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Posted to dev@velocity.apache.org by Nathan Bubna <na...@esha.com> on 2002/04/24 23:28:38 UTC
[VelTools] Re: recent commits
Gabe committed:
> sidler 02/04/15 11:30:30
>
> Modified: . README.txt build.xml
> struts README.txt
> struts/examples/struts index.html
> struts/examples/struts/WEB-INF/lib
> velocity-tools-library-0.1.jar
> velocity-tools-view-0.6.jar
> struts/examples/struts/WEB-INF/src/examples/app2
> DemoAction.java
> struts/examples/struts/doc examples.html
> struts/examples/struts/examples/context_tools
> mathtool-demo.txt mathtool-demo.vm
> struts/examples/struts/examples/struts_app2 tool-demo.txt
> tool-demo.vm
> struts/lib velocity-tools-view-0.6.jar
> struts/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/struts
> ErrorsTool.java FormTool.java LinkTool.java
> MessageTool.java StrutsUtils.java package.html
> struts/xdocs index.xml menue.xml tools.xml userguide.xml
> tools README.txt
> tools/lib velocity-tools-view-0.6.jar
> tools/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/tools
DateTool.java
> MathTool.java ParameterParser.java ToolLoader.java
> package.html
> tools/xdocs ParameterParser.xml ToolLoader.xml
> view README.txt
> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/context
> ChainedContext.java ToolboxContext.java
> ViewContext.java
> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/i18n
> MultiViewsTool.java
> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/servlet
> ServletToolboxManager.java
> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/tools
> package.html
> view/xdocs velservlet.xml
> xdocs index.xml site.dvsl vellibrary.xml
> Added: view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/servlet
> ServletViewToolLogger.java
> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/tools
> ContextViewTool.java LogEnabledViewTool.java
> LogEnabledViewToolImpl.java ServletViewTool.java
> ThreadSafeViewTool.java ViewToolLogger.java
> Removed: view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/servlet
> ServletContextToolLogger.java
> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/tools
> ContextContextTool.java ContextToolLogger.java
> LogEnabledContextTool.java
> LogEnabledContextToolImpl.java
> ServletContextTool.java ThreadSafeContextTool.java
> Log:
> Replaced the term "context tool" by "view tool" in the documentation and
> source.
Gabe,
At the risk of repeating myself and others...
Please, please make your commits incremental, and (even more importantly)
get a consensus before you do so. This exactly the kind of open source
behavior that Jakarta Apache projects do *not* desire or encourage!
>From Jakarta's "Our Mission" page: "The Apache projects are characterized
by a collaborative, consensus based development process..."
This last change (and others) you've made had absolutely NO consensus from
users or developers. I'm on both lists and saw exactly zero discussion or
agreement on this naming change. This is something I had meant to address
this last week, but was rather busy at work. Well, for whatever it's worth
now, i'm opposed to these name changes.
I'm not ready to give up on this project yet, but i'm certainly being pushed
in that direction by this kind of behavior. I was quite optimistic after
how well the struts tools development went, but have become increasingly
frustrated by your unilateral decisions and commits since that time.
Now, I intend to go through your recent changes and comment as specifically
as i can on the problems I see. In the meantime, I would appreciate if you
would be so kind as to explain your recent class name changes and the
motives behind them.
Nathan Bubna
nathan@esha.com
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Re: [VelTools] Re: recent commits
Posted by Nathan Bubna <na...@esha.com>.
Gabe said:
> First, the change was that I replaced the term "context tool" by "view
tool".
> I was prompted to do this while I worked on the documentation. The reasons
> are these:
>
> - "view tool" is more accurately describing the tools that we use in the
> view layer. They are not specific or dependent on the Velocity context
> but can be used very well with different view technologies.
I personally find "context tool" to be the better term, because it indicates
that the tool is placed/found in the context.
> - I noticed that the term "context tool" is not very wide-spread. People
are
> more familiar with "view helper" or "view tool". "view helper" was too
> chicky for my taste. Therefore, I went with "view tool".
Changing an API that is in use by others based merely on personal taste
without any discussion or consensus is not prudent. You would find me
drastically more open to such changes if you gave me warning and an
opportunity for dissent.
> - Since "context" also has a meaning in the Servlet world, "view tool"
avoids
> some of the ambiguities that we ran into.
both "context" and "view" have meanings in a variety of situations, this is
a non sequitur.
Nathan Bubna
nathan@esha.com
--
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Re: [VelTools] Re: recent commits
Posted by Gabriel Sidler <si...@teamup.ch>.
Nathan Bubna wrote:
...
> Now, I intend to go through your recent changes and comment as specifically
> as i can on the problems I see. In the meantime, I would appreciate if you
> would be so kind as to explain your recent class name changes and the
> motives behind them.
First, the change was that I replaced the term "context tool" by "view tool".
I was prompted to do this while I worked on the documentation. The reasons
are these:
- "view tool" is more accurately describing the tools that we use in the
view layer. They are not specific or dependent on the Velocity context
but can be used very well with different view technologies.
- I noticed that the term "context tool" is not very wide-spread. People are
more familiar with "view helper" or "view tool". "view helper" was too
chicky for my taste. Therefore, I went with "view tool".
- Since "context" also has a meaning in the Servlet world, "view tool" avoids
some of the ambiguities that we ran into.
Gabe
--
Gabriel Sidler
Software Engineer, Eivycom GmbH, Zurich, Switzerland
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: [VelTools] Re: recent commits
Posted by Nathan Bubna <na...@esha.com>.
Gabe said:
> All my recent commits have been small and smallest steps. The requirement
> is obviously that the repository is never inconsistent.
*Never* is not a requirement. It is very easy and acceptable to make
multiple consecutive changes that cause the repository to be inconsistent
for just a few moments. When you go through and change all documentation
and code simultaneously, the commit message becomes huge and difficult to
follow.
> A small change
> can sometimes lead to a large number of changed files. The commit message
> you quoted above has been a simple change in terminology that I applied to
> all files. I don't see how it makes sense to break down such a commit
> into smaller chunks.
Here's a simple way to start. First commit code changes, then right after
that commit the doc changes. That should be easy enough.
[snip]
> > This last change (and others) you've made had absolutely NO consensus
from
> > users or developers. I'm on both lists and saw exactly zero discussion
or
> > agreement on this naming change.
>
> This is really unfounded! I can't be in the spirit of open source projects
> that every little change needs an explicit discussion and approval.
Sorry, but there was really no warning concerning the change of all tool
interfaces to be "view tools" instead of "context tools". Seriously, if I
am wrong on that, please point me to the relevant email(s) so I can see
that, don't just say I'm wrong.
Further, this was not a minor change! you significantly altered the API.
Minor changes are changes to documentation or small implementation changes.
API changes are rarely minor, and this was not such a case. Even if you are
unwilling to seek consensus on something like this, please give warning
ahead of time so that those who disagree with the change have at least an
opportunity to voice opposition before the change is made.
> Regarding this particular case: I would like to emphasize that we had
> an extensive discussion about the next steps. I have summarized the
> discussion and clearly announced to the list what my next planned steps
> are. See
> http://www.mail-archive.com/velocity-dev@jakarta.apache.org/msg05863.html
Yes, i've read that email, and I still have it in my mail folders. But I
saw no discussion of the change from "context tools" to "view tools".
Frankly, I think it is a very poor name change. "View tools" is
meaningless to me. "Context tools" has been the accepted term for classes
placed in the velocity context to serve as utilities for quite some time
now. I think this is a very poor change.
> We had plenty of discussions and I have clearly indicated what my plans
are.
> I am still pursuing that list. The only deviations were some bug fixes
based
> on user feedback. It is certainly true that I don't enjoy these kind of
> discussions with you.
This API change was never "clearly indicated" to me or anyone else to my
knowledge. It is not on that list.
Nathan Bubna
nathan@esha.com
--
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Re: [VelTools] Re: recent commits
Posted by Gabriel Sidler <si...@teamup.ch>.
Nathan Bubna wrote:
> Gabe committed:
>
>>sidler 02/04/15 11:30:30
>>
>> Modified: . README.txt build.xml
>> struts README.txt
>> struts/examples/struts index.html
>> struts/examples/struts/WEB-INF/lib
>> velocity-tools-library-0.1.jar
>> velocity-tools-view-0.6.jar
>> struts/examples/struts/WEB-INF/src/examples/app2
>> DemoAction.java
>> struts/examples/struts/doc examples.html
>> struts/examples/struts/examples/context_tools
>> mathtool-demo.txt mathtool-demo.vm
>> struts/examples/struts/examples/struts_app2 tool-demo.txt
>> tool-demo.vm
>> struts/lib velocity-tools-view-0.6.jar
>> struts/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/struts
>> ErrorsTool.java FormTool.java LinkTool.java
>> MessageTool.java StrutsUtils.java package.html
>> struts/xdocs index.xml menue.xml tools.xml userguide.xml
>> tools README.txt
>> tools/lib velocity-tools-view-0.6.jar
>> tools/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/tools
>>
> DateTool.java
>
>> MathTool.java ParameterParser.java ToolLoader.java
>> package.html
>> tools/xdocs ParameterParser.xml ToolLoader.xml
>> view README.txt
>> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/context
>> ChainedContext.java ToolboxContext.java
>> ViewContext.java
>> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/i18n
>> MultiViewsTool.java
>> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/servlet
>> ServletToolboxManager.java
>> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/tools
>> package.html
>> view/xdocs velservlet.xml
>> xdocs index.xml site.dvsl vellibrary.xml
>> Added: view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/servlet
>> ServletViewToolLogger.java
>> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/tools
>> ContextViewTool.java LogEnabledViewTool.java
>> LogEnabledViewToolImpl.java ServletViewTool.java
>> ThreadSafeViewTool.java ViewToolLogger.java
>> Removed: view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/servlet
>> ServletContextToolLogger.java
>> view/src/java/org/apache/velocity/tools/view/tools
>> ContextContextTool.java ContextToolLogger.java
>> LogEnabledContextTool.java
>> LogEnabledContextToolImpl.java
>> ServletContextTool.java ThreadSafeContextTool.java
>> Log:
>> Replaced the term "context tool" by "view tool" in the documentation and
>> source.
>>
>
> Gabe,
>
> At the risk of repeating myself and others...
>
> Please, please make your commits incremental,
All my recent commits have been small and smallest steps. The requirement
is obviously that the repository is never inconsistent. A small change
can sometimes lead to a large number of changed files. The commit message
you quoted above has been a simple change in terminology that I applied to
all files. I don't see how it makes sense to break down such a commit
into smaller chunks.
> and (even more importantly)
> get a consensus before you do so. This exactly the kind of open source
> behavior that Jakarta Apache projects do *not* desire or encourage!
>
>>>From Jakarta's "Our Mission" page: "The Apache projects are characterized
> by a collaborative, consensus based development process..."
>
> This last change (and others) you've made had absolutely NO consensus from
> users or developers. I'm on both lists and saw exactly zero discussion or
> agreement on this naming change.
This is really unfounded! I can't be in the spirit of open source projects
that every little change needs an explicit discussion and approval. If I,
as one of the initiators and main contributor to the VelTools project,
cannot even apply a name change without an explicity discussion, then we
really can pack and go home. This would be ridiculous, especially considering
the very early stage of this project. I make dozens such minor design decisions
a day. Most of the time nobody cares. If someone cares, there are plenty
of opportunities to bring this up and discuss it. At the end of the day
we need a consensus.
Regarding this particular case: I would like to emphasize that we had
an extensive discussion about the next steps. I have summarized the
discussion and clearly announced to the list what my next planned steps
are. See
http://www.mail-archive.com/velocity-dev@jakarta.apache.org/msg05863.html
> This is something I had meant to address
> this last week, but was rather busy at work. Well, for whatever it's worth
> now, i'm opposed to these name changes.
>
> I'm not ready to give up on this project yet, but i'm certainly being pushed
> in that direction by this kind of behavior. I was quite optimistic after
> how well the struts tools development went, but have become increasingly
> frustrated by your unilateral decisions and commits since that time.
We had plenty of discussions and I have clearly indicated what my plans are.
I am still pursuing that list. The only deviations were some bug fixes based
on user feedback. It is certainly true that I don't enjoy these kind of
discussions with you.
Regarding your commitment to this project: It's about the third time now
that you threaten in some way not to participate anymore. That's up to
you. It's certainly not a constructive way of cooperating. I am tired of
this kind of behavior and I am simply going to ignore it. I am always open
to technical discussions and I did and will value your technical contributions.
Gabe
--
Gabriel Sidler
Software Engineer, Eivycom GmbH, Zurich, Switzerland
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>