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Posted to dev@cayenne.apache.org by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> on 2009/12/03 14:31:03 UTC
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
Nice start!
I wonder what we can do to scale it to large projects? E.g.:
http://people.apache.org/~aadamchik/class.png
Coincidentally the same issue was discussed on a WebObjects mailing
list today. It is not yet archived, and if I don't forget, I'll
forward the links once it is archived.
Andrus
On Dec 2, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Andrey Razumovsky (JIRA) wrote:
>
> [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAY-762?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12784856
> #action_12784856 ]
>
> Andrey Razumovsky commented on CAY-762:
> ---------------------------------------
>
> First version is committed on 3.1 trunk and I welcome everyone to
> try it.
> JGraph 5.13.0.0 is used as graph implementation.
>
> There are two types of diagrams - ER (for DbEntities) and Class (for
> ObjEntities). They are avaliable through "Graph" tab of DataDomain
> information panel.
>
> What IS done:
> * drawing of entities with attributes and relationships between
> them, showing arity of rels, inheritance
> * quick showing entities in left-hand tree (using right-click
> context menu), as well as some basic operation shortcuts
> * lazy loading of graphs - they are not created until requested
> * layout of firstly opened graph with entities (played a bit with
> jgraph layouts, still not sure this is the best one). Note that
> opening a large project may result in a complex web of entities
> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring).
> Note that this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
> * synchronizing in both sides with left-hand tree
> * scaling
> * saving models as images
> * undo support
>
> What IS NOT done:
> * editing objects (e.g. entity names, attrs) in graph
> * finding object on the graph from its info panel
> * grouping by datamaps (in fact, I've found that standard JGraph
> grouping doesn't look well on my models).
>
> Please post your comments
>
>> ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Key: CAY-762
>> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAY-762
>> Project: Cayenne
>> Issue Type: New Feature
>> Components: CayenneModeler GUI
>> Affects Versions: 3.0
>> Reporter: Ahmed Mohombe
>> Assignee: Andrey Razumovsky
>> Fix For: 3.1M1
>>
>>
>> Please add an ER Diagram to the Cayenne Modeler. This is the
>> feature that I miss the most from WebObjects.
>> For start it would be even enough to have an ER Diagram View (so
>> no interactive activities) - just display and layout of entities.
>> I think this would help allot and would increase the productivity
>> with CM - most people think visually.
>> I don't think that it would be complicated to implement, the most
>> complicated question to answer is what graph library is allowed to
>> use, due to the restrictive "license compatibility" of the Apache
>> license.
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Ahmed.
>
> --
> This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
> -
> You can reply to this email to add a comment to the issue online.
>
>
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrey Razumovsky <ra...@gmail.com>.
The ultimate goal is to add most model operations (add/remove/edit
entity/attribute/relationship...) to graph panel. Then everything takes its
place and you can edit model and organize graph at the same time
2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>
> On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Andrey Razumovsky wrote:
>
> if you create projects from the start, you can constanlly
>> and sequentially organize the graph
>>
>
> Good point.
>
>
--
Andrey
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Andrey Razumovsky wrote:
> if you create projects from the start, you can constanlly
> and sequentially organize the graph
Good point.
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrey Razumovsky <ra...@gmail.com>.
Well, I played with standard JGraph layouts for some time, this is the best
I found. Probably I will return to this research someday. But definitely we
can create big graphs on bigger sheet, then it well be less confusing.
On the other hand, if you create projects from the start, you can constanlly
and sequentially organize the graph, so it will not be so messy.
2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
> Nice start!
>
> I wonder what we can do to scale it to large projects? E.g.:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~aadamchik/class.png<http://people.apache.org/%7Eaadamchik/class.png>
>
> Coincidentally the same issue was discussed on a WebObjects mailing list
> today. It is not yet archived, and if I don't forget, I'll forward the links
> once it is archived.
>
> Andrus
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Andrey Razumovsky (JIRA) wrote:
>
>
>> [
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAY-762?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12784856#action_12784856
>> ]
>>
>> Andrey Razumovsky commented on CAY-762:
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>> First version is committed on 3.1 trunk and I welcome everyone to try it.
>> JGraph 5.13.0.0 is used as graph implementation.
>>
>> There are two types of diagrams - ER (for DbEntities) and Class (for
>> ObjEntities). They are avaliable through "Graph" tab of DataDomain
>> information panel.
>>
>> What IS done:
>> * drawing of entities with attributes and relationships between them,
>> showing arity of rels, inheritance
>> * quick showing entities in left-hand tree (using right-click context
>> menu), as well as some basic operation shortcuts
>> * lazy loading of graphs - they are not created until requested
>> * layout of firstly opened graph with entities (played a bit with jgraph
>> layouts, still not sure this is the best one). Note that opening a large
>> project may result in a complex web of entities
>> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring). Note that
>> this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
>> * synchronizing in both sides with left-hand tree
>> * scaling
>> * saving models as images
>> * undo support
>>
>> What IS NOT done:
>> * editing objects (e.g. entity names, attrs) in graph
>> * finding object on the graph from its info panel
>> * grouping by datamaps (in fact, I've found that standard JGraph grouping
>> doesn't look well on my models).
>>
>> Please post your comments
>>
>> ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Key: CAY-762
>>> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAY-762
>>> Project: Cayenne
>>> Issue Type: New Feature
>>> Components: CayenneModeler GUI
>>> Affects Versions: 3.0
>>> Reporter: Ahmed Mohombe
>>> Assignee: Andrey Razumovsky
>>> Fix For: 3.1M1
>>>
>>>
>>> Please add an ER Diagram to the Cayenne Modeler. This is the feature that
>>> I miss the most from WebObjects.
>>> For start it would be even enough to have an ER Diagram View (so no
>>> interactive activities) - just display and layout of entities.
>>> I think this would help allot and would increase the productivity with CM
>>> - most people think visually.
>>> I don't think that it would be complicated to implement, the most
>>> complicated question to answer is what graph library is allowed to use, due
>>> to the restrictive "license compatibility" of the Apache license.
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Ahmed.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
>> -
>> You can reply to this email to add a comment to the issue online.
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Andrey
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
I guess the timeline for this is ~3.1M1 (whenever that might be...
still I am eager to try the new DI stuff in my apps, so once the
configuration switch is over I was going to suggest an M1). In any
event this gives us some breezing room.
Good point on the file falling out of sync. I guess the graph load
algorithm will have to handle that - ignoring deleted/renamed
entities, auto-positioning new entities. Not sure if it stores the
connectors positions as well, but if it does, it can apply the same
approach - if both endpoint entities are still there, keep it,
otherwise remove it.
Andrus
On Dec 24, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Andrey Razumovsky wrote:
> Well, this task in not yet finished and unfortunately these days I'm
> very
> short of time. Guess we'll need to reconsider the saving mechanism
> later
> somehow. But note that if graphs aren't synchronized together with
> datamap
> conflicts may occur. Just imagine situation when someone removes an
> entity,
> but it still exists in your graph! It may be not so easy to handle
> all of
> them
>
> 2009/12/24 Ольга Ткачева <tk...@gmail.com>
>
>> excellent work, but I agree with Andrus.
>> for example: yesterday I need only change DbEntity configuration,
>> but I
>> accidentally chose tab "graph". It create new graph.xml file,
>> but I don't need it, it is really distraction and created commit
>> noise.
>> And I think if I will be use graph, my graphs configuration maybe be
>> uncomfortable for other users.
>> for example: I work only with 6 tables in DB and of course I will be
>> placing
>> it apart from all, but after update my tables change its places,
>> it is really no good.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
>>>
>>> It doesn't make any sense to have a project-specific piece of
>> information
>>>> stored in preferences.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And still we do that a lot already. There's a bunch of per-screen
>>> Modeler
>>> preferences stored per project (and not in user visible XML
>>> files). If
>> you
>>> move to another machine, you lose it.
>>>
>>> I think the difference here is in a mental view of the graph
>>> layout task.
>>> To you and Andrey it is a part of the ORM modeling work. To me it
>>> is not.
>> It
>>> is a *local* user preference. Something a single developer would
>>> tweak to
>>> his or her liking, kind of like arranging icons on a desktop.
>>>
>>> Let me give you a few examples of why sharing a layout might be bad:
>>>
>>> * 2 developers on the project want to have different layouts,
>>> because
>> they
>>> work with different parts of the model. So they group entities
>> differently.
>>>
>>> * A single developer rearranges the layout multiple times during
>>> the day
>> as
>>> he goes from one task to another.
>>>
>>> * 1 developer uses a 13" notebook, another - 31" screen. Developer
>>> 1 has
>> no
>>> choice, but to optimize the layout for his screen.
>>>
>>> Andrus
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Olga Tkacheva
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrey
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrey Razumovsky <ra...@gmail.com>.
Well, this task in not yet finished and unfortunately these days I'm very
short of time. Guess we'll need to reconsider the saving mechanism later
somehow. But note that if graphs aren't synchronized together with datamap
conflicts may occur. Just imagine situation when someone removes an entity,
but it still exists in your graph! It may be not so easy to handle all of
them
2009/12/24 Ольга Ткачева <tk...@gmail.com>
> excellent work, but I agree with Andrus.
> for example: yesterday I need only change DbEntity configuration, but I
> accidentally chose tab "graph". It create new graph.xml file,
> but I don't need it, it is really distraction and created commit noise.
> And I think if I will be use graph, my graphs configuration maybe be
> uncomfortable for other users.
> for example: I work only with 6 tables in DB and of course I will be
> placing
> it apart from all, but after update my tables change its places,
> it is really no good.
>
>
>
> 2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
> >
> > It doesn't make any sense to have a project-specific piece of
> information
> >> stored in preferences.
> >>
> >
> > And still we do that a lot already. There's a bunch of per-screen Modeler
> > preferences stored per project (and not in user visible XML files). If
> you
> > move to another machine, you lose it.
> >
> > I think the difference here is in a mental view of the graph layout task.
> > To you and Andrey it is a part of the ORM modeling work. To me it is not.
> It
> > is a *local* user preference. Something a single developer would tweak to
> > his or her liking, kind of like arranging icons on a desktop.
> >
> > Let me give you a few examples of why sharing a layout might be bad:
> >
> > * 2 developers on the project want to have different layouts, because
> they
> > work with different parts of the model. So they group entities
> differently.
> >
> > * A single developer rearranges the layout multiple times during the day
> as
> > he goes from one task to another.
> >
> > * 1 developer uses a 13" notebook, another - 31" screen. Developer 1 has
> no
> > choice, but to optimize the layout for his screen.
> >
> > Andrus
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Olga Tkacheva
>
--
Andrey
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Ольга Ткачева <tk...@gmail.com>.
excellent work, but I agree with Andrus.
for example: yesterday I need only change DbEntity configuration, but I
accidentally chose tab "graph". It create new graph.xml file,
but I don't need it, it is really distraction and created commit noise.
And I think if I will be use graph, my graphs configuration maybe be
uncomfortable for other users.
for example: I work only with 6 tables in DB and of course I will be placing
it apart from all, but after update my tables change its places,
it is really no good.
2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>
> On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
>
> It doesn't make any sense to have a project-specific piece of information
>> stored in preferences.
>>
>
> And still we do that a lot already. There's a bunch of per-screen Modeler
> preferences stored per project (and not in user visible XML files). If you
> move to another machine, you lose it.
>
> I think the difference here is in a mental view of the graph layout task.
> To you and Andrey it is a part of the ORM modeling work. To me it is not. It
> is a *local* user preference. Something a single developer would tweak to
> his or her liking, kind of like arranging icons on a desktop.
>
> Let me give you a few examples of why sharing a layout might be bad:
>
> * 2 developers on the project want to have different layouts, because they
> work with different parts of the model. So they group entities differently.
>
> * A single developer rearranges the layout multiple times during the day as
> he goes from one task to another.
>
> * 1 developer uses a 13" notebook, another - 31" screen. Developer 1 has no
> choice, but to optimize the layout for his screen.
>
> Andrus
>
>
--
Olga Tkacheva
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
> It doesn't make any sense to have a project-specific piece of
> information
> stored in preferences.
And still we do that a lot already. There's a bunch of per-screen
Modeler preferences stored per project (and not in user visible XML
files). If you move to another machine, you lose it.
I think the difference here is in a mental view of the graph layout
task. To you and Andrey it is a part of the ORM modeling work. To me
it is not. It is a *local* user preference. Something a single
developer would tweak to his or her liking, kind of like arranging
icons on a desktop.
Let me give you a few examples of why sharing a layout might be bad:
* 2 developers on the project want to have different layouts, because
they work with different parts of the model. So they group entities
differently.
* A single developer rearranges the layout multiple times during the
day as he goes from one task to another.
* 1 developer uses a 13" notebook, another - 31" screen. Developer 1
has no choice, but to optimize the layout for his screen.
Andrus
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrey Razumovsky <ra...@gmail.com>.
We can have some check box "save graph changes" for every graph. by default
it is false, and turns on if there were major changes (e.g. entity added) or
checked manually. Minor changes (entity moved, resized, etc) will not be
saved by default.
Anyways, I think this task is not of highest priority, and we need more
opinions to take decision
2009/12/3 Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>
> I agree with Andrey. It should be saved as part of the project. It
> doesn't make any sense to have a project-specific piece of information
> stored in preferences. If you copy your project to another machine,
> you lose the information. If you delete the project, the information
> remains in preferences even though the project is gone.
>
> You should mark it as ignored if you don't want to put it in your SCM
> or if the noise bothers you.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
> wrote:
> > I agree with the premise, but I had bad experience with other ORM tools
> > years ago that would save the layout together with the project, and then
> a
> > single unintended mouse move results in making the project "dirty" and
> > creates an underlying SCM change. IMO that was a distraction and created
> > constant commit noise.
> >
> > So essentially managing a pretty layout is a parallel task to the main
> task
> > of creating a model, and I don't want it to become a distraction. So
> maybe
> > we can make it a project property (persist-layout: true|false (default))?
> If
> > true, it will store the XML together with the project, if false, it will
> > store it in local preferences?
> >
> > Andrus
> >
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Andrey Razumovsky wrote:
> >>
> >> 2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> >>>
> >>> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring). Note
> >>> that
> >>>>>
> >>>>> this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> I think this can be tied to preferences and saved in ~/.cayenne/.
> Saving
> >>> it
> >>> in the project tree has SCM implications.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I thought of that..
> >> Lets take your example. You've got an enormous project, so no layout can
> >> place entities without intersections. You spend half a day to organize
> it
> >> well.. Then what? How can other members of the team see your changes? It
> >> is
> >> even better when graph is in SCM - it is not a big file, and allows
> >> everyone
> >> to see it. Graph file is XML, so SVN should merge it correctly. The only
> >> thing you need is exclude it from packaged version of your project (if
> you
> >> want).
> >>
> >> At last resort you can add graph files to something like svn:ignore
> >
> >
>
--
Andrey
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
I agree with Andrey. It should be saved as part of the project. It
doesn't make any sense to have a project-specific piece of information
stored in preferences. If you copy your project to another machine,
you lose the information. If you delete the project, the information
remains in preferences even though the project is gone.
You should mark it as ignored if you don't want to put it in your SCM
or if the noise bothers you.
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> I agree with the premise, but I had bad experience with other ORM tools
> years ago that would save the layout together with the project, and then a
> single unintended mouse move results in making the project "dirty" and
> creates an underlying SCM change. IMO that was a distraction and created
> constant commit noise.
>
> So essentially managing a pretty layout is a parallel task to the main task
> of creating a model, and I don't want it to become a distraction. So maybe
> we can make it a project property (persist-layout: true|false (default))? If
> true, it will store the XML together with the project, if false, it will
> store it in local preferences?
>
> Andrus
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Andrey Razumovsky wrote:
>>
>> 2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>
>>> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring). Note
>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>> this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think this can be tied to preferences and saved in ~/.cayenne/. Saving
>>> it
>>> in the project tree has SCM implications.
>>>
>>>
>> I thought of that..
>> Lets take your example. You've got an enormous project, so no layout can
>> place entities without intersections. You spend half a day to organize it
>> well.. Then what? How can other members of the team see your changes? It
>> is
>> even better when graph is in SCM - it is not a big file, and allows
>> everyone
>> to see it. Graph file is XML, so SVN should merge it correctly. The only
>> thing you need is exclude it from packaged version of your project (if you
>> want).
>>
>> At last resort you can add graph files to something like svn:ignore
>
>
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
I agree with the premise, but I had bad experience with other ORM
tools years ago that would save the layout together with the project,
and then a single unintended mouse move results in making the project
"dirty" and creates an underlying SCM change. IMO that was a
distraction and created constant commit noise.
So essentially managing a pretty layout is a parallel task to the main
task of creating a model, and I don't want it to become a distraction.
So maybe we can make it a project property (persist-layout: true|false
(default))? If true, it will store the XML together with the project,
if false, it will store it in local preferences?
Andrus
On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Andrey Razumovsky wrote:
> 2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>
>> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring).
>> Note that
>>>> this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
>>>>
>>>
>> I think this can be tied to preferences and saved in ~/.cayenne/.
>> Saving it
>> in the project tree has SCM implications.
>>
>>
> I thought of that..
> Lets take your example. You've got an enormous project, so no layout
> can
> place entities without intersections. You spend half a day to
> organize it
> well.. Then what? How can other members of the team see your
> changes? It is
> even better when graph is in SCM - it is not a big file, and allows
> everyone
> to see it. Graph file is XML, so SVN should merge it correctly. The
> only
> thing you need is exclude it from packaged version of your project
> (if you
> want).
>
> At last resort you can add graph files to something like svn:ignore
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in
Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrey Razumovsky <ra...@gmail.com>.
2009/12/3 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
>
> On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>
> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring). Note that
>>> this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
>>>
>>
> I think this can be tied to preferences and saved in ~/.cayenne/. Saving it
> in the project tree has SCM implications.
>
>
I thought of that..
Lets take your example. You've got an enormous project, so no layout can
place entities without intersections. You spend half a day to organize it
well.. Then what? How can other members of the team see your changes? It is
even better when graph is in SCM - it is not a big file, and allows everyone
to see it. Graph file is XML, so SVN should merge it correctly. The only
thing you need is exclude it from packaged version of your project (if you
want).
At last resort you can add graph files to something like svn:ignore
Re: [jira] Commented: (CAY-762) ERDiagram for Object Entities in Cayenne Modeler
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>> * saving graphs info as <domain_name>.graph.xml (and restoring).
>> Note that this file will not be used in classic Cayenne runtime
I think this can be tied to preferences and saved in ~/.cayenne/.
Saving it in the project tree has SCM implications.
>> * grouping by datamaps (in fact, I've found that standard JGraph
>> grouping doesn't look well on my models).
This (an maybe an ability to filter/group entities by some criteria)
may be the answer to working with large schemas.
Andrus