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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com> on 2017/11/21 21:45:27 UTC
Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Hi all,
Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries - one of
them is hibernate.
Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there is a
special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..). I think
we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
org.hibernate.*" statements.
Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to release a
plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct process and
correct licensing for this module would be..
I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/components/camel-hibernate
as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
components at Apache.
There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time in the
past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle community
efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
Comments?
-Sven
P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I assume
some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have to
switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in terms of
license - I think...)
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
+1
Those are the origins of the "non-apache" NetBeans cluster, that some
day will live in its own repository, far, far away.
El 28/11/17 a las 11:46, Bertrand Delacretaz escribió:
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Emilian Bold
> <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
>> ...We should not remove all the files, just exclude the module from cluster.properties....
>
> If some modules are not releasable as part of Apache Netbeans I would
> suggest marking them in a stronger way to avoid confusion - maybe move
> them under a NON-APACHE folder for clarity.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Okay so I made a mess of my local git branch, so removed it (which closed
my previous PR) and so started again, luckily it's now a much smaller
change.
PR#303 <https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/303> Removed
hibernate and hibernate4libs from the cluster.properties. I also moved an
icon used by the j2ee.persistence module from hibernate into that module,
since we won't be distributing the hibernate module as part of Apache
NetBeans.
Regards
John
On 28 November 2017 at 15:37, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
wrote:
> It's not like we can release modules by mistake, just as we don't
> remove/exclude modules by mistake.
>
> The modules' code is Apache, they just have dependencies that are not
> Apache-compatible.
>
> I would leave these modules where they are.
>
> --emi
>
> >-------- Original Message --------
> >Subject: Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
> >Local Time: November 28, 2017 12:46 PM
> >UTC Time: November 28, 2017 10:46 AM
> >From: bdelacretaz@apache.org
> >To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Emilian Bold
> >emilian.bold@protonmail.ch wrote:
> >>...We should not remove all the files, just exclude the module from
> cluster.properties....
> >>
> >> If some modules are not releasable as part of Apache Netbeans I would
> >> suggest marking them in a stronger way to avoid confusion - maybe move
> >> them under a NON-APACHE folder for clarity.
> >>
> >> -Bertrand
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
It's not like we can release modules by mistake, just as we don't remove/exclude modules by mistake.
The modules' code is Apache, they just have dependencies that are not Apache-compatible.
I would leave these modules where they are.
--emi
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
>Local Time: November 28, 2017 12:46 PM
>UTC Time: November 28, 2017 10:46 AM
>From: bdelacretaz@apache.org
>To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
>On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Emilian Bold
>emilian.bold@protonmail.ch wrote:
>>...We should not remove all the files, just exclude the module from cluster.properties....
>>
>> If some modules are not releasable as part of Apache Netbeans I would
>> suggest marking them in a stronger way to avoid confusion - maybe move
>> them under a NON-APACHE folder for clarity.
>>
>> -Bertrand
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Emilian Bold
<em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
> ...We should not remove all the files, just exclude the module from cluster.properties....
If some modules are not releasable as part of Apache Netbeans I would
suggest marking them in a stronger way to avoid confusion - maybe move
them under a NON-APACHE folder for clarity.
-Bertrand
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
I agree. We should not remove all the files, just exclude the module from cluster.properties.
--emi
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
>Local Time: November 27, 2017 11:36 PM
>UTC Time: November 27, 2017 9:36 PM
>From: antonio@vieiro.net
>To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
>Mmmm... I'm not sure I like this.
>
> What about removing the hibernate entries from "cluster.properties" so
> they're not taken into account when compiling the IDE? The source can be
> kept there for a while, until it finds a more license-comfortable cozy
> home somewhere in github.
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
> El 27/11/17 a las 21:51, John McDonnell escribió:
>>I've submitted a PR (298
>>https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/298) that removes the
>> hibernate and hibernate4lib modules from the codebase.
>>I've left 'friend' references in other modules to this.
>>I think we should hold off merging this PR until we know exactly what we
>> are doing with the hibernate modules, i.e. moving it to a different repo on
>> GitHub
>>John
>>On 26 November 2017 at 09:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
>>geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
>>> various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in this
>>> thread).
>>>What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
>>> support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very critical
>>> part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
>>> somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
>>>Gj
>>>On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers sven.reimers@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>>Hi,
>>>>1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
>>>> have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
>>>>(anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
>>>> silver/rev/0144a346f983)
>>>>2. Seems ok for me.
>>>>Sven
>>>>On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <
>>>>mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
>>>>> in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
>>>>> issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
>>>>> Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
>>>>>Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
>>>>> and got a couple of questions.
>>>>>1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
>>>>> with:
>>>>> <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
>>>>>I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
>>>>> shouldn't affect the module, correct?
>>>>>2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
>>>>> hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
>>>>> assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
>>>>>private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
>>>>> "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
>>>>> //NOI18N
>>>>>A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
>>>>> again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
>>>>> used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
>>>>> speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
>>>>>If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
>>>>> removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
>>>>> breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
>>>>> - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
>>>>> an acceptance test...
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>John
>>>>>On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>Hi Sven,
>>>>>>Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries),
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
>>>>>> library from Apache:
>>>>>>https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
>>>>>>if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>> with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired)
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
>>>>>> it,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>I don't have an opinion on that.
>>>>>>Jan
>>>>>>On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <
>>>>>>sven.reimers@gmail.com
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>>>Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries -
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>them is hibernate.
>>>>>>>Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
>>>>>>> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>>>>>>>So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..).
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>think
>>>>>>>we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
>>>>>>> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
>>>>>>> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>>>>>>>Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
>>>>>>> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct
>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>correct licensing for this module would be..
>>>>>>>I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
>>>>>>>https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
>>>>>>> components/camel-hibernate
>>>>>>> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
>>>>>>> components at Apache.
>>>>>>>There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>>>>>>>Comments?
>>>>>>>-Sven
>>>>>>>P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
>>>>>>> assume
>>>>>>>>some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
>>>>>>> terms of
>>>>>>>>license - I think...)
>>>>>--
>>>> Sven Reimers
>>>> - Senior Expert Software Architect
>>>> - Java Champion
>>>> - NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
>>>> - Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
>>>> Desktop Java:
>>>>http://community.java.net/javadesktop
>>>> - JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
>>>> - Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
>>>> - XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
>>>> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
Oh, well, that was just an opinion, trying to spark some debate.
Maybe the way to go is to remove stuff completely, as you did, since
it's offending the NetBeans license. But the problem is the library, not
our Apache licensed code.
Cheers,
Antonio
El 28/11/17 a las 08:39, John McDonnell escribió:
> Okay,
>
> I'm more of an if you don't need it get rid of it sort of person since we
> can use source control to get it back if we do ever need to move it again,
> that's effectively why I went full throttle with this PR to remove it.
>
> I can make this change to bring it back later on and submit a PR with it
> just removed from the cluster.properties then.
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
> On 27 November 2017 at 21:36, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
>> Mmmm... I'm not sure I like this.
>>
>> What about removing the hibernate entries from "cluster.properties" so
>> they're not taken into account when compiling the IDE? The source can be
>> kept there for a while, until it finds a more license-comfortable cozy home
>> somewhere in github.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Antonio
>>
>> El 27/11/17 a las 21:51, John McDonnell escribió:
>>
>>> I've submitted a PR (298
>>> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/298>) that removes the
>>>
>>> hibernate and hibernate4lib modules from the codebase.
>>>
>>> I've left 'friend' references in other modules to this.
>>>
>>> I think we should hold off merging this PR until we know exactly what we
>>> are doing with the hibernate modules, i.e. moving it to a different repo
>>> on
>>> GitHub
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 November 2017 at 09:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
>>>> various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in
>>>> this
>>>> thread).
>>>>
>>>> What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
>>>> support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very
>>>> critical
>>>> part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
>>>> somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
>>>>
>>>> Gj
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
>>>>> have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> (anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
>>>>> silver/rev/0144a346f983)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Seems ok for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sven
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <
>>>>>
>>>> mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
>>>>>> in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
>>>>>> issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
>>>>>> Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
>>>>>> and got a couple of questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
>>>>>>
>>>>> with:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
>>>>>> shouldn't affect the module, correct?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
>>>>>> hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
>>>>>> assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
>>>>>> "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
>>>>>> //NOI18N
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
>>>>>> again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
>>>>>> used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
>>>>>> speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
>>>>>> removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
>>>>>> breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
>>>>>> - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
>>>>>> an acceptance test...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sven,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but
>>>>
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>> a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
>>>>>>> library from Apache:
>>>>>>> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>> separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> it,
>>>>>
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have an opinion on that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> sven.reimers@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> one
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> them is hibernate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
>>>>>>>> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
>>>>>>>> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
>>>>>>>> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
>>>>>>>> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> release
>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> process
>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> correct licensing for this module would be..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
>>>>>>>> components/camel-hibernate
>>>>>>>> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
>>>>>>>> components at Apache.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>
>>>>>> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Sven
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> assume
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> license - I think...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sven Reimers
>>>>>
>>>>> * Senior Expert Software Architect
>>>>> * Java Champion
>>>>> * NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
>>>>> * Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
>>>>> Desktop Java:
>>>>> http://community.java.net/javadesktop
>>>>> * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
>>>>> * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
>>>>>
>>>>> * XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
>>>>> * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Okay,
I'm more of an if you don't need it get rid of it sort of person since we
can use source control to get it back if we do ever need to move it again,
that's effectively why I went full throttle with this PR to remove it.
I can make this change to bring it back later on and submit a PR with it
just removed from the cluster.properties then.
Regards
John
On 27 November 2017 at 21:36, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
> Mmmm... I'm not sure I like this.
>
> What about removing the hibernate entries from "cluster.properties" so
> they're not taken into account when compiling the IDE? The source can be
> kept there for a while, until it finds a more license-comfortable cozy home
> somewhere in github.
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
> El 27/11/17 a las 21:51, John McDonnell escribió:
>
>> I've submitted a PR (298
>> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/298>) that removes the
>>
>> hibernate and hibernate4lib modules from the codebase.
>>
>> I've left 'friend' references in other modules to this.
>>
>> I think we should hold off merging this PR until we know exactly what we
>> are doing with the hibernate modules, i.e. moving it to a different repo
>> on
>> GitHub
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 November 2017 at 09:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
>>> various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in
>>> this
>>> thread).
>>>
>>> What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
>>> support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very
>>> critical
>>> part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
>>> somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> 1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
>>>> have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
>>>>
>>>> (anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
>>>> silver/rev/0144a346f983)
>>>>
>>>> 2. Seems ok for me.
>>>>
>>>> Sven
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <
>>>>
>>> mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
>>>>> in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
>>>>> issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
>>>>> Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
>>>>> and got a couple of questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
>>>>>
>>>> with:
>>>>
>>>>> <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
>>>>> shouldn't affect the module, correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
>>>>> hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
>>>>> assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
>>>>> "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
>>>>> //NOI18N
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
>>>>> again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
>>>>> used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
>>>>> speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
>>>>>
>>>>> If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
>>>>> removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
>>>>> breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
>>>>> - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
>>>>> an acceptance test...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sven,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
>>>>>>
>>>>> could
>>>>>
>>>>>> have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries),
>>>>>>
>>>>> but
>>>
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
>>>>>> library from Apache:
>>>>>> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
>>>>>>
>>>>> disabled
>>>>>
>>>>>> with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired)
>>>>>>
>>>>> or
>>>
>>>> separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
>>>>>>
>>>>> it,
>>>>
>>>>> so
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have an opinion on that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <
>>>>>>
>>>>> sven.reimers@gmail.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> one
>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> them is hibernate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
>>>>>>> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>
>>>> think
>>>>>
>>>>>> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
>>>>>>> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
>>>>>>> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
>>>>>>> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> release
>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> process
>>>
>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> correct licensing for this module would be..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
>>>>>>> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
>>>>>>> components/camel-hibernate
>>>>>>> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
>>>>>>> components at Apache.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>
>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> community
>>>>
>>>>> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Sven
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> assume
>>>>>
>>>>>> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>
>>>> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> terms of
>>>>>
>>>>>> license - I think...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sven Reimers
>>>>
>>>> * Senior Expert Software Architect
>>>> * Java Champion
>>>> * NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
>>>> * Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
>>>> Desktop Java:
>>>> http://community.java.net/javadesktop
>>>> * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
>>>> * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
>>>>
>>>> * XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
>>>> * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
Mmmm... I'm not sure I like this.
What about removing the hibernate entries from "cluster.properties" so
they're not taken into account when compiling the IDE? The source can be
kept there for a while, until it finds a more license-comfortable cozy
home somewhere in github.
Cheers,
Antonio
El 27/11/17 a las 21:51, John McDonnell escribió:
> I've submitted a PR (298
> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/298>) that removes the
> hibernate and hibernate4lib modules from the codebase.
>
> I've left 'friend' references in other modules to this.
>
> I think we should hold off merging this PR until we know exactly what we
> are doing with the hibernate modules, i.e. moving it to a different repo on
> GitHub
>
> John
>
>
>
> On 26 November 2017 at 09:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
>> various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in this
>> thread).
>>
>> What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
>> support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very critical
>> part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
>> somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> 1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
>>> have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
>>>
>>> (anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
>>> silver/rev/0144a346f983)
>>>
>>> 2. Seems ok for me.
>>>
>>> Sven
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <
>> mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
>>>> in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
>>>> issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
>>>> Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
>>>>
>>>> Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
>>>> and got a couple of questions.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
>>> with:
>>>> <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
>>>>
>>>> I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
>>>> shouldn't affect the module, correct?
>>>>
>>>> 2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
>>>> hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
>>>> assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
>>>>
>>>> private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
>>>> "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
>>>> //NOI18N
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
>>>> again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
>>>> used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
>>>> speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
>>>>
>>>> If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
>>>> removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
>>>> breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
>>>> - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
>>>> an acceptance test...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Sven,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
>>>> could
>>>>> have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries),
>> but
>>> it
>>>>> a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
>>>>> library from Apache:
>>>>> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
>>>>>
>>>>> if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
>>>> disabled
>>>>> with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired)
>> or
>>>>> separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
>>> it,
>>>> so
>>>>> I don't have an opinion on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <
>> sven.reimers@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries -
>> one
>>> of
>>>>>> them is hibernate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
>>>>>> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
>>> is
>>>> a
>>>>>> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..).
>> I
>>>> think
>>>>>> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
>>>>>> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
>>>>>> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
>>>>>> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
>>> release
>>>> a
>>>>>> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct
>> process
>>>> and
>>>>>> correct licensing for this module would be..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
>>>>>> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
>>>>>> components/camel-hibernate
>>>>>> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
>>>>>> components at Apache.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>>> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
>>> community
>>>>>> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Sven
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
>>>> assume
>>>>>> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have
>> to
>>>>>> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
>>>> terms of
>>>>>> license - I think...)
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sven Reimers
>>>
>>> * Senior Expert Software Architect
>>> * Java Champion
>>> * NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
>>> * Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
>>> Desktop Java:
>>> http://community.java.net/javadesktop
>>> * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
>>> * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
>>>
>>> * XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
>>> * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
>>>
>>
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
I don't believe it's important to go all the way with these modules. An IDE release is the goal, extra work just takes valuable time away.
Leaving the modules where they are until a future decision doesn't do any harm.
--emi
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
>Local Time: November 27, 2017 10:51 PM
>UTC Time: November 27, 2017 8:51 PM
>From: mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
>To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
>I've submitted a PR (298
>https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/298) that removes the
> hibernate and hibernate4lib modules from the codebase.
>
> I've left 'friend' references in other modules to this.
>
> I think we should hold off merging this PR until we know exactly what we
> are doing with the hibernate modules, i.e. moving it to a different repo on
> GitHub
>
> John
>
>
>
> On 26 November 2017 at 09:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
>geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
>> various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in this
>> thread).
>>What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
>> support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very critical
>> part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
>> somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
>>Gj
>>On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers sven.reimers@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>>Hi,
>>>1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
>>> have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
>>>(anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
>>> silver/rev/0144a346f983)
>>>2. Seems ok for me.
>>>Sven
>>>On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <
>>>mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>Hi,
>>>>I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
>>>> in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
>>>> issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
>>>> Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
>>>>Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
>>>> and got a couple of questions.
>>>>1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
>>>> with:
>>>> <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
>>>>I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
>>>> shouldn't affect the module, correct?
>>>>2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
>>>> hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
>>>> assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
>>>>private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
>>>> "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
>>>> //NOI18N
>>>>A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
>>>> again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
>>>> used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
>>>> speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
>>>>If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
>>>> removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
>>>> breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
>>>> - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
>>>> an acceptance test...
>>>>Regards
>>>>John
>>>>On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>Hi Sven,
>>>>>Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
>>>>> could
>>>>> have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries),
>>>>> but
>>>>> it
>>>>>>a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
>>>>> library from Apache:
>>>>>https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
>>>>>if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
>>>>> disabled
>>>>> with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired)
>>>>> or
>>>>>>separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
>>>>> it,
>>>>> so
>>>>>>I don't have an opinion on that.
>>>>>Jan
>>>>>On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <
>>>>>sven.reimers@gmail.com
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>>Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries -
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>them is hibernate.
>>>>>>Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
>>>>>> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>>>>>>So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..).
>>>>>> I
>>>>>think
>>>>>>we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
>>>>>> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
>>>>>> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>>>>>>Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
>>>>>> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct
>>>>>> process
>>>>>and
>>>>>>correct licensing for this module would be..
>>>>>>I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
>>>>>>https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
>>>>>> components/camel-hibernate
>>>>>> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
>>>>>> components at Apache.
>>>>>>There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time
>>>>>> in
>>>>>the
>>>>>>past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>>>>>>Comments?
>>>>>>-Sven
>>>>>>P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
>>>>>> assume
>>>>>>>some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
>>>>>> terms of
>>>>>>>license - I think...)
>>>>--
>>> Sven Reimers
>>> - Senior Expert Software Architect
>>> - Java Champion
>>> - NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
>>> - Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
>>> Desktop Java:
>>>http://community.java.net/javadesktop
>>> - JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
>>> - Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
>>> - XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
>>> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
I've submitted a PR (298
<https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/298>) that removes the
hibernate and hibernate4lib modules from the codebase.
I've left 'friend' references in other modules to this.
I think we should hold off merging this PR until we know exactly what we
are doing with the hibernate modules, i.e. moving it to a different repo on
GitHub
John
On 26 November 2017 at 09:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
> various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in this
> thread).
>
> What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
> support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very critical
> part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
> somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > 1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
> > have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
> >
> > (anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
> > silver/rev/0144a346f983)
> >
> > 2. Seems ok for me.
> >
> > Sven
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <
> mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
> > > in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
> > > issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
> > > Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
> > >
> > > Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
> > > and got a couple of questions.
> > >
> > > 1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
> > with:
> > > <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
> > >
> > > I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
> > > shouldn't affect the module, correct?
> > >
> > > 2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
> > > hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
> > > assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
> > >
> > > private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
> > > "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
> > > //NOI18N
> > >
> > >
> > > A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
> > > again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
> > > used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
> > > speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
> > >
> > > If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
> > > removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
> > > breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
> > > - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
> > > an acceptance test...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi Sven,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
> > > could
> > > > have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries),
> but
> > it
> > > > a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
> > > > library from Apache:
> > > > https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
> > > >
> > > > if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
> > > disabled
> > > > with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired)
> or
> > > > separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
> > it,
> > > so
> > > > I don't have an opinion on that.
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <
> sven.reimers@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi all,
> > > >>
> > > >> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries -
> one
> > of
> > > >> them is hibernate.
> > > >>
> > > >> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
> > > >> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
> > > >>
> > > >> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
> > is
> > > a
> > > >> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..).
> I
> > > think
> > > >> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
> > > >> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
> > > >> org.hibernate.*" statements.
> > > >>
> > > >> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
> > > >> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
> > release
> > > a
> > > >> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct
> process
> > > and
> > > >> correct licensing for this module would be..
> > > >>
> > > >> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
> > > >> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
> > > >> components/camel-hibernate
> > > >> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
> > > >> components at Apache.
> > > >>
> > > >> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time
> in
> > > the
> > > >> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
> > community
> > > >> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
> > > >>
> > > >> Comments?
> > > >>
> > > >> -Sven
> > > >>
> > > >> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
> > > assume
> > > >> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have
> to
> > > >> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
> > > terms of
> > > >> license - I think...)
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sven Reimers
> >
> > * Senior Expert Software Architect
> > * Java Champion
> > * NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
> > * Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
> > Desktop Java:
> > http://community.java.net/javadesktop
> > * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
> > * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
> >
> > * XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
> > * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
> >
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Ideally, we'd remove Hibernate completely. However, if we can't, there's
various other options too explore (i.e., the ideas provided by Jan in this
thread).
What would be the blockers to removing Hibernate completely, i.e., all
support for it in every possible way? It doesn't seem like a very critical
part of NetBeans. If we could put the Hibernate feature onto GitHub or
somewhere, as suggested by Sven, that would be a great step forward.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
> have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
>
> (anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-
> silver/rev/0144a346f983)
>
> 2. Seems ok for me.
>
> Sven
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
> > in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
> > issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
> > Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
> >
> > Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
> > and got a couple of questions.
> >
> > 1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element
> with:
> > <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
> >
> > I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
> > shouldn't affect the module, correct?
> >
> > 2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
> > hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
> > assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
> >
> > private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
> > "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
> > //NOI18N
> >
> >
> > A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
> > again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
> > used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
> > speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
> >
> > If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
> > removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
> > breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
> > - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
> > an acceptance test...
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Sven,
> > >
> > > Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
> > could
> > > have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries), but
> it
> > > a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
> > > library from Apache:
> > > https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
> > >
> > > if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
> > disabled
> > > with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired) or
> > > separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about
> it,
> > so
> > > I don't have an opinion on that.
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <sven.reimers@gmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries - one
> of
> > >> them is hibernate.
> > >>
> > >> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
> > >> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
> > >>
> > >> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there
> is
> > a
> > >> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..). I
> > think
> > >> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
> > >> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
> > >> org.hibernate.*" statements.
> > >>
> > >> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
> > >> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to
> release
> > a
> > >> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct process
> > and
> > >> correct licensing for this module would be..
> > >>
> > >> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
> > >> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
> > >> components/camel-hibernate
> > >> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
> > >> components at Apache.
> > >>
> > >> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time in
> > the
> > >> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle
> community
> > >> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
> > >>
> > >> Comments?
> > >>
> > >> -Sven
> > >>
> > >> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
> > assume
> > >> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have to
> > >> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
> > terms of
> > >> license - I think...)
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sven Reimers
>
> * Senior Expert Software Architect
> * Java Champion
> * NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
> * Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
> Desktop Java:
> http://community.java.net/javadesktop
> * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
> * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
>
> * XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
> * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
1. the friend entries are not a problem, but I think long term we should
have better official API's instead of making everyone a friend.
(anecdotal reference -> http://hg.netbeans.org/main-silver/rev/0144a346f983)
2. Seems ok for me.
Sven
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
> in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
> issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
> Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
>
> Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
> and got a couple of questions.
>
> 1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element with:
> <friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
>
> I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
> shouldn't affect the module, correct?
>
> 2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
> hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
> assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
>
> private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
> "org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
> //NOI18N
>
>
> A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
> again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
> used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
> speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
>
> If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
> removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
> breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
> - maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
> an acceptance test...
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
>
> On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Sven,
> >
> > Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we
> could
> > have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries), but it
> > a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
> > library from Apache:
> > https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
> >
> > if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed
> disabled
> > with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired) or
> > separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about it,
> so
> > I don't have an opinion on that.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries - one of
> >> them is hibernate.
> >>
> >> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
> >> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
> >>
> >> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there is
> a
> >> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..). I
> think
> >> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
> >> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
> >> org.hibernate.*" statements.
> >>
> >> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
> >> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to release
> a
> >> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct process
> and
> >> correct licensing for this module would be..
> >>
> >> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
> >> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
> >> components/camel-hibernate
> >> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
> >> components at Apache.
> >>
> >> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time in
> the
> >> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle community
> >> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
> >>
> >> Comments?
> >>
> >> -Sven
> >>
> >> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I
> assume
> >> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have to
> >> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in
> terms of
> >> license - I think...)
> >>
>
--
Sven Reimers
* Senior Expert Software Architect
* Java Champion
* NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
* Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
Desktop Java:
http://community.java.net/javadesktop
* JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
* Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009
* XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Sven_Reimers8
* LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I like the idea of an external GitHub that we can use to quickly fire
in some of the troublesome modules into to get around the license
issues like Camel did, and it seems there's already a GitHub
Organisation lying there in wait for modules ;)
Just did a quick search for usages of "hibernate" in the repository,
and got a couple of questions.
1. Alot of modules in the project.xml have a friend-packages element with:
<friend>org.netbeans.modules.hibernate</friend>
I assume even if this "friend" module doesn't exist in the IDE it
shouldn't affect the module, correct?
2. The j2ee.persistence module has references to icons from the
hibernate package, provided there Oracles images, and not Hibernate, I
assume we could just move the icon and reference, no?
private static final String HB_MAPPING_ICON =
"org/netbeans/modules/hibernate/resources/hibernate-mapping.png";
//NOI18N
A lot of the other references are references to hibernate in text,
again from a quick search I don't fully know how or what their being
used for, I assume unless someone with intimate knowledge of this area
speaks up, we'll probably have to get down there and dig around...
If I get time over the next few days / next week, I might see about
removing references to the Hibernate modules locally and seeing what
breaks in relation to the JPA / Persistence Units etc stuff in the UI.
- maybe see if there are any 8.2 NetCat test specs for this to use as
an acceptance test...
Regards
John
On 21 November 2017 at 22:17, Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sven,
>
> Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we could
> have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries), but it
> a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
> library from Apache:
> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
>
> if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed disabled
> with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired) or
> separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about it, so
> I don't have an opinion on that.
>
> Jan
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries - one of
>> them is hibernate.
>>
>> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
>> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>>
>> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there is a
>> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..). I think
>> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
>> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
>> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>>
>> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
>> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to release a
>> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct process and
>> correct licensing for this module would be..
>>
>> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
>> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
>> components/camel-hibernate
>> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
>> components at Apache.
>>
>> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time in the
>> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle community
>> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> -Sven
>>
>> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I assume
>> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have to
>> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in terms of
>> license - I think...)
>>
Re: Hibernate and Apache NetBeans
Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.
Hi Sven,
Thanks for looking at this. For completeness, I think (but IANAL) we could
have code here that depends on Hibernate (or other GPL libraries), but it
a) needs to be an optional component; b) we cannot distribute the GPL
library from Apache:
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#optional
if it makes more sense for the hibernate support to be distributed disabled
with the IDE (so the user would only install the library if desired) or
separately is a question, but I personally know almost nothing about it, so
I don't have an opinion on that.
Jan
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Jan just asked about a couple of problematic external libraries - one of
> them is hibernate.
>
> Looking at the rules I think we cannot distribute modules relying on
> Hibernate with Apache NetBeans.
>
> So I did a quick dive and found a major problem. At the moment there is a
> special support module for Hibernate (supporting stuff like HQL..). I think
> we have to get rid of that (still have to check for further modules
> depending on this module). This is the only module using "import
> org.hibernate.*" statements.
>
> Idea: Maybe we can move the Hibernate Support module over to another
> community place so the code does not get lost and we can try to release a
> plugin from there - how about that? Not sure what the correct process and
> correct licensing for this module would be..
>
> I found this http://camel.apache.org/hibernate.html and
> https://github.com/camel-extra/camel-extra/tree/master/
> components/camel-hibernate
> as an example of another Apache project not being able to use LGPL
> components at Apache.
>
> There is https://github.com/netbeans-community - some distant time in the
> past Florian and I thought this may be a good place to bundle community
> efforts around NetBeans - maybe we could use this now?
>
> Comments?
>
> -Sven
>
> P.S. I think if we get the JavaEE part this will be much harder - I assume
> some of the JPA magic will rely on use of Hibernate - we will have to
> switch this over to OpenJPA or EclipseLink (both should be good in terms of
> license - I think...)
>