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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com> on 2002/12/02 14:15:14 UTC
[Focus] Unifying our Attention
It is a proven fact that humans can only juggle 2-3
concepts at any one time. Right now we have several
things on the table, and we need to lesson the load.
In order to work as a community, we need to learn
patience, and how to focus on one piece of the puzzle
at a time.
Right now, the only two pieces of the puzzle we should
be worrying about is priority #1 defining our bylaws
and charter, and priority #2 discussing *how* we are
going to approach new development. So far there are
so many things up for vote that it is a "done deal"
before we can all focus our attention on it.
Are you afraid that someone might suggest something
better? We cannot have sacred cows. We still have
responsibilities with existing code, but all of our
ideas have to be tempered by each other's input.
Voting on things like Context contracts for Avalon 4.1
does nothing but create work for the existing software
we have when we haven't discussed bigger picture items.
Can we agree on a vision before we agree on details?
Otherwise, I have a feeling we will have an Avalon that
has very disproportionate features.
As to future development, let's consider where Avalon
will be used, how it will be used, and how we can make
that process easier.
Are we all on board?
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Re: [Focus] Unifying our Attention
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> It is a proven fact that humans can only juggle 2-3
> concepts at any one time. Right now we have several
> things on the table, and we need to lesson the load.
> In order to work as a community, we need to learn
> patience, and how to focus on one piece of the puzzle
> at a time.
>
> Right now, the only two pieces of the puzzle we should
> be worrying about is priority #1 defining our bylaws
> and charter, and priority #2 discussing *how* we are
> going to approach new development. So far there are
> so many things up for vote that it is a "done deal"
> before we can all focus our attention on it.
>
> Are you afraid that someone might suggest something
> better? We cannot have sacred cows. We still have
> responsibilities with existing code, but all of our
> ideas have to be tempered by each other's input.
>
> Voting on things like Context contracts for Avalon 4.1
> does nothing but create work for the existing software
> we have when we haven't discussed bigger picture items.
>
> Can we agree on a vision before we agree on details?
> Otherwise, I have a feeling we will have an Avalon that
> has very disproportionate features.
>
> As to future development, let's consider where Avalon
> will be used, how it will be used, and how we can make
> that process easier.
>
> Are we all on board?
I'm ready to follow.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [Focus] Unifying our Attention
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 14:15, Berin Loritsch wrote:
<snip/>
> Are we all on board?
I am. I'll shut up about other stuff for now ;)
As to your earlier POA, I didn't reply because there was lots of "if
(no-one objects) then" and I was busy not objecting ;D
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: [Focus] Unifying our Attention
Posted by Marcus Crafter <cr...@fztig938.bank.dresdner.net>.
On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 08:56:27AM -0500, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> So the critical question is do we clean the slate (leveraging our
> knowledge of what we have now) to build afresh, or do we continue
> with what we have? The last we talked about it, we wanted Avalon
> 5 to address better the container/component contracts more than
> the simple lifecycle. I think now would be the opportunity to
> to do just that.
FWIW I agree - let's leverage off our previous experience and build
afresh. As you said it, now we have the opportunity to do so.
Cheers,
Marcus
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$: $$$$: ManageSoft GmbH
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RE: [Focus] Unifying our Attention
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com>.
> From: Paul Hammant [mailto:paul_hammant@yahoo.com]
>
> > <wisdom/>
> > Are we all on board?
>
> Go for it.
>
> Draw up a list of things that need to be achieved in the run
> up to Xmas, and we'll see what it
> looks like...
:)
As I said, we need to address Priority #1 sooner than later.
We are a top level project in Apache, so we need our charter
and our bylaws.
As to Priority #2:
It seems that the majority of us (if not all of us) want to work
on one unified container. I posted a plan of attack for that
before Thanksgiving break. What we need to discuss is if we are
working on an Avalon 4.1 compliant container, or an Avalon 5
container and the associated contracts. I highly recommend that
new development is just that--new. It needs to be a fresh start
both technically and for us as a community. It also means that
while we are working on Avalon 5, we are supporting, maintaining,
and releasing our existing containers. Yes, both Merlin and
Fortress are Avalon 4.1 compliant, as are Phoenix and ECM. The
fact is that we have existing users and existing projects. The
fact that they are so different speaks to both the flexibility
and the lack of agreement we have had in the past. As we work
toward the new Container and the new Avalon we have the one
critical piece we didn't have: confidence that a component written
for any Avalon container should work the same no matter what.
So the critical question is do we clean the slate (leveraging our
knowledge of what we have now) to build afresh, or do we continue
with what we have? The last we talked about it, we wanted Avalon
5 to address better the container/component contracts more than
the simple lifecycle. I think now would be the opportunity to
to do just that.
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Re: [Focus] Unifying our Attention
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com>.
> <wisdom/>
> Are we all on board?
Go for it.
Draw up a list of things that need to be achieved in the run up to Xmas, and we'll see what it
looks like...
-ph
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RE: [Focus] Unifying our Attention
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
If you want to direct this score, go for it. :-)
> We are a top level project in Apache, so we need our charter
> and our bylaws.
As I have mentioned before, I'd like the Avalon Community consider putting
Committers from active consuming projects (e.g., Turbine, Cocoon, James) on
the PMC in some capacity.
The basic charter would appear to be the development, support and promotion
of a scalable container-based application architecture and supporting
implementation.
Elsewhere I've stated agreement with your vision of Avalon 5. Start with a
clean slate, learn from Avalon 4, do the whole journey including
architecture then design then implementation. Take from Avalon 4 only what
still works for Avalon 5. Learn from the past, but don't be held to it
(except for migration).
--- Noel
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