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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org> on 2004/06/10 22:17:55 UTC
[RT] Lenya-Skins
Hello devs,
just some random thoughts about skinning lenya.
Why we do not use a forrest skin (maybe the one of our website) for our
default pub?
The idea would be to aplly forrest skin packages for theming lenya.
I mean that we have to add 3 files to src/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/xslt
and change the sitemap.
The user could change the skin (or theme) e.g. within Admin->skin afer
the installation. We could keep our own themes (besides the ones from
forrest) on our server and people can install them by demand through the
forrest.skins.descriptors. If our skins would be declared in the
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/skins/skins.xml the forrest user can also
use our skins :). Maybe we can even attract some committers from forrest
to help us ;-). If they become as well lenya committer we can come out
of the incubator [1].
WDYT?
[1]
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Minimum+Exit+Requirements
--
<thorsten>
<name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
<country>Spain</country>
<@m...@mail>
<@c...@cocoon-WIKI>
<http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
<motto>
"My task which I am trying to achieve is,
by the power of the written word,
[...] to make you see."
*Joseph Conrad (1857-1924)*
</motto>
</thorsten>
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 17:22, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >>I think those css skins would be better provided by a more powerful
> >>lenya theming engine (i.e. based on forrest). I mean u have a powerful
> >>xslt framework to setup very flexible (technical,structure) theming. The
> >>theme constructor(or contributors) than can also provide various css
> >>themes to finally present the page in the browser, where the user can
> >>switch the css themes.
> >
> >
> > Hmmm, this is a very broad definition of skin. Generally, I think
> > of skin as referring only to presentation. Document structure and
> > functionality would be outside the scope of a skin.
>
> Yes, and I see a problem here. We can talk about skins for the
> default publication, but I wouldn't call them skins for Lenya.
>
> I don't know if it makes sense to invest much effort into a
> skinning framework for a single publication. I'd rather focus
> on the concept of doctype packages including presentation
> options.
Interesting idea...
Have you more on that?
--
Rolf Kulemann
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
> Well, the approach we take is publication specific. I'm not sure
> how it would be incorporated into the lenya framework.
>
> We don't associate presentation with the content doctype.
> Instead, we have an intermediate xhtml template that is
> structured and annotated with css selectors. The xhtml template
> used xinclude to aggregate the content(s). Something like this:
>
> XML Content ===> XHTML
> (pure structure) (pure structure )
> (but annotate with CSS)
> ====> browser
> CSS skin 1
> (pure presentation)
>
> CSS skin 2
> (pure presentation)
>
> The CSS does all presentation including page layout. Alternate
> skins can easily be selected, even leaving it to the user to select.
we call this styleless stylesheet. sometimes, we conflate the XSLT and
the XHTML when the xhtml is very small (http://gurit.ch which is
completely css-based has this:)
<xsl:template match="cmsbody">
<html>
<head>
<link rel="stylesheet" media="print" href="css/print.css" type="text/css"/>
<link rel="stylesheet" media="screen" href="css/page.css" type="text/css"/>
<xsl:apply-templates select="xhtml:head"/>
</head>
<body>
<xsl:variable name="columns" select="xhtml:body/@class"/>
<div id="page">
<div id="header">
<xsl:apply-templates select="xhtml:div[@id = 'breadcrumb']"/>
<div id="language"><xsl:call-template name="language-link"/></div>
</div>
<div id="left">
<xsl:apply-templates select="xhtml:div[@id = 'menu']"/>
</div>
<xsl:apply-templates select="xhtml:div[@id='2columns']"/>
<xsl:apply-templates select="xhtml:div[@id='3columns']"/>
</div>
</body>
</html>
</xsl:template>
http://cocooncenter.org/articles/stylefree.html
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Jean Pierre LeJacq <jp...@quoininc.com>.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Yes, and I see a problem here. We can talk about skins for the
> default publication, but I wouldn't call them skins for Lenya.
>
> I don't know if it makes sense to invest much effort into a
> skinning framework for a single publication. I'd rather focus
> on the concept of doctype packages including presentation
> options.
Well, the approach we take is publication specific. I'm not sure
how it would be incorporated into the lenya framework.
We don't associate presentation with the content doctype.
Instead, we have an intermediate xhtml template that is
structured and annotated with css selectors. The xhtml template
used xinclude to aggregate the content(s). Something like this:
XML Content ===> XHTML
(pure structure) (pure structure )
(but annotate with CSS)
====> browser
CSS skin 1
(pure presentation)
CSS skin 2
(pure presentation)
The CSS does all presentation including page layout. Alternate
skins can easily be selected, even leaving it to the user to select.
--
JP
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
[...]
>>I think those css skins would be better provided by a more powerful
>>lenya theming engine (i.e. based on forrest). I mean u have a powerful
>>xslt framework to setup very flexible (technical,structure) theming. The
>>theme constructor(or contributors) than can also provide various css
>>themes to finally present the page in the browser, where the user can
>>switch the css themes.
>
>
> Hmmm, this is a very broad definition of skin. Generally, I think
> of skin as referring only to presentation. Document structure and
> functionality would be outside the scope of a skin.
Yes, and I see a problem here. We can talk about skins for the
default publication, but I wouldn't call them skins for Lenya.
I don't know if it makes sense to invest much effort into a
skinning framework for a single publication. I'd rather focus
on the concept of doctype packages including presentation
options.
-- Andreas
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 17:31, Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Rolf Kulemann wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 00:12, Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
> > > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
> > >
> > > > just some random thoughts about skinning lenya.
> > > >
> > > > Why we do not use a forrest skin (maybe the one of our website)
> > > > for our default pub?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't it make more sense to skin pages using CSS instead of XSLT?
> >
> > I think those css skins would be better provided by a more powerful
> > lenya theming engine (i.e. based on forrest). I mean u have a powerful
> > xslt framework to setup very flexible (technical,structure) theming. The
> > theme constructor(or contributors) than can also provide various css
> > themes to finally present the page in the browser, where the user can
> > switch the css themes.
>
> Hmmm, this is a very broad definition of skin. Generally, I think
> of skin as referring only to presentation. Document structure and
> functionality would be outside the scope of a skin. Nothing wrong
> with either definition.
>
> But then, how does the forrest structure/functionality align with
> what is provided by cocoon/lenya? There seems to be an overlap
> between the two.
Yes. The question is how do they compare? What are the differences?
Maybe overlap is an indicator for lack of reuse?
To be honest my knowledge of forrest was equal to zero. Now I'm looking
at it for some days. I need to learn more about forrest in order to
answer my above questions.
--
Rolf Kulemann
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Jean Pierre LeJacq <jp...@quoininc.com>.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Rolf Kulemann wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 00:12, Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
> >
> > > just some random thoughts about skinning lenya.
> > >
> > > Why we do not use a forrest skin (maybe the one of our website)
> > > for our default pub?
> >
> > Wouldn't it make more sense to skin pages using CSS instead of XSLT?
>
> I think those css skins would be better provided by a more powerful
> lenya theming engine (i.e. based on forrest). I mean u have a powerful
> xslt framework to setup very flexible (technical,structure) theming. The
> theme constructor(or contributors) than can also provide various css
> themes to finally present the page in the browser, where the user can
> switch the css themes.
Hmmm, this is a very broad definition of skin. Generally, I think
of skin as referring only to presentation. Document structure and
functionality would be outside the scope of a skin. Nothing wrong
with either definition.
But then, how does the forrest structure/functionality align with
what is provided by cocoon/lenya? There seems to be an overlap
between the two.
--
JP
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 00:12, Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
>
> > just some random thoughts about skinning lenya.
> >
> > Why we do not use a forrest skin (maybe the one of our website)
> > for our default pub?
> >
> > The idea would be to aplly forrest skin packages for theming lenya.
> > I mean that we have to add 3 files to src/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/xslt
> > and change the sitemap.
> > The user could change the skin (or theme) e.g. within Admin->skin afer
>
> Wouldn't it make more sense to skin pages using CSS instead of XSLT?
I think those css skins would be better provided by a more powerful
lenya theming engine (i.e. based on forrest). I mean u have a powerful
xslt framework to setup very flexible (technical,structure) theming. The
theme constructor(or contributors) than can also provide various css
themes to finally present the page in the browser, where the user can
switch the css themes.
--
Rolf Kulemann
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Re: [RT] Lenya-Skins
Posted by Jean Pierre LeJacq <jp...@quoininc.com>.
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
> just some random thoughts about skinning lenya.
>
> Why we do not use a forrest skin (maybe the one of our website)
> for our default pub?
>
> The idea would be to aplly forrest skin packages for theming lenya.
> I mean that we have to add 3 files to src/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/xslt
> and change the sitemap.
> The user could change the skin (or theme) e.g. within Admin->skin afer
Wouldn't it make more sense to skin pages using CSS instead of XSLT?
We then could provide several alternate skins that are then
selectable by the user from their browser.
--
JP
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