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Posted to dev@taverna.apache.org by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> on 2017/12/01 09:53:27 UTC
Re: Podling Report Reminder - December 2017
Hi Taverna,
In Dec 2016, the report said "Preparing to graduate." In 2017, the dev@
list has been quiet. The last release was in 2016.
While the PPMC is large, not everyone has been active in incubation. I
am worried that pushing through graduation will only result in the same
situation as a TLP.
As a community, consider what is the best environment for Taverna.
Andy
On 30/11/17 01:49, johndament@apache.org wrote:
> Dear podling,
>
> This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache
> Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to
> prepare your quarterly board report.
>
> The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 20 December 2017, 10:30 am PDT.
> The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
> report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks
> before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and
> submission (Wed, December 06).
>
> Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the Incubator
> PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the
> very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board
> meeting.
>
> Thanks,
>
> The Apache Incubator PMC
>
> Submitting your Report
>
> ----------------------
>
> Your report should contain the following:
>
> * Your project name
> * A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of
> the project or necessarily of its field
> * A list of the three most important issues to address in the move
> towards graduation.
> * Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be
> aware of
> * How has the community developed since the last report
> * How has the project developed since the last report.
> * How does the podling rate their own maturity.
>
> This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at:
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/December2017
>
> Note: This is manually populated. You may need to wait a little before
> this page is created from a template.
>
> Mentors
> -------
>
> Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on
> the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are
> following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms
> for the Incubator PMC.
>
> Incubator PMC
>
Re: Podling Report Reminder - December 2017
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>.
> Work, family and life tends to steal priorities
Too true!
> [ ] Community building
> [X] Nearing graduation
[X] Community building
[ ] Nearing graduation
Take any external expectation off.
The word "retiring" sounds a bit negative and is Apache-centric. I
prefer something like "evolving". Maybe a chat-based community is what
you all prefer. There's no harm in that, either for a while or long
term; it's not what Apache does.
"retiring" (or taking sabbatical) in incubation is better than as a TLP.
As a TLP, failing to get the board reports in each quarter would be
problematic and painful. It's looks to be easier to keep on using the
name the project does not go to TLP.
Andy
On 06/12/17 11:13, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:53:27 +0000, Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi Taverna,
>>
>> In Dec 2016, the report said "Preparing to graduate." In 2017, the dev@
>> list has been quiet. The last release was in 2016.
>>
>> While the PPMC is large, not everyone has been active in incubation. I
>> am worried that pushing through graduation will only result in the same
>> situation as a TLP.
>>
>> As a community, consider what is the best environment for Taverna.
>
> I think Andy makes a fair point. We have become too slow and quiet.
>
> We've been dodging the graduation for too long - and the question
> remains - would anything be different after graduation
> (except pressure to graduate)?
>
>
> We might have to consider Retiring as an option. I know.. I know! I had
> been hoping it would not come to that, given all the great effort so far
> - yet it could be an honest outcome if we are truly no longer able to
> progress. It can happen to both podlings and graduated projects; nothing
> to worry about.
>
>
> I would however hope we can do one last try before we resort to that
> option.
>
>
> Our last update in September listed:
>
> 1. Complete the remaining IP review
> (by retiring irrelevant git repositories)
> 2. Re-engage PMC to encourage regular activity
> 3. Graduate!
>
> These are still true. However I think we need to say "Re-engage" as
> first priority to help do the other two. If we can find a working
> pattern again we are in better shape to become a top-level PMC.
>
>
> I said we would try to re-engage the PPMC, but I will be honest and
> admit that I have hardly put in any Taverna effort in this period;
> and so you have not been re-engaged.
>
> Work, family and life tends to steal priorities - perhaps more than
> before - that might be true for others too - yet that is not an excuse
> to drop silent.
>
> I think we must be better at admitting what we can and can't do.
>
>
> Release-wise I think we could easily pull off a few right away;
> taverna-mobile and taverna-server are both ready and I think actually
> good to get through the Incubator PMC.
>
> I think Ian and Sagar have been making great progress for the
> Taverna Mobile release - although it would be good with an update on
> what is blocking it at the moment.
>
> Similarly I had a quick look at Taverna Server the other day, and it's
> looking quite good and release-ready (beyond a couple of XSD files) -
> yet I have avoided finding the time to formulate this in an email -
> perhaps because it would mean commiting to future work.
>
>
>
> I suggest we move to a more frequent bullet-point emails to keep a small
> momentum going, rather than always having these long discussions that
> conclude with two months of work that nobody can commit to.
>
> You might have seen some mini-threads like this from me today - fill in
> with your own!
>
> Then we should aim to get our graduation done by spring. I suggest
> a self-imposed deadline - if by June (2018-06-01) we have not graduated,
> then we vote on retiring.
>
>
Re: Podling Report Reminder - December 2017
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:53:27 +0000, Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Taverna,
>
> In Dec 2016, the report said "Preparing to graduate." In 2017, the dev@
> list has been quiet. The last release was in 2016.
>
> While the PPMC is large, not everyone has been active in incubation. I
> am worried that pushing through graduation will only result in the same
> situation as a TLP.
>
> As a community, consider what is the best environment for Taverna.
I think Andy makes a fair point. We have become too slow and quiet.
We've been dodging the graduation for too long - and the question
remains - would anything be different after graduation
(except pressure to graduate)?
We might have to consider Retiring as an option. I know.. I know! I had
been hoping it would not come to that, given all the great effort so far
- yet it could be an honest outcome if we are truly no longer able to
progress. It can happen to both podlings and graduated projects; nothing
to worry about.
I would however hope we can do one last try before we resort to that
option.
Our last update in September listed:
1. Complete the remaining IP review
(by retiring irrelevant git repositories)
2. Re-engage PMC to encourage regular activity
3. Graduate!
These are still true. However I think we need to say "Re-engage" as
first priority to help do the other two. If we can find a working
pattern again we are in better shape to become a top-level PMC.
I said we would try to re-engage the PPMC, but I will be honest and
admit that I have hardly put in any Taverna effort in this period;
and so you have not been re-engaged.
Work, family and life tends to steal priorities - perhaps more than
before - that might be true for others too - yet that is not an excuse
to drop silent.
I think we must be better at admitting what we can and can't do.
Release-wise I think we could easily pull off a few right away;
taverna-mobile and taverna-server are both ready and I think actually
good to get through the Incubator PMC.
I think Ian and Sagar have been making great progress for the
Taverna Mobile release - although it would be good with an update on
what is blocking it at the moment.
Similarly I had a quick look at Taverna Server the other day, and it's
looking quite good and release-ready (beyond a couple of XSD files) -
yet I have avoided finding the time to formulate this in an email -
perhaps because it would mean commiting to future work.
I suggest we move to a more frequent bullet-point emails to keep a small
momentum going, rather than always having these long discussions that
conclude with two months of work that nobody can commit to.
You might have seen some mini-threads like this from me today - fill in
with your own!
Then we should aim to get our graduation done by spring. I suggest
a self-imposed deadline - if by June (2018-06-01) we have not graduated,
then we vote on retiring.
--
Stian Soiland-Reyes
http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718