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Posted to community@apache.org by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> on 2002/10/26 16:20:26 UTC
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Mr Ship,
I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
feel the same as I on this).
The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different
people feel
differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
however most folks I've
spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a
first step not
later. Dion and I have both committed to helping you with this
transition (though I don't
think he ever stated so publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to
subscribe to the tapestry
list if you desire and help you build the structure.
The steps as I see them:
1. Adopt apache voting rules
2. Vote to join and relicense (in one swoop)
3. Submit a formal proposal
4. You're in
The challenges ahead are:
1. Apache: figure out what the procedure is that you will join under
(my position is it doesn't matter as long as things are relaxed on
you because we wanted
to try something out and that things aren't full of extra hurdles
because the procedure is
in transition)
2. Tapestry: Find your voting committers, reorganize yourself into a
meritocratic structure
3. All: Patience and due dilligence.
Me & Dion
1. Find a sponsoring member
2. Assist you in reorganizing
3. Assist you in your propoasal
4. Make our case
5. Assist you in getting your sources/structures here.
Thats as clearly as i can lay it out. Hopefully others will chime in
constructively and clear up anything I got wrong or is fuzzy ;-)
-Andy
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>On 26/10/02 15:01, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hl...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover as far as
>>publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List. What is the next step?
>>
>>So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of positive
>>ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)). I could
>>summarize in more detail if that would be helpful. Obviously, the PMC
>>hasn't really weighed in. Again, what next?
>>
>>
>
>Not being a committer to any of the Jakarta projects, and not being a PMC
>member, I can't say much on this, but from a general feeling that I gather
>from different parts of the foundation, I would say that _right_now_ the
>timing is not that great because of the "big reorg" going around ASF wide.
>
>But the decision is left to the Jakarta committers and PMC members...
>
> Pier
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Awesome. Thanks Erik. You're like a pillar of the Java side of Apache
and I mean that.
And you write a nice book too ;-)
-Andy
Erik Hatcher wrote:
> Count me in for providing whatever assistance I can spare for helping
> Tapestry join Jakarta. Just ping me and let me know what if anything
> I can do to help.
>
> Erik
>
>
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>
>> Mr Ship,
>>
>> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here
>> will feel the same as I on this). The opinion of Tapestry joining is
>> very good.
>> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So
>> different people feel
>> differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
>> however most folks I've
>> spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a
>> first step not
>> later. Dion and I have both committed to helping you with this
>> transition (though I don't
>> think he ever stated so publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to
>> subscribe to the tapestry
>> list if you desire and help you build the structure.
>>
>> The steps as I see them:
>>
>> 1. Adopt apache voting rules
>> 2. Vote to join and relicense (in one swoop)
>> 3. Submit a formal proposal
>> 4. You're in
>>
>> The challenges ahead are:
>> 1. Apache: figure out what the procedure is that you will join under
>> (my position is it doesn't matter as long as things are relaxed
>> on you because we wanted
>> to try something out and that things aren't full of extra
>> hurdles because the procedure is
>> in transition)
>> 2. Tapestry: Find your voting committers, reorganize yourself into a
>> meritocratic structure
>> 3. All: Patience and due dilligence.
>>
>> Me & Dion
>> 1. Find a sponsoring member
>> 2. Assist you in reorganizing
>> 3. Assist you in your propoasal
>> 4. Make our case
>> 5. Assist you in getting your sources/structures here.
>>
>> Thats as clearly as i can lay it out. Hopefully others will chime in
>> constructively and clear up anything I got wrong or is fuzzy ;-)
>>
>> -Andy
>>
>> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/10/02 15:01, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hl...@attbi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover
>>>> as far as
>>>> publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List. What is the
>>>> next step?
>>>>
>>>> So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of
>>>> positive
>>>> ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)).
>>>> I could
>>>> summarize in more detail if that would be helpful. Obviously, the PMC
>>>> hasn't really weighed in. Again, what next?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not being a committer to any of the Jakarta projects, and not being
>>> a PMC
>>> member, I can't say much on this, but from a general feeling that I
>>> gather
>>> from different parts of the foundation, I would say that _right_now_
>>> the
>>> timing is not that great because of the "big reorg" going around ASF
>>> wide.
>>>
>>> But the decision is left to the Jakarta committers and PMC members...
>>>
>>> Pier
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Erik Hatcher <er...@ehatchersolutions.com>.
Count me in for providing whatever assistance I can spare for helping
Tapestry join Jakarta. Just ping me and let me know what if anything I
can do to help.
Erik
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Mr Ship,
>
> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this). The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different
> people feel
> differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
> however most folks I've
> spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a
> first step not
> later. Dion and I have both committed to helping you with this
> transition (though I don't
> think he ever stated so publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to
> subscribe to the tapestry
> list if you desire and help you build the structure.
>
> The steps as I see them:
>
> 1. Adopt apache voting rules
> 2. Vote to join and relicense (in one swoop)
> 3. Submit a formal proposal
> 4. You're in
>
> The challenges ahead are:
> 1. Apache: figure out what the procedure is that you will join under
> (my position is it doesn't matter as long as things are relaxed on
> you because we wanted
> to try something out and that things aren't full of extra hurdles
> because the procedure is
> in transition)
> 2. Tapestry: Find your voting committers, reorganize yourself into a
> meritocratic structure
> 3. All: Patience and due dilligence.
>
> Me & Dion
> 1. Find a sponsoring member
> 2. Assist you in reorganizing
> 3. Assist you in your propoasal
> 4. Make our case
> 5. Assist you in getting your sources/structures here.
>
> Thats as clearly as i can lay it out. Hopefully others will chime in
> constructively and clear up anything I got wrong or is fuzzy ;-)
>
> -Andy
>
> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
>> On 26/10/02 15:01, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hl...@attbi.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover as
>>> far as
>>> publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List. What is the next
>>> step?
>>>
>>> So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of positive
>>> ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)). I
>>> could
>>> summarize in more detail if that would be helpful. Obviously, the PMC
>>> hasn't really weighed in. Again, what next?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Not being a committer to any of the Jakarta projects, and not being a PMC
>> member, I can't say much on this, but from a general feeling that I gather
>> from different parts of the foundation, I would say that _right_now_ the
>> timing is not that great because of the "big reorg" going around ASF wide.
>>
>> But the decision is left to the Jakarta committers and PMC members...
>>
>> Pier
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
> Jakarta could vote right now, but the LGPL issue alone gives me the
> whillies. And it would be hard to get a 3/4 majority with my -1.
Its not a problem, they plan to change their licensing. So I didn't see
this as an issue. I figured that was one of the first things they could
vote on.
>
> The incubator will forward the code base to the appropriate home. Ken
> has indicated that Jakarta could be the right home. But we will never
> know until the process gets started.
Okay, I'd rather have some plan of action, but if we must put the issue
off, I suppose its okay. Just let everyone involved commit not to put
the project in the Limbo of Apache catch 22-ism.. . Its sooo frustrating
when that happens for everyone involved. And it breeds fear, and fear
leads to hatred..... ;-)
-andy
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>
>> WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>>
> From reading this incubator.apache.org I would say the incubator.
> However I think that makes it a top level project. Otherwise its jakarta.
Jakarta could vote right now, but the LGPL issue alone gives me the
whillies. And it would be hard to get a 3/4 majority with my -1.
The incubator will forward the code base to the appropriate home. Ken
has indicated that Jakarta could be the right home. But we will never
know until the process gets started.
- Sam Ruby
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Doug Bateman wrote:
>Was there any final resolution to this thread? I imagine any PMC
>vote would be announced to this list?
>
>
>
So, I think everyone kind of agreed it needed to bake a little longer.
So here is a status update.
Tapestry has:
1. Adopted Apache Voting rules
2. Ratified a core set of committers
3. Voted (but not yet implemented) to relicense under ASL
4. Created a seperate list for "committers"...
(slightly confusing but tapestry-contrib@lists.sourceforge.net is
for committers and
tapestry-developer@lists.sourceforge.net is for users) They
plan to use a more standard
naming convention when they are accepted
Dion, and Myself are helping them make the transition and Ken Coar has
agreed to be our member-sponsor.
Yet to be resolved:
1. Incubate or not?
2. Jakarta or Top-level (they prefer Jakarta and I feel thats probably a
better idea too)
Following this we'll make a proposal matching whatever the system for
acceptance becomes and I'm pretty sure they'll be accepted. They're a
great community, a friendly good-natured bunch of guys (please don't
hurt them ;-) ) and they are adapting well to the process.
If anyone else would like to help, please feel free!
-Andy
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Doug Bateman wrote:
>Was there any final resolution to this thread? I imagine any PMC
>vote would be announced to this list?
>
>
>
So, I think everyone kind of agreed it needed to bake a little longer.
So here is a status update.
Tapestry has:
1. Adopted Apache Voting rules
2. Ratified a core set of committers
3. Voted (but not yet implemented) to relicense under ASL
4. Created a seperate list for "committers"...
(slightly confusing but tapestry-contrib@lists.sourceforge.net is
for committers and
tapestry-developer@lists.sourceforge.net is for users) They
plan to use a more standard
naming convention when they are accepted
Dion, and Myself are helping them make the transition and Ken Coar has
agreed to be our member-sponsor.
Yet to be resolved:
1. Incubate or not?
2. Jakarta or Top-level (they prefer Jakarta and I feel thats probably a
better idea too)
Following this we'll make a proposal matching whatever the system for
acceptance becomes and I'm pretty sure they'll be accepted. They're a
great community, a friendly good-natured bunch of guys (please don't
hurt them ;-) ) and they are adapting well to the process.
If anyone else would like to help, please feel free!
-Andy
--
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Doug Bateman <do...@techie.net>.
Was there any final resolution to this thread? I imagine any PMC
vote would be announced to this list?
--
Man is unjust, but God is just; and finally justice
Triumphs.
Longfellow (1807-1882)
American Poet
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
>>
>>For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority
>>of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help
>>with the licensing issues and community issues.
>>
>>I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people
>>motivated to make this work.
>>
>>
>
>WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>
>
From reading this incubator.apache.org I would say the incubator.
However I think that makes it a top level project. Otherwise its
jakarta.
Personally, I don't give a rat's behind to be honest.
Back when I was in college (which I dropped out of to catch most of the
Boom...thank god or I'd have graduated in time for the bust with no
experience!)... I had this misfortune of being on the Student
Government (ours was called something else which escapes memory because
it was appointed...basically anyone who wanted to actually be on it
could be). Well we were funded to and went to the State (or was it
regional....? It was in tallahassee that part I do remember.) meeting
of these. The agenda was very simple and easy and could have been done
in a 15 minute meeting had there not been a contingent who determined to
fillibuster 2 days worth of talk with their mastery of the Robert's
rules of order. You see they debated the procedures and the such until
the last hour when the board finally told them to sit down and shut up
(which I'm sure violated page something or other) and we managed to pass
one miniscule resolution of something stupid or other.
While the procedure and all that is very interesting and is important
for the future of apache, it is not *particularly* important in the
scope of accepting tapestry. As long as there are "do-ers", it meets
the guidelines for community, etc -- and there is a certain amount of
good will, what is destined to be for the better will happen. Maybe the
project won't organize itself properly...maybe they'll not make the
cut...I think they will, but regardless.
Or we can be like the florida something or other board of student
governments and fillibuster ourselves to death over procedure, all get
ticked off and argue until the apopcalypse...
I would prefer the former rather than the latter but I'm a crazy
man...so what do I know. (Plus I've had an enormous chimichanga and a
pint of Dos Equis...so I'm prone to be more democratically philisophical
about things...)
-andy
> Pier (dumb)
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
>>
>>For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority
>>of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help
>>with the licensing issues and community issues.
>>
>>I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people
>>motivated to make this work.
>>
>>
>
>WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>
>
From reading this incubator.apache.org I would say the incubator.
However I think that makes it a top level project. Otherwise its
jakarta.
Personally, I don't give a rat's behind to be honest.
Back when I was in college (which I dropped out of to catch most of the
Boom...thank god or I'd have graduated in time for the bust with no
experience!)... I had this misfortune of being on the Student
Government (ours was called something else which escapes memory because
it was appointed...basically anyone who wanted to actually be on it
could be). Well we were funded to and went to the State (or was it
regional....? It was in tallahassee that part I do remember.) meeting
of these. The agenda was very simple and easy and could have been done
in a 15 minute meeting had there not been a contingent who determined to
fillibuster 2 days worth of talk with their mastery of the Robert's
rules of order. You see they debated the procedures and the such until
the last hour when the board finally told them to sit down and shut up
(which I'm sure violated page something or other) and we managed to pass
one miniscule resolution of something stupid or other.
While the procedure and all that is very interesting and is important
for the future of apache, it is not *particularly* important in the
scope of accepting tapestry. As long as there are "do-ers", it meets
the guidelines for community, etc -- and there is a certain amount of
good will, what is destined to be for the better will happen. Maybe the
project won't organize itself properly...maybe they'll not make the
cut...I think they will, but regardless.
Or we can be like the florida something or other board of student
governments and fillibuster ourselves to death over procedure, all get
ticked off and argue until the apopcalypse...
I would prefer the former rather than the latter but I'm a crazy
man...so what do I know. (Plus I've had an enormous chimichanga and a
pint of Dos Equis...so I'm prone to be more democratically philisophical
about things...)
-andy
> Pier (dumb)
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 26/10/02 19:25, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@apache.org> wrote:
> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>>
>> WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
>
> For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority
> of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help
> with the licensing issues and community issues.
>
> I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people
> motivated to make this work.
WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
Pier (dumb)
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
> Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
> (and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
> president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
>
> As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
> member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
> from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority
of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help
with the licensing issues and community issues.
I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people
motivated to make this work.
- Sam Ruby
--
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
<snip descrption="left only the stuff I liked because a man hears what
he wants to hear and disregards the rest...hum.mmm.humm"/> <!--
thinking of that street musician guy -->
>let's be positive... As I said, I can't claim right anywhere, so, after
>expressing my doubts, I will shut up.
>
>
Why no you certainly can! Lend a hand, we'd value your experience,
knowledge and good judgement! Lend us a hand and you'll have all the
license you need :-)
-Andy
> Pier
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 26/10/02 16:10, "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
> relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking
> about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to
> insults...hehe ;-) ). I'm committed to avoiding the Apache "the land of
> Catch-22s" Syndrome.. We'll get there.
>
>> As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
>> member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
>> from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>>
> little details... We'll work them out. Lets be positive :-)
Experience and history tell me that those are not "little" details, but
let's be positive... As I said, I can't claim right anywhere, so, after
expressing my doubts, I will shut up.
Pier
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 26/10/02 16:10, "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
> relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking
> about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to
> insults...hehe ;-) ). I'm committed to avoiding the Apache "the land of
> Catch-22s" Syndrome.. We'll get there.
>
>> As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
>> member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
>> from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>>
> little details... We'll work them out. Lets be positive :-)
Experience and history tell me that those are not "little" details, but
let's be positive... As I said, I can't claim right anywhere, so, after
expressing my doubts, I will shut up.
Pier
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
>(and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
>president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
>
>
So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking
about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to
insults...hehe ;-) ). I'm committed to avoiding the Apache "the land of
Catch-22s" Syndrome.. We'll get there.
>As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
>member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
>from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>
>
little details... We'll work them out. Lets be positive :-)
>I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and
>that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry,
>or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere...
>
>
No the timing is perfect. The timing to work with them to bring them
into the fold. The completion of this task requires hard work
dedication and committment. The great news is these are parallel tasks.
Tapestry can adopt apache voting rules while we mold the pottery with
our flames (j/k) over here! Isn't this good stuff? I think so. (but
then again I'm very strange)
Lets not inundate them with details, lets just be helpful. Who's with us?
-Andy
> Pier
>
>
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>
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
>(and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
>president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
>
>
So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking
about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to
insults...hehe ;-) ). I'm committed to avoiding the Apache "the land of
Catch-22s" Syndrome.. We'll get there.
>As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
>member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
>from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>
>
little details... We'll work them out. Lets be positive :-)
>I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and
>that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry,
>or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere...
>
>
No the timing is perfect. The timing to work with them to bring them
into the fold. The completion of this task requires hard work
dedication and committment. The great news is these are parallel tasks.
Tapestry can adopt apache voting rules while we mold the pottery with
our flames (j/k) over here! Isn't this good stuff? I think so. (but
then again I'm very strange)
Lets not inundate them with details, lets just be helpful. Who's with us?
-Andy
> Pier
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
> Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
> (and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
> president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
>
> As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
> member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
> from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority
of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help
with the licensing issues and community issues.
I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people
motivated to make this work.
- Sam Ruby
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 26/10/02 15:20, "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this).
>
> The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
>
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different
> people feel differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
> however most folks I've spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must
> be adopted as a first step not later. Dion and I have both committed to
> helping you with this transition (though I don't think he ever stated so
> publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to subscribe to the tapestry list if
> you desire and help you build the structure.
I don't quite understand on what you disagree... I remain in the position of
doubt, I agree completely that (quote) "the Apache voting rules must be
adopted as a first step not later", as I always believed that our voting
system is the key, but Sam (your Jakarta PMC president) is saying:
On 26/10/02 15:12, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I'm +1 overall, but as Peter aluded to previously there are some
> mechanics to be worked out. This has nothing directly to do with your
> proposal, merely that there is a new "incubator" committee which is in
> the process of forming, and a strong desire for this to be used for
> contributions such as these.
>
> So, in other words, you may very well get to be a guinee pig. Whee!
>
> For a peek into the current status, see http://incubator.apache.org/
Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
(and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and
that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry,
or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere...
Pier
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
"Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote on 27/10/2002 12:20:26 AM:
> Mr Ship,
>
> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this).
> The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different
> people feel
> differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
> however most folks I've
> spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a
> first step not
> later. Dion and I have both committed to helping you with this
> transition (though I don't
> think he ever stated so publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to
This counts as publicly volunteering :)
> subscribe to the tapestry
> list if you desire and help you build the structure.
>
> The steps as I see them:
>
> 1. Adopt apache voting rules
> 2. Vote to join and relicense (in one swoop)
> 3. Submit a formal proposal
3a. PMC confers
> 4. You're in
[snip]
> Me & Dion
> 1. Find a sponsoring member
> 2. Assist you in reorganizing
> 3. Assist you in your propoasal
> 4. Make our case
> 5. Assist you in getting your sources/structures here.
6. Assist in liaising with incubator
7. Assist in 'The Apache Way' details.
> Thats as clearly as i can lay it out. Hopefully others will chime in
> constructively and clear up anything I got wrong or is fuzzy ;-)
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 26/10/02 15:20, "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this).
>
> The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
>
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different
> people feel differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
> however most folks I've spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must
> be adopted as a first step not later. Dion and I have both committed to
> helping you with this transition (though I don't think he ever stated so
> publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to subscribe to the tapestry list if
> you desire and help you build the structure.
I don't quite understand on what you disagree... I remain in the position of
doubt, I agree completely that (quote) "the Apache voting rules must be
adopted as a first step not later", as I always believed that our voting
system is the key, but Sam (your Jakarta PMC president) is saying:
On 26/10/02 15:12, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I'm +1 overall, but as Peter aluded to previously there are some
> mechanics to be worked out. This has nothing directly to do with your
> proposal, merely that there is a new "incubator" committee which is in
> the process of forming, and a strong desire for this to be used for
> contributions such as these.
>
> So, in other words, you may very well get to be a guinee pig. Whee!
>
> For a peek into the current status, see http://incubator.apache.org/
Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
(and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and
that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry,
or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere...
Pier