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Posted to dev@poi.apache.org by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> on 2006/06/27 14:06:51 UTC
poi.apache.org commentary
I know, I know. I'm a pain in the arse bureaucrat who should just go
do something real like coding.
The recent committer and release vote are another example that the 'we
want to be a separate sub-community' doesn't work with the way an
Apache TLP is nowadays. Neither vote (until recently) had even one PMC
member voting on it.
So I want to say again that the best way to have the independence POI
wants - is to be a TLP. Otherwise it's just painful for everyone.
Hen
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@torchbox.com>.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Avik Sengupta wrote:
> Well my opinion is, 'cant we just get on with it, forget all these
> organisational stuff' ... but I suppose that's quite naive.
Yeah. It's now quite some time since we voted on Yegor as a committer, but
he still doesn't have accounts etc as the vote doesn't count until we get
3 PMC members voting on it. With only 2 PMC votes in, we can't get him an
account :(
> Given the direction of Jakarta, there's a resonable argument in moving
> to a TLP. I think that's a shame, though practically I'm quite agnostic
> to the idea.
It doesn't actually look like too much work to move to a new TLP. Henri
Yandell has offered help and advice, and it probably just needs one person
to draw up the various proposals (from templates), submit to the board
etc.
Otherwise, we need to get a bunch more Jakarta PMC members (shouldn't be
too hard), and start making friends with all the other Jakarta projects.
Oh, and join a bunch of other mailing lists.
Nick
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Avik Sengupta <av...@itellix.com>.
Well my opinion is, 'cant we just get on with it, forget all these
organisational stuff' ... but I suppose that's quite naive.
I dont think there's any question that committers should have votes on
new releases and new committers. In the jakarta scheme of things, that
probably does mean that we'll need to be more proactive in getting POI
committers on the PMC. We've been quite lazy on that front.. I hope to
make certain amends soon.
Given the direction of Jakarta, there's a resonable argument in moving
to a TLP. I think that's a shame, though practically I'm quite
agnostic to the idea.
Regards
-
Avik
Quoting Nick Burch <ni...@torchbox.com>:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Nick Burch wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Nick Burch wrote:
>>> What does everyone else think?
>>
>> Anyone? I think the main thing is:
>> do we think committers should be allowed to vote on new releases and new
>> committers?
>>
>> At the moment, committers aren't also PMC members, so we don't have
>> that. If we think we should have, we need to move to our own TLP,
>> and make all committers automatically PMC members.
>
> Does no-one have any opinions on this?
>
> Nick
>
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@torchbox.com>.
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Nick Burch wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Nick Burch wrote:
>> What does everyone else think?
>
> Anyone? I think the main thing is:
> do we think committers should be allowed to vote on new releases and new
> committers?
>
> At the moment, committers aren't also PMC members, so we don't have
> that. If we think we should have, we need to move to our own TLP, and
> make all committers automatically PMC members.
Does no-one have any opinions on this?
Nick
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 7/13/06, Nick Burch <ni...@torchbox.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Nick Burch wrote:
> > What does everyone else think?
>
> Anyone? I think the main thing is:
> do we think committers should be allowed to vote on new releases and new
> committers?
>
> At the moment, committers aren't also PMC members, so we don't have that.
> If we think we should have, we need to move to our own TLP, and make all
> committers automatically PMC members.
Any thoughts on this? Currently your new committer vote and any
official releases look like they're going to be blocked due to a lack
of voting PMC members. Personally I'd like all Jakarta committers to
automatically be on the PMC, but that'll take a long time to get
consensus on. Given that and POI's legal worries concerning NDAs, I
think poi.apache.org will be a lot simpler than being an independent
island within Jakarta.
Hen
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@torchbox.com>.
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Nick Burch wrote:
> What does everyone else think?
Anyone? I think the main thing is:
do we think committers should be allowed to vote on new releases and new
committers?
At the moment, committers aren't also PMC members, so we don't have that.
If we think we should have, we need to move to our own TLP, and make all
committers automatically PMC members.
Nick
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@torchbox.com>.
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Rainer Klute wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 27.06.2006, 13:06 +0100 schrieb Henri Yandell:
> > The recent committer and release vote are another example that the 'we
> > want to be a separate sub-community' doesn't work with the way an
> > Apache TLP is nowadays. Neither vote (until recently) had even one PMC
> > member voting on it.
> >
> > So I want to say again that the best way to have the independence POI
> > wants - is to be a TLP. Otherwise it's just painful for everyone.
>
> Being a POI committer I'd say that this would be okay for me
Having attended a bunch of ApacheCon talks on the ASF, and spoken to a
number of people, I the important change would be for committers.
As I've always understood it, poi doesn't differenciate between committers
and PMC members. If you're a committer, your vote counts for us.
There's only one snag - that isn't actually how it works. In the ASF, only
PMC members have binding votes. Committers don't, and most of us are
Jakarta committers, not Jakarta PMC members.
With the large projects, there is a difference between committer and PMC
member. If you're not on the PMC, then you don't get to vote for new
releases, code changes, or new committers/PMC members. You have a say, but
not a binding vote. Only the PMC members get to vote.
In small projects, all committers are also on the PMC. Everyone has the
same status, and everyone can vote.
So, I would advoate that we move to our own TLP, and make all committers
PMC members. We will then have the situation we all thought we had, and
everything will be good :)
Oh, and on the bureaucracy angle - I think that we won't really have any
more in our on TLP than we have as part of Jakarta. For those currently on
the Jakarta PMC, there should even be a reduction.
What does everyone else think?
Nick
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 6/28/06, Rainer Klute <kl...@apache.org> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 27.06.2006, 13:06 +0100 schrieb Henri Yandell:
> > The recent committer and release vote are another example that the 'we
> > want to be a separate sub-community' doesn't work with the way an
> > Apache TLP is nowadays. Neither vote (until recently) had even one PMC
> > member voting on it.
> >
> > So I want to say again that the best way to have the independence POI
> > wants - is to be a TLP. Otherwise it's just painful for everyone.
>
> Being a POI committer I'd say that this would be okay for me - as well
> as POI staying a Jakarta subproject. In fact I simply don't care.
I think that's pretty much the POI consensus - the problem being that
being in Jakarta and not caring about the rest of Jakarta is less and
less enjoyable.
What you should do (my opinion anyway) is to become a pmc of your own
and have a policy where every committer to POI is automatically on the
POI pmc. Each quarter (each month for the first three) someone would
send in a report which looks much like the one they do in the Jakarta
report anyway.
No rush (especially as at least one committer is on vacation at the
moment), but I increasingly think it's the best thing for POI. And
yes, also a good thing for congealing the rest of the Jakarta
community into a single community rather than many independent
sub-communities.
Hen
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Re: poi.apache.org commentary
Posted by Rainer Klute <kl...@apache.org>.
Am Dienstag, den 27.06.2006, 13:06 +0100 schrieb Henri Yandell:
> The recent committer and release vote are another example that the 'we
> want to be a separate sub-community' doesn't work with the way an
> Apache TLP is nowadays. Neither vote (until recently) had even one PMC
> member voting on it.
>
> So I want to say again that the best way to have the independence POI
> wants - is to be a TLP. Otherwise it's just painful for everyone.
Being a POI committer I'd say that this would be okay for me - as well
as POI staying a Jakarta subproject. In fact I simply don't care.
Best regards
Rainer Klute
Rainer Klute IT-Consulting GmbH
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