Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[Ri...@ubsw.com]

I would like my development group to start using struts for web 
development. Where can I find a list of struts advantages over the more 
traditional JSP only approach? This would help me "sell" the framework 
in my group.

I took a look at readme file in the source, but I am looking for more 
of a comparison of struts vs. jsp only.

I appreciate any information.

Thanks,
Rich


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Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[David Geary <sa...@tri-lakesonline.net>]

Eduardo Pelegri--Llopart wrote:

> re:  doEndTag() & BodyContent
>
> we are working it out in the errata.  Not yet reached closure.

In the meantime, why not modify struts tags so that they access body content in
doAfterBody() instead of doEndTag()? It seems as though it would be a pretty
simple change, and would allow those of us that use Resin to use struts with it.


david

Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[Eduardo Pelegri--Llopart <Ed...@eng.sun.com>]

re:  doEndTag() & BodyContent

we are working it out in the errata.  Not yet reached closure.


re: removes ability for graphic designers to provide layout of form in
traditional tools such as DreamWeaver...

I'll show my ignorance here, but why?  If that were true, that would be
a big CON in my book, but...

Thanks,
	- eduard/o


Richard Vowles wrote:
> 
> I have been thinking on this and I'd say that I'd break it into pros & cons
> (and hopefully Craig will comment <grin>)
> 
> Pros
> - More strongly encourages the sep. of business logic from presentation
> logic.
> - Allows for the support of multiple languages through the use of the
> resource mechanism
> - Views (JSPs) are considerably cleaner
> - Whole application is easier to maintain
> 
> Cons
> - Removes ability for graphic designers to provide layout of form in
> traditional tools such as DreamWeaver
> - Forces graphic designers and developers to work more closely
> 
> A big con for me is that it doesn't work with Resin (IMHO, the best JSP
> engine out there) - Scott disagrees with the idea that bodyContent should be
> available in doEndTag - the spec apparently implies that it should be only
> available until before the beginning of doEndTag (i.e. the last
> doAfterBody). Since Struts uses the idea that the bodyContent is available
> in doEndTag.... He has asked Sun for a ruling.
> 
> I'm encouraging people to do the doAfterBody thing.
> 
> I'd like to add two things to Struts:
> (1) an option to output in well formed XML instead of HTML (so I can use
> XSL-T to convert) and
> (2) greater options on the fields - an indication as to what data type it is
> for example, and maybe constaints so that the Form bean can be derived from
> the page and used as a base class.
> 
> Time being the only problem <sigh>
> 
> Richard
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Ri...@ubsw.com>
> To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 2:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach
> 
> > I would like my development group to start using struts for web
> > development. Where can I find a list of struts advantages over the more
> > traditional JSP only approach? This would help me "sell" the framework
> > in my group.
> >
> > I took a look at readme file in the source, but I am looking for more
> > of a comparison of struts vs. jsp only.
> >
> > I appreciate any information.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> > for the individual named.  If you are not the named addressee you
> > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  Please
> > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
> > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
> >
> > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
> > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore
> > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents
> > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  If
> > verification is required please request a hard-copy version.  This
> > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be
> > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
> > related financial instruments.
> >

Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[Pasi Salminen <pa...@profithome.com>]

Somebody has probably said this already, but I'm saying it again:

Struts consists of several pieces and Struts taglib is only one piece of the
framework. So, even without using Struts taglib it gives you a lot! You get the
basic programming model for free and if the taglib annoyes you (or the HTML
editor), don't use it. Use normal JSPs (or sometimes even plain HTML is enough)
instead. You still have Model 2 programming model, but you have more duties
(like digging beans from the session)! I'm not encouraging anybody to do this,
but I wanted emphasize that using taglib is only an option.

Greetings,

Paci

Richard Vowles wrote:

> I have been thinking on this and I'd say that I'd break it into pros & cons
> (and hopefully Craig will comment <grin>)
>
> Pros
> - More strongly encourages the sep. of business logic from presentation
> logic.
> - Allows for the support of multiple languages through the use of the
> resource mechanism
> - Views (JSPs) are considerably cleaner
> - Whole application is easier to maintain
>
> Cons
> - Removes ability for graphic designers to provide layout of form in
> traditional tools such as DreamWeaver
> - Forces graphic designers and developers to work more closely
>
> A big con for me is that it doesn't work with Resin (IMHO, the best JSP
> engine out there) - Scott disagrees with the idea that bodyContent should be
> available in doEndTag - the spec apparently implies that it should be only
> available until before the beginning of doEndTag (i.e. the last
> doAfterBody). Since Struts uses the idea that the bodyContent is available
> in doEndTag.... He has asked Sun for a ruling.
>
> I'm encouraging people to do the doAfterBody thing.
>
> I'd like to add two things to Struts:
> (1) an option to output in well formed XML instead of HTML (so I can use
> XSL-T to convert) and
> (2) greater options on the fields - an indication as to what data type it is
> for example, and maybe constaints so that the Form bean can be derived from
> the page and used as a base class.
>
> Time being the only problem <sigh>
>
> Richard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Ri...@ubsw.com>
> To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 2:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach
>
> > I would like my development group to start using struts for web
> > development. Where can I find a list of struts advantages over the more
> > traditional JSP only approach? This would help me "sell" the framework
> > in my group.
> >
> > I took a look at readme file in the source, but I am looking for more
> > of a comparison of struts vs. jsp only.
> >
> > I appreciate any information.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> > for the individual named.  If you are not the named addressee you
> > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  Please
> > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
> > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
> >
> > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
> > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore
> > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents
> > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  If
> > verification is required please request a hard-copy version.  This
> > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be
> > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
> > related financial instruments.
> >

Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[Richard Vowles <rv...@sew.co.nz>]

I have been thinking on this and I'd say that I'd break it into pros & cons
(and hopefully Craig will comment <grin>)

Pros
- More strongly encourages the sep. of business logic from presentation
logic.
- Allows for the support of multiple languages through the use of the
resource mechanism
- Views (JSPs) are considerably cleaner
- Whole application is easier to maintain

Cons
- Removes ability for graphic designers to provide layout of form in
traditional tools such as DreamWeaver
- Forces graphic designers and developers to work more closely

A big con for me is that it doesn't work with Resin (IMHO, the best JSP
engine out there) - Scott disagrees with the idea that bodyContent should be
available in doEndTag - the spec apparently implies that it should be only
available until before the beginning of doEndTag (i.e. the last
doAfterBody). Since Struts uses the idea that the bodyContent is available
in doEndTag.... He has asked Sun for a ruling.

I'm encouraging people to do the doAfterBody thing.

I'd like to add two things to Struts:
(1) an option to output in well formed XML instead of HTML (so I can use
XSL-T to convert) and
(2) greater options on the fields - an indication as to what data type it is
for example, and maybe constaints so that the Form bean can be derived from
the page and used as a base class.

Time being the only problem <sigh>

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: <Ri...@ubsw.com>
To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach


> I would like my development group to start using struts for web
> development. Where can I find a list of struts advantages over the more
> traditional JSP only approach? This would help me "sell" the framework
> in my group.
>
> I took a look at readme file in the source, but I am looking for more
> of a comparison of struts vs. jsp only.
>
> I appreciate any information.
>
> Thanks,
> Rich
>
>
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> for the individual named.  If you are not the named addressee you
> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  Please
> notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
> e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
>
> E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
> as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore
> does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents
> of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  If
> verification is required please request a hard-copy version.  This
> message is provided for informational purposes and should not be
> construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
> related financial instruments.
>