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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> on 2007/05/09 16:03:43 UTC
[Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
As Yoav Shapira pointed out this is the right place to go ... :-)
Siegfried Goeschl
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 11:55:06 +0200
From: Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>
Reply-To: siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at
Organization: IT20one GmbH
To: members@apache.org
Hi folks,
since I'm basically an ASF newbie I would like to ask for some feedback
if you would think pnuts as suitable candidate for an incubator project.
Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
over to Apache.
Cheers,
Siegfried Goeschl
What is pnuts?
===================================================================
pnuts is a JVM based scripting language comparable to Groovy with
excellent documentation, a much too small community, absolutely no hype
and mainly written by Toyokazu Tomatsu.
A quick overview of the language can be found here
http://pnuts.org/snapshot/latest/doc/faq.html
https://pnuts.dev.java.net/files/documents/153/57430/pnuts-1.2.1-doc.zip
http://pnuts.org/articles/pnutsQuickstart.html
http://pnuts.org/articles/pnutsHighlights.html
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Pnuts/wiki/PnutsInThePress
Why I like pnuts ...
===================================================================
I have a special interest in JVM based scripting languages since the
have two very useful aspects. You can write a script using your
favourite libraries such as commons-email or Velocity and you can embedd
such a scripting language into your java application.
So over the years I worked with many JVM-based scripting languages such
as JavaScript, Bean Shell, Groovy, JACL and of course pnuts. IMO pnuts
makes a good compromise regarding scripting power, extensibility,
performance, memory consumption and user experience.
And it has an awesome documentation and mature implementation ...
What can be improved ...
===================================================================
+) pnuts is perfectly hidden within java.net
+) do some better marketing to make pnuts more visible in the public
+) expand the community and developer base
+) of course changing the licence from SPL to Apache
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>.
Hi Aaaron,
the community question is also my biggest concern and there is actually
an easy and a difficult part about it.
I don't see many committers on the pnuts core project because very few
people are able to design/implement a programming language properly.
Having said this I don't want to see many people working on the pnuts
core otherwise it will desintegrate into a feature heap. And this
conflict is a really bad one .... :-(
On the other side an extension mechanism exists called pnuts modules. In
this area I see the opportunity that many people are contributing since
those things are easy to write and extend.
Regarding "sanctioned JVM language" - can't blame me or pnuts about it -
if it happens to be the first that's fine for me.
Cheers,
Siegfried Goeschl
Having said that itt is much easier
J Aaron Farr wrote:
> Hello Siegfried!
>
> Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> writes:
>
>> since I'm basically an ASF newbie I would like to ask for some feedback
>> if you would think pnuts as suitable candidate for an incubator project.
>>
>> Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
>> over to Apache.
>
> Has the community expressed any interest already? And how much
> community is there beyond Tomatsu?
>
> While a existing, active community isn't a requirement to enter
> incubation, it is a requirement to exit. So my concern is that pnuts
> has been around for a while, yet not attracted much of a community (at
> least that's my perception and it could be wrong). Again, that alone
> isn't enough to stop a proposal, just something to consider. It's
> possible that pnuts is more suited for a place like codehaus than
> Apache.
>
> On a related note, there are a ton of JVM languages now. I wouldn't
> want to give the impression that a specific one is "sanctioned" by the
> ASF. In fact, I think it would be cool to see several JVM languages
> and related research in Apache. I mean, we have a VM now (almost).
> That could foster some really interesting "harmony." :)
>
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by J Aaron Farr <fa...@apache.org>.
Hello Siegfried!
Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> writes:
> since I'm basically an ASF newbie I would like to ask for some feedback
> if you would think pnuts as suitable candidate for an incubator project.
>
> Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
> over to Apache.
Has the community expressed any interest already? And how much
community is there beyond Tomatsu?
While a existing, active community isn't a requirement to enter
incubation, it is a requirement to exit. So my concern is that pnuts
has been around for a while, yet not attracted much of a community (at
least that's my perception and it could be wrong). Again, that alone
isn't enough to stop a proposal, just something to consider. It's
possible that pnuts is more suited for a place like codehaus than
Apache.
On a related note, there are a ton of JVM languages now. I wouldn't
want to give the impression that a specific one is "sanctioned" by the
ASF. In fact, I think it would be cool to see several JVM languages
and related research in Apache. I mean, we have a VM now (almost).
That could foster some really interesting "harmony." :)
--
J Aaron Farr jadetower.com [US] +1 724-964-4515
馮傑仁 cubiclemuses.com [HK] +852 8123-7905
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
That might be a problem to really generate interest. Apache first and
foremost generates interest amongst developers who want to contribute
the project, so I think you need to have an interesting list of things
that need contribution.
I have one tho - is anyone thinking of adding native XML support to
pnuts (aka E4X or REXML)?
Paul
On 5/11/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> IMO opinion the core language is pretty much stable - supports
> compilation to Java classes, JSR-223 (Java 6.0) runs with security
> manager and JWS, has good documentation, provides system for extension
> modules ...
>
> I see improvements for the optional pnuts modules, e.g. the optional
> modules I used where not feature complete but this is expected.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Siegfried Gooeschl
>
>
> Paul Fremantle wrote:
> > I don't know enough about the pnuts community to know if it will make
> > a good incubation project, but thanks for bringing it to my attention
> > - looks like a neat language! And if it does come here I'll certainly
> > join the discussions.
> >
> > One question I have is how much of pnuts is done and how much is still
> > to do? That's always an interesting aspect for a incubator project.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > On 5/10/07, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> >> On 5/9/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to
> >> move
> >> > over to Apache.
> >>
> >> I couldn't care less, but if there are genuine interest from Apache
> >> folks, I'll support the idea of putting it into incubation.
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Niclas
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>.
Hi Paul,
IMO opinion the core language is pretty much stable - supports
compilation to Java classes, JSR-223 (Java 6.0) runs with security
manager and JWS, has good documentation, provides system for extension
modules ...
I see improvements for the optional pnuts modules, e.g. the optional
modules I used where not feature complete but this is expected.
Cheers,
Siegfried Gooeschl
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> I don't know enough about the pnuts community to know if it will make
> a good incubation project, but thanks for bringing it to my attention
> - looks like a neat language! And if it does come here I'll certainly
> join the discussions.
>
> One question I have is how much of pnuts is done and how much is still
> to do? That's always an interesting aspect for a incubator project.
>
> Paul
>
> On 5/10/07, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>> On 5/9/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
>>
>> > Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to
>> move
>> > over to Apache.
>>
>> I couldn't care less, but if there are genuine interest from Apache
>> folks, I'll support the idea of putting it into incubation.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Niclas
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
I don't know enough about the pnuts community to know if it will make
a good incubation project, but thanks for bringing it to my attention
- looks like a neat language! And if it does come here I'll certainly
join the discussions.
One question I have is how much of pnuts is done and how much is still
to do? That's always an interesting aspect for a incubator project.
Paul
On 5/10/07, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On 5/9/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
>
> > Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
> > over to Apache.
>
> I couldn't care less, but if there are genuine interest from Apache
> folks, I'll support the idea of putting it into incubation.
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On 5/9/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
> Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
> over to Apache.
I couldn't care less, but if there are genuine interest from Apache
folks, I'll support the idea of putting it into incubation.
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>.
Hi Eelco,
thanks for encouragement ... :-)
Cheers,
Siegfried Goeschl
Eelco Hillenius wrote:
> Big +1 for me. It's a very useful scripting language that is easy to
> extend, easy to integrate with Java, easy to debug and is very fast.
> I've used it in two real-life projects so (though for simple things)
> and it always worked great for me.
>
> Eelco
>
>
> On 5/9/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
>> As Yoav Shapira pointed out this is the right place to go ... :-)
>>
>> Siegfried Goeschl
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!
>> Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 11:55:06 +0200
>> From: Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>
>> Reply-To: siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at
>> Organization: IT20one GmbH
>> To: members@apache.org
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> since I'm basically an ASF newbie I would like to ask for some feedback
>> if you would think pnuts as suitable candidate for an incubator project.
>>
>> Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
>> over to Apache.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Siegfried Goeschl
>>
>>
>> What is pnuts?
>> ===================================================================
>>
>> pnuts is a JVM based scripting language comparable to Groovy with
>> excellent documentation, a much too small community, absolutely no hype
>> and mainly written by Toyokazu Tomatsu.
>>
>> A quick overview of the language can be found here
>>
>> http://pnuts.org/snapshot/latest/doc/faq.html
>> https://pnuts.dev.java.net/files/documents/153/57430/pnuts-1.2.1-doc.zip
>> http://pnuts.org/articles/pnutsQuickstart.html
>> http://pnuts.org/articles/pnutsHighlights.html
>> https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Pnuts/wiki/PnutsInThePress
>>
>>
>> Why I like pnuts ...
>> ===================================================================
>>
>> I have a special interest in JVM based scripting languages since the
>> have two very useful aspects. You can write a script using your
>> favourite libraries such as commons-email or Velocity and you can embedd
>> such a scripting language into your java application.
>>
>> So over the years I worked with many JVM-based scripting languages such
>> as JavaScript, Bean Shell, Groovy, JACL and of course pnuts. IMO pnuts
>> makes a good compromise regarding scripting power, extensibility,
>> performance, memory consumption and user experience.
>>
>> And it has an awesome documentation and mature implementation ...
>>
>>
>> What can be improved ...
>> ===================================================================
>>
>> +) pnuts is perfectly hidden within java.net
>> +) do some better marketing to make pnuts more visible in the public
>> +) expand the community and developer base
>> +) of course changing the licence from SPL to Apache
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Fwd: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!]
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
Big +1 for me. It's a very useful scripting language that is easy to
extend, easy to integrate with Java, easy to debug and is very fast.
I've used it in two real-life projects so (though for simple things)
and it always worked great for me.
Eelco
On 5/9/07, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
> As Yoav Shapira pointed out this is the right place to go ... :-)
>
> Siegfried Goeschl
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Request for Comments - Pnuts as Incubator Project?!
> Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 11:55:06 +0200
> From: Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>
> Reply-To: siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at
> Organization: IT20one GmbH
> To: members@apache.org
>
> Hi folks,
>
> since I'm basically an ASF newbie I would like to ask for some feedback
> if you would think pnuts as suitable candidate for an incubator project.
>
> Your feedback would help me a lot convincing the pnuts community to move
> over to Apache.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Siegfried Goeschl
>
>
> What is pnuts?
> ===================================================================
>
> pnuts is a JVM based scripting language comparable to Groovy with
> excellent documentation, a much too small community, absolutely no hype
> and mainly written by Toyokazu Tomatsu.
>
> A quick overview of the language can be found here
>
> http://pnuts.org/snapshot/latest/doc/faq.html
> https://pnuts.dev.java.net/files/documents/153/57430/pnuts-1.2.1-doc.zip
> http://pnuts.org/articles/pnutsQuickstart.html
> http://pnuts.org/articles/pnutsHighlights.html
> https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Pnuts/wiki/PnutsInThePress
>
>
> Why I like pnuts ...
> ===================================================================
>
> I have a special interest in JVM based scripting languages since the
> have two very useful aspects. You can write a script using your
> favourite libraries such as commons-email or Velocity and you can embedd
> such a scripting language into your java application.
>
> So over the years I worked with many JVM-based scripting languages such
> as JavaScript, Bean Shell, Groovy, JACL and of course pnuts. IMO pnuts
> makes a good compromise regarding scripting power, extensibility,
> performance, memory consumption and user experience.
>
> And it has an awesome documentation and mature implementation ...
>
>
> What can be improved ...
> ===================================================================
>
> +) pnuts is perfectly hidden within java.net
> +) do some better marketing to make pnuts more visible in the public
> +) expand the community and developer base
> +) of course changing the licence from SPL to Apache
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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