout is specified in the logic
> layer, then this makes it more difficult to support
> a different display technology such as WAP, where
> pages need to be broken up into the finer granularity
> of cards.
>
> Hmm.
>
> So, "What is Your Presentation Layer?"
>
> Inquiring Minds Want To Know!
>
> Steve Punte
> stevep@candlelightsoftware.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Send a cool gift with your E-Card
> http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>
>
>
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> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
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Re: What is Your Presentation Layer?
Posted by "Jens-A. Reinhardt" <fl...@uni-koblenz.de>.
My approach is similar to the one below. I have a content layer which
somehow aggregates data (sql, xinclude, ..) and use XSLT to generate a
view on that data (if necessary). This view only asserts that relating
data becomes a set of a common parent node and structures as lists are
represented in the output tree (e.g. as a set of childs).
In a next step I process the structured content using a generic skin layer
which provides different views on text fragements, or lists, for example.
The skin layer bases on the presentation/content separation technique
outlined in an article which someone posted to this list a while ago.
(http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2000/07/26/xslt/xsltstyle.html)
Jens
On Sun, 27 May 2001, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> I actually have multiple presentation layers. IOW, I take my
> site markup, and transform it into a layout (either using C2's
> aggregation, or XSLT), and from there I use the final "skin".
>
> The biggest thing for me is that I need to be able to restructure
> the visible components of my site in just a small number of files.
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Re: What is Your Presentation Layer?
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
I actually have multiple presentation layers. IOW, I take my
site markup, and transform it into a layout (either using C2's
aggregation, or XSLT), and from there I use the final "skin".
The biggest thing for me is that I need to be able to restructure
the visible components of my site in just a small number of files.
Steven Punte wrote:
>
> Dear Cocoon User Group:
>
> I've spent about the last six months building a
> large complex cocoon based dynamic web site.
>
> Yes, the separation of content, logic, and presentation
> is great. However, the more I think about it, the hard
> it seems to define exactly should be in the presentation layer.
>
> Certainly, color scheme, font type, encapsulation
> of all HTML, etc... is in the presentation layer.
>
> However, what about layout? If one moves layout into
> the presentation layer, then many page specific
> templates (i.e. <xsl:template match="page-xxxx">)
> (or equivalent) are needed in the presentation layer.
> This doesn't seem right.
>
> On the other hand, if layout is specified in the logic
> layer, then this makes it more difficult to support
> a different display technology such as WAP, where
> pages need to be broken up into the finer granularity
> of cards.
>
> Hmm.
>
> So, "What is Your Presentation Layer?"
>
> Inquiring Minds Want To Know!
>
> Steve Punte
> stevep@candlelightsoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Send a cool gift with your E-Card
> http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
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Re: What is Your Presentation Layer?
Posted by Uli Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
On Sat, 26 May 2001, Steven Punte wrote:
> So, "What is Your Presentation Layer?"
I think XSLFO is a good stab at a pretty generic layout language. It
supports all kinds of different writing systems (right-left, bottom-up)
and shows that it is possible to define a meta language for everyone. Of
course it's only good for page-oriented material, but it should be
possible to define a similar language for screen-oriented material. If we
had such a language we could have tools to automatically convert from this
language into HTML or Swing or whatever.
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Softwareentwicklung
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