Re: [DISCUSSION] Rename master branch to main

[Albert <zi...@gmail.com>]

I am against this change -1. (probably vain anyways)
 @Michael Mior <mi...@gmail.com>  yes there are people against it.

nobody expressed any gain from this.
nobody required this change.
This change expressed a thinking in `incorrect` direction. (personal
opinion)

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:31 PM Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote:

> I don't want to get too into the weeds here since there hasn't been
> any strong opposition and it seems like this is a change everyone
> (some perhaps reluctantly) are ok with moving forward with. But a
> couple comments:
>
> Has anyone expressed concern? No, but given that main is explicitly
> neutral, I'd rather not place the burden on people who may find
> terminology offensive to raise the issue.
> Do I think about slavery whenever I merge into master? No, but my
> ancestors were also not owned as slaves.
>
> I've opened CALCITE-4147 to track what needs to be done for this.
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CALCITE-4147
>
> --
> Michael Mior
> mmior@apache.org
>
>
> Le mer. 29 juil. 2020 à 05:55, Ruben Q L <ru...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would not oppose the renaming, but I must say that I agree with Danny
> > Chan here. Is this really an issue? Is there any official guideline from
> > the ASF about this topic? Has anyone in the Calcite community truly
> > expressed any concern about the master branch being called "master"? Do
> you
> > really think of slavery whenever you "merge into master", or whenever you
> > use the term "master" in this context?
> >
> > I could understand renaming a "master-slave" architecture into something
> > different, since that is clearly a slavery-related terminology. But, as
> > other people have already said, not every usage of the word "master" has
> > this connotation. Honestly I see no problem in having a "master branch"
> > because, in my opinion, it is clear that when we talk about it we mean
> the
> > "reference branch", "principal branch" or (quoting the Merriam-Webster
> > dictionary) the "original from which copies can be made".
> >
> > Maybe I am wrong here, but I have the impression that we are fixing an
> > artificial problem that does not actually exist. If tomorrow someone on
> > Twitter says that the term "class" is offensive because it has some
> marxist
> > connotations, should we rewrite all our Java code? This is an extreme,
> > stupid example (I hope, although nowadays you never know), but I think
> you
> > know where I am going with my logic...
> >
> > We need to fight racism but IMHO this is not how to do it.
> >
> > Best,
> > Ruben
> >
> >
> > Le mer. 29 juil. 2020 à 06:54, Francis Chuang <fr...@apache.org>
> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > I am also +1 for this change.
> > >
> > > - It's a simple change that doesn't require a lot of effort and
> > > disruption to the code base.
> > > - If we follow the links from the article Michael posted, the term
> > > "master" in git does not originate from "master record" but rather from
> > > master/slave.
> > > - We make our community more welcoming, diverse and inclusive by
> > > switching to a term that is more inclusive.
> > > - Sometimes a new word can be more self-explanatory. Recently
> > > "blacklist" and "whitelist" was replaced in the Go source code with
> > > "allowlist" and "blocklist" [1] as a case in point.
> > >
> > > Francis
> > >
> > > [1] https://go-review.googlesource.com/c/go/+/236857/
> > >
> > > On 29/07/2020 12:30 pm, Matt Burgess wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a Calcite user and longtime mailing list lurker :) I'd like to
> > > > share our experience from Apache NiFi, we started such a discussion
> > > > for NiFi based on existing discussions from Apache Yetus and Apache
> > > > Accumulo [1]. Our own discussion continued (please see the linked
> > > > email thread) but I believe our community came to a similar consensus
> > > > as the Calcite community (and others), that whatever notions were
> > > > educed from the terms, it is more welcoming and purposeful to change
> > > > them for the best community experience. The impact to the codebase
> was
> > > > minimal and non-breaking, so we came together to perform the few
> steps
> > > > we needed to rename the default branch and search the code for terms
> > > > we could simply find-and-replace, plus we updated the Developer
> Guide.
> > > > Since then, we haven't seen much in the way of confusion or missteps
> > > > in our development process. Everyone seems to have taken the changes
> > > > in stride, updated what they needed to, and continued with their
> > > > contributions, all the while providing a better atmosphere for even
> > > > better things to come.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/nifi-dev/202006.mbox/%3cCA+LyY55Mb8xZ35W_9UM=tEr+Gt_1AZHGxmbPDN9EdbsSnv-WcA@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:55 PM Danny Chan <yu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> As a Chinsese, I didn’t understand quite well why the word “master”
> can
> > > be “slavery”. I often see it as the similiar meaning as “main”, it
> seems to
> > > take some time to adapt to new term “main” because I believe most of
> the
> > > developers got used to the word “master”.
> > > >>
> > > >>> I think this is a relatively low impact change that can potentially
> > > >>> make us even more welcoming to new contributors, which is a
> benefit to
> > > >>> us all :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Is this true ? People would always contribute to Calcite if they
> need
> > > to, apparently not just because of a branch name.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >> Danny Chan
> > > >> 在 2020年7月29日 +0800 AM7:08，Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org>，写道：
> > > >>> Actually, the argument that the term "master" in git didn't
> originate
> > > >>> from master/slave is not true. See the article I linked earlier. In
> > > >>> any case, I don't think the change hurts anyone other than a brief
> > > >>> annoyance when we all have to change our branch name and if it
> makes
> > > >>> the project more welcoming to someone, than great.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Michael Mior
> > > >>> mmior@apache.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Le mar. 28 juil. 2020 à 17:29, Julian Hyde <jh...@gmail.com>
> a
> > > écrit :
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I agree with you. It’s probably derived from “master” as in the
> “gold
> > > master” [1] which is the mix from which a sound engineer would cut a
> record
> > > or CD. And who knows where that term came from?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> But in the end, the origin of the term is irrelevant. The current
> > > name is, or may be, unwelcoming to some people, so let’s just move on.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Julian
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) <
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Viliam Durina <viliam@hazelcast.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> It's not a term related to slavery, it has much broader meaning
> than
> > > "slave
> > > >>>>> owner", but any argument is probably vain.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 19:43, Julian Hyde <
> jhyde.apache@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I am in favor of renaming ‘master’ to ‘main’. To most people it
> > > doesn’t
> > > >>>>>> make any difference. To some, such as potential members
> currently
> > > outside
> > > >>>>>> the community, it makes the project more welcoming.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Very little effort or disruption is required. We’ve identified a
> > > potential
> > > >>>>>> source of friction, so let’s fix it and move on.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Julian
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> You can find some background on this discussion at the link
> below
> > > [0].
> > > >>>>>>> This is a topic that has come up regularly among D&I folks at
> the
> > > ASF.
> > > >>>>>>> The short summary is that the term "master" when referring to
> a git
> > > >>>>>>> branch is a reference to terminology related to slavery. I'm
> > > >>>>>>> suggesting main because this seems to be what the developer
> > > community
> > > >>>>>>> as a whole is gravitating towards. See for example, GitHub's
> public
> > > >>>>>>> roadmap [1] where there are plans to make this change.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I'm hoping that this discussion can be focused not on whether
> > > anyone
> > > >>>>>>> has been impacted by such terminology, but how we can move
> > > forward. I
> > > >>>>>>> personally believe that if a single person feels more welcome
> to
> > > >>>>>>> contribute because of the change, it's a win. I also don't
> think
> > > >>>>>>> making this change needs to be painful. (There are less than 20
> > > >>>>>>> relevant references to "master" in the Calcite code.) Apache
> Mahout
> > > >>>>>>> and I believe others have already made this change.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I think this is a relatively low impact change that can
> potentially
> > > >>>>>>> make us even more welcoming to new contributors, which is a
> > > benefit to
> > > >>>>>>> us all :)
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> [0]
> > > >>>>>>
> > >
> http://www.kapwing.com/blog/how-to-rename-your-master-branch-to-main-in-git/
> > > >>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/github/roadmap/issues/63
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>> Michael Mior
> > > >>>>>>> mmior@apache.org
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Viliam Durina
> > > >>>>> Jet Developer
> > > >>>>> hazelcast®
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <https://www.hazelcast.com> 2 W 5th Ave, Ste 300 | San Mateo, CA
> > > 94402 |
> > > >>>>> USA
> > > >>>>> +1 (650) 521-5453 | hazelcast.com <https://www.hazelcast.com>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended
> only
> > > for the
> > > >>>>> individuals named. If you are not the named addressee you should
> not
> > > >>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the
> sender
> > > >>>>> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and
> > > >>>>> delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot
> be
> > > >>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
> > > intercepted,
> > > >>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain
> > > viruses.
> > > >>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or
> > > omissions
> > > >>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of
> e-mail
> > > >>>>> transmission. If verification is required, please request a
> hard-copy
> > > >>>>> version. -Hazelcast
> > > >>>>
> > >
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
no mistakes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [DISCUSSION] Rename master branch to main

[Ruben Q L <ru...@gmail.com>]

Small question:
since it seems it will not be possible to reach an unanimous consensus on
this topic, would it be possible to open a vote in order to let the
community express if they are "for" or "against" renaming master, and
decide according to the results?

Le mar. 4 août 2020 à 13:27, Albert <zi...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> I am against this change -1. (probably vain anyways)
>  @Michael Mior <mi...@gmail.com>  yes there are people against it.
>
> nobody expressed any gain from this.
> nobody required this change.
> This change expressed a thinking in `incorrect` direction. (personal
> opinion)
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:31 PM Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I don't want to get too into the weeds here since there hasn't been
> > any strong opposition and it seems like this is a change everyone
> > (some perhaps reluctantly) are ok with moving forward with. But a
> > couple comments:
> >
> > Has anyone expressed concern? No, but given that main is explicitly
> > neutral, I'd rather not place the burden on people who may find
> > terminology offensive to raise the issue.
> > Do I think about slavery whenever I merge into master? No, but my
> > ancestors were also not owned as slaves.
> >
> > I've opened CALCITE-4147 to track what needs to be done for this.
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CALCITE-4147
> >
> > --
> > Michael Mior
> > mmior@apache.org
> >
> >
> > Le mer. 29 juil. 2020 à 05:55, Ruben Q L <ru...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I would not oppose the renaming, but I must say that I agree with Danny
> > > Chan here. Is this really an issue? Is there any official guideline
> from
> > > the ASF about this topic? Has anyone in the Calcite community truly
> > > expressed any concern about the master branch being called "master"? Do
> > you
> > > really think of slavery whenever you "merge into master", or whenever
> you
> > > use the term "master" in this context?
> > >
> > > I could understand renaming a "master-slave" architecture into
> something
> > > different, since that is clearly a slavery-related terminology. But, as
> > > other people have already said, not every usage of the word "master"
> has
> > > this connotation. Honestly I see no problem in having a "master branch"
> > > because, in my opinion, it is clear that when we talk about it we mean
> > the
> > > "reference branch", "principal branch" or (quoting the Merriam-Webster
> > > dictionary) the "original from which copies can be made".
> > >
> > > Maybe I am wrong here, but I have the impression that we are fixing an
> > > artificial problem that does not actually exist. If tomorrow someone on
> > > Twitter says that the term "class" is offensive because it has some
> > marxist
> > > connotations, should we rewrite all our Java code? This is an extreme,
> > > stupid example (I hope, although nowadays you never know), but I think
> > you
> > > know where I am going with my logic...
> > >
> > > We need to fight racism but IMHO this is not how to do it.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Ruben
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mer. 29 juil. 2020 à 06:54, Francis Chuang <
> francischuang@apache.org>
> > a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > > > I am also +1 for this change.
> > > >
> > > > - It's a simple change that doesn't require a lot of effort and
> > > > disruption to the code base.
> > > > - If we follow the links from the article Michael posted, the term
> > > > "master" in git does not originate from "master record" but rather
> from
> > > > master/slave.
> > > > - We make our community more welcoming, diverse and inclusive by
> > > > switching to a term that is more inclusive.
> > > > - Sometimes a new word can be more self-explanatory. Recently
> > > > "blacklist" and "whitelist" was replaced in the Go source code with
> > > > "allowlist" and "blocklist" [1] as a case in point.
> > > >
> > > > Francis
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://go-review.googlesource.com/c/go/+/236857/
> > > >
> > > > On 29/07/2020 12:30 pm, Matt Burgess wrote:
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a Calcite user and longtime mailing list lurker :) I'd like to
> > > > > share our experience from Apache NiFi, we started such a discussion
> > > > > for NiFi based on existing discussions from Apache Yetus and Apache
> > > > > Accumulo [1]. Our own discussion continued (please see the linked
> > > > > email thread) but I believe our community came to a similar
> consensus
> > > > > as the Calcite community (and others), that whatever notions were
> > > > > educed from the terms, it is more welcoming and purposeful to
> change
> > > > > them for the best community experience. The impact to the codebase
> > was
> > > > > minimal and non-breaking, so we came together to perform the few
> > steps
> > > > > we needed to rename the default branch and search the code for
> terms
> > > > > we could simply find-and-replace, plus we updated the Developer
> > Guide.
> > > > > Since then, we haven't seen much in the way of confusion or
> missteps
> > > > > in our development process. Everyone seems to have taken the
> changes
> > > > > in stride, updated what they needed to, and continued with their
> > > > > contributions, all the while providing a better atmosphere for even
> > > > > better things to come.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Matt
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/nifi-dev/202006.mbox/%3cCA+LyY55Mb8xZ35W_9UM=tEr+Gt_1AZHGxmbPDN9EdbsSnv-WcA@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:55 PM Danny Chan <yu...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As a Chinsese, I didn’t understand quite well why the word
> “master”
> > can
> > > > be “slavery”. I often see it as the similiar meaning as “main”, it
> > seems to
> > > > take some time to adapt to new term “main” because I believe most of
> > the
> > > > developers got used to the word “master”.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> I think this is a relatively low impact change that can
> potentially
> > > > >>> make us even more welcoming to new contributors, which is a
> > benefit to
> > > > >>> us all :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is this true ? People would always contribute to Calcite if they
> > need
> > > > to, apparently not just because of a branch name.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best,
> > > > >> Danny Chan
> > > > >> 在 2020年7月29日 +0800 AM7:08，Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org>，写道：
> > > > >>> Actually, the argument that the term "master" in git didn't
> > originate
> > > > >>> from master/slave is not true. See the article I linked earlier.
> In
> > > > >>> any case, I don't think the change hurts anyone other than a
> brief
> > > > >>> annoyance when we all have to change our branch name and if it
> > makes
> > > > >>> the project more welcoming to someone, than great.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Michael Mior
> > > > >>> mmior@apache.org
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Le mar. 28 juil. 2020 à 17:29, Julian Hyde <
> jhyde.apache@gmail.com>
> > a
> > > > écrit :
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I agree with you. It’s probably derived from “master” as in the
> > “gold
> > > > master” [1] which is the mix from which a sound engineer would cut a
> > record
> > > > or CD. And who knows where that term came from?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> But in the end, the origin of the term is irrelevant. The
> current
> > > > name is, or may be, unwelcoming to some people, so let’s just move
> on.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Julian
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) <
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Viliam Durina <
> viliam@hazelcast.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> It's not a term related to slavery, it has much broader meaning
> > than
> > > > "slave
> > > > >>>>> owner", but any argument is probably vain.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 19:43, Julian Hyde <
> > jhyde.apache@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I am in favor of renaming ‘master’ to ‘main’. To most people
> it
> > > > doesn’t
> > > > >>>>>> make any difference. To some, such as potential members
> > currently
> > > > outside
> > > > >>>>>> the community, it makes the project more welcoming.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Very little effort or disruption is required. We’ve
> identified a
> > > > potential
> > > > >>>>>> source of friction, so let’s fix it and move on.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Julian
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Michael Mior <mmior@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> You can find some background on this discussion at the link
> > below
> > > > [0].
> > > > >>>>>>> This is a topic that has come up regularly among D&I folks at
> > the
> > > > ASF.
> > > > >>>>>>> The short summary is that the term "master" when referring to
> > a git
> > > > >>>>>>> branch is a reference to terminology related to slavery. I'm
> > > > >>>>>>> suggesting main because this seems to be what the developer
> > > > community
> > > > >>>>>>> as a whole is gravitating towards. See for example, GitHub's
> > public
> > > > >>>>>>> roadmap [1] where there are plans to make this change.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I'm hoping that this discussion can be focused not on whether
> > > > anyone
> > > > >>>>>>> has been impacted by such terminology, but how we can move
> > > > forward. I
> > > > >>>>>>> personally believe that if a single person feels more welcome
> > to
> > > > >>>>>>> contribute because of the change, it's a win. I also don't
> > think
> > > > >>>>>>> making this change needs to be painful. (There are less than
> 20
> > > > >>>>>>> relevant references to "master" in the Calcite code.) Apache
> > Mahout
> > > > >>>>>>> and I believe others have already made this change.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I think this is a relatively low impact change that can
> > potentially
> > > > >>>>>>> make us even more welcoming to new contributors, which is a
> > > > benefit to
> > > > >>>>>>> us all :)
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> [0]
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > >
> >
> http://www.kapwing.com/blog/how-to-rename-your-master-branch-to-main-in-git/
> > > > >>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/github/roadmap/issues/63
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>> Michael Mior
> > > > >>>>>>> mmior@apache.org
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> Viliam Durina
> > > > >>>>> Jet Developer
> > > > >>>>> hazelcast®
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> <https://www.hazelcast.com> 2 W 5th Ave, Ste 300 | San Mateo,
> CA
> > > > 94402 |
> > > > >>>>> USA
> > > > >>>>> +1 (650) 521-5453 | hazelcast.com <https://www.hazelcast.com>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended
> > only
> > > > for the
> > > > >>>>> individuals named. If you are not the named addressee you
> should
> > not
> > > > >>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the
> > sender
> > > > >>>>> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> > mistake and
> > > > >>>>> delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot
> > be
> > > > >>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
> > > > intercepted,
> > > > >>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or
> contain
> > > > viruses.
> > > > >>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors
> or
> > > > omissions
> > > > >>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of
> > e-mail
> > > > >>>>> transmission. If verification is required, please request a
> > hard-copy
> > > > >>>>> version. -Hazelcast
> > > > >>>>
> > > >
> >
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> no mistakes
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>