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Posted to dev@devicemap.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2014/10/31 10:05:05 UTC
Do we cancel this project now?
Hi upcoming DeviceMap PMC,
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/October2014 indicates that the
graduation resolution is being prepared, as discussed earlier.
Is this happening? I'd like to get this podling out of the door, I
don't think there's any reason to wait.
The next board meeting is on November 19, and the graduation
resolution needs to be reviewed and voted upon both here and by the
Incubator PMC, so now's the time to prepare it.
The alternative is to decide that there's not enough energy in this
project to accomplish the few administrative tasks that are required
from an Apache PMC, and move elsewhere. Which is fine as well if
that's what people what - what's needed is to make a clear decision at
some point, and act on it.
As I said earlier, as an incubation mentor I'm willing to stay on this
PMC to help the project get started, but I'd like the podling
committers to demonstrate their committment by making things happen.
Altough Reza volunteered to prepare the resolution this is not only on
him - the PMC has a collective responsibility in making sure things
happen in due time. I'm happy to help reviewing the graduation
resolution but I'm not going to prepare it myself.
-Bertrand
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Werner,
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...For new PMC members the PMC chair (synonym for VP, am I right?;-) moderates
> the vote, but all PMC members then vote, correct?...
Yeah, being the PMC chair makes no difference when it comes to
electing new committers or PMC members - they have one vote like all
PMC members.
The only thing special for election of PMC members is that it's the
PMC chair who has to send the proposal to the board, for a new PMC
member, and the board accepts or rejects it (though I've never seen a
reject).
> ...We could put it in the Wiki, and though it is not time consuming, if a
> volunteer (like Reza) was able to catch up with proposals for new Project
> members...
I don't think you need a wiki for that, the devicemap private list is
meant for PMC members to suggest and discuss new committers or PMC
members and vote on accepting them. That's one of the few very things
that PMCs do in private, to avoid embarassing potential candidates
which are not, or not yet accepted.
-Bertrand
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Hi Bertrand,
Thanks, I was asking on behalf of all who might fill this role.
For new PMC members the PMC chair (synonym for VP, am I right?;-) moderates
the vote, but all PMC members then vote, correct?
There is a slightly different practice at JCP.org where The Spec Lead(s)
have such duty, and though they could ask their EG members they have to
decide, at least one I believe, if there are more than one.
We could put it in the Wiki, and though it is not time consuming, if a
volunteer (like Reza) was able to catch up with proposals for new Project
members (it is a smaller project so there may not be dozens or hundreds
anyway, but of course any additional Hand would be welcome;-) it sounds
fine.
I am the most busy Spec Lead at JSR 363 and also lead a Downstream Project
implementing the Standard at Eclipse, so when it Comes to "hats" I am not
eager to collect too many everywhere;-D I am keen to keep this Project
alive if enough others agree to do so.
Werner
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Werner,
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > ...What are the duties of the VP in the Apache process?
> > If that person does not have to be a board member, is the VP required to
> attend board calls or similar?..
>
> No, the main work of the PMC chair is to make sure the quarterly
> project report is delivered in time for the board meeting. Most PMCs
> write the reports collaboratively, but it's ultimately the
> responsibility of the PMC chair to report.
>
> PMC chairs are welcome to attend the monthly board calls, if they're
> interested or if there's something special to discuss.
>
> Apart from that, the PMC chair has to relay to the board proposals for
> new PMC members, and follow up to register these new PMC members in
> the appropriate files once approved (or rather not rejected, after a
> 72-hour grace period) by the board.
>
> Also, contrary to other organizations, the PMC chair doesn't have more
> power than other PMC members in discussions or votes.
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair has a bit more details but I
> think that's the core of it. And
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc has a more
> detailed definition of the role.
>
> People are sometimes disappointed about being a VP and not having more
> power than that, but that's how it works - the good thing is that it's
> not very time consuming, it's mostly a coordination and communications
> role.
>
> Many projects make sure to rotate the PMC chair at regular intervals,
> say once a year, so that as many people as possible are informed of
> what the role means.
>
> HTH,
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Werner,
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...What are the duties of the VP in the Apache process?
> If that person does not have to be a board member, is the VP required to attend board calls or similar?..
No, the main work of the PMC chair is to make sure the quarterly
project report is delivered in time for the board meeting. Most PMCs
write the reports collaboratively, but it's ultimately the
responsibility of the PMC chair to report.
PMC chairs are welcome to attend the monthly board calls, if they're
interested or if there's something special to discuss.
Apart from that, the PMC chair has to relay to the board proposals for
new PMC members, and follow up to register these new PMC members in
the appropriate files once approved (or rather not rejected, after a
72-hour grace period) by the board.
Also, contrary to other organizations, the PMC chair doesn't have more
power than other PMC members in discussions or votes.
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair has a bit more details but I
think that's the core of it. And
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc has a more
detailed definition of the role.
People are sometimes disappointed about being a VP and not having more
power than that, but that's how it works - the good thing is that it's
not very time consuming, it's mostly a coordination and communications
role.
Many projects make sure to rotate the PMC chair at regular intervals,
say once a year, so that as many people as possible are informed of
what the role means.
HTH,
-Bertrand
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Bertrand,
What are the duties of the VP in the Apache process?
If that person does not have to be a board member, is the VP required to
attend board calls or similar?
That should tell who can meet those responsibilities if there are any. I
was the public face and "Community Advocate" for OpenDDR, but that was of
course a slightly smaller community compared to Apache. Other than yourself
(if you are the Mentor it seems this role should a graduated Project still
have such guidance would be enough for you) there are 3, max, 4 People (see
Radu he's busy at times, like most of us could be[?]) who are actively
involved to make sense of such role.
If there are no mandatory calls, meetings or duties either of us could not
handle due to their schedule or other representation (occasional
conferences like ApacheCon certainly can't hurt if it's within the Region
and Budget of that Person[?]) either of us might be OK for it then.
Sorry to hear, we may at most meet at the airport, since I fly back to
Germany that evening. Talking again in German about DeviceMap at a Mobile
Developer Conference of course[?]
Cheers,
Werner
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Radu Cotescu <ra...@apache.org> wrote:
> > ...Reza, Bertrand, what do you need us to do, besides drafting the
> Resolution?...
>
> I think the resolution is what's needed now, I can then start the vote
> to graduate and pass it on to the Incubator PMC.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Radu Cotescu <ra...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Reza, Bertrand, what do you need us to do, besides drafting the Resolution?...
I think the resolution is what's needed now, I can then start the vote
to graduate and pass it on to the Incubator PMC.
-Bertrand
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Radu Cotescu <ra...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I've had some busy weeks but things are starting to clear out from my
calendar and I can now make some time to help with the graduation. Since
the time doesn't allow me to coordinate this, I'm happy to share tasks with
Reza and Werner.
Reza, Bertrand, what do you need us to do, besides drafting the Resolution?
Cheers,
Radu
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Werner,
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > ...Taking the case of a "vaguely related" Project like Cordova:..
>
> That's a good starting point - you need all the paragraphs, the board
> doesn't modify it unless something's not correct.
>
> >
> > ...It seems, the Vice President of such project would be a board member,
> so
> > are you (or is there anybody else) happy to act as VP for DeviceMap?...
>
> The PMC chair is a Vice President at the ASF indeed, but not a board
> member, those are elected.
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair describes the role.
>
> Reza volunteered for that role initially, if that needs to change
> that's possible of course.
>
> -Bertrand (flying to ApacheCon on the monday, probably arriving too
> late to attend your talk unfortunately)
>
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Werner,
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Taking the case of a "vaguely related" Project like Cordova:..
That's a good starting point - you need all the paragraphs, the board
doesn't modify it unless something's not correct.
>
> ...It seems, the Vice President of such project would be a board member, so
> are you (or is there anybody else) happy to act as VP for DeviceMap?...
The PMC chair is a Vice President at the ASF indeed, but not a board
member, those are elected.
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair describes the role.
Reza volunteered for that role initially, if that needs to change
that's possible of course.
-Bertrand (flying to ApacheCon on the monday, probably arriving too
late to attend your talk unfortunately)
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Taking the case of a "vaguely related" Project like Cordova:
It seems, the Vice President of such project would be a board member, so
are you (or is there anybody else) happy to act as VP for DeviceMap?
Should be no big deal to put a template like this into the Wiki and then
adjust it to what DeviceMap does.
Are there paragraphs we must not provide because they are filled by the
board or Meeting anyway?
----
H. Establish the Apache Cordova Project
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the public,
related to building cross platform mobile applications with
HTML, Javascript and CSS.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Cordova Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Cordova Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to building cross platform mobile applications with
HTML, Javascript and CSS; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Cordova" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Cordova Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Cordova Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Cordova Project:
...
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Brian LeRoux
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Cordova, to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Cordova PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Cordova Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Cordova Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Cordova podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Cordova podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Special Order 7H, Establish the Apache Cordova Project, was
approved by Unanimous Vote of the directors present, with one
abstention: Roy Fielding
-----
If you are there Monday already, it would be a pleasure if you could at
least attend my DeviceMap talk. Depending on who else does if there are
questions, especially people who could be interested to participate, you
may be in a better position for some, especially administrative ones.
Thanks,
Werner
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Werner,
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > ...I am happy to help with the Resolution...
>
> Cool! You can see examples at
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html when there's an
> "establish FOO" item.
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/devicemap might be a good place to prepare the
> draft resolution.
>
> We can then discuss it here, and once we're happy with it vote on it
> and then submit it to the Incubator PMC for voting.
>
> > ...If the next board Meeting is in Budapest, I assume at least you'll
> attend
> > it F2F....
>
> The next board meeting is virtual as usual, I don't know who form the
> board will be at ApacheCon - I'll be there, my talks are on the
> Tuesday,
> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-europe/program/schedule
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Werner,
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I am happy to help with the Resolution...
Cool! You can see examples at
http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html when there's an
"establish FOO" item.
http://wiki.apache.org/devicemap might be a good place to prepare the
draft resolution.
We can then discuss it here, and once we're happy with it vote on it
and then submit it to the Incubator PMC for voting.
> ...If the next board Meeting is in Budapest, I assume at least you'll attend
> it F2F....
The next board meeting is virtual as usual, I don't know who form the
board will be at ApacheCon - I'll be there, my talks are on the
Tuesday, http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-europe/program/schedule
-Bertrand
Re: Do we cancel this project now?
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I am happy to help with the Resolution. And having helped projects in
various communities (JCP, Eclipse,...) I also have gained a bit of
experience with these things.
Is there a template, or something, Reza already started?
If the next board Meeting is in Budapest, I assume at least you'll attend
it F2F. I am not on the board, and I have 2(!) talks about this project
alone.
Would be a pity having to cancel those if we decided to quit, I offer to
help with it and I also prepared quite a bit of presentation materials over
the years, so Information that might be of use for the Resolution, I can
contribute.
Werner
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi upcoming DeviceMap PMC,
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/October2014 indicates that the
> graduation resolution is being prepared, as discussed earlier.
>
> Is this happening? I'd like to get this podling out of the door, I
> don't think there's any reason to wait.
>
> The next board meeting is on November 19, and the graduation
> resolution needs to be reviewed and voted upon both here and by the
> Incubator PMC, so now's the time to prepare it.
>
> The alternative is to decide that there's not enough energy in this
> project to accomplish the few administrative tasks that are required
> from an Apache PMC, and move elsewhere. Which is fine as well if
> that's what people what - what's needed is to make a clear decision at
> some point, and act on it.
>
> As I said earlier, as an incubation mentor I'm willing to stay on this
> PMC to help the project get started, but I'd like the podling
> committers to demonstrate their committment by making things happen.
>
> Altough Reza volunteered to prepare the resolution this is not only on
> him - the PMC has a collective responsibility in making sure things
> happen in due time. I'm happy to help reviewing the graduation
> resolution but I'm not going to prepare it myself.
>
> -Bertrand
>