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Posted to server-dev@james.apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2003/01/15 20:57:08 UTC
Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
Is anyone interested in championing Jabber support for James?
ref:
www.jabber.org
Home page
http://www.jabber.org/about/techover.html
Technical overview, discussing similarity
between Jabber and SMTP/POP e-mail.
In many ways, Jabber support would be a very nice fit with James.
--- Noel
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RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Danny,
I'm glad that you agree with the idea of adding Jabber to James. :-) I've
taken the liberty of incorporating your ideas onto the JamesJabber page.
Great minds apparently think alike. I contacted the author of JavaJabber
earlier today. He has thus far expressed interest in coming over and
joining with us to work on it. My latest e-mail to him asks permission to
move the discussion over to james-dev.
I don't know about Jabber being another SAR. I'd like it to develop as a
peer with the other services within James v3, using our connection manager,
user respository, spooling mechanism, etc., and I don't know if multiple
SARs can federate that way.
--- Noel
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RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Noel,
I wasn't familiar with jabber 'till you brought it up, but having looked at it today, and at Avalon based javajabber I think its a good idea.
I think the client-server-client (cf p2p) model is a good one whereby James can add-value with combined mail/jabber account management and message processing (such as archiving or jabber<->mail)
Also there's potential for james to use jabber to provide push notification to users, perhaps watching NNTP threads, or mail notifications. I'm thinking that users could possibly set up filters (through some kind of per-user mailet pipeline ;-)?) and be notified when mail or nntp messages raise events.
I percieve a reluctance of traditional corporations to adopt p2p IM, perhaps because p2p is too amorphous and uncontrollable, after all even telephones are client-server-client, so with a c-s-c IM system organisations can monitor traffic metrics and message content in familiar ways, and perhaps feel more comfortable adopting IM.
I don't have the time to devote to it, but I like the idea, perhaps we should approach the javajabber guy?
We might have jabber as another .sar (and so optional) and use jabber's own protocol to communicate with james.
d.
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RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
Posted by Jason Webb <jw...@inovem.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Sent: 16 January 2003 19:24
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
>
>
> Jason,
>
> I know several people who have expressed interest in seeing
> James expand as a groupware product. But putting that aside
> for the moment, there are a number of functional and social
> benefits for James to support Jabber:
>
> - Instant Messaging is a killer application. Integrating it
> gets a lot more people interested in, using and supporting
> James.
Absolutely.
>
> - Jabber instant messaging makes use of a mail server oriented
> service model, so the fit is there.
>
> - James could incorporate store and forward, allowing disconnected
> Jabber traffic.
>
> - James could integrate Jabber and e-mail in several ways
> - Jabber notification of e-mail arrival
> - integrate Jabber digests onto mailing lists
This is killer for a groupware system. I assume that you mean that when
a Jabber conversation is finished it's sent out as an email.
> - integrate Jabber and e-mail address spaces for short messages
>
> Recorded at http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JamesJabber.
>
> The notion of rosters/groups/lists is something I want to fix
> with the James v3 user model.
Groups (or whatever) are the killer here. I'd really like to see that
done soon.
We have 3 tables - user, group and groupmember as the user <-> group
mapping is many-to-many. However creating those groups and all their
information is done outside of the mail system due to all the info that
can be given when creating the group. James needs a web-based interface
for management/administration for these type of activities. I'd see
these as being implemented via JMX (possibly).
>
> By the way, I see that you have some MLM code. As you know,
> one of the things that we need to do for James v3 is to put
> in place some serious MLM support. Do you have any [code,
> concepts, time] that you can contribute?
Code, some.
Time and concepts, yes.
What I'd like to see is a solid James MLM with us (iNovem) acting as a
value-add on top of it.
I have a cunning plan that involves using something like the
LinearProcessor for the rules based system that we use for checking who
can do what ;)
>
> --- Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Webb [mailto:jw@inovem.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:32
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
>
>
> I'm interested in how you'd see this happening and what
> benefits it would bring.
>
> As part of a groupware product (e.g. Exchange etc) where you
> already have the concept of groups (rosters in Jabber terms?)
> it's a really good fit. However, on a more user-centric basis
> I think it would be better to stick with a non-James
> integrated system, as James adds little, if any, value to the
> equation.
>
> However, if you want to build a James based system to compete
> with MS Exchange then lets go for it!
>
> As a first stop I'd suggest people look at
> http://www.javajabber.net/ first as it's > written in Java and
> runs in Avalon!
>
> -- Jason
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> > Sent: 15 January 2003 19:57
> > To: James-Dev Mailing List
> > Subject: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
> >
> >
> > Is anyone interested in championing Jabber support for James?
> >
> > ref:
> > www.jabber.org
> > Home page
> >
> > http://www.jabber.org/about/techover.html
> > Technical overview, discussing similarity
> > between Jabber and SMTP/POP e-mail.
> >
> > In many ways, Jabber support would be a very nice fit with James.
> >
> > --- Noel
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
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RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Jason,
I know several people who have expressed interest in seeing James expand as
a groupware product. But putting that aside for the moment, there are a
number of functional and social benefits for James to support Jabber:
- Instant Messaging is a killer application. Integrating it
gets a lot more people interested in, using and supporting
James.
- Jabber instant messaging makes use of a mail server oriented
service model, so the fit is there.
- James could incorporate store and forward, allowing disconnected
Jabber traffic.
- James could integrate Jabber and e-mail in several ways
- Jabber notification of e-mail arrival
- integrate Jabber digests onto mailing lists
- integrate Jabber and e-mail address spaces for short messages
Recorded at http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JamesJabber.
The notion of rosters/groups/lists is something I want to fix with the James
v3 user model.
By the way, I see that you have some MLM code. As you know, one of the
things that we need to do for James v3 is to put in place some serious MLM
support. Do you have any [code, concepts, time] that you can contribute?
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Webb [mailto:jw@inovem.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:32
To: James Developers List
Subject: RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
I'm interested in how you'd see this happening and what benefits it would
bring.
As part of a groupware product (e.g. Exchange etc) where you already have
the concept of groups (rosters in Jabber terms?) it's a really good fit.
However, on a more user-centric basis I think it would be better to stick
with a non-James integrated system, as James adds little, if any, value to
the equation.
However, if you want to build a James based system to compete with MS
Exchange then lets go for it!
As a first stop I'd suggest people look at http://www.javajabber.net/ first
as it's written in Java and runs in Avalon!
-- Jason
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Sent: 15 January 2003 19:57
> To: James-Dev Mailing List
> Subject: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
>
>
> Is anyone interested in championing Jabber support for James?
>
> ref:
> www.jabber.org
> Home page
>
> http://www.jabber.org/about/techover.html
> Technical overview, discussing similarity
> between Jabber and SMTP/POP e-mail.
>
> In many ways, Jabber support would be a very nice fit with James.
>
> --- Noel
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
Posted by Jason Webb <jw...@inovem.com>.
I'm interested in how you'd see this happening and what benefits it would
bring.
As part of a groupware product (e.g. Exchange etc) where you already have
the concept of groups (rosters in Jabber terms?) it's a really good fit.
However, on a more user-centric basis I think it would be better to stick
with a non-James integrated system, as James adds little, if any, value to
the equation.
However, if you want to build a James based system to compete with MS
Exchange then lets go for it!
As a first stop I'd suggest people look at http://www.javajabber.net/ first
as it's written in Java and runs in Avalon!
-- Jason
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Sent: 15 January 2003 19:57
> To: James-Dev Mailing List
> Subject: Jabber (Instant Messaging) Support
>
>
> Is anyone interested in championing Jabber support for James?
>
> ref:
> www.jabber.org
> Home page
>
> http://www.jabber.org/about/techover.html
> Technical overview, discussing similarity
> between Jabber and SMTP/POP e-mail.
>
> In many ways, Jabber support would be a very nice fit with James.
>
> --- Noel
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
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