You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com> on 2002/04/15 01:02:46 UTC
W3C Standards
Are there any plans to validate the new site as XHTML?
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>I'm not so sure we need those "extra" tags. We already rely
>massively on
>CSS2, and any browser that doesn't support CSS will render the page
>incorectly anyway. We could test it with strict XHTML and see
>how it goes;
>if it doesn't work out, we try Transitional.
+1
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 12:10 15.04.2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> >Agreed :) I'll try and help out too. XHTML is very
> >interesting, that's for
> >sure.
> >Maybe we could go with Strict: there is almost only CSS used
> >in this site,
> >although I'm not sure if XHTML allows things like align="right", etc.
>
>Well Strict is just that - Strict (very). You can use aligns, if they
>are provided by CSS or within an embedded "style" tag. Like our sites
>policy, XHTML (Strict) is all about seperating content from
>presentation. Our site is mostly CSS driven, and the conversion should
>be relatively simple (even for strict).
>
>However, "Transitional" allows us to use tags that Strict won't - which
>I think is massively important for backward compatibility (ie: those
>browsers that don't support CSS).
I'm not so sure we need those "extra" tags. We already rely massively on
CSS2, and any browser that doesn't support CSS will render the page
incorectly anyway. We could test it with strict XHTML and see how it goes;
if it doesn't work out, we try Transitional.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>Agreed :) I'll try and help out too. XHTML is very
>interesting, that's for
>sure.
>Maybe we could go with Strict: there is almost only CSS used
>in this site,
>although I'm not sure if XHTML allows things like align="right", etc.
Well Strict is just that - Strict (very). You can use aligns, if they
are provided by CSS or within an embedded "style" tag. Like our sites
policy, XHTML (Strict) is all about seperating content from
presentation. Our site is mostly CSS driven, and the conversion should
be relatively simple (even for strict).
However, "Transitional" allows us to use tags that Strict won't - which
I think is massively important for backward compatibility (ie: those
browsers that don't support CSS).
The main rules of XHTML are:
1) Every tag must have closure (eg: </tag> or <... /> (which is used
for tags that don't normally have closure, like <br>, <img>, <hr>,
<meta>, etc.)
2) Lower case must be used for all tags and attributes (names, not
values)
3) The "name" tag is deprecated - "id" should be used as its
counterpart
4) The "DOCTYPE" must be defined
5) The "charset" must be defined
6) The document must be "well-formed"
The XHTML references are all available at http://www.w3c.org/
(naturally).
In converting Shapeshifter, I have found the process to be very easy.
But Shapeshifter was already based on well-formed code.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 11:01 15.04.2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> >I've validated parts as HTML 4.01 via validator.w3c.org,
> >if anybody is willing to validate against XHTML
> >and send the relevant patches, that would be cool.
>
>I'll happily contribute to this process. I am occupied at the moment
>(and for the next two months - coverting Shapeshifter (WYPUGs engine) to
>XHTML), but will supply patches after that time. Looking at the sites
>source now, it shouldn't be too hard as the HTML is pretty well written.
>
> >p.s. if we make the site XHTML complient will it still properly render
> >in older user agents that aren't aware of XHTML?
>
>Absolutely - if we use XHTML Transitional (as opposed to Strict).
>Strict forces too much reliance on CSS which still varies from browser
>to browser (although the vendors do seem to be leaning more towards
>standards these days - is it just me?).
>
>Why do this?: Because XHTML goes a long way towards future-proofing the
>site (after all our hard work). Because XHTML is more cross-platform
>than HTML. Because XHTML encourages well-formed code.
Agreed :) I'll try and help out too. XHTML is very interesting, that's for
sure.
Maybe we could go with Strict: there is almost only CSS used in this site,
although I'm not sure if XHTML allows things like align="right", etc.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: W3C Standards
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>i don't think this is a very good idea (at least not at this
>stage). the whole site has been developed for months according
>to one dtd. changing it now, we will probably only run into a
>lot of side problems if we want 100% validation.
Allan, we're not talking about doing this today. We can introduce XHTML
gradually in the future. As I explained in another email, I am unable
to contribute to XHTMLification for at least 2 months anyway.
There shouldn't be any "side problems". XHTML is not *that* different
from HTML 4, and is actually cleaner code - where do you envisage
problems?
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: W3C Standards
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> > Are there any plans to validate the new site as XHTML?
>
> I've validated parts as HTML 4.01 via validator.w3c.org,
> if anybody is willing to validate against XHTML
> and send the relevant patches, that would be cool.
> Thanks.
> p.s. if we make the site XHTML complient will it still properly render
> in older user agents that aren't aware of XHTML?
i don't think this is a very good idea (at least not at this
stage). the whole site has been developed for months
according to one dtd. changing it now, we will probably only
run into a lot of side problems if we want 100% validation.
./allan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>> If we do that, make it open source - I could do with same for
>> Shapeshifter. Incidently, I have been unable to find a XHTML
>> validator on CPAN, so we should look at modularising this.
>
>what's closed source? :) of course, what's the question.
Just testing! ;-)
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>Also we would like to have a recursive checker that validates that the
>>site is always staying XHTML complient. Some time in the future.
>
>
> If we do that, make it open source - I could do with same for
> Shapeshifter. Incidently, I have been unable to find a XHTML validator
> on CPAN, so we should look at modularising this.
what's closed source? :) of course, what's the question.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>OK, great. This can be done after the site is released. Should be
>transparent to users.
+1
>Also we would like to have a recursive checker that validates that the
>site is always staying XHTML complient. Some time in the future.
If we do that, make it open source - I could do with same for
Shapeshifter. Incidently, I have been unable to find a XHTML validator
on CPAN, so we should look at modularising this.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>I've validated parts as HTML 4.01 via validator.w3c.org,
>>if anybody is willing to validate against XHTML
>>and send the relevant patches, that would be cool.
>
>
> I'll happily contribute to this process. I am occupied at the moment
> (and for the next two months - coverting Shapeshifter (WYPUGs engine) to
> XHTML), but will supply patches after that time. Looking at the sites
> source now, it shouldn't be too hard as the HTML is pretty well written.
OK, great. This can be done after the site is released. Should be
transparent to users.
Also we would like to have a recursive checker that validates that the
site is always staying XHTML complient. Some time in the future.
>>p.s. if we make the site XHTML complient will it still properly render
>>in older user agents that aren't aware of XHTML?
>
>
> Absolutely - if we use XHTML Transitional (as opposed to Strict).
> Strict forces too much reliance on CSS which still varies from browser
> to browser (although the vendors do seem to be leaning more towards
> standards these days - is it just me?).
>
> Why do this?: Because XHTML goes a long way towards future-proofing the
> site (after all our hard work). Because XHTML is more cross-platform
> than HTML. Because XHTML encourages well-formed code.
Great! Thanks Jonathan
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: XHTML (was "W3C Standards")
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>I've validated parts as HTML 4.01 via validator.w3c.org,
>if anybody is willing to validate against XHTML
>and send the relevant patches, that would be cool.
I'll happily contribute to this process. I am occupied at the moment
(and for the next two months - coverting Shapeshifter (WYPUGs engine) to
XHTML), but will supply patches after that time. Looking at the sites
source now, it shouldn't be too hard as the HTML is pretty well written.
>p.s. if we make the site XHTML complient will it still properly render
>in older user agents that aren't aware of XHTML?
Absolutely - if we use XHTML Transitional (as opposed to Strict).
Strict forces too much reliance on CSS which still varies from browser
to browser (although the vendors do seem to be leaning more towards
standards these days - is it just me?).
Why do this?: Because XHTML goes a long way towards future-proofing the
site (after all our hard work). Because XHTML is more cross-platform
than HTML. Because XHTML encourages well-formed code.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: W3C Standards
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> Are there any plans to validate the new site as XHTML?
I've validated parts as HTML 4.01 via validator.w3c.org,
if anybody is willing to validate against XHTML
and send the relevant patches, that would be cool.
Thanks.
p.s. if we make the site XHTML complient will it still properly render
in older user agents that aren't aware of XHTML?
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org