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Posted to dev@aries.apache.org by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net> on 2017/05/05 09:33:00 UTC
[DISCUSS] Policy to only have english error and log messages
In some aries modules we use NLS support to be able to translate
messages. I am not aware that this is actually used in practice and I
think it is not a good idea to translate technical exception or log
messages anyway.
The reason is that we get such exceptions in jiras and it is difficult
to support uncommon languages in this way.
So I propose we only use english exception and log messages and remove
NLS support.
WDYT?
Christian
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
http://www.talend.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Policy to only have english error and log messages
Posted by Alasdair Nottingham <al...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I was probably the person who put most of those in, so I thought I should comment on why I did. There are some counties that have laws that require products be translated into certain languages. For example Canada requires French translation. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if exception messages would be covered, but I thought better safe than sorry. I understand the points made in the thread about googleability if they were translated though.
Alasdair Nottingham
> On May 5, 2017, at 7:11 AM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I fully agree. Searching for non localized messages obviously gives
> much better results.
>
> 2017-05-05 11:53 GMT+02:00 David Bosschaert <da...@gmail.com>:
>
>> I agree too. Messages such as the ones coming out of Aries components
>> should generally not be presented to end users. They are for developers and
>> people maintaining the system. They should be able to handle the English
>> error, actually it would probably be harder for them to deal with a
>> localized error message since web searches and places like stackoverflow
>> would probably not have entries for these localized variants.
>>
>> My 2c,
>>
>> David
>>
>>> On 5 May 2017 at 10:37, Grzegorz Grzybek <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's used in:
>>>
>>> 11:34 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' createMessageUtil *|sort|uniq|grep
>> -v
>>>> target
>>>> jndi/jndi-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/Utils.java
>>>> jndi/jndi-rmi/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/rmi/Activator.java
>>>>
>>>> jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/
>>> services/ServiceHelper.java
>>>>
>>>> jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/
>>> BlueprintURLContext.java
>>>>
>>>> jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/
>>> ServiceRegistryContext.java
>>>>
>>>> quiesce/quiesce-manager/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/
>>> quiesce/manager/impl/QuiesceManagerImpl.java
>>>>
>>>> transaction/transaction-manager/src/main/java/org/
>>> apache/aries/transaction/internal/NLS.java
>>>> util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>
>>> So not all aries subprojects use NLS, even if we add:
>>>
>>> 11:35 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' java.util.ResourceBundle
>>>> *|sort|uniq|grep -v target
>>>>
>>>> application/application-deployment-management/src/
>>> main/java/org/apache/aries/application/deployment/
>>> management/impl/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>> application/application-management/src/main/java/org/
>>> apache/aries/application/management/internal/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>> application/application-modeller/src/main/java/org/
>>> apache/aries/application/modelling/internal/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>> application/application-obr-resolver/src/main/java/org/
>>> apache/aries/application/resolver/internal/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>> application/application-utils/src/main/java/org/apache/
>>> aries/application/utils/internal/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>> subsystem/subsystem-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/
>>> subsystem/core/internal/GetSubsystemHeadersAction.java
>>>> util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/
>>> internal/MessageUtil.java
>>>> util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 for removing NLS.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Grzegorz Grzybek
>>>
>>> 2017-05-05 11:33 GMT+02:00 Christian Schneider <chris@die-schneider.net
>>> :
>>>
>>>> In some aries modules we use NLS support to be able to translate
>>> messages.
>>>> I am not aware that this is actually used in practice and I think it is
>>> not
>>>> a good idea to translate technical exception or log messages anyway.
>>>>
>>>> The reason is that we get such exceptions in jiras and it is difficult
>> to
>>>> support uncommon languages in this way.
>>>>
>>>> So I propose we only use english exception and log messages and remove
>>> NLS
>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> WDYT?
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>> http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
Re: [DISCUSS] Policy to only have english error and log messages
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@apache.org>.
Yeah, I fully agree. Searching for non localized messages obviously gives
much better results.
2017-05-05 11:53 GMT+02:00 David Bosschaert <da...@gmail.com>:
> I agree too. Messages such as the ones coming out of Aries components
> should generally not be presented to end users. They are for developers and
> people maintaining the system. They should be able to handle the English
> error, actually it would probably be harder for them to deal with a
> localized error message since web searches and places like stackoverflow
> would probably not have entries for these localized variants.
>
> My 2c,
>
> David
>
> On 5 May 2017 at 10:37, Grzegorz Grzybek <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's used in:
> >
> > 11:34 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' createMessageUtil *|sort|uniq|grep
> -v
> > > target
> > > jndi/jndi-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/Utils.java
> > > jndi/jndi-rmi/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/rmi/Activator.java
> > >
> > > jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/
> > services/ServiceHelper.java
> > >
> > > jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/
> > BlueprintURLContext.java
> > >
> > > jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/
> > ServiceRegistryContext.java
> > >
> > > quiesce/quiesce-manager/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/
> > quiesce/manager/impl/QuiesceManagerImpl.java
> > >
> > > transaction/transaction-manager/src/main/java/org/
> > apache/aries/transaction/internal/NLS.java
> > > util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> >
> > So not all aries subprojects use NLS, even if we add:
> >
> > 11:35 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' java.util.ResourceBundle
> > > *|sort|uniq|grep -v target
> > >
> > > application/application-deployment-management/src/
> > main/java/org/apache/aries/application/deployment/
> > management/impl/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> > > application/application-management/src/main/java/org/
> > apache/aries/application/management/internal/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> > > application/application-modeller/src/main/java/org/
> > apache/aries/application/modelling/internal/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> > > application/application-obr-resolver/src/main/java/org/
> > apache/aries/application/resolver/internal/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> > > application/application-utils/src/main/java/org/apache/
> > aries/application/utils/internal/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> > > subsystem/subsystem-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/
> > subsystem/core/internal/GetSubsystemHeadersAction.java
> > > util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/
> > internal/MessageUtil.java
> > > util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
> > >
> >
> > +1 for removing NLS.
> >
> > regards
> > Grzegorz Grzybek
> >
> > 2017-05-05 11:33 GMT+02:00 Christian Schneider <chris@die-schneider.net
> >:
> >
> > > In some aries modules we use NLS support to be able to translate
> > messages.
> > > I am not aware that this is actually used in practice and I think it is
> > not
> > > a good idea to translate technical exception or log messages anyway.
> > >
> > > The reason is that we get such exceptions in jiras and it is difficult
> to
> > > support uncommon languages in this way.
> > >
> > > So I propose we only use english exception and log messages and remove
> > NLS
> > > support.
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Christian
> > >
> > > --
> > > Christian Schneider
> > > http://www.liquid-reality.de
> > >
> > > Open Source Architect
> > > http://www.talend.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
Re: [DISCUSS] Policy to only have english error and log messages
Posted by David Bosschaert <da...@gmail.com>.
I agree too. Messages such as the ones coming out of Aries components
should generally not be presented to end users. They are for developers and
people maintaining the system. They should be able to handle the English
error, actually it would probably be harder for them to deal with a
localized error message since web searches and places like stackoverflow
would probably not have entries for these localized variants.
My 2c,
David
On 5 May 2017 at 10:37, Grzegorz Grzybek <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's used in:
>
> 11:34 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' createMessageUtil *|sort|uniq|grep -v
> > target
> > jndi/jndi-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/Utils.java
> > jndi/jndi-rmi/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/rmi/Activator.java
> >
> > jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/
> services/ServiceHelper.java
> >
> > jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/
> BlueprintURLContext.java
> >
> > jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/
> ServiceRegistryContext.java
> >
> > quiesce/quiesce-manager/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/
> quiesce/manager/impl/QuiesceManagerImpl.java
> >
> > transaction/transaction-manager/src/main/java/org/
> apache/aries/transaction/internal/NLS.java
> > util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
> >
>
> So not all aries subprojects use NLS, even if we add:
>
> 11:35 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' java.util.ResourceBundle
> > *|sort|uniq|grep -v target
> >
> > application/application-deployment-management/src/
> main/java/org/apache/aries/application/deployment/
> management/impl/MessageUtil.java
> >
> > application/application-management/src/main/java/org/
> apache/aries/application/management/internal/MessageUtil.java
> >
> > application/application-modeller/src/main/java/org/
> apache/aries/application/modelling/internal/MessageUtil.java
> >
> > application/application-obr-resolver/src/main/java/org/
> apache/aries/application/resolver/internal/MessageUtil.java
> >
> > application/application-utils/src/main/java/org/apache/
> aries/application/utils/internal/MessageUtil.java
> >
> > subsystem/subsystem-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/
> subsystem/core/internal/GetSubsystemHeadersAction.java
> > util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/
> internal/MessageUtil.java
> > util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
> >
>
> +1 for removing NLS.
>
> regards
> Grzegorz Grzybek
>
> 2017-05-05 11:33 GMT+02:00 Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>:
>
> > In some aries modules we use NLS support to be able to translate
> messages.
> > I am not aware that this is actually used in practice and I think it is
> not
> > a good idea to translate technical exception or log messages anyway.
> >
> > The reason is that we get such exceptions in jiras and it is difficult to
> > support uncommon languages in this way.
> >
> > So I propose we only use english exception and log messages and remove
> NLS
> > support.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Christian
> >
> > --
> > Christian Schneider
> > http://www.liquid-reality.de
> >
> > Open Source Architect
> > http://www.talend.com
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Policy to only have english error and log messages
Posted by Grzegorz Grzybek <gr...@gmail.com>.
It's used in:
11:34 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' createMessageUtil *|sort|uniq|grep -v
> target
> jndi/jndi-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/Utils.java
> jndi/jndi-rmi/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/rmi/Activator.java
>
> jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/services/ServiceHelper.java
>
> jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/BlueprintURLContext.java
>
> jndi/jndi-url/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/jndi/url/ServiceRegistryContext.java
>
> quiesce/quiesce-manager/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/quiesce/manager/impl/QuiesceManagerImpl.java
>
> transaction/transaction-manager/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/transaction/internal/NLS.java
> util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
>
So not all aries subprojects use NLS, even if we add:
11:35 $ grep -l -r --include='*.java' java.util.ResourceBundle
> *|sort|uniq|grep -v target
>
> application/application-deployment-management/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/application/deployment/management/impl/MessageUtil.java
>
> application/application-management/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/application/management/internal/MessageUtil.java
>
> application/application-modeller/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/application/modelling/internal/MessageUtil.java
>
> application/application-obr-resolver/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/application/resolver/internal/MessageUtil.java
>
> application/application-utils/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/application/utils/internal/MessageUtil.java
>
> subsystem/subsystem-core/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/subsystem/core/internal/GetSubsystemHeadersAction.java
> util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/internal/MessageUtil.java
> util/util-r42/src/main/java/org/apache/aries/util/nls/MessageUtil.java
>
+1 for removing NLS.
regards
Grzegorz Grzybek
2017-05-05 11:33 GMT+02:00 Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>:
> In some aries modules we use NLS support to be able to translate messages.
> I am not aware that this is actually used in practice and I think it is not
> a good idea to translate technical exception or log messages anyway.
>
> The reason is that we get such exceptions in jiras and it is difficult to
> support uncommon languages in this way.
>
> So I propose we only use english exception and log messages and remove NLS
> support.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Christian
>
> --
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> http://www.talend.com
>
>