You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to user@ofbiz.apache.org by Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com> on 2010/09/05 14:06:07 UTC
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better
separate the framework from the higher level applications.
This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the
part they need of the higher applications.
-Bruno
2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>
> I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
> First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> system.
> Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the
> processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
> better than others.
> An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot
> of experience, it can also be model in software.
> So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do
> things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
> The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
> activities.
>
> Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
> The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are
> on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something
> Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system.
>
> Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> project?
> Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
>
> So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its
> relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the
> Screenlet.
> Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most
> of living but is primarily focused on business.
>
> Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen
> as recipes.
>
> I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can
> used in every aspect of our lives.
>
> So I would suggest:
> 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the
> project manager and get feel for what it does.
> 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
>
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
>
>
> Hi BJ,
>>
>> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
>> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
>> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could
>> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
>> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
>> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
>> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Vadim
>> -------------------------------
>> Vadim Eisenberg
>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>
>>
>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>>
>> From:
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net>
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>
>>> Date:
>>>
>>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>>
>>> Subject:
>>>
>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>
>>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
>>>
>> framework.
>>
>>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>>> page 393.
>>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
>>>
>>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
>>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
>>>
>>
>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
>>> sensors were all that was available.
>>>
>>> I say this because of your focus.
>>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>>
>>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>>> automation with in the home.
>>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
>>>
>> home.
>>
>>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>>> enclosed.
>>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
>>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>>
>>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
>>>
>>
>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>>> updated on the fly.
>>>
>>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
>>>
>>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
>>>>
>>> formatting
>>
>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>>
>>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
>>>>
>>> responses
>>
>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
>>>>
>>> sure
>>
>>> of for those responding
>>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>>> people respond with something
>>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
>>>>
>>> information,
>>
>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>>
>>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
>>>>
>>> code
>>
>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
>>>>
>>> would
>>
>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
>>>>
>>> thank BJ
>>
>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
>>>>
>>> and
>>
>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
>>>>
>>> of
>>
>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
>>>>
>>> years
>>
>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
>>>>
>>> field of
>>
>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
>>>>
>>> senior
>>
>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
>>>>
>>> upload
>>
>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
>>>>
>>> important
>>
>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
>>>>
>>> forums
>>
>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
>>>>
>>> there
>>
>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
>>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
>>>>
>>> businesses,
>>
>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
>>>>
>>> reuse
>>
>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
>>>>
>>> possible
>>
>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
>>>>
>>> the
>>
>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
>>>>
>>> (preferably
>>
>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
>>>>
>>> features.
>>
>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
>>>>
>>> including
>>
>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
>>>>
>>> blogs
>>
>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
>>>>
>>> rich
>>
>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>>
>>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
>>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
>>>>
>>> use
>>
>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>> Vadim
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>>
>>>> From:
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To:
>>>>>
>>>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>>
>>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vadim,
>>>>>
>>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>>> to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>>
>>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>>>>
>>>> withclients):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>>>>
>>>> meaningful):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>>>>>
>>>>> answer
>>>>
>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>>>>
>>>>> 3C4C7FFC99.9020109@free-man.net%3E
>>>>>
>>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrong
>>>>
>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
>>>>>>
>>>>> format
>>
>>>
>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>>>>>
>>>>> response
>>>>
>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
>>>>>>
>>>>> idea.
>>
>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ===========================================================================================================
>>
>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>>>>>
>>>>> European
>>>>
>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>>>>>
>>>>> developers
>>>>
>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>>>>
>>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>>
>>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> devices
>>>>
>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>>>>>
>>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz/business
>>
>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>
>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>>>>>
>>>>> actually
>>>>
>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
>>>>>>
>>>>> related
>>
>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz
>>>>
>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement
>>>>>>
>>>>> these
>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-commerce website features:
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>>>>>
>>>>> iPhone)
>>>>
>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>>>>>
>>>>> etc.).
>>>>
>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
>>>>>>
>>>>> buy a
>>>>
>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> others)
>>
>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>>>>>
>>>>> clock,
>>>>
>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
>>>>>>
>>>>> widgets
>>
>>>
>>>> with the OfBiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>>>
>>>>> via the other site
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>>>>>
>>>>> consumers
>>>>
>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>>>>>
>>>>> software
>>>>
>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
>>>>>>
>>>>> part
>>
>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>>>>>
>>>>> between
>>>>
>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>
>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> customers.
>>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
>>>>>>
>>>>> user
>>
>>>
>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>>>>>
>>>>> how
>>>>
>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>>>>>
>>>>> smart
>>>>
>>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> requirements
>>>>
>>>>> of the customer
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> geolocation of
>>>>
>>>>> the customer
>>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>>>>>
>>>>> human
>>>>
>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
>>>>>>
>>>>> administrators
>>
>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>
>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>>>>>
>>>>> context.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Posted by BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>.
short answer is implementation time, coding and maintenance effort.
you talk about bloat, OO is very bloaty(sorry could not resist)
here is a scenario:
when you define an entity
ofbiz updates the Database automatically (does not add or delete columns).
when doing CRUD operation no coding is necessary.
when adding services the minilanq save many Java operation and maintenance.
you define a screen and the entity is updated, you don't have go back to
the screen and modify screen.
Also ofbiz as it stands is ERP capable, however I have some 50
applications that cover many different businesses models (education,
food industry, film industry, Farming, flower shops, charters, airline
ticketing, legal, to name a few). I have disabled many features of ofbiz
since they are not needed.
Hans has in the Trunk, a Travel/reservation demo. This does not use the
ERP as such.
The one short coming of ofbiz is the backend UI, it is not user friendly
or intuitive. There is an ongoing process to fix this.
I resolved this by using SWT that is linked to ofbiz.
=========================
BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/6/2010 9:08 AM:
> BJ, Hans, Bruno,
>
> Thank you for your ideas and clarifications. I wonder, however, why the
> general application framework of OfBiz could be better than other Java EE
> open-source frameworks, such as Spring or JBoss ? I guess the real
> strength of OfBiz are its ERP applications, but I doubt if the whole gamut
> of ERP applications could be used in AAL. Could application framework of
> OfBiz compete with open source frameworks such as Spring or JBoss ?
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
> Bruno Busco<br...@gmail.com> wrote on 05/09/2010 04:30:01 PM:
>
>> From:
>>
>> Bruno Busco<br...@gmail.com>
>>
>> To:
>>
>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>
>> Date:
>>
>> 05/09/2010 04:31 PM
>>
>> Subject:
>>
>> Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>
>> Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic
> applications
>> that allows to manage parties and contents.
>> On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the
>> user.
>> The custom application can leverage all the features the framework
> offers.
>>
>> Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications
> can
>> easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are
> not
>> created.
>> On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications
>> contained in the "Applications" directory because the framework depends
> on
>> them.
>> We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used
>> applications could be installed or even none of them.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg<VA...@il.ibm.com>
>>
>>> Hi Bruno,
>>>
>>> Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a
> general
>>> SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:
>>> Bruno Busco<br...@gmail.com>
>>> To:
>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>> Date:
>>> 05/09/2010 03:06 PM
>>> Subject:
>>> Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to
>>> better
>>> separate the framework from the higher level applications.
>>> This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just
> the
>>> part they need of the higher applications.
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net>
>>>
>>>> I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just
> Ecommerce.
>>>> First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
>>>> system.
>>>> Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs,
> with
>>> the
>>>> processes to deal with the input and create the output.
>>>> To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning,
> some
>>>> better than others.
>>>> An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from
> a
>>> lot
>>>> of experience, it can also be model in software.
>>>> So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used
> to
>>> do
>>>> things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource
> planning.
>>>> The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle
> such
>>>> activities.
>>>>
>>>> Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources
> planning.
>>>> The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
>>>> One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if
> they
>>> are
>>>> on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is
> something
>>>> Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current
>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
>>>> project?
>>>> Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
>>>>
>>>> So lets talk about Ofbiz.
>>>> You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity
> and
>>> its
>>>> relationship then with just a few commands you have that available
> for
>>> the
>>>> Screenlet.
>>>> Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic
> to
>>> most
>>>> of living but is primarily focused on business.
>>>>
>>>> Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
>>>> Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
>>> kitchen
>>>> as recipes.
>>>>
>>>> I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system
> that
>>> can
>>>> used in every aspect of our lives.
>>>>
>>>> So I would suggest:
>>>> 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use
> the
>>>> project manager and get feel for what it does.
>>>> 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and
> tasks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman<http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>
>>>>> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as
> the
>>> core
>>>>> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We
> will
>>>>> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that
> it
>>> could
>>>>> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
>>>>> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms
> of
>>>>> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc..
> The
>>>>> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Vadim
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>>
>>>>>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>>>>>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>>>>>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
>>>>>>
>>>>> framework.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support
> it.
>>>>>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting
> about
>>>>>> page 393.
>>>>>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>>>>>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is
> only
>>>>>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be
>>> developed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded
>>> applications.
>>>>>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used
> compressed
>>> air
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time
>>> proximity
>>>>>> sensors were all that was available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I say this because of your focus.
>>>>>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as
> such,
>>>>>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the
> Home
>>>>>> automation with in the home.
>>>>>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to
> sync
>>>>>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>>>>>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for
> their
>>>>>>
>>>>> home.
>>>>>
>>>>>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is
> all
>>>>>> enclosed.
>>>>>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other
> network
>>>>>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other
>>> systems
>>>>>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services.
> the
>>>>>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>>>>>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a
> restart
>>> if
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can
> be
>>>>>> updated on the fly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new
>>> components.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>>>>>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed
> out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>>>>>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> formatting
>>>>>
>>>>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now
> on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> responses
>>>>>
>>>>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can
> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>
>>>>>> of for those responding
>>>>>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If
> many
>>>>>>> people respond with something
>>>>>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> information,
>>>>>
>>>>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers
> contributing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> code
>>>>>
>>>>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I
> still
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> would
>>>>>
>>>>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in
> the
>>>>>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> thank BJ
>>>>>
>>>>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of
> Research
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a
> consortium
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> years
>>>>>
>>>>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open
> source
>>>>>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> field of
>>>>>
>>>>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> senior
>>>>>
>>>>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>>>>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able
> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> upload
>>>>>
>>>>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that,
> AAL
>>>>>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> important
>>>>>
>>>>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> forums
>>>>>
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development
> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it.
> The
>>>>>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in
> four
>>>>>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended
> by
>>> an
>>>>>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> businesses,
>>>>>
>>>>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> reuse
>>>>>
>>>>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>
>>>>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on
> e-commerce
>>>>>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to
> the
>>>>>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to
> use
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (preferably
>>>>>
>>>>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> features.
>>>>>
>>>>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> including
>>>>>
>>>>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user
> reviews,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> blogs
>>>>>
>>>>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually
> its
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> rich
>>>>>
>>>>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced
> ERP
>>>>>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and
>>> provided
>>>>>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing
> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> use
>>>>>
>>>>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing
> e-commerce
>>>>>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vadim,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>>>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>>>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages
> going
>>>>>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here
> please
>>>>>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and
> the
>>>>>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is
> that
>>>>>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> people
>>>>>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that
> you
>>>>>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>>>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only
> get a
>>>>>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will
> be
>>>>>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>>>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of
> training
>>>>>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a
> good
>>>>>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>>>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study,
> and
>>>>>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it
> usually
>>>>>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>>>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the
> opportunity
>>>>>>>> to work with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who
> has a
>>>>>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>>>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and
> what
>>>>>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>>>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>>>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>>>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws
> and
>>>>>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities
> of
>>>>>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking
> information
>>>>>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those
> products
>>>>>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>>>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>>>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty
> comprehensive
>>>>>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit
> to
>>>>>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data
> structures
>>>>>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system,
> though
>>>>>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>>>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>>>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by
> role
>>>>>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to
> see
>>>>>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if
> there
>>>>>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your
> users
>>>>>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage
> that
>>>>>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the
> system
>>>>>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and
> change
>>>>>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that,
> everything
>>>>>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by
> how
>>>>>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> withclients):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business
> process
>>>>>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been
> refined
>>>>>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories
> in
>>>>>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB
> OFBiz,
>>>>>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> meaningful):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>>>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive
> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>>>>>>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3C4C7FFC99.9020109@free-man.net%3E
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I
> used
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting
> were
>>>>>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> format
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the
> general
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700
> pages
>>>>>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to
> read
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts
> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ===========================================================================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa,
> on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> European
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications,
> services
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart
> Home"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> devices
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we
>>> want
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell
> me
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please
> note
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OfBiz/business
>>>>>
>>>>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very
> much :
>>>>>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all
> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to
> use
>>>>>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would
> be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> related
>>>>>
>>>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a
> ballpark.
>>>>>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn
> about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OfBiz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to
> implement
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> E-commerce website features:
>>>>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> iPhone)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of
> courses
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> etc.).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could
> be
>>>>>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
>>> would
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> buy a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and
> share
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able
> to
>>>>>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> others)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> clock,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> widgets
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with the OfBiz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz
> backed)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>
>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the
> e-commerce
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> via the other site
>>>>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly
> non-OfBiz)
>>>>>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery
> services/sites
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services
> etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such
> as
>>>>>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's
>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements
> as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the
> requirements
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> customers.
>>>>>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to
> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If
> no,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by
> browsers of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of the customer
>>>>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> geolocation of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the customer
>>>>>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and
> changes
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase
> process
>>>>>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software
> and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product
> by
>>>>>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> administrators
>>>>>
>>>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software
> applications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out
> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> context.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Posted by Vadim Eisenberg <VA...@il.ibm.com>.
BJ, Hans, Bruno,
Thank you for your ideas and clarifications. I wonder, however, why the
general application framework of OfBiz could be better than other Java EE
open-source frameworks, such as Spring or JBoss ? I guess the real
strength of OfBiz are its ERP applications, but I doubt if the whole gamut
of ERP applications could be used in AAL. Could application framework of
OfBiz compete with open source frameworks such as Spring or JBoss ?
Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa
Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com> wrote on 05/09/2010 04:30:01 PM:
> From:
>
> Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com>
>
> To:
>
> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>
> Date:
>
> 05/09/2010 04:31 PM
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
> Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic
applications
> that allows to manage parties and contents.
> On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the
> user.
> The custom application can leverage all the features the framework
offers.
>
> Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications
can
> easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are
not
> created.
> On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications
> contained in the "Applications" directory because the framework depends
on
> them.
> We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used
> applications could be installed or even none of them.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg <VA...@il.ibm.com>
>
> > Hi Bruno,
> >
> > Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a
general
> > SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Vadim
> > -------------------------------
> > Vadim Eisenberg
> > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > IBM Research - Haifa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:
> > Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com>
> > To:
> > user@ofbiz.apache.org
> > Date:
> > 05/09/2010 03:06 PM
> > Subject:
> > Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to
> > better
> > separate the framework from the higher level applications.
> > This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just
the
> > part they need of the higher applications.
> > -Bruno
> >
> > 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>
> >
> > > I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just
Ecommerce.
> > > First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> > > system.
> > > Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs,
with
> > the
> > > processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> > > To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning,
some
> > > better than others.
> > > An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from
a
> > lot
> > > of experience, it can also be model in software.
> > > So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used
to
> > do
> > > things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource
planning.
> > > The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle
such
> > > activities.
> > >
> > > Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources
planning.
> > > The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> > > One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if
they
> > are
> > > on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is
something
> > > Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current
> > system.
> > >
> > > Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> > > project?
> > > Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
> > >
> > > So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> > > You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity
and
> > its
> > > relationship then with just a few commands you have that available
for
> > the
> > > Screenlet.
> > > Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic
to
> > most
> > > of living but is primarily focused on business.
> > >
> > > Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> > > Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
> > kitchen
> > > as recipes.
> > >
> > > I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system
that
> > can
> > > used in every aspect of our lives.
> > >
> > > So I would suggest:
> > > 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use
the
> > > project manager and get feel for what it does.
> > > 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and
tasks.
> > >
> > >
> > > =========================
> > > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> > > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <
> > > http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> > > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> > > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> > >
> > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi BJ,
> > >>
> > >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as
the
> > core
> > >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We
will
> > >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that
it
> > could
> > >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
> > >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms
of
> > >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc..
The
> > >> idea is definitely interesting, though.
> > >>
> > >> Best Regards,
> > >> Vadim
> > >> -------------------------------
> > >> Vadim Eisenberg
> > >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> > >> IBM Research - Haifa
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
> > >>
> > >> From:
> > >>>
> > >>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net>
> > >>>
> > >>> To:
> > >>>
> > >>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>> Date:
> > >>>
> > >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
> > >>>
> > >>> Subject:
> > >>>
> > >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> > >>>
> > >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
> > >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
> > >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
> > >>>
> > >> framework.
> > >>
> > >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support
it.
> > >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting
about
> > >>> page 393.
> > >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
> > >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is
only
> > >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be
> > developed.
> > >>>
> > >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded
> > applications.
> > >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used
compressed
> > air
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time
> > proximity
> > >>> sensors were all that was available.
> > >>>
> > >>> I say this because of your focus.
> > >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as
such,
> > >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
> > >>>
> > >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the
Home
> > >>> automation with in the home.
> > >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to
sync
> > >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
> > >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for
their
> > >>>
> > >> home.
> > >>
> > >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is
all
> > >>> enclosed.
> > >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other
network
> > >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other
> > systems
> > >>> to interact with ofbiz.
> > >>>
> > >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services.
the
> > >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
> > >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a
restart
> > if
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can
be
> > >>> updated on the fly.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new
> > components.
> > >>>
> > >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
> > >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed
out.
> > >>>
> > >>> =========================
> > >>>
> > >>> BJ Freeman
> > >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
> > >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> > >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> > >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> > >>>
> > >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> > >>>
> > >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi David,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> > >>>>
> > >>> formatting
> > >>
> > >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now
on.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> > >>>>
> > >>> responses
> > >>
> > >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can
be
> > >>>>
> > >>> sure
> > >>
> > >>> of for those responding
> > >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If
many
> > >>>> people respond with something
> > >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> > >>>>
> > >>> information,
> > >>
> > >>> but usually not otherwise."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers
contributing
> > >>>>
> > >>> code
> > >>
> > >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I
still
> > >>>>
> > >>> would
> > >>
> > >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in
the
> > >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> > >>>>
> > >>> thank BJ
> > >>
> > >>> again for providing his opinions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of
Research
> > >>>>
> > >>> and
> > >>
> > >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a
consortium
> > >>>>
> > >>> of
> > >>
> > >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> > >>>>
> > >>> years
> > >>
> > >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open
source
> > >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> > >>>>
> > >>> field of
> > >>
> > >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> > >>>>
> > >>> senior
> > >>
> > >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> > >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able
to
> > >>>>
> > >>> upload
> > >>
> > >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that,
AAL
> > >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> > >>>>
> > >>> important
> > >>
> > >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> > >>>>
> > >>> forums
> > >>
> > >>> etc.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development
and
> > >>>>
> > >>> there
> > >>
> > >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it.
The
> > >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in
four
> > >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended
by
> > an
> > >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> > >>>>
> > >>> businesses,
> > >>
> > >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> > >>>>
> > >>> reuse
> > >>
> > >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> > >>>>
> > >>> possible
> > >>
> > >>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on
e-commerce
> > >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to
the
> > >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to
use
> > >>>>
> > >>> the
> > >>
> > >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> > >>>>
> > >>> (preferably
> > >>
> > >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> > >>>>
> > >>> features.
> > >>
> > >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> > >>>>
> > >>> including
> > >>
> > >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user
reviews,
> > >>>>
> > >>> blogs
> > >>
> > >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually
its
> > >>>>
> > >>> rich
> > >>
> > >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced
ERP
> > >>>> features of OfBiz.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and
> > provided
> > >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing
the
> > >>>>
> > >>> use
> > >>
> > >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing
e-commerce
> > >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks& Regards,
> > >>>> Vadim
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -------------------------------
> > >>>> Vadim Eisenberg
> > >>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> > >>>> IBM Research - Haifa
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> To:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Date:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Subject:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Vadim,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> > >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> > >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages
going
> > >>>>> through mailing lists every day.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here
please
> > >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and
the
> > >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is
that
> > >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
people
> > >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that
you
> > >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> > >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only
get a
> > >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will
be
> > >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> > >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of
training
> > >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a
good
> > >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> > >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study,
and
> > >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it
usually
> > >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> > >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the
opportunity
> > >>>>> to work with.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who
has a
> > >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
> > >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and
what
> > >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> > >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> > >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> > >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws
and
> > >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities
of
> > >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking
information
> > >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those
products
> > >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> > >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> > >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty
comprehensive
> > >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit
to
> > >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data
structures
> > >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system,
though
> > >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> > >>>>> client will want to use them.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> > >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by
role
> > >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to
see
> > >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if
there
> > >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your
users
> > >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage
that
> > >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the
system
> > >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and
change
> > >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that,
everything
> > >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by
how
> > >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> withclients):
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business
process
> > >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been
refined
> > >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories
in
> > >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB
OFBiz,
> > >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> meaningful):
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> > >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best of luck,
> > >>>>> -David
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive
the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> answer
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
> > >>>>>>
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> 3C4C7FFC99.9020109@free-man.net%3E
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I
used
> > a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> wrong
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting
were
> > >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> format
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> response
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi BJ,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the
general
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> idea.
> > >>
> > >>> I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700
pages
> > >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to
read
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> all
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts
of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
> > >>>>>> Vadim
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My original message:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
>
===========================================================================================================
> > >>
> > >>> Hello OfBiz developers,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa,
on
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>
> > >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> European
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications,
services
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart
Home"
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> developers
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> devices
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we
> > want
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell
me
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> about
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please
note
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> OfBiz/business
> > >>
> > >>> programming are welcome.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very
much :
> > >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all
the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> features
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to
use
> > >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would
be
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> actually
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> related
> > >>
> > >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a
ballpark.
> > >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn
about
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> OfBiz
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to
implement
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> these
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> features
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> E-commerce website features:
> > >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> iPhone)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of
courses
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> etc.).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could
be
> > >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
> > would
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> buy a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and
share
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able
to
> > >>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
> > >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> others)
> > >>
> > >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> clock,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> widgets
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>> with the OfBiz
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
> > >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz
backed)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> site
> > >>
> > >>> -
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> site
> > >>
> > >>> via
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the
e-commerce
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> site
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> via the other site
> > >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly
non-OfBiz)
> > >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery
services/sites
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Adding advanced features:
> > >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> consumers
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services
etc.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> via
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the e-commerce site
> > >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such
as
> > >>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's
> > requirements
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> software
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements
as
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> part
> > >>
> > >>> of
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> between
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the
requirements
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> of
> > >>
> > >>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> customers.
> > >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to
a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> user
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If
no,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> how
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
> > >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by
browsers of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> smart
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> requirements
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> of the customer
> > >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> geolocation of
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the customer
> > >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and
changes
> > in
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase
process
> > >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software
and
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> human
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product
by
> > >>>>>> combining several existing products
> > >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> administrators
> > >>
> > >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software
applications
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> that
> > >>
> > >>> are
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out
of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> context.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Best Regards,
> > >>>>>> Vadim
> > >>>>>> -------------------------------
> > >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
> > >>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> > >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Posted by Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com>.
Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic applications
that allows to manage parties and contents.
On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the
user.
The custom application can leverage all the features the framework offers.
Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications can
easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are not
created.
On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications
contained in the "Applications" directory because the framework depends on
them.
We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used
applications could be installed or even none of them.
-Bruno
2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg <VA...@il.ibm.com>
> Hi Bruno,
>
> Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general
> SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ?
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
>
>
> From:
> Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com>
> To:
> user@ofbiz.apache.org
> Date:
> 05/09/2010 03:06 PM
> Subject:
> Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
>
>
> Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to
> better
> separate the framework from the higher level applications.
> This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the
> part they need of the higher applications.
> -Bruno
>
> 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>
>
> > I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
> > First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> > system.
> > Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with
> the
> > processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> > To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
> > better than others.
> > An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a
> lot
> > of experience, it can also be model in software.
> > So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to
> do
> > things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
> > The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
> > activities.
> >
> > Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
> > The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> > One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they
> are
> > on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something
> > Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current
> system.
> >
> > Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> > project?
> > Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
> >
> > So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> > You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and
> its
> > relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for
> the
> > Screenlet.
> > Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to
> most
> > of living but is primarily focused on business.
> >
> > Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> > Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
> kitchen
> > as recipes.
> >
> > I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that
> can
> > used in every aspect of our lives.
> >
> > So I would suggest:
> > 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the
> > project manager and get feel for what it does.
> > 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.
> >
> >
> > =========================
> > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <
> > http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> >
> > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> >
> >
> >
> > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
> >
> >
> > Hi BJ,
> >>
> >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the
> core
> >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
> >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it
> could
> >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
> >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
> >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
> >> idea is definitely interesting, though.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Vadim
> >> -------------------------------
> >> Vadim Eisenberg
> >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> >> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>
> >>
> >> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
> >>
> >> From:
> >>>
> >>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net>
> >>>
> >>> To:
> >>>
> >>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> Date:
> >>>
> >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
> >>>
> >>> Subject:
> >>>
> >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >>>
> >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
> >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
> >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
> >>>
> >> framework.
> >>
> >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
> >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
> >>> page 393.
> >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
> >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
> >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be
> developed.
> >>>
> >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded
> applications.
> >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed
> air
> >>>
> >>
> >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time
> proximity
> >>> sensors were all that was available.
> >>>
> >>> I say this because of your focus.
> >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
> >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
> >>>
> >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
> >>> automation with in the home.
> >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
> >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
> >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
> >>>
> >> home.
> >>
> >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
> >>> enclosed.
> >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
> >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other
> systems
> >>> to interact with ofbiz.
> >>>
> >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
> >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
> >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart
> if
> >>>
> >>
> >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
> >>> updated on the fly.
> >>>
> >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new
> components.
> >>>
> >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
> >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
> >>>
> >>> =========================
> >>>
> >>> BJ Freeman
> >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
> >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> >>>
> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> >>>
> >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
> >>>
> >>> Hi David,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> >>>>
> >>> formatting
> >>
> >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
> >>>>
> >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> >>>>
> >>> responses
> >>
> >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
> >>>>
> >>> sure
> >>
> >>> of for those responding
> >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> >>>> people respond with something
> >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> >>>>
> >>> information,
> >>
> >>> but usually not otherwise."
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
> >>>>
> >>> code
> >>
> >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
> >>>>
> >>> would
> >>
> >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> >>>>
> >>> thank BJ
> >>
> >>> again for providing his opinions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
> >>>>
> >>> and
> >>
> >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
> >>>>
> >>> of
> >>
> >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> >>>>
> >>> years
> >>
> >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
> >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> >>>>
> >>> field of
> >>
> >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> >>>>
> >>> senior
> >>
> >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
> >>>>
> >>> upload
> >>
> >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> >>>>
> >>> important
> >>
> >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> >>>>
> >>> forums
> >>
> >>> etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
> >>>>
> >>> there
> >>
> >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
> >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by
> an
> >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> >>>>
> >>> businesses,
> >>
> >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> >>>>
> >>> reuse
> >>
> >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> >>>>
> >>> possible
> >>
> >>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>
> >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> >>>>
> >>> (preferably
> >>
> >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> >>>>
> >>> features.
> >>
> >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> >>>>
> >>> including
> >>
> >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
> >>>>
> >>> blogs
> >>
> >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
> >>>>
> >>> rich
> >>
> >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> >>>> features of OfBiz.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and
> provided
> >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
> >>>>
> >>> use
> >>
> >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks& Regards,
> >>>> Vadim
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------------------------
> >>>> Vadim Eisenberg
> >>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> >>>> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> >>>>
> >>>> From:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Date:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subject:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Vadim,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> >>>>> through mailing lists every day.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> >>>>> to work with.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
> >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> >>>>> client will want to use them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> >>>>>
> >>>> withclients):
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> >>>>>
> >>>> meaningful):
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best of luck,
> >>>>> -David
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> answer
> >>>>
> >>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
> >>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> 3C4C7FFC99.9020109@free-man.net%3E
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used
> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> wrong
> >>>>
> >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> format
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> response
> >>>>
> >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi BJ,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> idea.
> >>
> >>> I
> >>>>
> >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> all
> >>>>
> >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
> >>>>>> Vadim
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My original message:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
> ===========================================================================================================
> >>
> >>> Hello OfBiz developers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>
> >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> European
> >>>>
> >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> for
> >>>>
> >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> developers
> >>>>
> >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> devices
> >>>>
> >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we
> want
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> about
> >>>>
> >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> that
> >>>>
> >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> OfBiz/business
> >>
> >>> programming are welcome.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> features
> >>>>
> >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> actually
> >>>>
> >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> related
> >>
> >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> OfBiz
> >>>>
> >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> these
> >>>>
> >>>>> features
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> E-commerce website features:
> >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> iPhone)
> >>>>
> >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> etc.).
> >>>>
> >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
> would
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> buy a
> >>>>
> >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> >>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
> >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> others)
> >>
> >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> clock,
> >>>>
> >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> widgets
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> with the OfBiz
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
> >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> site
> >>
> >>> -
> >>>>
> >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> site
> >>
> >>> via
> >>>>
> >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> site
> >>>>
> >>>>> via the other site
> >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Adding advanced features:
> >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> consumers
> >>>>
> >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> via
> >>>>
> >>>>> the e-commerce site
> >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> >>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's
> requirements
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> software
> >>>>
> >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> part
> >>
> >>> of
> >>>>
> >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> between
> >>>>
> >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> of
> >>
> >>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> customers.
> >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> user
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> how
> >>>>
> >>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
> >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> smart
> >>>>
> >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> requirements
> >>>>
> >>>>> of the customer
> >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> geolocation of
> >>>>
> >>>>> the customer
> >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes
> in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> human
> >>>>
> >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> >>>>>> combining several existing products
> >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> administrators
> >>
> >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> that
> >>
> >>> are
> >>>>
> >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> context.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>> Vadim
> >>>>>> -------------------------------
> >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
> >>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
> >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
>
>
>
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Posted by Vadim Eisenberg <VA...@il.ibm.com>.
Hi Bruno,
Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general
SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ?
Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa
From:
Bruno Busco <br...@gmail.com>
To:
user@ofbiz.apache.org
Date:
05/09/2010 03:06 PM
Subject:
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to
better
separate the framework from the higher level applications.
This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the
part they need of the higher applications.
-Bruno
2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>
> I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
> First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> system.
> Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with
the
> processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
> better than others.
> An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a
lot
> of experience, it can also be model in software.
> So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to
do
> things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
> The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
> activities.
>
> Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
> The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they
are
> on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something
> Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current
system.
>
> Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> project?
> Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
>
> So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and
its
> relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for
the
> Screenlet.
> Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to
most
> of living but is primarily focused on business.
>
> Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
kitchen
> as recipes.
>
> I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that
can
> used in every aspect of our lives.
>
> So I would suggest:
> 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the
> project manager and get feel for what it does.
> 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
>
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
>
>
> Hi BJ,
>>
>> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the
core
>> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
>> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it
could
>> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
>> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
>> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
>> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Vadim
>> -------------------------------
>> Vadim Eisenberg
>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>
>>
>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>>
>> From:
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman<bj...@free-man.net>
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>
>>> Date:
>>>
>>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>>
>>> Subject:
>>>
>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>
>>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
>>>
>> framework.
>>
>>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>>> page 393.
>>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be
developed.
>>>
>>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded
applications.
>>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed
air
>>>
>>
>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time
proximity
>>> sensors were all that was available.
>>>
>>> I say this because of your focus.
>>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>>
>>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>>> automation with in the home.
>>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
>>>
>> home.
>>
>>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>>> enclosed.
>>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other
systems
>>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>>
>>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart
if
>>>
>>
>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>>> updated on the fly.
>>>
>>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new
components.
>>>
>>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
>>>>
>>> formatting
>>
>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>>
>>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
>>>>
>>> responses
>>
>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
>>>>
>>> sure
>>
>>> of for those responding
>>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>>> people respond with something
>>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
>>>>
>>> information,
>>
>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>>
>>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
>>>>
>>> code
>>
>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
>>>>
>>> would
>>
>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
>>>>
>>> thank BJ
>>
>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
>>>>
>>> and
>>
>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
>>>>
>>> of
>>
>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
>>>>
>>> years
>>
>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
>>>>
>>> field of
>>
>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
>>>>
>>> senior
>>
>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
>>>>
>>> upload
>>
>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
>>>>
>>> important
>>
>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
>>>>
>>> forums
>>
>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
>>>>
>>> there
>>
>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by
an
>>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
>>>>
>>> businesses,
>>
>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
>>>>
>>> reuse
>>
>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
>>>>
>>> possible
>>
>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
>>>>
>>> the
>>
>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
>>>>
>>> (preferably
>>
>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
>>>>
>>> features.
>>
>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
>>>>
>>> including
>>
>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
>>>>
>>> blogs
>>
>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
>>>>
>>> rich
>>
>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>>
>>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and
provided
>>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
>>>>
>>> use
>>
>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>> Vadim
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>>
>>>> From:
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones<de...@me.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To:
>>>>>
>>>>> user@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>>
>>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vadim,
>>>>>
>>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>>> to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>>
>>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>>>>
>>>> withclients):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>>>>
>>>> meaningful):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>>>>>
>>>>> answer
>>>>
>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>>>>
>>>>> 3C4C7FFC99.9020109@free-man.net%3E
>>>>>
>>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used
a
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrong
>>>>
>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
>>>>>>
>>>>> format
>>
>>>
>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>>>>>
>>>>> response
>>>>
>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
>>>>>>
>>>>> idea.
>>
>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
===========================================================================================================
>>
>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>>>>>
>>>>> European
>>>>
>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>>>>>
>>>>> developers
>>>>
>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>>>>
>>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>>
>>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> devices
>>>>
>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we
want
>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>>>>>
>>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz/business
>>
>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>
>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>>>>>
>>>>> actually
>>>>
>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
>>>>>>
>>>>> related
>>
>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz
>>>>
>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement
>>>>>>
>>>>> these
>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-commerce website features:
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>>>>>
>>>>> iPhone)
>>>>
>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>>>>>
>>>>> etc.).
>>>>
>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
would
>>>>>>
>>>>> buy a
>>>>
>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> others)
>>
>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>>>>>
>>>>> clock,
>>>>
>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
>>>>>>
>>>>> widgets
>>
>>>
>>>> with the OfBiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>>>
>>>>> via the other site
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>>>>>
>>>>> consumers
>>>>
>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's
requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>>>>>
>>>>> software
>>>>
>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
>>>>>>
>>>>> part
>>
>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>>>>>
>>>>> between
>>>>
>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>
>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> customers.
>>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
>>>>>>
>>>>> user
>>
>>>
>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>>>>>
>>>>> how
>>>>
>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>>>>>
>>>>> smart
>>>>
>>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> requirements
>>>>
>>>>> of the customer
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> geolocation of
>>>>
>>>>> the customer
>>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes
in
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>>>>>
>>>>> human
>>>>
>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
>>>>>>
>>>>> administrators
>>
>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>
>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>>>>>
>>>>> context.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>