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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Julian Foad <ju...@btopenworld.com> on 2003/08/02 00:16:30 UTC
Patches in mailing list archives
Trying to get a patch from an email message in one of the archives is painful. I'm talking about in-line patches in either the tigris.org or the contactor.se archives.
contactor.se: (e.g. http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svn/archive-2003-03/1841.shtml)
- White space is not properly handled (condensed in some places).
- Things that look like URLs are badly converted to hyperlinks (i.e. converted, but with trailing characters missing etc.).
- Lots of HTML markup used in the HTML source, making it hard to extract the original message from the HTML source.
tigris.org: (e.g. http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgId=233634)
- Uses "<pre>" and therefore much less HTML formatting in the HTML source, but still...
- Doesn't undo space-escaping of "format=flowed", so lines beginning with a space are indented by an extra space.
- Removes spaces from the end of lines: see the several (-<blank line>, +<blank line>) pairs.
(The "raw display" option is pretty much the same as the "standard display" in these regards.)
What is the software behind either of these archive viewers? Can we have any influence over it? It would be good to add a "download raw email message" option, and/or fix the bugs in their email-to-HTML converters.
To apply a patch from one old email message today, I used a mixture of manual HTML-to-email conversion and manual re-typing of the changes. What do the rest of you do?
- Julian
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Re: Patches in mailing list archives
Posted by Daniel Rall <dl...@finemaltcoding.com>.
Julian Foad <ju...@btopenworld.com> writes:
> Jack Repenning wrote:
> > At 1:16 AM +0100 8/2/03, Julian Foad wrote:
>
> >> What is the software behind either of these archive viewers? Can
> >> we have any influence over it? It would be good to add a "download
> >> raw email message" option, and/or fix the bugs in their
> >> email-to-HTML converters.
>
> > There are things we can do to improve tigris, at any rate. But I'm
> > not sure it's really worth doing:
>
> Well, those bugs don't only apply to patches. They ought to be
> fixed. You are not interested in fixing them but I or someone else
> might be.
You can find the source code for the mailing list archive browser at
<http://eyebrowse.tigris.org/>. Contributions of any sort (including
defect reports) are welcome, and are best reported through the
dev@eyebrowse.tigris.org and Issuezilla issue tracker.
--
Daniel Rall
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Re: Patches in mailing list archives
Posted by Julian Foad <ju...@btopenworld.com>.
Jack Repenning wrote:
> At 1:16 AM +0100 8/2/03, Julian Foad wrote:
>
>> What is the software behind either of these archive viewers? Can we
>> have any influence over it? It would be good to add a "download raw
>> email message" option, and/or fix the bugs in their email-to-HTML
>> converters.
>
> There are things we can do to improve tigris, at any rate. But I'm not
> sure it's really worth doing:
Well, those bugs don't only apply to patches. They ought to be fixed. You are not interested in fixing them but I or someone else might be.
> there are other common things that damage
> email before the message reaches the site.
Yes, there are.
> It's much preferable to put
> patches into attachments.
... except that the list policy is to prefer in-line patches (because they are easier to read for some people, depending on how their email program behaves).
- Julian
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Re: Patches in mailing list archives
Posted by Jack Repenning <jr...@collab.net>.
At 1:16 AM +0100 8/2/03, Julian Foad wrote:
>What is the software behind either of these archive viewers? Can we
>have any influence over it? It would be good to add a "download raw
>email message" option, and/or fix the bugs in their email-to-HTML
>converters.
There are things we can do to improve tigris, at any rate. But I'm
not sure it's really worth doing: there are other common things that
damage email before the message reaches the site. It's much
preferable to put patches into attachments.
--
-==-
Jack Repenning
CollabNet, Inc.
8000 Marina Boulevard, Suite 600
Brisbane, California 94005
o: 650.228.2562
c: 408.835-8090
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Re: Patches in mailing list archives
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Julian Foad <ju...@btopenworld.com> writes:
> Trying to get a patch from an email message in one of the archives
> is painful. I'm talking about in-line patches in either the
> tigris.org or the contactor.se archives.
Note that you can always click on "raw display" in tigris to display
the message such that you can save it to disk and the patch won't be
munged.
-K
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Re: Recommending attached instead of inline patches?
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Okay, so far, two people who review patches have said -0, so I'm not
going to push this suggestion. Thanks for the feedback :-).
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RE: Recommending attached instead of inline patches?
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Justin Erenkrantz [mailto:justin@erenkrantz.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:19 PM
> --On Monday, August 04, 2003 10:50:05 -0500 kfogel@collab.net wrote:
>> I'm beginning to think we should just change that policy. It's
>> slightly more convenient to review an inline patch -- but not by much.
>> And sometimes people's mailers munge them, and mail archivers don't
>> behave as well, etc. The costs may outweigh the benefit...
In this case, the benefit is almost close to nil.
> -0. I don't trust mailers to get this right, and we don't need more
> obstacles to reviewing patches that are sent in. I don't give a fig about
> archivers if it means that it's impossible to review the attachments for
> people reading the list currently.
Not to mention that there will be less review, simply because you don't
see the patch straight away.
> IIRC, at one point Sander tried attaching patches (if not here, then to
> dev@httpd), but LookOut! always munged them so that no one else could ever
> view them.
Nope, the other way around. I was having trouble sending inline patches
since you have to set your max line width globally (and it only goes to
132). Once I set that inline patches were doable.
> I think it was eventually resolved that it was impossible for
> Outlook to do this right with attachments at all. Considering how many
> people use Outlook, asking for attachments by default is going to be a mess
> that I don't want a part of. -- justin
It's going to be more hassle to view them, which is a shame. With broken
mail clients, like the one I use, viewing something with an extension other
than .patch or .txt (the latter giving trouble with unix line endings, since
it defaults to notepad), is an utter pain. You have to save the patch to
disk first, before you can open it in that case.
So, a strong -0 on going to attached patches.
Sander
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Re: Recommending attached instead of inline patches?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Monday, August 04, 2003 10:50:05 -0500 kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> I'm beginning to think we should just change that policy. It's
> slightly more convenient to review an inline patch -- but not by much.
> And sometimes people's mailers munge them, and mail archivers don't
> behave as well, etc. The costs may outweigh the benefit...
-0. I don't trust mailers to get this right, and we don't need more
obstacles to reviewing patches that are sent in. I don't give a fig about
archivers if it means that it's impossible to review the attachments for
people reading the list currently.
IIRC, at one point Sander tried attaching patches (if not here, then to
dev@httpd), but LookOut! always munged them so that no one else could ever
view them. I think it was eventually resolved that it was impossible for
Outlook to do this right with attachments at all. Considering how many
people use Outlook, asking for attachments by default is going to be a mess
that I don't want a part of. -- justin
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Re: Recommending attached instead of inline patches?
Posted by Daniel Stenberg <da...@haxx.se>.
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> I'm beginning to think we should just change that policy. It's slightly
> more convenient to review an inline patch -- but not by much. And sometimes
> people's mailers munge them, and mail archivers don't behave as well, etc.
> The costs may outweigh the benefit...
As I've already said, I am +1 on this.
Most mail programs these days should be able to view attachments, and if
anyone uses a mailer that doesn't I think it is about time to upgrade to one.
I find it a lot easier to deal with patches sent as attachments, as mailers
tend to word wrap and otherwise ruin "inline" texts but they do not tend to do
that as frequently in attachments.
--
Daniel Stenberg - http://daniel.haxx.se - +46-705-44 31 77
ech`echo xiun|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)xo un\2\1 is xg'`ol
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Recommending attached instead of inline patches?
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Daniel Stenberg <da...@haxx.se> writes:
> Personally, I think using attachments for patches is the better way. Both for
> people and for mail archivers. (Yes, I know the policy here express a
> different opinion.)
>
> If attachments were used, they would also be easier to find and
> manage in this intense mail traffic thanks to hypermail's
> "attachment index" (like this
> http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svn/archive-2003-08/attachment.shtml).
I'm beginning to think we should just change that policy. It's
slightly more convenient to review an inline patch -- but not by much.
And sometimes people's mailers munge them, and mail archivers don't
behave as well, etc. The costs may outweigh the benefit...
Most mailreaders have a way to expand the attachment. (Note to fellow
GNUS users: it's the 'K' prefix in the summary buffer, type "K C-h" to
see the possibilities. For example: "C-u 2 K i" views the MIME
attachment numbered '2' inline.)
Would anyone object to this? I'd be happy to provide GNUS support for
those who need it during the transition :-).
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Re: Patches in mailing list archives
Posted by Daniel Stenberg <da...@haxx.se>.
On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Julian Foad wrote:
> Trying to get a patch from an email message in one of the archives is
> painful. I'm talking about in-line patches in either the tigris.org or the
> contactor.se archives.
>
> contactor.se: (e.g.
> http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svn/archive-2003-03/1841.shtml)
[snip]
> What is the software behind either of these archive viewers? Can we have
> any influence over it? It would be good to add a "download raw email
> message" option, and/or fix the bugs in their email-to-HTML converters.
>
> To apply a patch from one old email message today, I used a mixture of
> manual HTML-to-email conversion and manual re-typing of the changes. What
> do the rest of you do?
This particular archive is built with Hypermail (http://www.hypermail.org/),
it is a free and open project. Feel free to provide your bright ideas.
I do not allow access to the raw email (or mbox) for a reason: spam bots.
There's nothing technically challanging for me to add links to the mboxes for
each month, should we reach a consensus that is prefered.
Personally, I think using attachments for patches is the better way. Both for
people and for mail archivers. (Yes, I know the policy here express a
different opinion.)
If attachments were used, they would also be easier to find and manage in this
intense mail traffic thanks to hypermail's "attachment index" (like this
http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svn/archive-2003-08/attachment.shtml).
--
Daniel Stenberg - http://daniel.haxx.se - +46-705-44 31 77
ech`echo xiun|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)xo un\2\1 is xg'`ol
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