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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Chris Maffey <ch...@maffey.com> on 2013/05/07 23:03:50 UTC
OO CD Distribution
Hi There
I have been distributing OO Cds since 2002, from my website
http://openoffice.org.nz/.
This is mostly an exercise in helping distribute OpenOffice, rather than a
money maker. I sell the CDs for around $3.50 USD, and after all the CD
printing, Package printing, CD Burning expenses there is no profit.
I know this is not a huge contribution, however I have sold around 3,700 OO
CDs in New Zealand over the last 10 years, which possibly helps in a little
way.
When I started this local project, internet speeds were slow, and many
people found it difficult to download a big piece of software like Open
Office, so a CD distribution option was really helpful. This is far less
the case these days, however, some people still like to get nicely printed
physical CDs.
Anyway, it would be of great help to have a page like the one below
reinstated as a link from the Open Office download page:
http://www.openoffice.org/distribution/cdrom/sellers.html
My suggestion for vetting distributors is two fold:
1) All CD distributors websites should have a clear indication that
OpenOffice is free to download, plus a link back to the download page.
2) Maybe distributors should have to occasionally send a physical CD to
someone in the Open Office distro team, so that they can vet the CD has the
most recent version of the software on it.
Thanks for listening
Chris...
--
Say it with Puppies: http://www.puppytext.com/
Get Freestuff: http://www.freestuff.co.nz/
Chris Maffey | maffey.com limited
126 Lonely Track Road, Albany 0632
Phone: +64 9 448 2192
Re: OO CD Distribution
Posted by Donald Whytock <dw...@apache.org>.
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Donald Whytock <dw...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Is there a larger version of the orb graphic? Something, say, big enough
> > to use as a CD label background?
> >
> > Don
> >
>
> The svg file for the "flat orb" can be found at:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/orb.svg
>
> and resized.
>
> If you're thinking about using the "shaded orb" that's in the web site
> logo, I don't find just that orb in svg format anyway. Maybe Michael
> Acevedo could provide us with one as he supplied the orb+lettering logo
> we're now using.
>
> I think the the svg for this complete logo is at:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg
>
> (see additional info at:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+3.x+-+Logo+Explorations
>
>
>
The flat orb works nicely, thanks. At least for a prototype.
Don
Re: OO CD Distribution
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Donald Whytock <dw...@apache.org> wrote:
> Is there a larger version of the orb graphic? Something, say, big enough
> to use as a CD label background?
>
> Don
>
The svg file for the "flat orb" can be found at:
http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/orb.svg
and resized.
If you're thinking about using the "shaded orb" that's in the web site
logo, I don't find just that orb in svg format anyway. Maybe Michael
Acevedo could provide us with one as he supplied the orb+lettering logo
we're now using.
I think the the svg for this complete logo is at:
http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg
(see additional info at:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+3.x+-+Logo+Explorations
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >> From: Chris Maffey [mailto:chris@maffey.com]
> > >
> > >> I have been distributing OO Cds since 2002, from my website
> > >> http://openoffice.org.nz/.
> > >>
> > >> This is mostly an exercise in helping distribute OpenOffice,
> > >> rather than a
> > >> money maker. I sell the CDs for around $3.50 USD, and after
> > >> all the CD
> > >> printing, Package printing, CD Burning expenses there is no profit.
> > >>
> > >> I know this is not a huge contribution, however I have sold
> > >> around 3,700 OO
> > >> CDs in New Zealand over the last 10 years, which possibly
> > >> helps in a little
> > >> way.
> > >
> > > I think that's good, thank you for your work.
> > >
> > > But I think "profit" is something positive, because imho the statement
> > of the FSF
> > > is correct:
> > >
> > > "Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price does not
> make
> > the free
> > > software, or even closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies
> of
> > free
> > > software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some
> money
> > .
> > > Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity;. if you
> > do it, you
> > > might as well make a profit from it "
> > >
> > > see:
> > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en
> > >
> > >
> > > For example, we have, in the past, the PrOOo-Box (professionally
> pressed
> > DVD plus
> > > printed manual (150 pages) in a box) sold for 12 euros.
> > > We used this money for the local work on OOo, for example, for fairs
> how
> > the
> > > LinuxTag (http://www.linuxtag.org/2013/en.html).
> > >
> > >
> >
> > On the idea of reviving a CD/Distribution site, I'd like to review the
> > reasons why we took it down originally:
> >
> > 1) The list was out of date. A quick check of the links showed that
> > many were dead or did not actually go to pages that offered OpenOffice
> > CD's.
> >
> > 2) As part of a non-profit foundation we need to be very careful how
> > we relate to commercial entities. We can't be seen, for example, as
> > giving special treatment to some commercial entities over others. And
> > we need to be acting in accordance with the Foundations charitable
> > mission.
> >
> > 3) We also need to watch out to ensure that our trademarks are not
> misused.
> >
> > 4) We have no practical way to ensure that CD distributors are
> > offering current versions of OpenOffice, are virus free, etc. We see
> > many examples of websites that claim to offer OpenOffice downloads but
> > instead trick the user into downloading another application that
> > installs malware on their machine. Our constant advice to users is
> > to only download from a trusted source. How do we apply this advice
> > with physical media?
> >
> > 5) Search engines are good enough today that a user can find a
> > distributor without us getting involved. For example a Google search
> > of 'buy openoffice cd new zealand" turns up the appropriate website at
> > the top.
> >
> >
> > But since the time we took that page down we've had more experience
> > thinking these kinds of issues through. For example, we now have a
> > consultants page:
> >
> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
> >
> > That page has a disclaimer:
> >
> > "The information provided here was provided by the entities named, and
> > is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice project. We offer
> > this listing as a service to the ecosystem."
> >
> > And we have impartial listing criteria. We don't give preferential
> > treatment to one company over another:
> >
> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html
> >
> > The listings are fact-based and descriptive, not advertising.
> >
> > We also visit each website and verify that any use of ASF-owned
> > trademarks is appropriate and correctly acknowledged.
> >
> > So I think we could develop a set of guidelines for CD listings, on a
> > similar model to what we did with consultants. To make it lightweight
> > I'd propose a set of guidelines that the distributors "self-certify"
> > to. In other words, they agree to follow these guidelines as a
> > condition of being listed. Things like:
> >
> > 1) Only appropriate, acknowledged use of trademarks
> >
> > 2) No implied affiliation with the OpenOffice project
> >
> > 3) Notice that the software can be downloaded for free from
> > www.openoffice.org
> >
> > 4) Software offered is unmodified AOO. Hashcodes must match. (Of
> > course, everyone has the right to modify AOO, but if we're linking to
> > distributors from our download website, the presumption is for
> > unmodified versions. If we want a separate list for sales of modified
> > versions of AOO that should go on the ports and distributions page)
> >
> > 5) Versions offered must be either the current version of AOO or
> > another version of AOO that was current within 90 days from the sale.
> > In other words, we want to discourage distribution of old versions
> > with security flaws.
> >
> > 6) Distributor should be signed up to our announcements mailing list,
> > so they are promptly notified of new releases.
> >
> > 7) Distributor must not imply that support is included in the purchase
> > price, unless they actually provide support. We've seen some websites
> > charge for OpenOffice, say it includes support, and then point the
> > user to the free community support forums.
> >
> > Now on any of these points, you might say, "But that is none of your
> > concern what version I sell, whether I modify, what links I give,
> > etc." This is true, to an extent. But when we add links to a 3rd
> > party on our website we do so only for the benefit of our users, so it
> > is reasonable for us to ask for such conditions. It would be a
> > one-sided bargain if we just listed everyone with no conditions.
> >
> > Just food for thought.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Jörg
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"There's no upside in screwing with things you can't explain."
-- Captain Roy Montgomery, "Castle"
Re: OO CD Distribution
Posted by Donald Whytock <dw...@apache.org>.
Is there a larger version of the orb graphic? Something, say, big enough
to use as a CD label background?
Don
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >> From: Chris Maffey [mailto:chris@maffey.com]
> >
> >> I have been distributing OO Cds since 2002, from my website
> >> http://openoffice.org.nz/.
> >>
> >> This is mostly an exercise in helping distribute OpenOffice,
> >> rather than a
> >> money maker. I sell the CDs for around $3.50 USD, and after
> >> all the CD
> >> printing, Package printing, CD Burning expenses there is no profit.
> >>
> >> I know this is not a huge contribution, however I have sold
> >> around 3,700 OO
> >> CDs in New Zealand over the last 10 years, which possibly
> >> helps in a little
> >> way.
> >
> > I think that's good, thank you for your work.
> >
> > But I think "profit" is something positive, because imho the statement
> of the FSF
> > is correct:
> >
> > "Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price does not make
> the free
> > software, or even closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of
> free
> > software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money
> .
> > Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity;. if you
> do it, you
> > might as well make a profit from it "
> >
> > see:
> > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en
> >
> >
> > For example, we have, in the past, the PrOOo-Box (professionally pressed
> DVD plus
> > printed manual (150 pages) in a box) sold for 12 euros.
> > We used this money for the local work on OOo, for example, for fairs how
> the
> > LinuxTag (http://www.linuxtag.org/2013/en.html).
> >
> >
>
> On the idea of reviving a CD/Distribution site, I'd like to review the
> reasons why we took it down originally:
>
> 1) The list was out of date. A quick check of the links showed that
> many were dead or did not actually go to pages that offered OpenOffice
> CD's.
>
> 2) As part of a non-profit foundation we need to be very careful how
> we relate to commercial entities. We can't be seen, for example, as
> giving special treatment to some commercial entities over others. And
> we need to be acting in accordance with the Foundations charitable
> mission.
>
> 3) We also need to watch out to ensure that our trademarks are not misused.
>
> 4) We have no practical way to ensure that CD distributors are
> offering current versions of OpenOffice, are virus free, etc. We see
> many examples of websites that claim to offer OpenOffice downloads but
> instead trick the user into downloading another application that
> installs malware on their machine. Our constant advice to users is
> to only download from a trusted source. How do we apply this advice
> with physical media?
>
> 5) Search engines are good enough today that a user can find a
> distributor without us getting involved. For example a Google search
> of 'buy openoffice cd new zealand" turns up the appropriate website at
> the top.
>
>
> But since the time we took that page down we've had more experience
> thinking these kinds of issues through. For example, we now have a
> consultants page:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>
> That page has a disclaimer:
>
> "The information provided here was provided by the entities named, and
> is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice project. We offer
> this listing as a service to the ecosystem."
>
> And we have impartial listing criteria. We don't give preferential
> treatment to one company over another:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html
>
> The listings are fact-based and descriptive, not advertising.
>
> We also visit each website and verify that any use of ASF-owned
> trademarks is appropriate and correctly acknowledged.
>
> So I think we could develop a set of guidelines for CD listings, on a
> similar model to what we did with consultants. To make it lightweight
> I'd propose a set of guidelines that the distributors "self-certify"
> to. In other words, they agree to follow these guidelines as a
> condition of being listed. Things like:
>
> 1) Only appropriate, acknowledged use of trademarks
>
> 2) No implied affiliation with the OpenOffice project
>
> 3) Notice that the software can be downloaded for free from
> www.openoffice.org
>
> 4) Software offered is unmodified AOO. Hashcodes must match. (Of
> course, everyone has the right to modify AOO, but if we're linking to
> distributors from our download website, the presumption is for
> unmodified versions. If we want a separate list for sales of modified
> versions of AOO that should go on the ports and distributions page)
>
> 5) Versions offered must be either the current version of AOO or
> another version of AOO that was current within 90 days from the sale.
> In other words, we want to discourage distribution of old versions
> with security flaws.
>
> 6) Distributor should be signed up to our announcements mailing list,
> so they are promptly notified of new releases.
>
> 7) Distributor must not imply that support is included in the purchase
> price, unless they actually provide support. We've seen some websites
> charge for OpenOffice, say it includes support, and then point the
> user to the free community support forums.
>
> Now on any of these points, you might say, "But that is none of your
> concern what version I sell, whether I modify, what links I give,
> etc." This is true, to an extent. But when we add links to a 3rd
> party on our website we do so only for the benefit of our users, so it
> is reasonable for us to ask for such conditions. It would be a
> one-sided bargain if we just listed everyone with no conditions.
>
> Just food for thought.
>
> -Rob
>
> >
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Jörg
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: OO CD Distribution
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> From: Chris Maffey [mailto:chris@maffey.com]
>
>> I have been distributing OO Cds since 2002, from my website
>> http://openoffice.org.nz/.
>>
>> This is mostly an exercise in helping distribute OpenOffice,
>> rather than a
>> money maker. I sell the CDs for around $3.50 USD, and after
>> all the CD
>> printing, Package printing, CD Burning expenses there is no profit.
>>
>> I know this is not a huge contribution, however I have sold
>> around 3,700 OO
>> CDs in New Zealand over the last 10 years, which possibly
>> helps in a little
>> way.
>
> I think that's good, thank you for your work.
>
> But I think "profit" is something positive, because imho the statement of the FSF
> is correct:
>
> "Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price does not make the free
> software, or even closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of free
> software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money .
> Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity;. if you do it, you
> might as well make a profit from it "
>
> see:
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en
>
>
> For example, we have, in the past, the PrOOo-Box (professionally pressed DVD plus
> printed manual (150 pages) in a box) sold for 12 euros.
> We used this money for the local work on OOo, for example, for fairs how the
> LinuxTag (http://www.linuxtag.org/2013/en.html).
>
>
On the idea of reviving a CD/Distribution site, I'd like to review the
reasons why we took it down originally:
1) The list was out of date. A quick check of the links showed that
many were dead or did not actually go to pages that offered OpenOffice
CD's.
2) As part of a non-profit foundation we need to be very careful how
we relate to commercial entities. We can't be seen, for example, as
giving special treatment to some commercial entities over others. And
we need to be acting in accordance with the Foundations charitable
mission.
3) We also need to watch out to ensure that our trademarks are not misused.
4) We have no practical way to ensure that CD distributors are
offering current versions of OpenOffice, are virus free, etc. We see
many examples of websites that claim to offer OpenOffice downloads but
instead trick the user into downloading another application that
installs malware on their machine. Our constant advice to users is
to only download from a trusted source. How do we apply this advice
with physical media?
5) Search engines are good enough today that a user can find a
distributor without us getting involved. For example a Google search
of 'buy openoffice cd new zealand" turns up the appropriate website at
the top.
But since the time we took that page down we've had more experience
thinking these kinds of issues through. For example, we now have a
consultants page:
http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
That page has a disclaimer:
"The information provided here was provided by the entities named, and
is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice project. We offer
this listing as a service to the ecosystem."
And we have impartial listing criteria. We don't give preferential
treatment to one company over another:
http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html
The listings are fact-based and descriptive, not advertising.
We also visit each website and verify that any use of ASF-owned
trademarks is appropriate and correctly acknowledged.
So I think we could develop a set of guidelines for CD listings, on a
similar model to what we did with consultants. To make it lightweight
I'd propose a set of guidelines that the distributors "self-certify"
to. In other words, they agree to follow these guidelines as a
condition of being listed. Things like:
1) Only appropriate, acknowledged use of trademarks
2) No implied affiliation with the OpenOffice project
3) Notice that the software can be downloaded for free from www.openoffice.org
4) Software offered is unmodified AOO. Hashcodes must match. (Of
course, everyone has the right to modify AOO, but if we're linking to
distributors from our download website, the presumption is for
unmodified versions. If we want a separate list for sales of modified
versions of AOO that should go on the ports and distributions page)
5) Versions offered must be either the current version of AOO or
another version of AOO that was current within 90 days from the sale.
In other words, we want to discourage distribution of old versions
with security flaws.
6) Distributor should be signed up to our announcements mailing list,
so they are promptly notified of new releases.
7) Distributor must not imply that support is included in the purchase
price, unless they actually provide support. We've seen some websites
charge for OpenOffice, say it includes support, and then point the
user to the free community support forums.
Now on any of these points, you might say, "But that is none of your
concern what version I sell, whether I modify, what links I give,
etc." This is true, to an extent. But when we add links to a 3rd
party on our website we do so only for the benefit of our users, so it
is reasonable for us to ask for such conditions. It would be a
one-sided bargain if we just listed everyone with no conditions.
Just food for thought.
-Rob
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OO CD Distribution
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
Hello,
> From: Chris Maffey [mailto:chris@maffey.com]
> I have been distributing OO Cds since 2002, from my website
> http://openoffice.org.nz/.
>
> This is mostly an exercise in helping distribute OpenOffice,
> rather than a
> money maker. I sell the CDs for around $3.50 USD, and after
> all the CD
> printing, Package printing, CD Burning expenses there is no profit.
>
> I know this is not a huge contribution, however I have sold
> around 3,700 OO
> CDs in New Zealand over the last 10 years, which possibly
> helps in a little
> way.
I think that's good, thank you for your work.
But I think "profit" is something positive, because imho the statement of the FSF
is correct:
"Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price does not make the free
software, or even closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of free
software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money .
Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity;. if you do it, you
might as well make a profit from it "
see:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en
For example, we have, in the past, the PrOOo-Box (professionally pressed DVD plus
printed manual (150 pages) in a box) sold for 12 euros.
We used this money for the local work on OOo, for example, for fairs how the
LinuxTag (http://www.linuxtag.org/2013/en.html).
Greetings,
Jörg
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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