[DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>]

Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to use
message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
streaming data.

The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:

https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal

Below, please find the text for the proposal below.

Thanks,

Bruce



= RocketMQ Proposal =

== Abstract ==

RocketMQ is a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to
use message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
streaming data.

== Proposal ==

RocketMQ provides a message model including both pub/sub and P2P and it
supports both reliable FIFO and strict sequential message queues. It also
has the ability to accumulate a billion messages in a single queue,
provides mobile, internet-friendly protocols such as MQTT and HTTP.
RocketMQ also supports the ability to load data into Apache Hadoop for
offline storage or to handle stream processing for Apache Storm.

== Background ==

RocketMQ was developed at Alibaba in 2011 and has been used in production
there since that time. It can process the large amounts of events generated
by various systems and provides a common repository for many types of
consumers to access and process those events. RocketMQ also handles dozens
of types of events including trade order process, search, social network
activity stream and data pipeline. Every day at Alibaba, RocketMQ clusters
process more than 500 billion events. The Alibaba Group also uses RocketMQ
to provide message services for more than 3000 core applications.

RocketMQ was developed to meet Alibaba's particular use cases to provide
low latency message delivery and high throughput message sending. Alibaba
has also created its cornerstone product based on RocketMQ, a Platform as a
Service (PaaS) product named the Alibaba Cloud Platform (
https://intl.aliyun.com/). More than 100 companies use the RocketMQ open
source version today. We believe RocketMQ can benefit more people so, we
would like to share it via the ASF and begin developing a community of
developers and users via The Apache Way.


== Rationale ==

As background description, many organizations can benefit from a low
latency, reliable, high throughput, distributed platform. Its usage is
varied and we expect many new use cases to emerge. RocketMQ provides many
features to support many use cases from enterprise application integration,
to web applications to the flourishing of IoT applications.

== Current Status ==

=== Meritocracy ===

The intent of this proposal is to start building a diverse developer and
user community around RocketMQ following the ASF meritocracy model. Since
RocketMQ was open sourced, we have solicited contributions via the website
and presentations given to user groups and technical audiences and have
received positive feedback and contributions including clients for C++ and
.NET. We plan to continue this support for new contributors and work with
those who contribute significantly to the project to encourage them to
become committers.

=== Community ===

RocketMQ is currently being developed by engineers working for Alibaba
where it is highly used in a production environment. We also have active
users in or have received contributions from a diverse set of companies
including CMBC(China Minsheng Bank), Schneider Electric(
http://www.schneider-electric.com/), the China Railway Ministry official
ticketing website, China Union, Sina, Umei (http://sh.jumei.com), Chinese
Academy of Sciences and many more. We hope to grow the base of contributors
by inviting all those who offer significant contributions and excel through
the use of The Apache Way. Contributions from outside of Alibaba are now
being received by the RocketMQ project, including a dashboard, the
flume-rocketmq module, the storm-rocketmq and more.

To further this goal, the project currently makes use of GitHub project
features as well as a public mailing list via Google Groups.


=== Core Developers ===

RocketMQ is currently being developed by engineers from Alibaba and
Yeahmobi: Xiaorui Wang, Von Gosling, Jiangwei Jiang, Xinyu Zhou, Zhanhui
Li. Xiaorui Wang, one of Alibaba MOM project owners is also the originator
of the RocketMQ project. He has rich experience with open source software,
as well as being active within the RocketMQ community. Von Gosling, another
MOM project owner at Alibaba and co-creator of the RocketMQ project, is an
active open source software committer and has been an active contributor to
several projects in Alibaba, Apache community and Google Code. Von also has
deep experience with performance tuning, distributed system design and
coding. Longda, has been involved with several open source projects
released by Alibaba,especially jstorm project, which has donated to apache.
Xinyu Zhou and Wei Zhou, They have rich experience in distributed system
design and performance tuning, especially in message queue, big data, etc.
Zhanhui Li, is a developer at Yeahmobi who has a great passion for software
engineering, especially in fields of distributed system design and
development.

=== Aligment ===

The ASF is the natural choice to host the RocketMQ project as its goal of
encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision for
RocketMQ. The ASF is also the home to many other projects with which we are
familiar with and hope to integrate with RocketMQ including Apache Storm,
Flume and Hadoop. We believe that there will be mutual benefit by close
proximity to these and other projects.

== Known Risks ==

=== Orphaned products ===

The core developers currently work full-time on the RocketMQ project for
Alibaba. RocketMQ provides a critical internal infrastructure and has been
in production use at Alibaba since 2011, so there is no concern that it
will become an orphaned project.

=== Inexperience with Open Source ===

The core developers are all active contributors, users and followers of
open source. They are all already committers and contributors to the
RocketMQ Github project and several of them also have experience actively
contributing to open source projects. Though the core set of developers do
not have experience at the ASF, there are plans to onboard individuals to
the project who have ASF open source experience.

=== Homogenous Developers ===

The current core developers are from Alibaba and Yeahmobi but the goal is
to establish a vibrant developer community and we will actively encourage
new contributors.

=== Reliance on Salaried Developers ===

Currently, the developers are paid to work on RocketMQ for both Alibaba and
Yeahmobi. We look forward to building a strong community around the project
in order to encourage more contributors to join the project.

=== Relationships with Other Apache Products ===

RocketMQ is not currently integrated with any other ASF projects. Although
RocketMQ has some similarities to other ASF projects as a messaging server,
it does have different design goals. Please see the table below providing
some context for simple comparison to some other Apache messaging projects
at the ASF such as ActiveMQ and Kafka (apologies for the terrible MoinMoin
table formatting, its syntax is limited. For a much better formatted table,
please see the [[
https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/motivation|RocketMQ Github page]]).

 ||'''Messaging Product'''||'''Protocol and Specification'''||'''Order
Message'''||'''Message Filter'''||'''Server Triggered
Redelivery'''||'''Persistent Messaging'''||'''Retroactive
Consumers'''||'''Message Priority'''||'''High Availability and
Failover'''||'''Message Tracking'''||'''Configuration'''||'''Management and
Operation Tools'''||

 || ActiveMQ || Push model, supports OpenWire, Stomp, AMQP, HTTP, JMS, MQTT
|| Exclusive consumer or exclusive queues will ensure ordering || Supported
|| Not Supported || Supports very fast persistence using JDBC along with a
high performance journal，such as LevelDB and KahaDB || Supported ||
Supported || Supported, depending on storage, if Kahadb storage a ZooKeeper
server is required, maybe trigger split brain after rebooting half of a
two-node cluster || Not Supported || The default configuration is low
level, user need to optimize the configuration ||Supported ||

 || Kafka || Pull model, supports TCP || Ensure ordering of messages within
a partition || Supported, you can use Kafka Streams to filter messages ||
Not Supported || High performance file storage || Supported offset indicate
|| Not Supported || Supported, requires a ZooKeeper server || Not Supported
|| Kafka uses key-value pairs format for configuration. These values can be
supplied either from a file or programmatically. || Supported, use terminal
commands to expose core metrics ||

 || RocketMQ || Pull model, supports TCP, HTTP, MQTT, JMS || Ensure strict
ordering of messages, have no hot spot problem and can scale out gracefully
|| Supported, you can even upload yourself custom-built filter code
snippets || Supported || High performance and low latency file storage ||
Supported timestamp and offset 2 indicates || Not Supported ||
Supported,Master-Slave model, without anther kit || Supported || || All
configurations are off the shelf, user only needs to pay attention to a few
configurations || Supported, rich web and terminal command to expose core
metrics ||

=== A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===

While we respect the reputation of the Apache brand and have no doubt that
it will attract new contributors and users, our interest is primarily to
give RocketMQ a solid home as an open source project following an
established development model. More reason are provided in the Rationale
and Alignment sections.

== Documentation ==

Information about RocketMQ can be found on the Github project wiki [
https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ]

== Initial Source ==

RocketMQ has been under development at Alibaba since 2011. The source code
was opened up in 2012. It is currently hosted on Github using the Apache
License ([https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/blob/master/LICENSE]).

== External Dependencies ==

The dependencies all have ASF compatible licenses.

== Required Resources ==

=== Mailing lists ===

 * rocketmq-private (PMC discussion)
 * rocketmq-dev (developer discussion)
 * rocketmq-user (user discussion)
 * rocketmq-commits (SCM commits)
 * rocketmq-issues (JIRA issue feed)

=== Subversion Directory ===

Git is the preferred source control management system: git://
git.apache.org/RocketMQ

=== Issue Tracking ===

JIRA RocketMQ (RocketMQ)

=== Other Resources ===

The existing source code already has unit tests so we will make use of
existing Apache continuous testing infrastructure. The resulting load
should not be very large.

== Initial Committers ==

 * Xiaorui Wang <vintage.wang at gmail dot com>
 * Von Gosling <fengjia10 at gmail dot com>
 * Longda <hustjackie at gmail dot com>
 * Xinyu Zhou <zhou at xinyu dot im>
 * Zhanhui Li <lizhanhui at gmail dot com>
 * Wei Zhou <zhouwei198732 at gmail dot com>


== Affiliations ==

 * Xiaorui Wang: Alibaba
 * Von Gosling: Alibaba
 * Longda: Alibaba
 * Xinyu Zhou: Alibaba
 * Zhanhui Li: Yeahmobi
 * Wei Zhou: Alibaba
​
== Sponsors ==

=== Champion ===

Bruce Snyder bsnyder@apache.org

=== Nominated Mentors ===

 * Bruce Snyder bsnyder@apache.org
 * Brian McCallister brianm@apache.org
 * Willem Ning Jiang ningjiang@apache.org
 * Luke Han lukehan@apache.org

=== Sponsoring Entity ===

We are requesting the Incubator to sponsor this project.


-- 
perl -e 'print
unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'

ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>]

Hi Roman,

The question about the contributors is a valid concern, and one that I
raised myself with Von. This concern is hardly any different than what has
been raised with many other project proposals to the Incubator over the
years. One reason RocketMQ is interested in The Apache Way is to grow a
diverse base of committers and contributors. There's a wealth of experience
at the ASF and inside the Incubator to help a project to evolve in a
healthy manner. My interest is to help the project embody The Apache Way.

The good thing about RocketMQ is that the contributor list is currently
rather small which means that there is plenty of room for other folks who
are interested to begin contributing and earn committership.

I will leave your other question to Von's answer previous answers and his
further explanation below.

Bruce

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
>    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
>
> It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
>
> In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
>    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> wrote:
> > +1 !
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Cool.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
> >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy
> to
> >> use
> >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts
> of
> >> > streaming data.
> >> >
> >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> >> >
> >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> >> >
> >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
perl -e 'print
unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'

ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>]

This project is great with production usage from big giant in China,
and open sourced a while. But yes, they are not connected with
entire open source world yet, but I think now it's good time and
ASF is the right place:-)

RocketMQ is good sample for people who are willing to contribute
from a big developer community in China. As our Kylin story, people
are really interesting to not only just contribute code but also entire
project.
As I know, there are many others are seeking mentors and also committers
who could help them grow their project and community.

As mentor of this project, I would like to share with my experience with the
team to help them follow the Apache Way quickly.
But they need more help from IPMC and the entire community, please let
the team know if you have interesting to help:)

Thanks.
Luke




Best Regards!
---------------------

Luke Han

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 6:14 PM, vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi，John，Roman:
>
> I am vongosling. The creator of RocketMQ. Please let me, on behalf of the
> RocketMQ project, to talk about a period of history. May be it can explain
> why we wrote "RocketMQ has open source since 2012". Actually, RocketMQ is
> the third generation Distributed MOM product within alibaba. The other 2
> generation products, we call it "MetaQ". So you can think it  we created
> the MetaQ 1.0 and MetaQ 2.0.
> The biggest luminescent spot of MetaQ1 is its scalable text protocol and
> JTA support. In MetaQ 2, we let one broker support more partitions and less
> IO resources. MetaQ1 has open source since 2012. About this product , we
> can see from this link here https://github.com/killme2008/Metamorphosis.
> Maybe the follwing chinese texts will give us some clue.
>
> "MetaQ的淘宝版本已经发展到2.0乃至3.0版本，设计原则发生了变更，有兴趣的可以上它的官方网站看。”
>
> The text above definitely showing that MetaQ has developed to 2.0 and 3.0.
> No problem. In 3.0 version, we can not follow the previous name convention.
> We renamed it RocketMQ. hoping it will be as fast as Rocket, low latency in
> our high frequency trading scenario.Haha, yeah.Even now, MetaQ is still
> maintained by some alibaba‘s tech. enthusiast in Github.
>
> Like Roman said, "commit early, commit often" mentality, is always our open
> source belief. According to what I said before, we really hope to find a
> way to keep the same deploy, especially commit pace between Git
> repositories. Thanks Roman’s advice 😊
>
>
>  "there wasn't a ton of open source development on the product ". Thank's
> john question. Please believe our open source mentality. In past 7 years,
> With the alibaba business dramatical growth, our team faced a lot of
> system architecture
> and design challenges, we want to share our experience with every people.
> But, We also hope more people to join us, to help us to perfect messaging
> engine, which can bearing Trillion message  communication in the double
> eleven Shopping Festival every year. For this purpose, we open a survey for
> our customer as the link(https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/issues/1 and
> https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/issues/353)  shows.Knowing your
> customers, assembleing them together and making our community more health,
> more active~
>
>   "relationship with other apache products".There is no doubting, apache is
> the most famous open source organization. Many companies, especially those
> tech. companies, having benefited from apache's a ton of excellent open
> source projects. Alibaba is also One of the beneficiaries, RocketMQ used a
> lot of Apache Commons tools  in its every component.Also, this reason drive
> us to donate our product. As an old Chinese saying goes  “What is taken
> from the people is used in the interests of the people”. Here, we can
> replace people with apache hah~
>
> Also, IMHO, ActiveMQ, Kafka, RocektMQ and other apache MQ products. The
> relationship, like apache’s many
> streaming solutions(spark,flink,samza,storm etc.), they are
> not competitors, They both have their own designs and do well in their
> dedicated directions. BTW, within alibaba, in some bigdata departments,
> Kafka is still their first choice. Also this reason, in my team, we have
> some kafka tech. staffs to service them passionately.
>
>  Last. Nowadays, RocketMQ storage is custom-built for low-latency purpose,
> using JDK primitive FIle API and some JNI tech.. Different with activeMQ.
> we are not support many storage strategies now. but we are planning to
> extract storage layer. May be a  thin abstract layer, many concrete
> implementation adapter (leverage Cassandra, Derby  or some off heap storage
> engine). would occur. As another question, "cross platform
> clients cooperativity". as I said above, some staffs in my team, are
> dedicated to support service for kafka. they are developing anther product
> kafka-proxy, make use of kafka existence client. The full data streaming
> process is like this "kafka producer -> kafka proxy-> kafka consumer or
> rocketmq consumer " Moreover, we are absorbing community proactive guys, to
> assist us to complete cross language sdk like our design showing(
> https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/multi-language-sdk).
>
> As proposal said, the ASF is the natural choice to host the RocketMQ
> project as its goal of encouraging community-driven open source projects
> fits with our vision for RocketMQ.
>
> That's all, Thanks for everyone‘s advice and questions.
>
>
>
> Best regards ~
>
> from vongosling
>
> 2016-11-05 5:26 GMT+08:00 John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> > >    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
> > >
> > > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> > >
> > > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> > >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> > >
> >
> > So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I
> suspect
> > its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> > product and it was kept internal.
> >
> > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> > other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> > of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> > other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in
> their
> > code base.
> >
> > Some other ways to address this section:
> >
> > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities
> to
> > build cross platform clients?
> > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?
> >
> > etc..
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Roman.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > +1 !
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Cool.
> > > >>
> > > >> +1
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> > Apache
> > > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed,
> easy
> > > to
> > > >> use
> > > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large
> amounts
> > > of
> > > >> > streaming data.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Bruce
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nothing is impossible
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[vongosling <fe...@gmail.com>]

Hi，John，Roman:

I am vongosling. The creator of RocketMQ. Please let me, on behalf of the
RocketMQ project, to talk about a period of history. May be it can explain
why we wrote "RocketMQ has open source since 2012". Actually, RocketMQ is
the third generation Distributed MOM product within alibaba. The other 2
generation products, we call it "MetaQ". So you can think it  we created
the MetaQ 1.0 and MetaQ 2.0.
The biggest luminescent spot of MetaQ1 is its scalable text protocol and
JTA support. In MetaQ 2, we let one broker support more partitions and less
IO resources. MetaQ1 has open source since 2012. About this product , we
can see from this link here https://github.com/killme2008/Metamorphosis.
Maybe the follwing chinese texts will give us some clue.

"MetaQ的淘宝版本已经发展到2.0乃至3.0版本，设计原则发生了变更，有兴趣的可以上它的官方网站看。”

The text above definitely showing that MetaQ has developed to 2.0 and 3.0.
No problem. In 3.0 version, we can not follow the previous name convention.
We renamed it RocketMQ. hoping it will be as fast as Rocket, low latency in
our high frequency trading scenario.Haha, yeah.Even now, MetaQ is still
maintained by some alibaba‘s tech. enthusiast in Github.

Like Roman said, "commit early, commit often" mentality, is always our open
source belief. According to what I said before, we really hope to find a
way to keep the same deploy, especially commit pace between Git
repositories. Thanks Roman’s advice 😊


 "there wasn't a ton of open source development on the product ". Thank's
john question. Please believe our open source mentality. In past 7 years,
With the alibaba business dramatical growth, our team faced a lot of
system architecture
and design challenges, we want to share our experience with every people.
But, We also hope more people to join us, to help us to perfect messaging
engine, which can bearing Trillion message  communication in the double
eleven Shopping Festival every year. For this purpose, we open a survey for
our customer as the link(https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/issues/1 and
https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/issues/353)  shows.Knowing your
customers, assembleing them together and making our community more health,
more active~

  "relationship with other apache products".There is no doubting, apache is
the most famous open source organization. Many companies, especially those
tech. companies, having benefited from apache's a ton of excellent open
source projects. Alibaba is also One of the beneficiaries, RocketMQ used a
lot of Apache Commons tools  in its every component.Also, this reason drive
us to donate our product. As an old Chinese saying goes  “What is taken
from the people is used in the interests of the people”. Here, we can
replace people with apache hah~

Also, IMHO, ActiveMQ, Kafka, RocektMQ and other apache MQ products. The
relationship, like apache’s many
streaming solutions(spark,flink,samza,storm etc.), they are
not competitors, They both have their own designs and do well in their
dedicated directions. BTW, within alibaba, in some bigdata departments,
Kafka is still their first choice. Also this reason, in my team, we have
some kafka tech. staffs to service them passionately.

 Last. Nowadays, RocketMQ storage is custom-built for low-latency purpose,
using JDK primitive FIle API and some JNI tech.. Different with activeMQ.
we are not support many storage strategies now. but we are planning to
extract storage layer. May be a  thin abstract layer, many concrete
implementation adapter (leverage Cassandra, Derby  or some off heap storage
engine). would occur. As another question, "cross platform
clients cooperativity". as I said above, some staffs in my team, are
dedicated to support service for kafka. they are developing anther product
kafka-proxy, make use of kafka existence client. The full data streaming
process is like this "kafka producer -> kafka proxy-> kafka consumer or
rocketmq consumer " Moreover, we are absorbing community proactive guys, to
assist us to complete cross language sdk like our design showing(
https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/multi-language-sdk).

As proposal said, the ASF is the natural choice to host the RocketMQ
project as its goal of encouraging community-driven open source projects
fits with our vision for RocketMQ.

That's all, Thanks for everyone‘s advice and questions.



Best regards ~

from vongosling

2016-11-05 5:26 GMT+08:00 John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> >    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
> >
> > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> >
> > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> >
>
> So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I suspect
> its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> product and it was kept internal.
>
> I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in their
> code base.
>
> Some other ways to address this section:
>
> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
> etc..
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> > wrote:
> > > +1 !
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Cool.
> > >>
> > >> +1
> > >>
> > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> Apache
> > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy
> > to
> > >> use
> > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts
> > of
> > >> > streaming data.
> > >> >
> > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> > >> >
> > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Bruce
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>



-- 
Nothing is impossible

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>]

Looking forward for vote soon:)


Best Regards!
---------------------

Luke Han

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:11 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 9:08 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:19 AM, vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi, Guys:
> > >
> > > I have revised a little about RocketMQ proposal, adding some text to
> > focus
> > > our design attention about RocketMQ. Also, we have removed some
> > mistakenly
> > > imported dependency.
> >
> > Thanks! Based on your answers and the ones given by Bruce I think we're
> > all good
> > to go from the proposal point of view. Best of luck!
> >
>
> Agreed, hopefully we see the vote thread soon.
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 9:08 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:19 AM, vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi, Guys:
> >
> > I have revised a little about RocketMQ proposal, adding some text to
> focus
> > our design attention about RocketMQ. Also, we have removed some
> mistakenly
> > imported dependency.
>
> Thanks! Based on your answers and the ones given by Bruce I think we're
> all good
> to go from the proposal point of view. Best of luck!
>

Agreed, hopefully we see the vote thread soon.


>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:19 AM, vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Guys:
>
> I have revised a little about RocketMQ proposal, adding some text to focus
> our design attention about RocketMQ. Also, we have removed some mistakenly
> imported dependency.

Thanks! Based on your answers and the ones given by Bruce I think we're all good
to go from the proposal point of view. Best of luck!

Thanks,
Roman.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Willem Jiang <wi...@gmail.com>]

Hi Justin,

It's great to have you join the mentor team.

Willem Jiang

Blog: http://willemjiang.blogspot.com (English)
          http://jnn.iteye.com  (Chinese)
Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’d like my name be added to be a Mentor to the project. Assuming the
> project is willing to have me that is :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>]

Welcome Justin, that's really great:)

Thanks.
luke


Best Regards!
---------------------

Luke Han

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 1:07 PM, vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Justin:
>
> welcome you join our mentor list ~😊
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Von Gosling
>
> 2016-11-08 10:53 GMT+08:00 Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’d like my name be added to be a Mentor to the project. Assuming the
> > project is willing to have me that is :-)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Nothing is impossible
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[vongosling <fe...@gmail.com>]

Justin:

welcome you join our mentor list ~😊

Best Regards,

Von Gosling

2016-11-08 10:53 GMT+08:00 Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I’d like my name be added to be a Mentor to the project. Assuming the
> project is willing to have me that is :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Nothing is impossible

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>]

Hi Justin,

I have added your name to the proposal.

Bruce

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’d like my name be added to be a Mentor to the project. Assuming the
> project is willing to have me that is :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
perl -e 'print
unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'

ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

I’d like my name be added to be a Mentor to the project. Assuming the project is willing to have me that is :-)

Thanks,
Justin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[vongosling <fe...@gmail.com>]

Hi, Guys:

I have revised a little about RocketMQ proposal, adding some text to focus
our design attention about RocketMQ. Also, we have removed some mistakenly
imported dependency.

IMO, we are ready to accept contributions from other Apache projects 😊

Thanks every apacher's advice and help, We have reason to believe RocketMQ
is walking towards a more healthy and more active direction~


Best regards~

from Von Gosling

2016-11-07 18:55 GMT+08:00 John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>:

> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:08 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > ...- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ
> > communities to
> > > build cross platform clients?
> > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > > persistence stores?...
> >
> > It would be wrong to require a podling to create specific modules so
> > that it plays better with other Apache projects. I'm not saying you
> > are suggesting this John, but the above questions could be interpreted
> > like that.
> >
> >
> This question has already been clarified a second time for the proposal.
> Luke seems to have a handle on it and has made notions to update the
> proposal to sound less competitive and focus on what we typically see in
> this area.
>
> John
>
>
> > The ASF doesn't have a technical roadmap and doesn't influence our
> > project's technical direction - besides requirements for being serious
> > about security and quality as per
> > http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-
> maturity-model.html
> >
> > What's important IMO is whether the new podling is ready to accept
> > contributions from other Apache projects that enable things like
> > mentioned in the above questions.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>



-- 
Nothing is impossible

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

["John D. Ament" <jo...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:08 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > ...- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ
> communities to
> > build cross platform clients?
> > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?...
>
> It would be wrong to require a podling to create specific modules so
> that it plays better with other Apache projects. I'm not saying you
> are suggesting this John, but the above questions could be interpreted
> like that.
>
>
This question has already been clarified a second time for the proposal.
Luke seems to have a handle on it and has made notions to update the
proposal to sound less competitive and focus on what we typically see in
this area.

John


> The ASF doesn't have a technical roadmap and doesn't influence our
> project's technical direction - besides requirements for being serious
> about security and quality as per
> http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html
>
> What's important IMO is whether the new podling is ready to accept
> contributions from other Apache projects that enable things like
> mentioned in the above questions.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?...

It would be wrong to require a podling to create specific modules so
that it plays better with other Apache projects. I'm not saying you
are suggesting this John, but the above questions could be interpreted
like that.

The ASF doesn't have a technical roadmap and doesn't influence our
project's technical direction - besides requirements for being serious
about security and quality as per
http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html

What's important IMO is whether the new podling is ready to accept
contributions from other Apache projects that enable things like
mentioned in the above questions.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>]

Hi John,
      That make sense, I agree the proposal should refine to less
competitive
but more focus on it's own design and architecture.

      Would love to see that section to be updated before vote:-)

      Thanks
Luke


Best Regards!
---------------------

Luke Han

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 9:44 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:

> Luke, Von,
>
> thanks for the responses.  Some more comments in line.
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 7:48 AM vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi, john:
> >
> > Thank you providing AsterixDB proposal, so as to help our complement our
> > proposal. Or to say, give us some advice for RocketMQ community
> development
> > roadmap~
> >
> > Next, let me clarify some question we have talked about.
> >
> >
> > 1. About ONS and RocketMQ relationship~
> >
> > ONS is our Cloud Messaging Service, you also think it as our internal
> > messaging name. But it is built base on RocketMQ, adding some extra
> > features mainly associated with security, audit, web console, etc...
> Have
> > I made everything clear to you. If not, I can depict it using some
> > pictures~
> >
>
> I think I get it now.  Please update the proposal to note that Alibaba
> provides a service named ONS that is derived from RocketMQ.
>
>
> >
> >
> > 2. How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities
> to
> > build cross platform clients?
> >
> > IMO, excellent products, They must have a common feature. That is its
> > pluggable mechanism. We can use it, just like i have said in the latest
> > reply(we are developing kafka-proxy this product, in the near future, we
> > hope to invite kafka guys to make a technical exchange). We can use this
> > idea to integrate RocketMQ with Kafka and ActiveMQ ecosystem seamlessly.
> >
> > In addition, we are planning to draft some messaging specification.we
> want
> > it absorb the advantage of the existing Corbar‘s Notification Service
> > Specification, JMS, AMQP, MQTT and other text protocol.It not include API
> > layer standard, but also possess wireless protocol advantage. May be it
> > will experience a long time to discuss. But If an agreement is reached,
> may
> > be, no matter Kafka, ActiveMQ, RocketMQ or other MQ products, there was
> no
> > doubting that cross platform client is not a difficult thing because our
> > common cross-platform protocol.
> >
> > 3. How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?
> >
> > As I have said, nowadays, RocketMQ storage is custom-built for
> low-latency
> > purpose. It just use JDK primitive FIle API and some JNI tech..
> > In the next step, if we hope to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby or other
> > full-blown product, we must research them intensively, knowing about and
> > make sure they are suitable for our low latency design goal. At the same
> > time, we also abstract our storage layer(you can think it as SPI), let it
> > meet adaptor design pattern(We will also make use of JDK's service
> locator
> > pattern to support our storage SPI ). All these are in ready, many
> concrete
> > implementation adapter can be created, may be by RocketMQ project guys,
> may
> > be contributed by community enthusiast. if latter way, we must give some
> > guidance and help for them. The guidance seems like this
> > https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/multi-language-sdk.
> >
> >
> > Last, Thanks again every apache guys(Especially Bruce, Brian, Ross, John,
> > Roman, Greg, Jim etc... )magnanimous diverse culture. We have reasons to
> > believe that Apache is the most suitable home as an open source project
> > following an established development model. We are always willing to lend
> > an ear to the apache and communities, making our product ecosystem
> towards
> > a more healthy and more active direction~
> >
> >
> I think maybe take a look again at the response sent to Bruce yesterday.  I
> want to make sure you're understanding the concern I have.  Greg said it
> best - Apache products do not compete with one another.  I specifically
> want to see the "Relationships with Other Apache Products" section updated
> to focus on the consuming relationships, and limit the competitive aspects
> of it.  These questions were simply leading questions to try to give you
> some ideas of what you could put in that section.
>
> John
>
>
> >
> > Best Regards ~
> >
> > Von Gosling
> >
> >
> > 2016-11-06 17:20 GMT+08:00 Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >...
> > >
> > > > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache
> > products"
> > > > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes
> > with
> > > > other projects
> > >
> > >
> > > Apache projects don't "compete" with anybody. The source code is
> > *offered*
> > > to the public.
> > >
> > > As a 501(c)(3), we're specifically disallowed from competing with
> > > commercial organizations. But even within the ASF and other open source
> > > projects, the ASF is simply providing a home for communities to
> organize,
> > > to grow, to construct software for the public. At its most base level,
> > the
> > > Foundation doesn't care what the project does, how "successful" it is
> (by
> > > whatever metric), or if ten of its communities all produce software to
> do
> > > the same thing. Each community might have a different thought, a
> > different
> > > approach, or even something as minor as a different view on release
> > cycles.
> > >
> > > All communities are welcome.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > -g
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nothing is impossible
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

Luke, Von,

thanks for the responses.  Some more comments in line.

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 7:48 AM vongosling <fe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, john:
>
> Thank you providing AsterixDB proposal, so as to help our complement our
> proposal. Or to say, give us some advice for RocketMQ community development
> roadmap~
>
> Next, let me clarify some question we have talked about.
>
>
> 1. About ONS and RocketMQ relationship~
>
> ONS is our Cloud Messaging Service, you also think it as our internal
> messaging name. But it is built base on RocketMQ, adding some extra
> features mainly associated with security, audit, web console, etc...  Have
> I made everything clear to you. If not, I can depict it using some
> pictures~
>

I think I get it now.  Please update the proposal to note that Alibaba
provides a service named ONS that is derived from RocketMQ.


>
>
> 2. How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
>
> IMO, excellent products, They must have a common feature. That is its
> pluggable mechanism. We can use it, just like i have said in the latest
> reply(we are developing kafka-proxy this product, in the near future, we
> hope to invite kafka guys to make a technical exchange). We can use this
> idea to integrate RocketMQ with Kafka and ActiveMQ ecosystem seamlessly.
>
> In addition, we are planning to draft some messaging specification.we want
> it absorb the advantage of the existing Corbar‘s Notification Service
> Specification, JMS, AMQP, MQTT and other text protocol.It not include API
> layer standard, but also possess wireless protocol advantage. May be it
> will experience a long time to discuss. But If an agreement is reached, may
> be, no matter Kafka, ActiveMQ, RocketMQ or other MQ products, there was no
> doubting that cross platform client is not a difficult thing because our
> common cross-platform protocol.
>
> 3. How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
> As I have said, nowadays, RocketMQ storage is custom-built for low-latency
> purpose. It just use JDK primitive FIle API and some JNI tech..
> In the next step, if we hope to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby or other
> full-blown product, we must research them intensively, knowing about and
> make sure they are suitable for our low latency design goal. At the same
> time, we also abstract our storage layer(you can think it as SPI), let it
> meet adaptor design pattern(We will also make use of JDK's service locator
> pattern to support our storage SPI ). All these are in ready, many concrete
> implementation adapter can be created, may be by RocketMQ project guys, may
> be contributed by community enthusiast. if latter way, we must give some
> guidance and help for them. The guidance seems like this
> https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/multi-language-sdk.
>
>
> Last, Thanks again every apache guys(Especially Bruce, Brian, Ross, John,
> Roman, Greg, Jim etc... )magnanimous diverse culture. We have reasons to
> believe that Apache is the most suitable home as an open source project
> following an established development model. We are always willing to lend
> an ear to the apache and communities, making our product ecosystem towards
> a more healthy and more active direction~
>
>
I think maybe take a look again at the response sent to Bruce yesterday.  I
want to make sure you're understanding the concern I have.  Greg said it
best - Apache products do not compete with one another.  I specifically
want to see the "Relationships with Other Apache Products" section updated
to focus on the consuming relationships, and limit the competitive aspects
of it.  These questions were simply leading questions to try to give you
some ideas of what you could put in that section.

John


>
> Best Regards ~
>
> Von Gosling
>
>
> 2016-11-06 17:20 GMT+08:00 Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >...
> >
> > > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache
> products"
> > > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes
> with
> > > other projects
> >
> >
> > Apache projects don't "compete" with anybody. The source code is
> *offered*
> > to the public.
> >
> > As a 501(c)(3), we're specifically disallowed from competing with
> > commercial organizations. But even within the ASF and other open source
> > projects, the ASF is simply providing a home for communities to organize,
> > to grow, to construct software for the public. At its most base level,
> the
> > Foundation doesn't care what the project does, how "successful" it is (by
> > whatever metric), or if ten of its communities all produce software to do
> > the same thing. Each community might have a different thought, a
> different
> > approach, or even something as minor as a different view on release
> cycles.
> >
> > All communities are welcome.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -g
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nothing is impossible
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[vongosling <fe...@gmail.com>]

Hi, john:

Thank you providing AsterixDB proposal, so as to help our complement our
proposal. Or to say, give us some advice for RocketMQ community development
roadmap~

Next, let me clarify some question we have talked about.


1. About ONS and RocketMQ relationship~

ONS is our Cloud Messaging Service, you also think it as our internal
messaging name. But it is built base on RocketMQ, adding some extra
features mainly associated with security, audit, web console, etc...  Have
I made everything clear to you. If not, I can depict it using some
pictures~


2. How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
build cross platform clients?

IMO, excellent products, They must have a common feature. That is its
pluggable mechanism. We can use it, just like i have said in the latest
reply(we are developing kafka-proxy this product, in the near future, we
hope to invite kafka guys to make a technical exchange). We can use this
idea to integrate RocketMQ with Kafka and ActiveMQ ecosystem seamlessly.

In addition, we are planning to draft some messaging specification.we want
it absorb the advantage of the existing Corbar‘s Notification Service
Specification, JMS, AMQP, MQTT and other text protocol.It not include API
layer standard, but also possess wireless protocol advantage. May be it
will experience a long time to discuss. But If an agreement is reached, may
be, no matter Kafka, ActiveMQ, RocketMQ or other MQ products, there was no
doubting that cross platform client is not a difficult thing because our
common cross-platform protocol.

3. How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
persistence stores?

As I have said, nowadays, RocketMQ storage is custom-built for low-latency
purpose. It just use JDK primitive FIle API and some JNI tech..
In the next step, if we hope to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby or other
full-blown product, we must research them intensively, knowing about and
make sure they are suitable for our low latency design goal. At the same
time, we also abstract our storage layer(you can think it as SPI), let it
meet adaptor design pattern(We will also make use of JDK's service locator
pattern to support our storage SPI ). All these are in ready, many concrete
implementation adapter can be created, may be by RocketMQ project guys, may
be contributed by community enthusiast. if latter way, we must give some
guidance and help for them. The guidance seems like this
https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/multi-language-sdk.


Last, Thanks again every apache guys(Especially Bruce, Brian, Ross, John,
Roman, Greg, Jim etc... )magnanimous diverse culture. We have reasons to
believe that Apache is the most suitable home as an open source project
following an established development model. We are always willing to lend
an ear to the apache and communities, making our product ecosystem towards
a more healthy and more active direction~


Best Regards ~

Von Gosling


2016-11-06 17:20 GMT+08:00 Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >...
>
> > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> > other projects
>
>
> Apache projects don't "compete" with anybody. The source code is *offered*
> to the public.
>
> As a 501(c)(3), we're specifically disallowed from competing with
> commercial organizations. But even within the ASF and other open source
> projects, the ASF is simply providing a home for communities to organize,
> to grow, to construct software for the public. At its most base level, the
> Foundation doesn't care what the project does, how "successful" it is (by
> whatever metric), or if ten of its communities all produce software to do
> the same thing. Each community might have a different thought, a different
> approach, or even something as minor as a different view on release cycles.
>
> All communities are welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>



-- 
Nothing is impossible

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>...

> I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> other projects


Apache projects don't "compete" with anybody. The source code is *offered*
to the public.

As a 501(c)(3), we're specifically disallowed from competing with
commercial organizations. But even within the ASF and other open source
projects, the ASF is simply providing a home for communities to organize,
to grow, to construct software for the public. At its most base level, the
Foundation doesn't care what the project does, how "successful" it is (by
whatever metric), or if ten of its communities all produce software to do
the same thing. Each community might have a different thought, a different
approach, or even something as minor as a different view on release cycles.

All communities are welcome.

Cheers,
-g

RE: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>]

+1

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 4:46 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal
> 
> > My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a "this is why
> > RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why RocketMQ
> > differs from them" approach.
> 
> 
> > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ
> > communities to build cross platform clients?
> > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?
> 
> I'm afraid such question will misleading ASF's position for new project
> especially from a new community (not native English community, but maybe
> biggest one of the world) who are new to ASF and trying their best to learn and
> follow the Apache Way.
> 
> I don't think ASF community will ask every project have to use currently Apache
> project's client, library or anything else. There are many project just come here
> and grow to success without too much "cross".
> 
> IMO, such question should go to dev@ list if it will be accepted later. or just
> send to author separately:-)
> 
> Thanks
> Luke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
> 
> Luke Han
> 
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 2:53 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bruce,
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:21 PM Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for
> > > constructive feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ
> > > proposal and project
> > using
> > > your suggestions.
> > >
> > > First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von
> > > Gosling, there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to
> > > the Github repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging
> > > activity' the history was erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to
> > > mean that someone's git-fu
> > went
> > > awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von
> > > also
> > gives
> > > further explanation of the project history in a response below.
> > > Indeed, this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen
> > > before with
> > git),
> > > but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to
> > > improve and grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?
> > >
> >
> > I was simply trying to reiterate for Roman's sanity of what I
> > understood happened, based on Von's email, and my understanding of it.
> > I don't particularly see any concerns with it (as you mention, it
> > happens all of the time), but you may want to consider removing
> > notions that the software was open sourced in 2012, since it sounds like it
> was more of a mistake.
> > The ASF has no requirement that code coming has to be already open
> > sourced, we expect an SGA to be filed with the software coming in.
> >
> > FWIW, I still don't have a good understanding of OMS and its
> > relationship to RocketMQ.  It may be relevant (e.g. a commercial
> > product based on the open source product) or may be completely
> > irrelevant (internal project name vs external project name).
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since
> > > Bruce
> > is
> > > the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF
> > > exist together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good
> > > mentors, regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My
> > > interest in helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my
> > > interest in
> > continuing
> > > to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years
> > experience
> > > at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
> > > another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
> > > constructively with others on open source and to foster a community
> > > of inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The
> > > ASF is an inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn
> > > from new projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code
> > > and stay for the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a
> > > new project and people to the ASF.
> > >
> >
> > This is more of a concern of mine around the structure and content of
> > the proposal, and how some of it potentially leads to issues for the
> > eventual website around RocketMQ.  While the ASF will not limit itself
> > to a single product for a technological/functional area, I do see it
> > as an issue that a project provides references stating why you should
> > use "it" vs another Apache project.  I interpret the current
> > "Relationships to other Apache Products" section as being just that
> > right now.  My only edit to that area was to fix the moin-moin mark up
> > in use, since it wasn't creating a valid table (just as an FYI).
> >
> > Typically when podlings come in, that section lists out the
> > dependencies they have on existing ASF projects/products.  Hence why I
> > had responded with the list I sent out - that list is more akin to what we
> usually see.
> > Here's some example proposals that do that a bit cleaner from my POV:
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.
> >
> apache.org%2Fincubator%2FAsterixDBProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gard
> ler
> >
> %40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f
> 141af
> >
> 91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331941161239&sdata=y3hc8SOyjC
> 6pIcAiuK
> > TAEphCTYJtdPFzVTXM2iYGvK0%3D&reserved=0
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.
> >
> apache.org%2Fincubator%2FBrooklynProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardl
> er%
> >
> 40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f1
> 41af9
> >
> 1ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331941171248&sdata=7Bg23QhKnx
> 1Et2Lucbk
> > %2BnoH2NlbJj8NO75YjHUSNDbo%3D&reserved=0
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.
> >
> apache.org%2Fincubator%2FDistributedLogProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.
> Ga
> >
> rdler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988
> bf86f
> >
> 141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331941171248&sdata=%2BcI
> Z7lYKHOk
> > dMlms%2FoUj%2BEffRO3VyTEURHUmxPZJoHo%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > As you can see there's two specific things being answered here.  The
> > primary being how they already play a role in the existing ecosystem
> > by consuming the projects.  A secondary case, which I think is what
> > RocketMQ should aim to follow, is found closely in the AsterixDB
> > proposal.  They specifically call out how they complement other
> > products (e.g. Spark, without providing a full integration) and how they differ
> from them (e.g.
> > Pig/Hive, HBase).  My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a
> > "this is why RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why
> > RocketMQ differs from them" approach.
> >
> > The questions I asked were meant to be leading questions - not
> > necessarily answered in this proposal (or ever) but to give some ideas
> > of what should be in that section.  So I don't really expect the to be
> > dealt with at this time, or possibly ever.
> >
> > As an aside, I added a link to RocketMQ to the proposals page.  Saves
> > secretary a step (and hassle) as we get further down the line.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good
> > > suggestions for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the
> proposal.
> > Even
> > > if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be
> > > great ideas to debate around the code base and within the project
> > > moving
> > forward.
> > > I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you
> > mentioned
> > > as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the
> > > RocketMQ
> > code
> > > base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John
> > > with his
> > > thoughts:
> > >
> > > Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two
> > > questions
> > > specifically:
> > >
> > > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ
> > > communities
> > to
> > > build cross platform clients?
> > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as
> > > backend persistence stores?
> > >
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament
> > > <jo...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik
> > > > <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > > >
> Fgithub.com%2Falibaba%2FRocketMQ%2Fgraphs%2Fcontributors&data=02
> > > > >
> %7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40
> > > > >
> 642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331
> 94
> > > > >
> 1171248&sdata=FZwZJ3L6zXCZaD7zjVvABAaJKffHn0nvm%2FzjO3hpokA%3D&
> r
> > > > > eserved=0
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > > > > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial
> > > > > committers is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a
> > > > > lot of time making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality
> prevails.
> > > > >
> > > > > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> > > > >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > > > > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I
> > > suspect
> > > > its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on
> > > > the product and it was kept internal.
> > > >
> > > > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache
> > products"
> > > > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling
> > > > competes
> > with
> > > > other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair
> > > > of
> > one
> > > > of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies
> > > > with the other components.  I raised that they're using ASF
> > > > projects today in
> > > their
> > > > code base.
> > > >
> > > > Some other ways to address this section:
> > > >
> > > > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ
> > > > communities
> > > to
> > > > build cross platform clients?
> > > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as
> > > > backend persistence stores?
> > > >
> > > > etc..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Roman.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister
> > > > > <brianm@skife.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > +1 !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski
> > > > > > <ji...@jagunet.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Cool.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> +1
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <
> > bruce.snyder@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling
> > > > > >> > named
> > > > Apache
> > > > > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable,
> > > > > >> > distributed,
> > > easy
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> use
> > > > > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing
> > > > > >> > large
> > > amounts
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> > streaming data.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the
> > > > > >> > following
> > URL:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A
> > > > > >> >
> %2F%2Fwiki.apache.org%2Fincubator%2FRocketMQProposal&data=0
> > > > > >> >
> 2%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5
> > > > > >> >
> 008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C
> > > > > >> >
> 636140331941171248&sdata=Lrox9nCtgDyTWWb2X9z9LS2tGbytXbdjWe
> > > > > >> > yRDfD5cSQ%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Thanks,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Bruce
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -
> > > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > >> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.
> > org
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > > general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > perl -e 'print
> > > unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-
> N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'
> > >
> > > ActiveMQ in Action:
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.
> > >
> ly%2F2je6cQ&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6
> a3a
> > >
> 7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C
> 0%7C
> > >
> 636140331941171248&sdata=ijUwPN4i%2FSIHdWqMy9p9yvGpbJvGX24wPR0
> WyRSPq
> > > sg%3D&reserved=0
> > > Blog:
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbsny
> > >
> der.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a
> 3a7
> > >
> 840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0
> %7C6
> > >
> 36140331941171248&sdata=khyN21BrPdqO1XJJrGELmdv7zZXmfoRrf09S4MQ
> d9I0%
> > > 3D&reserved=0
> > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbru
> > >
> ceblog.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142a
> b6a
> > >
> 3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%
> 7C0%
> > >
> 7C636140331941171248&sdata=PWE97cdVSqIemvnMhHiHcu%2FA2iAKKbJ1E
> JB5Ohl
> > > wWjM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > Twitter:
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwit
> > >
> ter.com%2Fbrucesnyder&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%
> 7C
> > >
> 3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> 47%
> > >
> 7C1%7C0%7C636140331941171248&sdata=lICqb0tK%2BU1x0Wyy8zfJYC7Pn
> BfwoMd
> > > zZlv9xgIELn8%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> >

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>]

> My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a "this
> is why RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why RocketMQ
> differs from them" approach.


> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?

I'm afraid such question will misleading ASF's position for new project
especially
from a new community (not native English community, but maybe biggest one
of the world) who are new to ASF and trying their best to learn and follow
the
Apache Way.

I don't think ASF community will ask every project have to use
currently Apache
project's client, library or anything else. There are many project just
come here
and grow to success without too much "cross".

IMO, such question should go to dev@ list if it will be accepted later. or
just send
to author separately:-)

Thanks
Luke




Best Regards!
---------------------

Luke Han

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 2:53 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:21 PM Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for constructive
> > feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ proposal and project
> using
> > your suggestions.
> >
> > First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von Gosling,
> > there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to the Github
> > repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging activity' the history
> > was
> > erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to mean that someone's git-fu
> went
> > awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von also
> gives
> > further explanation of the project history in a response below. Indeed,
> > this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen before with
> git),
> > but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to improve and
> > grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?
> >
>
> I was simply trying to reiterate for Roman's sanity of what I understood
> happened, based on Von's email, and my understanding of it.  I don't
> particularly see any concerns with it (as you mention, it happens all of
> the time), but you may want to consider removing notions that the software
> was open sourced in 2012, since it sounds like it was more of a mistake.
> The ASF has no requirement that code coming has to be already open sourced,
> we expect an SGA to be filed with the software coming in.
>
> FWIW, I still don't have a good understanding of OMS and its relationship
> to RocketMQ.  It may be relevant (e.g. a commercial product based on the
> open source product) or may be completely irrelevant (internal project name
> vs external project name).
>
>
> >
> > Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since Bruce
> is
> > the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF exist
> > together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good mentors,
> > regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My interest in
> > helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my interest in
> continuing
> > to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years
> experience
> > at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
> > another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
> > constructively with others on open source and to foster a community of
> > inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The ASF is an
> > inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn from new
> > projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code and stay for
> > the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a new project and
> > people to the ASF.
> >
>
> This is more of a concern of mine around the structure and content of the
> proposal, and how some of it potentially leads to issues for the eventual
> website around RocketMQ.  While the ASF will not limit itself to a single
> product for a technological/functional area, I do see it as an issue that a
> project provides references stating why you should use "it" vs another
> Apache project.  I interpret the current "Relationships to other Apache
> Products" section as being just that right now.  My only edit to that area
> was to fix the moin-moin mark up in use, since it wasn't creating a valid
> table (just as an FYI).
>
> Typically when podlings come in, that section lists out the dependencies
> they have on existing ASF projects/products.  Hence why I had responded
> with the list I sent out - that list is more akin to what we usually see.
> Here's some example proposals that do that a bit cleaner from my POV:
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AsterixDBProposal
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BrooklynProposal
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DistributedLogProposal
>
> As you can see there's two specific things being answered here.  The
> primary being how they already play a role in the existing ecosystem by
> consuming the projects.  A secondary case, which I think is what RocketMQ
> should aim to follow, is found closely in the AsterixDB proposal.  They
> specifically call out how they complement other products (e.g. Spark,
> without providing a full integration) and how they differ from them (e.g.
> Pig/Hive, HBase).  My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a "this
> is why RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why RocketMQ
> differs from them" approach.
>
> The questions I asked were meant to be leading questions - not necessarily
> answered in this proposal (or ever) but to give some ideas of what should
> be in that section.  So I don't really expect the to be dealt with at this
> time, or possibly ever.
>
> As an aside, I added a link to RocketMQ to the proposals page.  Saves
> secretary a step (and hassle) as we get further down the line.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good suggestions
> > for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the proposal.
> Even
> > if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be great
> > ideas to debate around the code base and within the project moving
> forward.
> > I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you
> mentioned
> > as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the RocketMQ
> code
> > base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John with his
> > thoughts:
> >
> > Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two questions
> > specifically:
> >
> > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities
> to
> > build cross platform clients?
> > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> > > >    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
> > > >
> > > > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > > > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > > > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > > > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> > > >
> > > > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> > > >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > > > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> > > >
> > >
> > > So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I
> > suspect
> > > its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> > > product and it was kept internal.
> > >
> > > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache
> products"
> > > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes
> with
> > > other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of
> one
> > > of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> > > other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in
> > their
> > > code base.
> > >
> > > Some other ways to address this section:
> > >
> > > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities
> > to
> > > build cross platform clients?
> > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > > persistence stores?
> > >
> > > etc..
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Roman.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <brianm@skife.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > +1 !
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Cool.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <
> bruce.snyder@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> > > Apache
> > > > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed,
> > easy
> > > > to
> > > > >> use
> > > > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large
> > amounts
> > > > of
> > > > >> > streaming data.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following
> URL:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Bruce
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.
> org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > perl -e 'print
> > unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'
> >
> > ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
> > Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

["John D. Ament" <jo...@gmail.com>]

Hi Bruce,

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:21 PM Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for constructive
> feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ proposal and project using
> your suggestions.
>
> First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von Gosling,
> there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to the Github
> repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging activity' the history
> was
> erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to mean that someone's git-fu went
> awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von also gives
> further explanation of the project history in a response below. Indeed,
> this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen before with git),
> but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to improve and
> grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?
>

I was simply trying to reiterate for Roman's sanity of what I understood
happened, based on Von's email, and my understanding of it.  I don't
particularly see any concerns with it (as you mention, it happens all of
the time), but you may want to consider removing notions that the software
was open sourced in 2012, since it sounds like it was more of a mistake.
The ASF has no requirement that code coming has to be already open sourced,
we expect an SGA to be filed with the software coming in.

FWIW, I still don't have a good understanding of OMS and its relationship
to RocketMQ.  It may be relevant (e.g. a commercial product based on the
open source product) or may be completely irrelevant (internal project name
vs external project name).


>
> Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is
> the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF exist
> together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good mentors,
> regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My interest in
> helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my interest in continuing
> to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years experience
> at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
> another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
> constructively with others on open source and to foster a community of
> inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The ASF is an
> inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn from new
> projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code and stay for
> the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a new project and
> people to the ASF.
>

This is more of a concern of mine around the structure and content of the
proposal, and how some of it potentially leads to issues for the eventual
website around RocketMQ.  While the ASF will not limit itself to a single
product for a technological/functional area, I do see it as an issue that a
project provides references stating why you should use "it" vs another
Apache project.  I interpret the current "Relationships to other Apache
Products" section as being just that right now.  My only edit to that area
was to fix the moin-moin mark up in use, since it wasn't creating a valid
table (just as an FYI).

Typically when podlings come in, that section lists out the dependencies
they have on existing ASF projects/products.  Hence why I had responded
with the list I sent out - that list is more akin to what we usually see.
Here's some example proposals that do that a bit cleaner from my POV:

https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AsterixDBProposal
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BrooklynProposal
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DistributedLogProposal

As you can see there's two specific things being answered here.  The
primary being how they already play a role in the existing ecosystem by
consuming the projects.  A secondary case, which I think is what RocketMQ
should aim to follow, is found closely in the AsterixDB proposal.  They
specifically call out how they complement other products (e.g. Spark,
without providing a full integration) and how they differ from them (e.g.
Pig/Hive, HBase).  My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a "this
is why RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why RocketMQ
differs from them" approach.

The questions I asked were meant to be leading questions - not necessarily
answered in this proposal (or ever) but to give some ideas of what should
be in that section.  So I don't really expect the to be dealt with at this
time, or possibly ever.

As an aside, I added a link to RocketMQ to the proposals page.  Saves
secretary a step (and hassle) as we get further down the line.

John




>
> Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good suggestions
> for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the proposal. Even
> if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be great
> ideas to debate around the code base and within the project moving forward.
> I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you mentioned
> as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the RocketMQ code
> base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John with his
> thoughts:
>
> Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two questions
> specifically:
>
> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
>
> Bruce
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> > >    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
> > >
> > > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> > >
> > > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> > >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> > >
> >
> > So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I
> suspect
> > its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> > product and it was kept internal.
> >
> > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> > other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> > of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> > other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in
> their
> > code base.
> >
> > Some other ways to address this section:
> >
> > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities
> to
> > build cross platform clients?
> > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?
> >
> > etc..
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Roman.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > +1 !
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Cool.
> > > >>
> > > >> +1
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> > Apache
> > > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed,
> easy
> > > to
> > > >> use
> > > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large
> amounts
> > > of
> > > >> > streaming data.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Bruce
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> perl -e 'print
> unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'
>
> ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
> Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>]

Some folks may remember my state of the feather session a couple of years ago when I called for more awareness of the ASFs role in open source beyond English speaking countries. This was prompted by a fact finding trip to China.

RocketMQ and the team behind it was one of the projects I talked to. We discussed the Apache way at length, however I have not been involved with this proposal.

I'm excited to see this proposal. I hope we can bring this project and welcome the excellent team I met in China into the foundation. We will need to work hard to ensure the project is a success. Like other China born projects we will find that there are cultural differences that we need to understand, but this would not be the first time we, as a foundation and as individuals, accept an opportunity to grow in this way. Having met some of the proposing team I am confident that with the right mentors the project can succeed.

Bruce, thanks for stepping up to help.

Ross

---
Twitter: @rgardler

________________________________
From: Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 9:21:47 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

Hi John,

Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for constructive
feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ proposal and project using
your suggestions.

First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von Gosling,
there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to the Github
repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging activity' the history was
erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to mean that someone's git-fu went
awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von also gives
further explanation of the project history in a response below. Indeed,
this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen before with git),
but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to improve and
grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?

Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is
the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF exist
together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good mentors,
regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My interest in
helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my interest in continuing
to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years experience
at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
constructively with others on open source and to foster a community of
inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The ASF is an
inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn from new
projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code and stay for
the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a new project and
people to the ASF.

Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good suggestions
for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the proposal. Even
if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be great
ideas to debate around the code base and within the project moving forward.
I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you mentioned
as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the RocketMQ code
base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John with his
thoughts:

Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two questions
specifically:

- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
build cross platform clients?
- How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
persistence stores?


Bruce

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> >    https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Falibaba%2FRocketMQ%2Fgraphs%2Fcontributors&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=96ixj1Js5%2BytkM0Pru7nABYfTTYimOP5se5POgOMleo%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> >
> > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> >
>
> So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I suspect
> its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> product and it was kept internal.
>
> I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in their
> code base.
>
> Some other ways to address this section:
>
> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
> etc..
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> > wrote:
> > > +1 !
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Cool.
> > >>
> > >> +1
> > >>
> > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> Apache
> > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy
> > to
> > >> use
> > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts
> > of
> > >> > streaming data.
> > >> >
> > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.apache.org%2Fincubator%2FRocketMQProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=xjsmhUA5%2Ftnl5HnA4LtQnVGa5ddYybjaKIe3CRgS9S0%3D&reserved=0
> > >> >
> > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Bruce
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>



--
perl -e 'print
unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'

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Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>]

Hi John,

Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for constructive
feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ proposal and project using
your suggestions.

First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von Gosling,
there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to the Github
repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging activity' the history was
erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to mean that someone's git-fu went
awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von also gives
further explanation of the project history in a response below. Indeed,
this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen before with git),
but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to improve and
grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?

Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is
the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF exist
together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good mentors,
regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My interest in
helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my interest in continuing
to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years experience
at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
constructively with others on open source and to foster a community of
inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The ASF is an
inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn from new
projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code and stay for
the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a new project and
people to the ASF.

Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good suggestions
for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the proposal. Even
if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be great
ideas to debate around the code base and within the project moving forward.
I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you mentioned
as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the RocketMQ code
base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John with his
thoughts:

Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two questions
specifically:

- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
build cross platform clients?
- How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
persistence stores?


Bruce

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> >    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
> >
> > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> >
> > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> >
>
> So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I suspect
> its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> product and it was kept internal.
>
> I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in their
> code base.
>
> Some other ways to address this section:
>
> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
> etc..
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> > wrote:
> > > +1 !
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Cool.
> > >>
> > >> +1
> > >>
> > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> Apache
> > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy
> > to
> > >> use
> > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts
> > of
> > >> > streaming data.
> > >> >
> > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> > >> >
> > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Bruce
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>



-- 
perl -e 'print
unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'

ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

["John D. Ament" <jo...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
>    https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors
>
> It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
>
> In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
>    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
>

So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I suspect
its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
product and it was kept internal.

I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in their
code base.

Some other ways to address this section:

- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
build cross platform clients?
- How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
persistence stores?

etc..


>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>
> wrote:
> > +1 !
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Cool.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
> >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy
> to
> >> use
> >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts
> of
> >> > streaming data.
> >> >
> >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> >> >
> >> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> >> >
> >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>]

The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
   https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/graphs/contributors

It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.

In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
   "The source code was opened up in 2012."
with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?

Thanks,
Roman.

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org> wrote:
> +1 !
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
>> Cool.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
>> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to
>> use
>> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
>> > streaming data.
>> >
>> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
>> >
>> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
>> >
>> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Bruce
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>]

+1 !

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:

> Cool.
>
> +1
>
> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to
> use
> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
> > streaming data.
> >
> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> >
> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> >
> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bruce
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>]

Cool.

+1

> On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
> RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to use
> message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
> streaming data.
> 
> The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> 
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> 
> Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bruce


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

[vongosling <fe...@gmail.com>]

Hi，John:
      1. Our mentor Luke and Willem will rectify IPMC membership
later. Thank you for reminding😀~

      2. About another mentioned product ONS( is the abbreviation for Open
Notification Service)，which is maintained by Alibaba. Custom-built product for
enterprise and cloud application.It based on RocketMQ(RocketMQ not depend
ONS),adding some value added service, such as security, audit, web console
etc. We asked about RocketMQ brand thing with ASF chairman Ross when he
came to china previously，so we make another name ONS since then~

      3. Sparse revision. hah~~~ It can be talked about from la long time
ago, our one core committer commit some sensitive data in Github because
of oversight. Some one day, our Security department supervisor found me,
“Why do you commit some company related secret data to Github, Why ?” The
end of the story is the same as you think. Because revision history, we
must erase it. So we reset our commit history using git command. BTW,
RocketMQ has open source since 2012. For simplicity in local community, we
also push our code to our local famous Git repository except for Github(But
it's unlucky, we also erase it in last scavenging activity). We want to
develop borderless open source and make the same release
pace within company. So, we comply with apache way, also hope some advice
from community to help us improve our product.

     4. It was a slight overlook on my part. Derby and Apache Commons-IO
dependency can be removed(Its' useless in our latest version ). RocketMQ
uses JNA to solve the latency issue in storage, and we found that JNA also
is under the Apache Software License(
https://github.com/java-native-access/jna#license). If JNA is incompatible
with Apache License, we can replace it with JNI, actually we are planning
to do this.


Last but not important, we hope to more and more people join us, we are
always very happy to have contributions, whether for trivial cleanups, big
new features or other material rewards. For this purpose, we started one
issue thread(https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/issues/353) to assemble
some enthusiast to join us. to make our community more active, to make our
service more attractive~

2016-11-04 6:42 GMT+08:00 John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>:

> Bruce,
>
> While Willem and Luke are both foundation members, neither is on the IPMC.
> That's easy enough to rectify if you can get them to send appropriate
> emails out requesting membership.
>
> I'm assuming the mailing lists will all be in the new format of
> list@rocketmq.i.a.o
>
> The RocketMQ github site mentions "Alibaba's MQ, also aliyun ONS.
> http://www.aliyun.com/product/ons" Can you explain the relationship to
> Aliyun ONS? (the link is dead)
>
> I notice that the revision history is pretty sparse.  I'm assuming that it
> was mostly maintained internal and not fully open sourced until recently?
>
> I notice in the proposal that its mentioned RocketMQ doesn't integration
> with existing Apache projects - but it currently declares dependencies on
> Commons IO, CLI, Derby to name a few.  The only license that sticks out is
> JNA, which itself has a weird licensing scheme.  Not a blocker for
> incubation, but may require some trickery at release time.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 6:10 PM Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to
> use
> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
> > streaming data.
> >
> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> >
> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
> >
> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > = RocketMQ Proposal =
> >
> > == Abstract ==
> >
> > RocketMQ is a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to
> > use message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts
> of
> > streaming data.
> >
> > == Proposal ==
> >
> > RocketMQ provides a message model including both pub/sub and P2P and it
> > supports both reliable FIFO and strict sequential message queues. It also
> > has the ability to accumulate a billion messages in a single queue,
> > provides mobile, internet-friendly protocols such as MQTT and HTTP.
> > RocketMQ also supports the ability to load data into Apache Hadoop for
> > offline storage or to handle stream processing for Apache Storm.
> >
> > == Background ==
> >
> > RocketMQ was developed at Alibaba in 2011 and has been used in production
> > there since that time. It can process the large amounts of events
> generated
> > by various systems and provides a common repository for many types of
> > consumers to access and process those events. RocketMQ also handles
> dozens
> > of types of events including trade order process, search, social network
> > activity stream and data pipeline. Every day at Alibaba, RocketMQ
> clusters
> > process more than 500 billion events. The Alibaba Group also uses
> RocketMQ
> > to provide message services for more than 3000 core applications.
> >
> > RocketMQ was developed to meet Alibaba's particular use cases to provide
> > low latency message delivery and high throughput message sending. Alibaba
> > has also created its cornerstone product based on RocketMQ, a Platform
> as a
> > Service (PaaS) product named the Alibaba Cloud Platform (
> > https://intl.aliyun.com/). More than 100 companies use the RocketMQ open
> > source version today. We believe RocketMQ can benefit more people so, we
> > would like to share it via the ASF and begin developing a community of
> > developers and users via The Apache Way.
> >
> >
> > == Rationale ==
> >
> > As background description, many organizations can benefit from a low
> > latency, reliable, high throughput, distributed platform. Its usage is
> > varied and we expect many new use cases to emerge. RocketMQ provides many
> > features to support many use cases from enterprise application
> integration,
> > to web applications to the flourishing of IoT applications.
> >
> > == Current Status ==
> >
> > === Meritocracy ===
> >
> > The intent of this proposal is to start building a diverse developer and
> > user community around RocketMQ following the ASF meritocracy model. Since
> > RocketMQ was open sourced, we have solicited contributions via the
> website
> > and presentations given to user groups and technical audiences and have
> > received positive feedback and contributions including clients for C++
> and
> > .NET. We plan to continue this support for new contributors and work with
> > those who contribute significantly to the project to encourage them to
> > become committers.
> >
> > === Community ===
> >
> > RocketMQ is currently being developed by engineers working for Alibaba
> > where it is highly used in a production environment. We also have active
> > users in or have received contributions from a diverse set of companies
> > including CMBC(China Minsheng Bank), Schneider Electric(
> > http://www.schneider-electric.com/), the China Railway Ministry official
> > ticketing website, China Union, Sina, Umei (http://sh.jumei.com),
> Chinese
> > Academy of Sciences and many more. We hope to grow the base of
> contributors
> > by inviting all those who offer significant contributions and excel
> through
> > the use of The Apache Way. Contributions from outside of Alibaba are now
> > being received by the RocketMQ project, including a dashboard, the
> > flume-rocketmq module, the storm-rocketmq and more.
> >
> > To further this goal, the project currently makes use of GitHub project
> > features as well as a public mailing list via Google Groups.
> >
> >
> > === Core Developers ===
> >
> > RocketMQ is currently being developed by engineers from Alibaba and
> > Yeahmobi: Xiaorui Wang, Von Gosling, Jiangwei Jiang, Xinyu Zhou, Zhanhui
> > Li. Xiaorui Wang, one of Alibaba MOM project owners is also the
> originator
> > of the RocketMQ project. He has rich experience with open source
> software,
> > as well as being active within the RocketMQ community. Von Gosling,
> another
> > MOM project owner at Alibaba and co-creator of the RocketMQ project, is
> an
> > active open source software committer and has been an active contributor
> to
> > several projects in Alibaba, Apache community and Google Code. Von also
> has
> > deep experience with performance tuning, distributed system design and
> > coding. Longda, has been involved with several open source projects
> > released by Alibaba,especially jstorm project, which has donated to
> apache.
> > Xinyu Zhou and Wei Zhou, They have rich experience in distributed system
> > design and performance tuning, especially in message queue, big data,
> etc.
> > Zhanhui Li, is a developer at Yeahmobi who has a great passion for
> software
> > engineering, especially in fields of distributed system design and
> > development.
> >
> > === Aligment ===
> >
> > The ASF is the natural choice to host the RocketMQ project as its goal of
> > encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision
> for
> > RocketMQ. The ASF is also the home to many other projects with which we
> are
> > familiar with and hope to integrate with RocketMQ including Apache Storm,
> > Flume and Hadoop. We believe that there will be mutual benefit by close
> > proximity to these and other projects.
> >
> > == Known Risks ==
> >
> > === Orphaned products ===
> >
> > The core developers currently work full-time on the RocketMQ project for
> > Alibaba. RocketMQ provides a critical internal infrastructure and has
> been
> > in production use at Alibaba since 2011, so there is no concern that it
> > will become an orphaned project.
> >
> > === Inexperience with Open Source ===
> >
> > The core developers are all active contributors, users and followers of
> > open source. They are all already committers and contributors to the
> > RocketMQ Github project and several of them also have experience actively
> > contributing to open source projects. Though the core set of developers
> do
> > not have experience at the ASF, there are plans to onboard individuals to
> > the project who have ASF open source experience.
> >
> > === Homogenous Developers ===
> >
> > The current core developers are from Alibaba and Yeahmobi but the goal is
> > to establish a vibrant developer community and we will actively encourage
> > new contributors.
> >
> > === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> >
> > Currently, the developers are paid to work on RocketMQ for both Alibaba
> and
> > Yeahmobi. We look forward to building a strong community around the
> project
> > in order to encourage more contributors to join the project.
> >
> > === Relationships with Other Apache Products ===
> >
> > RocketMQ is not currently integrated with any other ASF projects.
> Although
> > RocketMQ has some similarities to other ASF projects as a messaging
> server,
> > it does have different design goals. Please see the table below providing
> > some context for simple comparison to some other Apache messaging
> projects
> > at the ASF such as ActiveMQ and Kafka (apologies for the terrible
> MoinMoin
> > table formatting, its syntax is limited. For a much better formatted
> table,
> > please see the [[
> > https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/motivation|RocketMQ Github
> > page]]).
> >
> >  ||'''Messaging Product'''||'''Protocol and Specification'''||'''Order
> > Message'''||'''Message Filter'''||'''Server Triggered
> > Redelivery'''||'''Persistent Messaging'''||'''Retroactive
> > Consumers'''||'''Message Priority'''||'''High Availability and
> > Failover'''||'''Message Tracking'''||'''Configuration'''||'''Management
> and
> > Operation Tools'''||
> >
> >  || ActiveMQ || Push model, supports OpenWire, Stomp, AMQP, HTTP, JMS,
> MQTT
> > || Exclusive consumer or exclusive queues will ensure ordering ||
> Supported
> > || Not Supported || Supports very fast persistence using JDBC along with
> a
> > high performance journal，such as LevelDB and KahaDB || Supported ||
> > Supported || Supported, depending on storage, if Kahadb storage a
> ZooKeeper
> > server is required, maybe trigger split brain after rebooting half of a
> > two-node cluster || Not Supported || The default configuration is low
> > level, user need to optimize the configuration ||Supported ||
> >
> >  || Kafka || Pull model, supports TCP || Ensure ordering of messages
> within
> > a partition || Supported, you can use Kafka Streams to filter messages ||
> > Not Supported || High performance file storage || Supported offset
> indicate
> > || Not Supported || Supported, requires a ZooKeeper server || Not
> Supported
> > || Kafka uses key-value pairs format for configuration. These values can
> be
> > supplied either from a file or programmatically. || Supported, use
> terminal
> > commands to expose core metrics ||
> >
> >  || RocketMQ || Pull model, supports TCP, HTTP, MQTT, JMS || Ensure
> strict
> > ordering of messages, have no hot spot problem and can scale out
> gracefully
> > || Supported, you can even upload yourself custom-built filter code
> > snippets || Supported || High performance and low latency file storage ||
> > Supported timestamp and offset 2 indicates || Not Supported ||
> > Supported,Master-Slave model, without anther kit || Supported || || All
> > configurations are off the shelf, user only needs to pay attention to a
> few
> > configurations || Supported, rich web and terminal command to expose core
> > metrics ||
> >
> > === A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> >
> > While we respect the reputation of the Apache brand and have no doubt
> that
> > it will attract new contributors and users, our interest is primarily to
> > give RocketMQ a solid home as an open source project following an
> > established development model. More reason are provided in the Rationale
> > and Alignment sections.
> >
> > == Documentation ==
> >
> > Information about RocketMQ can be found on the Github project wiki [
> > https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ]
> >
> > == Initial Source ==
> >
> > RocketMQ has been under development at Alibaba since 2011. The source
> code
> > was opened up in 2012. It is currently hosted on Github using the Apache
> > License ([https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/blob/master/LICENSE]).
> >
> > == External Dependencies ==
> >
> > The dependencies all have ASF compatible licenses.
> >
> > == Required Resources ==
> >
> > === Mailing lists ===
> >
> >  * rocketmq-private (PMC discussion)
> >  * rocketmq-dev (developer discussion)
> >  * rocketmq-user (user discussion)
> >  * rocketmq-commits (SCM commits)
> >  * rocketmq-issues (JIRA issue feed)
> >
> > === Subversion Directory ===
> >
> > Git is the preferred source control management system: git://
> > git.apache.org/RocketMQ
> >
> > === Issue Tracking ===
> >
> > JIRA RocketMQ (RocketMQ)
> >
> > === Other Resources ===
> >
> > The existing source code already has unit tests so we will make use of
> > existing Apache continuous testing infrastructure. The resulting load
> > should not be very large.
> >
> > == Initial Committers ==
> >
> >  * Xiaorui Wang <vintage.wang at gmail dot com>
> >  * Von Gosling <fengjia10 at gmail dot com>
> >  * Longda <hustjackie at gmail dot com>
> >  * Xinyu Zhou <zhou at xinyu dot im>
> >  * Zhanhui Li <lizhanhui at gmail dot com>
> >  * Wei Zhou <zhouwei198732 at gmail dot com>
> >
> >
> > == Affiliations ==
> >
> >  * Xiaorui Wang: Alibaba
> >  * Von Gosling: Alibaba
> >  * Longda: Alibaba
> >  * Xinyu Zhou: Alibaba
> >  * Zhanhui Li: Yeahmobi
> >  * Wei Zhou: Alibaba
> > ​
> > == Sponsors ==
> >
> > === Champion ===
> >
> > Bruce Snyder bsnyder@apache.org
> >
> > === Nominated Mentors ===
> >
> >  * Bruce Snyder bsnyder@apache.org
> >  * Brian McCallister brianm@apache.org
> >  * Willem Ning Jiang ningjiang@apache.org
> >  * Luke Han lukehan@apache.org
> >
> > === Sponsoring Entity ===
> >
> > We are requesting the Incubator to sponsor this project.
> >
> >
> > --
> > perl -e 'print
> > unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'
> >
> > ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
> > Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder
> >
>



-- 
Nothing is impossible

Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

Bruce,

While Willem and Luke are both foundation members, neither is on the IPMC.
That's easy enough to rectify if you can get them to send appropriate
emails out requesting membership.

I'm assuming the mailing lists will all be in the new format of
list@rocketmq.i.a.o

The RocketMQ github site mentions "Alibaba's MQ, also aliyun ONS.
http://www.aliyun.com/product/ons" Can you explain the relationship to
Aliyun ONS? (the link is dead)

I notice that the revision history is pretty sparse.  I'm assuming that it
was mostly maintained internal and not fully open sourced until recently?

I notice in the proposal that its mentioned RocketMQ doesn't integration
with existing Apache projects - but it currently declares dependencies on
Commons IO, CLI, Derby to name a few.  The only license that sticks out is
JNA, which itself has a weird licensing scheme.  Not a blocker for
incubation, but may require some trickery at release time.

John

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 6:10 PM Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named Apache
> RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to use
> message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
> streaming data.
>
> The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RocketMQProposal
>
> Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> = RocketMQ Proposal =
>
> == Abstract ==
>
> RocketMQ is a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed, easy to
> use message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large amounts of
> streaming data.
>
> == Proposal ==
>
> RocketMQ provides a message model including both pub/sub and P2P and it
> supports both reliable FIFO and strict sequential message queues. It also
> has the ability to accumulate a billion messages in a single queue,
> provides mobile, internet-friendly protocols such as MQTT and HTTP.
> RocketMQ also supports the ability to load data into Apache Hadoop for
> offline storage or to handle stream processing for Apache Storm.
>
> == Background ==
>
> RocketMQ was developed at Alibaba in 2011 and has been used in production
> there since that time. It can process the large amounts of events generated
> by various systems and provides a common repository for many types of
> consumers to access and process those events. RocketMQ also handles dozens
> of types of events including trade order process, search, social network
> activity stream and data pipeline. Every day at Alibaba, RocketMQ clusters
> process more than 500 billion events. The Alibaba Group also uses RocketMQ
> to provide message services for more than 3000 core applications.
>
> RocketMQ was developed to meet Alibaba's particular use cases to provide
> low latency message delivery and high throughput message sending. Alibaba
> has also created its cornerstone product based on RocketMQ, a Platform as a
> Service (PaaS) product named the Alibaba Cloud Platform (
> https://intl.aliyun.com/). More than 100 companies use the RocketMQ open
> source version today. We believe RocketMQ can benefit more people so, we
> would like to share it via the ASF and begin developing a community of
> developers and users via The Apache Way.
>
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> As background description, many organizations can benefit from a low
> latency, reliable, high throughput, distributed platform. Its usage is
> varied and we expect many new use cases to emerge. RocketMQ provides many
> features to support many use cases from enterprise application integration,
> to web applications to the flourishing of IoT applications.
>
> == Current Status ==
>
> === Meritocracy ===
>
> The intent of this proposal is to start building a diverse developer and
> user community around RocketMQ following the ASF meritocracy model. Since
> RocketMQ was open sourced, we have solicited contributions via the website
> and presentations given to user groups and technical audiences and have
> received positive feedback and contributions including clients for C++ and
> .NET. We plan to continue this support for new contributors and work with
> those who contribute significantly to the project to encourage them to
> become committers.
>
> === Community ===
>
> RocketMQ is currently being developed by engineers working for Alibaba
> where it is highly used in a production environment. We also have active
> users in or have received contributions from a diverse set of companies
> including CMBC(China Minsheng Bank), Schneider Electric(
> http://www.schneider-electric.com/), the China Railway Ministry official
> ticketing website, China Union, Sina, Umei (http://sh.jumei.com), Chinese
> Academy of Sciences and many more. We hope to grow the base of contributors
> by inviting all those who offer significant contributions and excel through
> the use of The Apache Way. Contributions from outside of Alibaba are now
> being received by the RocketMQ project, including a dashboard, the
> flume-rocketmq module, the storm-rocketmq and more.
>
> To further this goal, the project currently makes use of GitHub project
> features as well as a public mailing list via Google Groups.
>
>
> === Core Developers ===
>
> RocketMQ is currently being developed by engineers from Alibaba and
> Yeahmobi: Xiaorui Wang, Von Gosling, Jiangwei Jiang, Xinyu Zhou, Zhanhui
> Li. Xiaorui Wang, one of Alibaba MOM project owners is also the originator
> of the RocketMQ project. He has rich experience with open source software,
> as well as being active within the RocketMQ community. Von Gosling, another
> MOM project owner at Alibaba and co-creator of the RocketMQ project, is an
> active open source software committer and has been an active contributor to
> several projects in Alibaba, Apache community and Google Code. Von also has
> deep experience with performance tuning, distributed system design and
> coding. Longda, has been involved with several open source projects
> released by Alibaba,especially jstorm project, which has donated to apache.
> Xinyu Zhou and Wei Zhou, They have rich experience in distributed system
> design and performance tuning, especially in message queue, big data, etc.
> Zhanhui Li, is a developer at Yeahmobi who has a great passion for software
> engineering, especially in fields of distributed system design and
> development.
>
> === Aligment ===
>
> The ASF is the natural choice to host the RocketMQ project as its goal of
> encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision for
> RocketMQ. The ASF is also the home to many other projects with which we are
> familiar with and hope to integrate with RocketMQ including Apache Storm,
> Flume and Hadoop. We believe that there will be mutual benefit by close
> proximity to these and other projects.
>
> == Known Risks ==
>
> === Orphaned products ===
>
> The core developers currently work full-time on the RocketMQ project for
> Alibaba. RocketMQ provides a critical internal infrastructure and has been
> in production use at Alibaba since 2011, so there is no concern that it
> will become an orphaned project.
>
> === Inexperience with Open Source ===
>
> The core developers are all active contributors, users and followers of
> open source. They are all already committers and contributors to the
> RocketMQ Github project and several of them also have experience actively
> contributing to open source projects. Though the core set of developers do
> not have experience at the ASF, there are plans to onboard individuals to
> the project who have ASF open source experience.
>
> === Homogenous Developers ===
>
> The current core developers are from Alibaba and Yeahmobi but the goal is
> to establish a vibrant developer community and we will actively encourage
> new contributors.
>
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
>
> Currently, the developers are paid to work on RocketMQ for both Alibaba and
> Yeahmobi. We look forward to building a strong community around the project
> in order to encourage more contributors to join the project.
>
> === Relationships with Other Apache Products ===
>
> RocketMQ is not currently integrated with any other ASF projects. Although
> RocketMQ has some similarities to other ASF projects as a messaging server,
> it does have different design goals. Please see the table below providing
> some context for simple comparison to some other Apache messaging projects
> at the ASF such as ActiveMQ and Kafka (apologies for the terrible MoinMoin
> table formatting, its syntax is limited. For a much better formatted table,
> please see the [[
> https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/wiki/motivation|RocketMQ Github
> page]]).
>
>  ||'''Messaging Product'''||'''Protocol and Specification'''||'''Order
> Message'''||'''Message Filter'''||'''Server Triggered
> Redelivery'''||'''Persistent Messaging'''||'''Retroactive
> Consumers'''||'''Message Priority'''||'''High Availability and
> Failover'''||'''Message Tracking'''||'''Configuration'''||'''Management and
> Operation Tools'''||
>
>  || ActiveMQ || Push model, supports OpenWire, Stomp, AMQP, HTTP, JMS, MQTT
> || Exclusive consumer or exclusive queues will ensure ordering || Supported
> || Not Supported || Supports very fast persistence using JDBC along with a
> high performance journal，such as LevelDB and KahaDB || Supported ||
> Supported || Supported, depending on storage, if Kahadb storage a ZooKeeper
> server is required, maybe trigger split brain after rebooting half of a
> two-node cluster || Not Supported || The default configuration is low
> level, user need to optimize the configuration ||Supported ||
>
>  || Kafka || Pull model, supports TCP || Ensure ordering of messages within
> a partition || Supported, you can use Kafka Streams to filter messages ||
> Not Supported || High performance file storage || Supported offset indicate
> || Not Supported || Supported, requires a ZooKeeper server || Not Supported
> || Kafka uses key-value pairs format for configuration. These values can be
> supplied either from a file or programmatically. || Supported, use terminal
> commands to expose core metrics ||
>
>  || RocketMQ || Pull model, supports TCP, HTTP, MQTT, JMS || Ensure strict
> ordering of messages, have no hot spot problem and can scale out gracefully
> || Supported, you can even upload yourself custom-built filter code
> snippets || Supported || High performance and low latency file storage ||
> Supported timestamp and offset 2 indicates || Not Supported ||
> Supported,Master-Slave model, without anther kit || Supported || || All
> configurations are off the shelf, user only needs to pay attention to a few
> configurations || Supported, rich web and terminal command to expose core
> metrics ||
>
> === A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
>
> While we respect the reputation of the Apache brand and have no doubt that
> it will attract new contributors and users, our interest is primarily to
> give RocketMQ a solid home as an open source project following an
> established development model. More reason are provided in the Rationale
> and Alignment sections.
>
> == Documentation ==
>
> Information about RocketMQ can be found on the Github project wiki [
> https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ]
>
> == Initial Source ==
>
> RocketMQ has been under development at Alibaba since 2011. The source code
> was opened up in 2012. It is currently hosted on Github using the Apache
> License ([https://github.com/alibaba/RocketMQ/blob/master/LICENSE]).
>
> == External Dependencies ==
>
> The dependencies all have ASF compatible licenses.
>
> == Required Resources ==
>
> === Mailing lists ===
>
>  * rocketmq-private (PMC discussion)
>  * rocketmq-dev (developer discussion)
>  * rocketmq-user (user discussion)
>  * rocketmq-commits (SCM commits)
>  * rocketmq-issues (JIRA issue feed)
>
> === Subversion Directory ===
>
> Git is the preferred source control management system: git://
> git.apache.org/RocketMQ
>
> === Issue Tracking ===
>
> JIRA RocketMQ (RocketMQ)
>
> === Other Resources ===
>
> The existing source code already has unit tests so we will make use of
> existing Apache continuous testing infrastructure. The resulting load
> should not be very large.
>
> == Initial Committers ==
>
>  * Xiaorui Wang <vintage.wang at gmail dot com>
>  * Von Gosling <fengjia10 at gmail dot com>
>  * Longda <hustjackie at gmail dot com>
>  * Xinyu Zhou <zhou at xinyu dot im>
>  * Zhanhui Li <lizhanhui at gmail dot com>
>  * Wei Zhou <zhouwei198732 at gmail dot com>
>
>
> == Affiliations ==
>
>  * Xiaorui Wang: Alibaba
>  * Von Gosling: Alibaba
>  * Longda: Alibaba
>  * Xinyu Zhou: Alibaba
>  * Zhanhui Li: Yeahmobi
>  * Wei Zhou: Alibaba
> ​
> == Sponsors ==
>
> === Champion ===
>
> Bruce Snyder bsnyder@apache.org
>
> === Nominated Mentors ===
>
>  * Bruce Snyder bsnyder@apache.org
>  * Brian McCallister brianm@apache.org
>  * Willem Ning Jiang ningjiang@apache.org
>  * Luke Han lukehan@apache.org
>
> === Sponsoring Entity ===
>
> We are requesting the Incubator to sponsor this project.
>
>
> --
> perl -e 'print
> unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'
>
> ActiveMQ in Action: http://bit.ly/2je6cQ
> Blog: http://bsnyder.org/ <http://bruceblog.org/>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/brucesnyder
>