Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Craig Parker <cr...@fossfolks.com>]

+1  It'd be way easier to create a template.


On 07/31/2017 01:25 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> I totally agree Deepak!
>
> Our problem is not that we are not using an UI framework or another.
>
> Our problem is that we are not consistently generating HTML because we 
> use too much Freemarker templates in the backend. IMO we should always 
> (OK as much as possible, but trying really hard) generate HTML with 
> form widgets.
>
> Using Freemarker templates in frontend (eg ecommerce) is another case 
> and we have different types of themes for this reason.
>
> If we consistently generate HTML using form widgets (I don't say that 
> that could not be improved too) then it's easier to use CSS on it and 
> choose an UI framework to apply on it.
>
> To summarise: consistent generated HTML is the key here
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 06/07/2017 à 07:49, Deepak Dixit a écrit :
>> IMO instead of thinking to support different UI framework we can 
>> define our
>> standard html and then write css based on it.
>>
>> If anyone want to plug different UI framework then user can create new
>> template file and and set it in widget.properties.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>> -- 
>> Deepak Dixit
>> www.hotwaxsystems.com
>> www.hotwax.co
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Michael Brohl<mi...@ecomify.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme 
>>> compatibility.
>>>
>>> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and 
>>> the code
>>> produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other (naturally).
>>>
>>> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will
>>> have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to the
>>> html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.
>>>
>>> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old
>>> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>>>
>>> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>>>
>>>> will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents 
>>> in an
>>> abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
>>> make it
>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the 
>>> target
>>> library.
>>>
>>> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time 
>>> (I'm sure
>>> that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard CSS
>>> framework)
>>>
>>>
>>> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not 
>>> compatible
>>> with different frameworks but have their base template build mainly on
>>> Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining an abstract 
>>> layer for
>>> different frameworks or "theme languages" is too much a burden for us.
>>>
>>> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>>>
>>> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just
>>> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's 
>>> feedback on
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Thanks and best regards,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>>>
>>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>>> actions could be the following:
>>>>
>>>> - Create a base theme
>>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>>> the theme.
>>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>>
>>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies 
>>>>>> because it
>>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure 
>>>>>> if we
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets 
>>>>> for JSF.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), 
>>>>> but
>>>>> the
>>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for 
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap 
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>>> client-side
>>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
>>>>>> his own
>>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework 
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more 
>>>>>> changes in
>>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of 
>>>>>> mine
>>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> in an
>>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
>>>>>>> and make
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented 
>>>>>> [1] and
>>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free 
>>>>>> templates out
>>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>>> theme,
>>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>>> Foundationhttps://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>>> could
>>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level 
>>>>> I'd say
>>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>>>> other
>>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, 
>>>>> even an
>>>>> API
>>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>>>> from
>>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about 
>>>>> Angular
>>>>> 2! I
>>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>>>> using it
>>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
>>>>> them...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael 
>>>>>>> Brohl<mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes 
>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current 
>>>>>>>> technological
>>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like 
>>>>>>>> Bootstrap and
>>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser 
>>>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro 
>>>>>>>> library) and
>>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>>>>>>>> attributes
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some 
>>>>>>>> concepts/design work
>>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a 
>>>>>>>> UX or
>>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, 
>>>>>>>> UI wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from 
>>>>>>>>> Provolve and
>>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it 
>>>>>>>>> working) and
>>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's 
>>>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the 
>>>>>>>>> trunk then
>>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to 
>>>>>>>>>> share at
>>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers 
>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you 
>>>>>>>>>>>> give us
>>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb 
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>
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