couple issues with graduation doc

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

Hey all,

There appears to be some confusion around graduation because the current
doc[1] isn't very clear on the steps the new TLP needs to take.

A big one is that the right INFRA tickets aren't being filed because there
isn't a pointer to the graduation servicedesk[2].

A small one is that it talks about updating www.a.o front page with
obsolete language about templates/blocks/projects.mdtext.

Could somebody fix up the doc?

Thanks,
-g

[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#life-after-graduation
[2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/group/12

Re: couple issues with graduation doc

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 10:52 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Hmm it seems like that's kind of a biggie.  Right now, there's no mention
> > to the graduated project they graduated outside of what secretary sends.
> > Seems like there should be something automated to notify the new PMC that
> > they are in fact a PMC.
>
> I was expecting an email like that just as most PMCs send email to new
> committers/PMC members.
>

It seems Craig has not sent his usual "Welcome to your new role" email for
June (I see April and May).

Or some sort of announcement on the dev list. Only members have access to
> the latest board report until it’s made public.
>

The new Chair should inform the community.

>...

Cheers,
-g

Re: couple issues with graduation doc

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> Hmm it seems like that's kind of a biggie.  Right now, there's no mention
> to the graduated project they graduated outside of what secretary sends.
> Seems like there should be something automated to notify the new PMC that
> they are in fact a PMC.

I was expecting an email like that just as most PMCs send email to new committers/PMC members.

Or some sort of announcement on the dev list. Only members have access to the latest board report until it’s made public.

> Unincubate never happens.  I've taken care of the last 6, either by
> repeatedly emailing the TLPs or doing it myself.  I'm inclined to make
> unincubate (via status file and podlings.xml) a chair responsibility.

Seems like the first job a new chair should do.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: couple issues with graduation doc

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 11:08 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 9:55 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Greg,
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 6:04 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > There appears to be some confusion around graduation because the
> current
> > > doc[1] isn't very clear on the steps the new TLP needs to take.
> > >
> > > A big one is that the right INFRA tickets aren't being filed because
> > there
> > > isn't a pointer to the graduation servicedesk[2].
> > >
> >
> > From your POV, who is actually supposed to submit those tickets and when?
> > I had assumed the "Congratulations on your new role" email was the
> trigger
> > point, but that none of this should be done until a director presses the
> > button.
> >
>
> I would suggest anyone from the newly-graduated PMC should submit those
> tickets. We can easily de-dup if the PMC didn't deconflict on who would
> take point.
>
> The email you note is sent by the Secretary. Nominally, the Secretary also
> "presses the button" that informs Infra that X and Y have graduated, but
> that automated plumbing is a bit broken at the moment. No biggy, as Infra
> is always at the meetings, so we know who graduated (or not).
>
>
Hmm it seems like that's kind of a biggie.  Right now, there's no mention
to the graduated project they graduated outside of what secretary sends.
Seems like there should be something automated to notify the new PMC that
they are in fact a PMC.


> We do not expect the Secretary or Infra to file the graduation tickets.
> That is and has always been left to the community and its decision of
> timing.
>

Agreed.


>
> (a separate matter is de-incubation, which is out of our hands, and I would
> suggest is up to the IPMC to set policy, even against the timing wishes of
> the new TLP)
>

Unincubate never happens.  I've taken care of the last 6, either by
repeatedly emailing the TLPs or doing it myself.  I'm inclined to make
unincubate (via status file and podlings.xml) a chair responsibility.


>
> > A small one is that it talks about updating www.a.o front page with
> > > obsolete language about templates/blocks/projects.mdtext.
> > >
> > >
> > What page is that?
> >
>
> Same page [1].
>
> More specifically:
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#transfer ... item 3.2.
>

So, that whole block just goes?  3.1.2 seems not needed either.  It seems
like a lot of those sections are irrelevant since podlings are effectively
TLPs with double host names (podling.a.o and podling.i.a.o).  None of that
stuff moves.

I do think we need a section on how to create the TLP request ticket.


>
> And I just realized that item 6 is wrong, as we just went through this
> today for another TLP. Infra will "svn mv" the dev/release areas from
> dist/incubator/ to dist/${TLP}/ ... so no cleanup is needed since it is
> moved.
>
> > Could somebody fix up the doc?
>

I created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-202 to track.
I'm not going to do any more maintenance on the current website, planning
to instead cut over to the new one and make enhancements there.


> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > -g
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#life-after-graduation
> > > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/
> > portal/1/group/12
> > >
> >
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>

Re: couple issues with graduation doc

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 9:55 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
wrote:

> Greg,
>
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 6:04 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > There appears to be some confusion around graduation because the current
> > doc[1] isn't very clear on the steps the new TLP needs to take.
> >
> > A big one is that the right INFRA tickets aren't being filed because
> there
> > isn't a pointer to the graduation servicedesk[2].
> >
>
> From your POV, who is actually supposed to submit those tickets and when?
> I had assumed the "Congratulations on your new role" email was the trigger
> point, but that none of this should be done until a director presses the
> button.
>

I would suggest anyone from the newly-graduated PMC should submit those
tickets. We can easily de-dup if the PMC didn't deconflict on who would
take point.

The email you note is sent by the Secretary. Nominally, the Secretary also
"presses the button" that informs Infra that X and Y have graduated, but
that automated plumbing is a bit broken at the moment. No biggy, as Infra
is always at the meetings, so we know who graduated (or not).

We do not expect the Secretary or Infra to file the graduation tickets.
That is and has always been left to the community and its decision of
timing.

(a separate matter is de-incubation, which is out of our hands, and I would
suggest is up to the IPMC to set policy, even against the timing wishes of
the new TLP)

> A small one is that it talks about updating www.a.o front page with
> > obsolete language about templates/blocks/projects.mdtext.
> >
> >
> What page is that?
>

Same page [1].

More specifically:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#transfer ... item 3.2.

And I just realized that item 6 is wrong, as we just went through this
today for another TLP. Infra will "svn mv" the dev/release areas from
dist/incubator/ to dist/${TLP}/ ... so no cleanup is needed since it is
moved.

> Could somebody fix up the doc?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -g
> >
> > [1]
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#life-after-graduation
> > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/
> portal/1/group/12
> >
>

Cheers,
-g

Re: couple issues with graduation doc

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

Greg,

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 6:04 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> There appears to be some confusion around graduation because the current
> doc[1] isn't very clear on the steps the new TLP needs to take.
>
> A big one is that the right INFRA tickets aren't being filed because there
> isn't a pointer to the graduation servicedesk[2].
>

From your POV, who is actually supposed to submit those tickets and when?
I had assumed the "Congratulations on your new role" email was the trigger
point, but that none of this should be done until a director presses the
button.


>
> A small one is that it talks about updating www.a.o front page with
> obsolete language about templates/blocks/projects.mdtext.
>
>
What page is that?


> Could somebody fix up the doc?
>
> Thanks,
> -g
>
> [1]
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#life-after-graduation
> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/group/12
>