You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> on 2013/01/13 13:52:04 UTC
The report/review cycle
This time around, the timing was as follows:
Wed 09-01-2013: Deadline for podling reports
Friday 11-01-2013: Practical board deadline
Wed 16-01-2013: Board meeting
In other words, we had a two day window for shepherds to digest
reports, then go dig around to fill in their picture.
Now, maybe things were unusually bad because of folks out for the new
year until 07-01-2013. But, still, I feel as if we don't have enough
time to react to reports (or the lack of reports) before we need to
have the board report in place.
What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
full week before the board's deadline? The board wants a weekend to
review reports before they meet; I'd like a weekend for us to review
reports before we need to get them delivered to the board.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
That would help a lot, especially with the "all mentors sign" policy.
The chance that one or more mentor is unable to review and sign a report
with a day or so notice is unfortunately high. A few more days in that
schedule would make the probability of getting all three sigs much higher.
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:52 AM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
> full week before the board's deadline? The board wants a weekend to
> review reports before they meet; I'd like a weekend for us to review
> reports before we need to get them delivered to the board.
>
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Maybe this version fits?
T1 T2 T3 T4
| | | |
friday before wed friday before wed
friday before board meeting
board meeting board meeting
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:52 AM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
>> full week before the board's deadline?
>
> I think this would be extremely helpful.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:52 AM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
> full week before the board's deadline?
I think this would be extremely helpful.
Thanks,
Roman.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>.
Thanks Benson for the clarification, now the timeline fully makes sense to me.
Suresh
On Jan 13, 2013, at 6:50 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi Benson,
>>
>> + 1 for this time line, it really helps to have shepherds a day or two. I am sorry I couldn't get my shepherd reports in this time with post-holiday catchup and sickness.
>>
>> I do not want to add too much to the process, but want to understand the buffer between shepherd comments and your consolidated summary to the board.
>>
>> Working backwards:
>> * Friday (before the board meeting week) VP IPMC submits the consolidated report to the board.
>> * Shepherds review the mentor signed off reports and other activity and add comments - Tentatively Due by ?
>> * Podling's draft the report and mentors sign off by Wednesday (a week before the board meets).
>>
>> I do think we have to leave it to each podling how they work through the reporting process, but having a suggested timeline and workflow at [1] might help the new podlings understand how the report funnels to the board.
>
> I don't think that shepherds need to wait around for mentors.
>
> Try this timeline:
> T1 T2 T3
> T4
> | | |
> |
> friday before wed friday before wed
> friday before board meeting
> board meeting
> board meeting
>
> T1: podlings deliver report content
> T1->T2: mentors and shepherds review, comment, signoff
> T2->T3: chair summarizes, IPMC reviews
> T3->T4: chair makes small repairs in case of last minute comments or input
>
> As you write below, how projects get their reports together, and
> whether they anticipate the need for mentor signoff, is up to them.
>
>
>>
>> Something like... PPMC drafts the reports in the dev list -> Mentors iterate any comments and sign off -> Shepherds review and provide any kudos external advice/comments -> IPMC chair compiles the report with a over all summary (with an appendix of all podling reports) -> Added to the board agenda -> Board members shepherd through the IPMC report -> (feedback follows back?)
>>
>> It might be also helpful to explain in the same document, once the project graduates how the process cuts short into ...TLP PMC chair drafts the report (with feedback from PMC) -> Added to the board agenda -> Board members shepherd the PMC report -> feedback is sent to PMC private list
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Suresh
>> [1] - http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This time around, the timing was as follows:
>>>
>>> Wed 09-01-2013: Deadline for podling reports
>>>
>>> Friday 11-01-2013: Practical board deadline
>>>
>>> Wed 16-01-2013: Board meeting
>>>
>>> In other words, we had a two day window for shepherds to digest
>>> reports, then go dig around to fill in their picture.
>>>
>>> Now, maybe things were unusually bad because of folks out for the new
>>> year until 07-01-2013. But, still, I feel as if we don't have enough
>>> time to react to reports (or the lack of reports) before we need to
>>> have the board report in place.
>>>
>>> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
>>> full week before the board's deadline? The board wants a weekend to
>>> review reports before they meet; I'd like a weekend for us to review
>>> reports before we need to get them delivered to the board.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Benson,
>
> + 1 for this time line, it really helps to have shepherds a day or two. I am sorry I couldn't get my shepherd reports in this time with post-holiday catchup and sickness.
>
> I do not want to add too much to the process, but want to understand the buffer between shepherd comments and your consolidated summary to the board.
>
> Working backwards:
> * Friday (before the board meeting week) VP IPMC submits the consolidated report to the board.
> * Shepherds review the mentor signed off reports and other activity and add comments - Tentatively Due by ?
> * Podling's draft the report and mentors sign off by Wednesday (a week before the board meets).
>
> I do think we have to leave it to each podling how they work through the reporting process, but having a suggested timeline and workflow at [1] might help the new podlings understand how the report funnels to the board.
I don't think that shepherds need to wait around for mentors.
Try this timeline:
T1 T2 T3
T4
| | |
|
friday before wed friday before wed
friday before board meeting
board meeting
board meeting
T1: podlings deliver report content
T1->T2: mentors and shepherds review, comment, signoff
T2->T3: chair summarizes, IPMC reviews
T3->T4: chair makes small repairs in case of last minute comments or input
As you write below, how projects get their reports together, and
whether they anticipate the need for mentor signoff, is up to them.
>
> Something like... PPMC drafts the reports in the dev list -> Mentors iterate any comments and sign off -> Shepherds review and provide any kudos external advice/comments -> IPMC chair compiles the report with a over all summary (with an appendix of all podling reports) -> Added to the board agenda -> Board members shepherd through the IPMC report -> (feedback follows back?)
>
> It might be also helpful to explain in the same document, once the project graduates how the process cuts short into ...TLP PMC chair drafts the report (with feedback from PMC) -> Added to the board agenda -> Board members shepherd the PMC report -> feedback is sent to PMC private list
>
> Cheers,
> Suresh
> [1] - http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
>
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This time around, the timing was as follows:
>>
>> Wed 09-01-2013: Deadline for podling reports
>>
>> Friday 11-01-2013: Practical board deadline
>>
>> Wed 16-01-2013: Board meeting
>>
>> In other words, we had a two day window for shepherds to digest
>> reports, then go dig around to fill in their picture.
>>
>> Now, maybe things were unusually bad because of folks out for the new
>> year until 07-01-2013. But, still, I feel as if we don't have enough
>> time to react to reports (or the lack of reports) before we need to
>> have the board report in place.
>>
>> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
>> full week before the board's deadline? The board wants a weekend to
>> review reports before they meet; I'd like a weekend for us to review
>> reports before we need to get them delivered to the board.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>.
Hi Benson,
+ 1 for this time line, it really helps to have shepherds a day or two. I am sorry I couldn't get my shepherd reports in this time with post-holiday catchup and sickness.
I do not want to add too much to the process, but want to understand the buffer between shepherd comments and your consolidated summary to the board.
Working backwards:
* Friday (before the board meeting week) VP IPMC submits the consolidated report to the board.
* Shepherds review the mentor signed off reports and other activity and add comments - Tentatively Due by ?
* Podling's draft the report and mentors sign off by Wednesday (a week before the board meets).
I do think we have to leave it to each podling how they work through the reporting process, but having a suggested timeline and workflow at [1] might help the new podlings understand how the report funnels to the board.
Something like... PPMC drafts the reports in the dev list -> Mentors iterate any comments and sign off -> Shepherds review and provide any kudos external advice/comments -> IPMC chair compiles the report with a over all summary (with an appendix of all podling reports) -> Added to the board agenda -> Board members shepherd through the IPMC report -> (feedback follows back?)
It might be also helpful to explain in the same document, once the project graduates how the process cuts short into ...TLP PMC chair drafts the report (with feedback from PMC) -> Added to the board agenda -> Board members shepherd the PMC report -> feedback is sent to PMC private list
Cheers,
Suresh
[1] - http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
On Jan 13, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This time around, the timing was as follows:
>
> Wed 09-01-2013: Deadline for podling reports
>
> Friday 11-01-2013: Practical board deadline
>
> Wed 16-01-2013: Board meeting
>
> In other words, we had a two day window for shepherds to digest
> reports, then go dig around to fill in their picture.
>
> Now, maybe things were unusually bad because of folks out for the new
> year until 07-01-2013. But, still, I feel as if we don't have enough
> time to react to reports (or the lack of reports) before we need to
> have the board report in place.
>
> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
> full week before the board's deadline? The board wants a weekend to
> review reports before they meet; I'd like a weekend for us to review
> reports before we need to get them delivered to the board.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
wait, that was wrong
On Jan 14, 2013, at 3:14 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is a week before the board meeting, but not a week before the
>> weekend before the board meeting.
>
> No, quoting the last reminders from Marvin:
>
> "The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 16 January 2013, 10:30:00:00 PST.
> The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
> report. The
> Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks before the board
> meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and submission (Wed, Jan 2nd)."
>
> This practice was adopted in late 2011 (see the discussion in [1]),
> and was used throughout last year. Unfortunately it looks like readily
> available information about the podling report deadline was lost when
> we refactored [2] the reporting schedule mechanism.
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/j3iagar2p75c7usa
> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportingSchedule?action=diff&rev1=292&rev2=293
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
I want another ,5 weeks to grab another weekend
On Jan 14, 2013, at 3:14 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is a week before the board meeting, but not a week before the
>> weekend before the board meeting.
>
> No, quoting the last reminders from Marvin:
>
> "The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 16 January 2013, 10:30:00:00 PST.
> The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
> report. The
> Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks before the board
> meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and submission (Wed, Jan 2nd)."
>
> This practice was adopted in late 2011 (see the discussion in [1]),
> and was used throughout last year. Unfortunately it looks like readily
> available information about the podling report deadline was lost when
> we refactored [2] the reporting schedule mechanism.
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/j3iagar2p75c7usa
> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportingSchedule?action=diff&rev1=292&rev2=293
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a week before the board meeting, but not a week before the
> weekend before the board meeting.
No, quoting the last reminders from Marvin:
"The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 16 January 2013, 10:30:00:00 PST.
The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
report. The
Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks before the board
meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and submission (Wed, Jan 2nd)."
This practice was adopted in late 2011 (see the discussion in [1]),
and was used throughout last year. Unfortunately it looks like readily
available information about the podling report deadline was lost when
we refactored [2] the reporting schedule mechanism.
[1] http://markmail.org/message/j3iagar2p75c7usa
[2] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportingSchedule?action=diff&rev1=292&rev2=293
BR,
Jukka Zitting
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
It is a week before the board meeting, but not a week before the
weekend before the board meeting. The board asked me to have our
report in place by the end of the Friday before the Wednesday of the
board meeting so that they could review over the weekend.
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
>> full week before the board's deadline?
>
> That's what it used to be. Did it change?
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: The report/review cycle
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What do people think of making the podling reporting deadline be a
> full week before the board's deadline?
That's what it used to be. Did it change?
BR,
Jukka Zitting
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org