Perl vs Java (XML Modules)

[Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>]

On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Drew Taylor wrote:

> I know this goes a little off topic, so I apologize in advance.

I changed the topic for you :-)

> One big sticking point with Perl I'm just starting to run into is XML.
> Yes, Perl has great XML modules, and many more promising ones. But where
> is the _validating_ XML parser? I'm doing some XML work where a
> validating parser would be very nice, speed hit or not. I can work
> around it easily (this is perl :-), but it would save me some work.

XML::Checker.
Also see www.perl.com which links to Kip Hampton's XML.com article about
validating using XPath.

> The XML & Java combination has a LOT more corporate resources (read $$$)
> focused on it than Perl & XML. How many Java-based XML software
> announcements have you seen lately? Now compare that to Perl-based XML
> modules. The numbers don't compare very well. What can we do about this?

Very little, except produce our own XML modules that can do our work. And
you can help by praising those that do produce good XML modules and by
using the modules that work rather than those that don't (hint: XML::XPath
vs XML::DOM with XML::XQL). Apart from validation, what are you missing?

> I can't help write a validating parser, but I would be happy to help
> test it out. IMHO, more XML support would help sell perl into more
> corporate settings. Java is big into buzzwords, and XML is one of the
> biggest there is at the moment. And as we know PHBs like buzzwords, so
> that is one more point in Java's favor.

Actually XML is one area where mod_perl kicks Java's butt in some ways.
AxKit is *faster* than Cocoon. Please test and see for yourself if you
don't believe me. And building XML based web sites with AxKit is *really*
easy. I built modperl.sergeant.org in 10 days of spare time, including a
content management system for the news articles (note that half of the CMS
code is just a plain mod_perl handler). I'll stick an article online
shortly about how the site is constructed.

-- 
<Matt/>

    /||    ** Director and CTO **
   //||    **  AxKit.com Ltd   **  ** XML Application Serving **
  // ||    ** http://axkit.org **  ** XSLT, XPathScript, XSP  **
 // \\| // **     Personal Web Site: http://sergeant.org/     **
     \\//
     //\\
    //  \\

Re: Perl vs Java (XML Modules)

[Drew Taylor <dr...@openair.com>]

Matt Sergeant wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Drew Taylor wrote:
> 
> > I know this goes a little off topic, so I apologize in advance.
> 
> I changed the topic for you :-)

But now it seems like flame bait ;-)

> > One big sticking point with Perl I'm just starting to run into is XML.
> > Yes, Perl has great XML modules, and many more promising ones. But where
> > is the _validating_ XML parser? I'm doing some XML work where a
> > validating parser would be very nice, speed hit or not. I can work
> > around it easily (this is perl :-), but it would save me some work.
> 
> XML::Checker.
> Also see www.perl.com which links to Kip Hampton's XML.com article about
> validating using XPath.

I'll look more into XML::Checker. Apart from being alpha, it seems like
it will work nicely. I guess I could help with the alpha status if I
choose. :-)

> > The XML & Java combination has a LOT more corporate resources (read $$$)
> > focused on it than Perl & XML. How many Java-based XML software
> > announcements have you seen lately? Now compare that to Perl-based XML
> > modules. The numbers don't compare very well. What can we do about this?
> 
> Very little, except produce our own XML modules that can do our work. And
> you can help by praising those that do produce good XML modules and by
> using the modules that work rather than those that don't (hint: XML::XPath
> vs XML::DOM with XML::XQL). Apart from validation, what are you missing?

True. As for praise, XML::Parser does the job for me. In this specific
case, I'll be looking for something like <status>failure</status> in the
response to an XML request I send. I'd like to pull out just the section
that failed and be able to create another request from that XML chunk.
It's a little down the road, but I'm trying to plan today.

> > I can't help write a validating parser, but I would be happy to help
> > test it out. IMHO, more XML support would help sell perl into more
> > corporate settings. Java is big into buzzwords, and XML is one of the
> > biggest there is at the moment. And as we know PHBs like buzzwords, so
> > that is one more point in Java's favor.
> 
> Actually XML is one area where mod_perl kicks Java's butt in some ways.
> AxKit is *faster* than Cocoon. Please test and see for yourself if you
> don't believe me. And building XML based web sites with AxKit is *really*
> easy. I built modperl.sergeant.org in 10 days of spare time, including a
> content management system for the news articles (note that half of the CMS
> code is just a plain mod_perl handler). I'll stick an article online
> shortly about how the site is constructed.

When AxKit first came out, I was very excited about it but never had a
chance to play with it. And it gives me (and you I'm sure) great pride
that perl's XML app server is faster than the equivalent Java version.
;-) I hope to have a play server at home soon so that I can begin
playing with cool new toys like AxKit and A0. My experience with XML is
limited at the moment, but I'm learning quickly.

-- 
Drew Taylor
Software Engineer
OpenAir.com - Making Business a Breeze!
Open a free account today at www.openair.com