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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> on 2005/12/21 12:01:42 UTC
"Closed for renovations" (was:Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal)
On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 04:49:29PM -0800, Martin Cooper wrote:
> Some comments:
<snip/>
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 10:54:03AM +0100, Rapha�l Luta wrote:
> To me it raises all the possible incubation warning bells:
<snip/>
Two convincing posts.
> In summary I see this proposal as a high risk, low value offer to the ASF
> and would definitely pass on it.
We might summarise other comments so far as concerns about a "low value" not
just for the ASF but for the larger open source community in general.
Hmm. This is a new thing for us here at the incubator. Eg we've seen "high
risk, low value" proposals before, but those were generally greeted with a
lack of interest in the problem space all-around. Judging by the amount and
length of the emails, there's a bunch of people really interested in this
AJAX thing.
The ASF isn't very good at "saying no", at least not very loudly. All our
processes are geared at "saying yes" the right way and only if we feel
comfortable. It seems we have something to learn here, and its a bit scary
since this may have further negative impact on the subject at hand (you can
just imagine all the bile..."Man, this project really sucks! Even the ASF
didn't want it, and they ship more crap than any other open source
organisation!").
I feel a bit sorry for the Zimbra guys being caught in the middle (in general
I have a hard time feeling sorry for IBM, because its, well, IBM, and too big
too have any feelings towards except "too big") of what is essentially the ASF
doing some soul-searching and navel-staring with regard to the incubation
process. I can fully imagine how the people that worked on this proposal spent
weeks in excitement at the prospect of joining up with the ASF and all the good
stuff that would come of it, and now they're getting a cold shower.
I have this urge to set up an "Under construction" sign on the incubator front
page with a subtitle along the lines of "closed for renovations"...
- LSD
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Re: "Closed for renovations" (was:Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework
Proposal)
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 03:01 -0800, Leo Simons wrote:
>
> I have this urge to set up an "Under construction" sign on the incubator front
> page with a subtitle along the lines of "closed for renovations"...
+1, to give us a bit of soul searching time. We should put a cap on the
renovation time - 2 weeks seems ok to me given the holiday season.
[With lots of apologies to the proponents of the project :(.]
Sanjiva.
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Re: "Closed for renovations" (was:Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal)
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 12/21/05, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
<snip>
> The ASF isn't very good at "saying no", at least not very loudly. All our
> processes are geared at "saying yes" the right way and only if we feel
> comfortable. It seems we have something to learn here, and its a bit scary
> since this may have further negative impact on the subject at hand (you can
> just imagine all the bile..."Man, this project really sucks! Even the ASF
> didn't want it, and they ship more crap than any other open source
> organisation!").
LOL
or maybe: "ASF has turned this project down! Must be great! We've
found the next JBoss." ;)
- robert
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Re: "Closed for renovations" (was:Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 21 déc. 05, à 12:01, Leo Simons a écrit :
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 04:49:29PM -0800, Martin Cooper wrote:
>> Some comments:
> <snip/>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 10:54:03AM +0100, Raphaël Luta wrote:
>> To me it raises all the possible incubation warning bells:
> <snip/>
Same feelings here, I agree with Martin's and Raphaël's concerns.
> ...I feel a bit sorry for the Zimbra guys..
To me the right thing to do if you were an "outside" company trying to
join the ASF with a cool project, would be to build interest inside the
ASF first and to get to know each other.
In other words, if I were Zimbra (but I'm not ;-) I'd get involved with
some ASF projects where my stuff makes sense (Cocoon, JSF, Tapestry,
you name it) to show us how good that stuff is, and most importantly to
build relationships before coming up with a proposal where we (or most
of us at least) recognize no one.
(I hope) the ASF is (still) about communities, not primarily code.
-Bertrand
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