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Posted to dev@clerezza.apache.org by Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> on 2012/09/06 11:43:32 UTC
[VOTE] change skos namespace in use
As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace change I
ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My proposed
resolution can be seen here:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
See
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Efor
the discussion thread.
The vote will be open for at least 72h
Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
Re: [VOTE] change skos namespace in use
Posted by Tsuy Ito <ts...@trialox.org>.
Hi Rupert
Thank you for your constructive proposal. IMO your suggestion is the procedure for all "public" API changes in clerezza. We should also take care which version number to use for future releases as described in e.g. http://sling.apache.org/site/version-policy.html#VersionPolicy-VersionNumberSyntax.
cheers
Tsuy
On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Rupert Westenthaler <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> HI
>
> -1 for an immediate change
>
> I would suggest something like
>
> * add SKOS04
> * add SKOS08 (mainly for documentation purpose
> * pint the current SKOS to SKOS08
> * deprecate both SKOS and SKOS08
>
> after the next release I suggest
>
> * remove SKOS
> * keep the deprecated SKOS08
>
> after the next (current +2) release
>
> * add SKOS (using the 2004 namespace)
> * deprecate SKOS04 (as users should use SKOS instead)
> * keep the deprecated SKOS08 (mainly for documentation purpose)
>
> this allows to migrate to the correct SKOS namespace in a reasonable
> timeframe without the danger of breaking user applications (unless the
> skip an whole version)
>
> best
> Rupert
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Hasan <ha...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> after studying the arguments provided by Reto and Tsuy, I must admit that
>> for the sake of
>> compliance to standards, we should change the SKOS namespace back to the
>> one accepted
>> by W3C.
>>
>> However, I wonder if there is a mechanism to support existing users who
>> want to upgrade their
>> clerezza instance wihtout having to change their codes (means changing the
>> import statements
>> and all occurances of SKOS to SKOS08 in java program codes).
>> Note that the change to SKOS class breaks existing codes (a software cannot
>> fulfil its functionality).
>> Since Clerezza is not intended to be used exclusively, but as a base for
>> developing other functionality
>> by our community members, we should take care that community members who
>> are currently using
>> Clerezza, will not be affected (if possible) if they would merely upgrade
>> their Clerezza platform.
>>
>> I don't know whether using packageinfo (for versioning) can avoid or at
>> least mitigate this problem.
>> I am thinking of simply specifying the package version of rdf.ontologies to
>> be imported by community members' projects.
>> I'd suggest to investigate this and other possibilities before making
>> changes to SKOS namespace.
>>
>> Thus -1 for the time being
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Hasan
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Tsuy Ito <ts...@trialox.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What happens if in future another version will be defined as namespace of
>>>> SKOS? You will update it again and all users have to change their code,
>>>> again? not very user-friendly.
>>>>
>>> Your argument about user friendlyness seems a bit starnge. How can it be
>>> user friendly is in clerezza "SKOS" refers to a namespace that was only
>>> temporarily proposed and never accepted and not to the namespace that is
>>> and has been the standard across different all the different released
>>> versions of the spec.
>>>
>>> The W3C has decided not to change the namespace, its only Clerezza that
>>> adopted a proposed namespace change that was never accepted. So the SKOS
>>> namespace is the old http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# one and users
>>> rightfully expect the clerezza constants to refer to this.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Especially because user who uses snapshot versions will not notice the
>>>> change (build will not break) but this change will have a big impact on
>>> the
>>>> existing data. So they have to update their database or update their
>>> source
>>>> code.
>>>>
>>> Well, in a productive context a user should only change to a SNAPSHOT
>>> version id this brings significant needed improvements. Here the only
>>> improvemnet is exactly the resolution of CLEREZZA-717 is it asking to much
>>> that somebody depending on the current bug either not to update or change
>>> its code to use the SKOS08 class?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Reto
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is no technical reason for my -1 but I suggest do it the other way
>>>> arround to be more user-friendly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -1
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>> tsuy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> After checking the spec again I can confirm what Rupert wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> The august 28 2008 version used the
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/skos#namespace [1] but the final version of
>>>>> the spec of August 28 2009 defines
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# to be the namespace [2].
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore I vote
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Reto
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080829/#L1302
>>>>> 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#vocab
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace
>>>> change
>>>>>> I ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My
>>>> proposed
>>>>>> resolution can be seen here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Eforthediscussion thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The vote will be open for at least 72h
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --trialox ag-------------------------------------
>>>> tsuyoshi ito
>>>> hardturmstrasse 101
>>>> 8005 zuerich
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> | Rupert Westenthaler rupert.westenthaler@gmail.com
> | Bodenlehenstraße 11 ++43-699-11108907
> | A-5500 Bischofshofen
--trialox ag-------------------------------------
tsuyoshi ito
hardturmstrasse 101
8005 zuerich
Re: [VOTE] change skos namespace in use
Posted by Rupert Westenthaler <ru...@gmail.com>.
HI
-1 for an immediate change
I would suggest something like
* add SKOS04
* add SKOS08 (mainly for documentation purpose
* pint the current SKOS to SKOS08
* deprecate both SKOS and SKOS08
after the next release I suggest
* remove SKOS
* keep the deprecated SKOS08
after the next (current +2) release
* add SKOS (using the 2004 namespace)
* deprecate SKOS04 (as users should use SKOS instead)
* keep the deprecated SKOS08 (mainly for documentation purpose)
this allows to migrate to the correct SKOS namespace in a reasonable
timeframe without the danger of breaking user applications (unless the
skip an whole version)
best
Rupert
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Hasan <ha...@apache.org> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> after studying the arguments provided by Reto and Tsuy, I must admit that
> for the sake of
> compliance to standards, we should change the SKOS namespace back to the
> one accepted
> by W3C.
>
> However, I wonder if there is a mechanism to support existing users who
> want to upgrade their
> clerezza instance wihtout having to change their codes (means changing the
> import statements
> and all occurances of SKOS to SKOS08 in java program codes).
> Note that the change to SKOS class breaks existing codes (a software cannot
> fulfil its functionality).
> Since Clerezza is not intended to be used exclusively, but as a base for
> developing other functionality
> by our community members, we should take care that community members who
> are currently using
> Clerezza, will not be affected (if possible) if they would merely upgrade
> their Clerezza platform.
>
> I don't know whether using packageinfo (for versioning) can avoid or at
> least mitigate this problem.
> I am thinking of simply specifying the package version of rdf.ontologies to
> be imported by community members' projects.
> I'd suggest to investigate this and other possibilities before making
> changes to SKOS namespace.
>
> Thus -1 for the time being
>
> Kind regards
> Hasan
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Tsuy Ito <ts...@trialox.org> wrote:
>>
>> > What happens if in future another version will be defined as namespace of
>> > SKOS? You will update it again and all users have to change their code,
>> > again? not very user-friendly.
>> >
>> Your argument about user friendlyness seems a bit starnge. How can it be
>> user friendly is in clerezza "SKOS" refers to a namespace that was only
>> temporarily proposed and never accepted and not to the namespace that is
>> and has been the standard across different all the different released
>> versions of the spec.
>>
>> The W3C has decided not to change the namespace, its only Clerezza that
>> adopted a proposed namespace change that was never accepted. So the SKOS
>> namespace is the old http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# one and users
>> rightfully expect the clerezza constants to refer to this.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Especially because user who uses snapshot versions will not notice the
>> > change (build will not break) but this change will have a big impact on
>> the
>> > existing data. So they have to update their database or update their
>> source
>> > code.
>> >
>> Well, in a productive context a user should only change to a SNAPSHOT
>> version id this brings significant needed improvements. Here the only
>> improvemnet is exactly the resolution of CLEREZZA-717 is it asking to much
>> that somebody depending on the current bug either not to update or change
>> its code to use the SKOS08 class?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Reto
>>
>>
>> >
>> > There is no technical reason for my -1 but I suggest do it the other way
>> > arround to be more user-friendly.
>> >
>> >
>> > -1
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > tsuy
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > After checking the spec again I can confirm what Rupert wrote
>> > >
>> > > The august 28 2008 version used the
>> > > http://www.w3.org/2008/05/skos#namespace [1] but the final version of
>> > > the spec of August 28 2009 defines
>> > > http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# to be the namespace [2].
>> > >
>> > > Therefore I vote
>> > >
>> > > +1
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Reto
>> > >
>> > > 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080829/#L1302
>> > > 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#vocab
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace
>> > change
>> > >> I ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My
>> > proposed
>> > >> resolution can be seen here:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
>> > >>
>> > >> See
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Eforthediscussion thread.
>> > >>
>> > >> The vote will be open for at least 72h
>> > >>
>> > >> Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> > --trialox ag-------------------------------------
>> > tsuyoshi ito
>> > hardturmstrasse 101
>> > 8005 zuerich
>> >
>> >
>>
--
| Rupert Westenthaler rupert.westenthaler@gmail.com
| Bodenlehenstraße 11 ++43-699-11108907
| A-5500 Bischofshofen
Re: [VOTE] change skos namespace in use
Posted by Hasan <ha...@apache.org>.
Dear All,
after studying the arguments provided by Reto and Tsuy, I must admit that
for the sake of
compliance to standards, we should change the SKOS namespace back to the
one accepted
by W3C.
However, I wonder if there is a mechanism to support existing users who
want to upgrade their
clerezza instance wihtout having to change their codes (means changing the
import statements
and all occurances of SKOS to SKOS08 in java program codes).
Note that the change to SKOS class breaks existing codes (a software cannot
fulfil its functionality).
Since Clerezza is not intended to be used exclusively, but as a base for
developing other functionality
by our community members, we should take care that community members who
are currently using
Clerezza, will not be affected (if possible) if they would merely upgrade
their Clerezza platform.
I don't know whether using packageinfo (for versioning) can avoid or at
least mitigate this problem.
I am thinking of simply specifying the package version of rdf.ontologies to
be imported by community members' projects.
I'd suggest to investigate this and other possibilities before making
changes to SKOS namespace.
Thus -1 for the time being
Kind regards
Hasan
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Tsuy Ito <ts...@trialox.org> wrote:
>
> > What happens if in future another version will be defined as namespace of
> > SKOS? You will update it again and all users have to change their code,
> > again? not very user-friendly.
> >
> Your argument about user friendlyness seems a bit starnge. How can it be
> user friendly is in clerezza "SKOS" refers to a namespace that was only
> temporarily proposed and never accepted and not to the namespace that is
> and has been the standard across different all the different released
> versions of the spec.
>
> The W3C has decided not to change the namespace, its only Clerezza that
> adopted a proposed namespace change that was never accepted. So the SKOS
> namespace is the old http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# one and users
> rightfully expect the clerezza constants to refer to this.
>
>
> >
> > Especially because user who uses snapshot versions will not notice the
> > change (build will not break) but this change will have a big impact on
> the
> > existing data. So they have to update their database or update their
> source
> > code.
> >
> Well, in a productive context a user should only change to a SNAPSHOT
> version id this brings significant needed improvements. Here the only
> improvemnet is exactly the resolution of CLEREZZA-717 is it asking to much
> that somebody depending on the current bug either not to update or change
> its code to use the SKOS08 class?
>
> Cheers,
> Reto
>
>
> >
> > There is no technical reason for my -1 but I suggest do it the other way
> > arround to be more user-friendly.
> >
> >
> > -1
> >
> > cheers
> > tsuy
> >
> >
> > On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > After checking the spec again I can confirm what Rupert wrote
> > >
> > > The august 28 2008 version used the
> > > http://www.w3.org/2008/05/skos#namespace [1] but the final version of
> > > the spec of August 28 2009 defines
> > > http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# to be the namespace [2].
> > >
> > > Therefore I vote
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Reto
> > >
> > > 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080829/#L1302
> > > 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#vocab
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace
> > change
> > >> I ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My
> > proposed
> > >> resolution can be seen here:
> > >>
> > >>
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
> > >>
> > >> See
> > >>
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Eforthediscussion thread.
> > >>
> > >> The vote will be open for at least 72h
> > >>
> > >> Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --trialox ag-------------------------------------
> > tsuyoshi ito
> > hardturmstrasse 101
> > 8005 zuerich
> >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] change skos namespace in use
Posted by Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Tsuy Ito <ts...@trialox.org> wrote:
> What happens if in future another version will be defined as namespace of
> SKOS? You will update it again and all users have to change their code,
> again? not very user-friendly.
>
Your argument about user friendlyness seems a bit starnge. How can it be
user friendly is in clerezza "SKOS" refers to a namespace that was only
temporarily proposed and never accepted and not to the namespace that is
and has been the standard across different all the different released
versions of the spec.
The W3C has decided not to change the namespace, its only Clerezza that
adopted a proposed namespace change that was never accepted. So the SKOS
namespace is the old http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# one and users
rightfully expect the clerezza constants to refer to this.
>
> Especially because user who uses snapshot versions will not notice the
> change (build will not break) but this change will have a big impact on the
> existing data. So they have to update their database or update their source
> code.
>
Well, in a productive context a user should only change to a SNAPSHOT
version id this brings significant needed improvements. Here the only
improvemnet is exactly the resolution of CLEREZZA-717 is it asking to much
that somebody depending on the current bug either not to update or change
its code to use the SKOS08 class?
Cheers,
Reto
>
> There is no technical reason for my -1 but I suggest do it the other way
> arround to be more user-friendly.
>
>
> -1
>
> cheers
> tsuy
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > After checking the spec again I can confirm what Rupert wrote
> >
> > The august 28 2008 version used the
> > http://www.w3.org/2008/05/skos#namespace [1] but the final version of
> > the spec of August 28 2009 defines
> > http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# to be the namespace [2].
> >
> > Therefore I vote
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Reto
> >
> > 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080829/#L1302
> > 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#vocab
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace
> change
> >> I ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My
> proposed
> >> resolution can be seen here:
> >>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
> >>
> >> See
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Eforthe discussion thread.
> >>
> >> The vote will be open for at least 72h
> >>
> >> Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> --trialox ag-------------------------------------
> tsuyoshi ito
> hardturmstrasse 101
> 8005 zuerich
>
>
Re: [VOTE] change skos namespace in use
Posted by Tsuy Ito <ts...@trialox.org>.
IMO it is easier for compatiblity reasons to add namespace SKOS04 and leave SKOS as it is.
I also suggest to add SKOS08 as namespace and set SKOS as deprecated.
What happens if in future another version will be defined as namespace of SKOS? You will update it again and all users have to change their code, again? not very user-friendly.
Especially because user who uses snapshot versions will not notice the change (build will not break) but this change will have a big impact on the existing data. So they have to update their database or update their source code.
There is no technical reason for my -1 but I suggest do it the other way arround to be more user-friendly.
-1
cheers
tsuy
On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
> After checking the spec again I can confirm what Rupert wrote
>
> The august 28 2008 version used the
> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/skos#namespace [1] but the final version of
> the spec of August 28 2009 defines
> http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# to be the namespace [2].
>
> Therefore I vote
>
> +1
>
> Cheers,
> Reto
>
> 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080829/#L1302
> 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#vocab
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace change
>> I ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My proposed
>> resolution can be seen here:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
>>
>> See
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Efor the discussion thread.
>>
>> The vote will be open for at least 72h
>>
>> Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
>>
>>
>>
--trialox ag-------------------------------------
tsuyoshi ito
hardturmstrasse 101
8005 zuerich
Re: [VOTE] change skos namespace in use
Posted by Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>.
After checking the spec again I can confirm what Rupert wrote
The august 28 2008 version used the
http://www.w3.org/2008/05/skos#namespace [1] but the final version of
the spec of August 28 2009 defines
http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core# to be the namespace [2].
Therefore I vote
+1
Cheers,
Reto
1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080829/#L1302
2. http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#vocab
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
> As there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the discussed namespace change
> I ask for a vote on the resolution I propose for CLEREZZA-717. My proposed
> resolution can be seen here:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/issues/CLEREZZA-717/
>
> See
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201209.mbox/%3CCALvhUEVO5vu1+pqr_MJWSTTwwCEvRxEq-1y7aPq0yUGgB9xAmg@mail.gmail.com%3Efor the discussion thread.
>
> The vote will be open for at least 72h
>
> Please note that vetoes (-1) need a technical reason to be valid.
>
>
>